Wow! My blogs usually average about a 100 fan comments, but the October 21st entry boasted 401+ posts and counting! Congratulations to everyone who's accolades, criticisms, and belligerent tirades made my last blog number one.
Well, its that time of year again when all manner of rascals and rogues take center stage to thrill and chill, dispensing tricks and trickery with bloodcurdling, spine-tingling aplomb. I'm of course referring to contract negotiation time. Speaking of which, I couldn't help but notice more than a few near-hysterical posts touching on this very subject. Who's staying? Who's going? Who's staying and going? Let's put some rumors to rest or, at the very least, attempt to allay some concerns.
1. There are currently no plans to introduce Star Jones as the new sassy, straight-shooting Chief Medical Officer. This rumor has no basis in fact.
2. There are currently no plans to introduce Dominar Rygel XVI as the new sassy, straight-shooting alien/scientist team member. Okay, this one has some basis in truth. We did, in fact, contact his representatives about the possibility of his coming aboard, but reached an impasse when Rygel insisted he be granted a bigger trailer than Ben Browder's. There were suggestions of a on-going feud between the two dating back to their Farscape days, so the negotiations were shelved. For the time being.
3. There are no plans to turn Stargate into Farscape (the aforementioned rumor notwithstanding). Yes, Ben and Claudia were on Farscape but - and here's where it gets tricky for fans who never watched Farscape - the characters they played on that show were very different from the ones they play on this show. This is particularly true of Claudia who's Aeryn Sun was, for all intents and purposes, the dissenting voice of sanity aboard Moya - a far cry from Vala Mal Doran. So, no. There are no plans to turn Stargate into Farscape.
Unless we get Rygel.
4. I'm not involved in the contract negotiations and so have no say in who is being offered what and when (If I did, I would have been asked to return for the show's 10th season by now). However, I do know that all members of the cast have made known their desire to return for a 10th season. Now, its just a matter of working out a deal that is amenable to all concerned. Hopefully, that will happen sooner than later.
5. Finally - I've always felt that Amanda has one of the toughest jobs on the show as she's the one usually relied upon to deliver reams of scientific exposition - and sound believable doing so. She does and - she does. Its a tough task, but she's done it time and again. So much so that we almost take it for granted she'll do an excellent job as we script those dense, chock full o' technobabble soliloquies. Like the characters of Daniel Jackson, Teal'c, and Mitchell, Samantha Carter brings more to the show than a mere area of specialty - so its ridiculous to suggest "we wouldn't know what to do with her character". HOWEVER, taken in the general sense, such a statement could apply to season 10 (the overall arc, the individual character storylines) because we can't really start work on season 10 until: a) our deals are in place so that we can begin spinning, b) the actors' deals are in place so that we know for certain who we are writing for. We're still in the preliminary planning stages, so before everybody gets bent out of shape regarding any proposed changes, be aware that, at this point, nothing is written in stone.
6. Oh, and - I've read the comments and concerns being circulating and, while I want to reiterate that nothing has been firmly decided re: season 10, I'm also going to come out an make a potentially heretical statement. As a fan of Samantha Carter and Amanda Tapping, I would be thrilled at the prospect of seeing her do some cross-over into Atlantis. There's no reason why she still couldn't travel off-world with the team (same old, same old), AND put in some appearances in the Pegasus galaxy as well (like she did in the upcoming Grace Under Pressure). If you stop to think for a moment - there were episodes (as evidenced by this season in which we had to service a number of new elements including the introduction of a new villain, a new team member, a new General, a new CMO, and an ongoing Jaffa storyline) in which the Carter character played a significantly smaller supporting role (and, of course, there were episodes in which she was in the thick of the action, like Horsemen I and II, Ripple Effect, and Camelot to name a few). So what if, rather than having Carter play the supporting role in a particular SG-1 episode, she were to, instead, play a more decisive role in an Atlantis story? We're not talking about minimizing Carter, but quite literally making the most of her character across two universes (and I dont' mean that literally). In fact, fans of the character would actually be getting more front-and-center Carter, not less. Again, nothing has been decided and when all is said and done this could be much ado about nothing but, personally, I think that, given the chance, it would be a shame not to make full use of the character's potential.
7) Finished the 5th season of OZ and am impatiently awaiting the 2006 release of the 6th and final season. Have moved on to season one of the Outer Limits (so far so so-so) and Futurama season 3 (fave line: The Professor on his new girlfriend - "Some say I'm robbing the cradle - but I say she's robbing the grave." Finished season one of Lost (I really hope against hope they're not just making it up as they go along) and have started season 4 of Alias (No, seriously. When's Lena Olin coming back?). I'm heading onto the final volumes of Wolf's Rain, Read or Die, and Peacemaker - and have completed Level One of Pimsleur's Cantonese (Cheng-mun siu-je!).
Well, that's it for now. As they say in Cantonese: Bye-bye!
Executive producer Joseph Mallozzi has been on the SG-1 writing
staff since Season Four. Along with writing partner Paul Mullie, Joe has
written such fan favorite episodes as "Window of Opportunity," "Summit,"
and "Lockdown." Joe lives in Vancouver, British Columbia. 
I really suspect the old Rygel/Ben relationship has come back to haunt us. That ugly breakup of theirs no doubt the real issue, and the bigger trailer thing merely a coverup. Sure, they were electric together for a while, but...
Sorry to hear that we won't be getting Rygel this season.
Joe, I think that's nice spin on the Amanda Tapping bit, but the fact that she herself brought this up to a roomful of strangers seems to indicate that she's uncomfortable with the proposition. I for one would hate to see Carter on both shows because, no matter how you spin it, you're basically chucking her to the curb for Vala. I also don't appreciate the implication that she's just dead weight on SG1's ass, and that the solution to having such useless character is to send off to a different galaxy to get her out of the way. I'm still prediciting that if you do this it will only cost SG1 viewers and it will only breed further resentment of Mitchell and Vala, who apparently are more worthy than Carter in your eyes. We know your not involved with contract negotiations, but you are involved with the creative aspects of the show and the fact that you're in favor of this bonehead move is truly ghastly. Yes, even more ghastly than The Ties That Bind. I wonder really if you can see what you're doing to this once great show. I wonder if you see what it's turning into--typical sci-fi tripe, replete with sexy space bimbos and bad jokes. You're becoming Galaxy Quest. It's sad that TPTB are stuck on "the frachise" and not on any one show or character. The pieces of SG1 and Atlantis are not interchangeable parts that can be swapped around, juggled, shunted off to the side, or painted anew each time you run out of ideas. I wish you hadn't been renewed, and I wish you'd stop running the show into the ground. Each time you come on here with your pride wounded and scoff at legitimate concerns with the classic "we know what we're about" attitude you lose credibility. All this is coming from a guy who's watched since day one, and who used to think that the show could do no wrong. All that happens now is wrong. It's been a full year since any good news came out for SG1. Everything now is just one bad, bonehead decision after another. We're all so spoiler heavy because we're all so afraid of how bad you're gonna screw up the next time. I'm afraid that this is it for me.
One Less Stargate Fan
So is that a confession that Carter has been screwed for the rest of the season?
So what if, rather than having Carter play the supporting role in a particular SG-1 episode, she were to, instead, play a more decisive role in an Atlantis story?
I'd prefer the guest role, and not a decisive role, as I'd like to see the Atlantis charcters get some more development. We're 1.5 years into Atlantis and we're still waiting to hear backstory on Sheppard and Weir, besides the rare tidbits tossed our way, so, develop what you've got. If Sam should appear on Atlantis, let it be as a guest star and please keep her on SG1 (and yes, I do like Sam, and I like on SG1).
Dear God, you come across as more and more arrogant with every blog. You're obviously aware of what's been railed against online, and you've obviously been sent out by your superiors to make some kind of statement to try and calm things down. Guess what? You failed miserably.
Every single faction of this incredibly fractured fandom has panned the idea of you guys kicking Carter off of SG-1. And, please, don't come on here and try to spin it that it would be better for the Carter character or the actress. The fact that she's worried enough about the whole situation to instigate these concerns is pretty telling in and of itself. It's pretty obvious that Amanda Tapping is unsure of this lamebrain scheme. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it's a lamebrain scheme?
You writers are having a hard enough time figuring out what to do with many of the characters on Atlantis as it is. Remember Teyla, Weir, Beckett? I don't. But then again, you don't have any episodes about them. And please, don't come on in your next blog and give me the "wait and see what we've got cooking in the second half", because I'm sure it's nothing. And so are many other Atlantis fans. Carter appearing on Atlantis means less development for an already unmanageably large cast. That's the fact of the situation.
And what's with the pathetic notion that Carter has no place in certain SG-1 episodes? That is what you're saying. That when you do certain stories, you don't want Carter there. There was once a time when every story found a place for every character. That's what made SG-1 such a success for so long. And the line that you're trying to maximize the Carter character while reducing the actress to a recurring status over two shows is a poor lie indeed. All the woman did was have a child. Since then you've done nothing but slight the character in favor of the shiny, new cast. That's really low. You think it's a shame not to make full use of the character's potential. So do the rest of us. But it's your own fault that you're not. Your the group that had to have a male lead. Your the group that seems intent on having Vala's tits on parade in every episode. Your the group that has marginalized Carter's contribution to SG-1. There is plenty for Carter to do on SG-1. It's the show that she's made a success for eight years. Likewise, Amanda Tapping has stuck with SG-1 through all the crap you've dealt with. She deserves to stay with the show that she made work. End of story. This insane plan is an insult to the cast of Atlantis and it's an insult to Amanda Tapping. The cast of Atlantis deserves to stand on its own. Amanda Tapping deserves a frontline place with the series that she's ensured continues to line your pockets.
I'm not trying to be too insulting here. Really, I'm not. But the longer you gone on, the more you deconstruct SG-1. Right now, I hope Amanda Tapping doesn't resign. You guys really don't deserve to have her. The best thing you've said in this blog entry is that nothing is written in stone. That's good. I just wish I had enough faith in you guys to abate any of the insane plans you've already put into motion. But I don't. There's apparently too much pride and petulance in you.
Finally, if this perpetually redundant blog and the subpar episodes that we've gotten in season nine are what you're going to continue to contribute, then maybe you should move on from Stargate. You seem pretty uncertain about whether you still belong with the franchise. And you seem pretty indignant when one of your innately brilliant ideas don't send fans jumping for joy. If you're going to be this angry when criticized maybe writing publicly isn't for you.
Derek Samuelson
Umm, I'm not feeling particularly angry and I don't think my blog was particularly angry either. Unlike, say, you're post.
I trust the creative staff and crew of SG1 and Atlantis to make the right decisions. I do agree with the above mention that we need more character development fo r the Atlantis team's members (of course, keeping in mind that SG1 has had nine years thus far - I can't even remember how much character development there was by midway through season two).
I'm kind of partial to having Carter (Amanda Tapping) on both shows in decisive roles. Just make it clear that because Amanda would be (in theory at this point) doing both shows, that she is still appreciated on the show that made her a star and that the creative staff still love Amanda and Sam.
As I said above, though - the cast and crew of both shows have earned my trust and respect. I know whatever you all decide to do will be the right thing to do regarding Sam Carter.
Joe - I'm glad to know you're a fan of Carter. Makes me feel more secure and all :P
I think the knee-jerk reaction was to the rumours was that some fans felt like they were going to get the short end of the stick regarding their favourite character. After reading your blog here, I feel better about the situation :) All I want is KickArse!Carter that wont come at the expense of any other characters.
Though the If I did, I would have been asked to return for the show's 10th season by now is a bit odd... You don't know for sure that you'll be on board for season 10? Could that imply fresh blood into the writing and producing departments?
Oh, and don't worry about the angry fans. Unfortunately you just happen to be the easiest target for them to take their anger out on. But hopefully people will show some commen sence when posting here (naive I know, but I can always hope! :D)
I'd like to see Derek suggest how things could be improved, given Amanda's situation when season 9 was being shot...
My, oh my there are some angry people in the realm of internet fandom.
Thankfully, whilst being a user of the internet and an avid visitor to Stargate websites (Gateworld in particular) I've managed to avoid being suckered into the "factions" that a previous commenter referred to.
Stargate SG-1 is about to become the longest running sci-fi show in US history, as far as I'm aware. Clearly you're doing something right, and that comes across on screen with each episode.
Rotating, shifting and potentially dropping cast members is simply a necessity when a show has run as long as Stargate: SG-1. I love all the characters; they've been with me since my early teens. But there's only so much that can be done with a single character in a single environment, so I'd be the last person to damn you for potentially moving someone like Carter over to Atlantis.
As for S4 of Alias, I just wanna share your feeling; when will we see Lena Olin again?! I just finished S3 and I'm about to start S4, and I'm hopeful for her return.
Just also wanted to say keep up the great work Joe. Whilst there is a vocal online minority who like to slam the producers/writers/people who fetch the coffee, there's a much larger (and mostly silent) majority who love what you're doing. I look forward to seeing how the show progresses through the 9th season and into the 10th. :-)
Ian
Dammit! Rygel isn't signing for season 10? I'm soooo pissed!
I'll admit I feel a little better about things now although I'm still a bit nervous at the idea of shuffling her back and forth. Does this mean she won't be a member of SG-1 anymore? What about CB? Just because she was offered a contract, that doesn't mean "full time" right? That could just mean recurring. She'd need a contract for that too I'd imagine.
And to the post above me, I don't think Joe's being arrogant, I think he has a sense of humor. You might try getting one yourself. ACK! Sorry. There's my sense o' humor for you there. :D On a more serious note, I also harbor some of the fears you are voicing here but I'll give it a little time to see how things pan out.
As for Amanda/Sam, she is an integral member of the show and it was really great that JM acknowledged it...and I hope that some of these concerns regarding leadership etc. are worked out logically and fairly next year.
I also hope to see her as the type of person Jack was...not sense of humor wise, but rather as the person who has a relationship with everyone and is kind of the nexus of the group. She has the depth to do it if TPTB trust her.
Regarding Vala, well I'll stick with Plan A. I'm hoping for a strong friendship dynamic developing between Carter and Vala. I think that with their commonalities (both being hosts) and differences (too many to list) they'd make a really interesting "opposites attract" friendship. It would add depth to Vala...and even to Sam and really could mean a lot of deep and funny scenes between them.
I'll feel lots better when I hear Amanda's signed back on as she is why I'm still a fan of the show.
Still want to know if we'll see Jack again ever...and would love some sort of on screen something between him and Sam to kind of validate the struggle she went through last year...but please understand I mean small acknowledgements. I know that ship is just a small part of her personna and wouldn't mind more but apparently some fans think this is all she is about. But small acknowledgements could only help her at this point.
Hoping for lots more Carter and lots more team interaction next year,
Mary Beth
In response to One Less StarGate Fan:
The fact of the matter remains, "The Powers that Be" (Hallowed be thy names) do know what they're doing. And truthfully, I love the new direction that they're taking the show in. I mean, we can only enjoy so much of infiltrating Ha-Tak vessels.
"All the woman did was have a child."
GOD, YOU MORON! As a 14 year old boy, I can't say much about this, but I'm relatively certain that what you just said easily ranks on the top-ten of "Stupidest things ever said by stupidest people." What, do you expect that the actors and actresses on StarGate must bend to your will and sacrifice their lives outside of the show just so you can be happy? It's people like you that make me sick thinking that Amanda Tappinjg should essentially give up on her newborn child, just so you can see her more on TV, that although it's entertainment, won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Shows don't matter, people do.
To Joseph Malozzi:
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Season 9 has been a blast. Like I said, it's not the best season there was (SEASON 8! SEASON 8!), but it's a close second. You've introduced the Mitchell character well, given him a unique spin as far as personality of the leader archetype, and getting the team back together really felt good. Thusfar, I've thoroughly enjoyed every Season 9 episode I watched. Keep up the great work!
Atlantis, on the other hand... It's better than it was in the first season, and "The Lost Boys" was easily the best episode so far. Yeah, it's true, some Weir, Teyla, or Beckett developing episodes would be great (and we have "The Long GoodBye" coming up, so yeah), but Atlantis is shaping up.
Oh... about "The Long Goodbye." It's a Weir themed episode, right? I vaguely remember a line from "New Order, pt.2" where Weird mentions that she doesn't like long goodbyes...
In conclusion, thank you for StarGate: SG-1, and I can't wait 'till January!
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you're saying that you haven't been asked back for S10 yet. I find that a little odd. Of course, I find quite a few of the rumors circulating about to be pretty odd. Just what was in that last batch of ice cream you made, anyway?? ;)
You're a master at spin, Joe, and I admire your effort to continue defending your fellow producers, but I don't think there IS a good spin to this particular fiasco. Giving Sam a chance to shine on Atlantis for a while means taking the spotlight away from the characters who are already on that show. I know that character usage break-downs per ep are just as mixed on Atlantis as they are on SG-1, but there are already a plethora of characters wandering through Atlantis and they don't have enough to do as it is. Bringing in YET ANOTHER character, to say nothing of it being someone as pivotal as Sam, forces the others to step aside and make room for her.
Personally, I would LOVE to see more Sam/McKay interaction. I think they have some really great sparkage and I'm immensely curious to see how Rodney would act around her now that he's been "in the field" for so long. HOWEVER... as with many other things, Sam/McKay interaction is probably best left in small doses.
I'd hate to see Atlantis collapse before it gets a chance to really take off (figuratively speaking), but from the direction (or lack thereof) of the season thus far, and given the ominous rumblings of possible future developments... Well, let's just say I'm glad I still have a few other shows to love which aren't in danger of shark attack any time soon. ;) Well, except maybe literally, on the one show.
Needless to say, I'll be keeping the popcorn close by in the coming weeks. I don't think I've ever seen a fandom implode before...
ryu gaia said:
"All the woman did was have a child."
GOD, YOU MORON! As a 14 year old boy, I can't say much about this, but I'm relatively certain that what you just said easily ranks on the top-ten of "Stupidest things ever said by stupidest people." What, do you expect that the actors and actresses on StarGate must bend to your will and sacrifice their lives outside of the show just so you can be happy? It's people like you that make me sick thinking that Amanda Tappinjg should essentially give up on her newborn child, just so you can see her more on TV, that although it's entertainment, won't matter in the grand scheme of things. Shows don't matter, people do.
I dont think anyone was suggesting that at all. It was more to the fact that Amanda herself has clearly expressed her desire to continue working and be a mum. And I commend her for that. The problem comes with the rumour/speculation of her being shut out by the PTB so soon after having a child - it's not a completely outrageous arguement to make. It may be a bit of an extreme call, but it's not that insane considering this is the TV industry...
Thanks for addressing the Amanda/Sam issue. I feel much more at ease about it now.
Um, Derek,
I'm sure that Amanda appreciates the support but maybe a little tact would go a long ways.
I know about the actress personally, but I somehow doubt that would want her co-workers treated so rudely.
Just a thought.
There you go, Joe. That's your audience. Fourteen year old boys. Cheers.
"Giving Sam a chance to shine on Atlantis for a while means taking the spotlight away from the characters who are already on that show."
I disagree. In fact, I think Carter is the type of character that would play well off some of the established Atlantis characters (ie. Weir and McKay come to mind), allowing us to explore their characters through their interactions with Carter.
We have magic with Daniel/Vala...it's possible there'll be magic with Mckay/Carter. It could happen!
Joe,
I still can't get beyond the way you and the other M. handled Jack's exit. I realize the show has to move on, you want the audience to embrace the new characters, out with the old, in with the new, don't mention the old character and people won't notice he's gone sort of stuff. Fans can ask until they're blue in the face and I know you won't give a straight, serious answers, but I still cannot imagine WHY you refused to show us why Jack decided to leave the SGC, what his new job entails and exactly what he is doing now. Doing so would NOT have closed the door on the character; it would NOT have been a farewell, just an explanation. What about all those fans out there who aren't involved in on-line fandom; many of them don't have a clue what happened to Jack; are they chopped liver?
The way you handled it really really annoys me. I don't know if it was an intentional on your part to insult Jack fans, or if you were just incapable of coming up with a good explanation as to WHY Jack would leave the SGC and take a desk job, so you just decided to not address it.
Did I mention it really annoys me?
Schyler Groten
I disagree. In fact, I think Carter is the type of character that would play well off some of the established Atlantis characters (ie. Weir and McKay come to mind), allowing us to explore their characters through their interactions with Carter.
For an ep or two, maybe. But this is sounding like more than an ep or two. And riddle me this: If Jonas and Daniel couldn't exist on the same show because they "both filled the same niche", then what about Sam and McKay?
There you go, Joe. That's your audience. Fourteen year old boys. Cheers.
:| Way to make a completely illogical statement...
I disagree. In fact, I think Carter is the type of character that would play well off some of the established Atlantis characters (ie. Weir and McKay come to mind), allowing us to explore their characters through their interactions with Carter.
I think the concern is not so much that she wouldn't play of the established characters, but that her presence would be reduced development for others. People are just seeing this as adding to the already perceived lack of development for certain characeters (Weir, Teyla and Beckett come to mind).
Would I like to see Sam on Atlantis? Sure. But not at the expense of other characters.
"So what if, rather than having Carter play the supporting role in a particular SG-1 episode, she were to, instead, play a more decisive role in an Atlantis story?"
hum hum... no way. I mean there are a lot of very interested characters in Atlantis who are just waiting to be explored. Their relationships and interactions are brilliant and it's just the biggining of the show. I think bringing a major character like Samantha Carter would seriously arm this balance and the way the show is going.
I'm going down on my knees and plead you not to bring Carter in Atlantis. Atlantis is new, it changes from 9 years of stargate, it does not need to be attached to stargate so obviously...
And I'm a Sam fan, an Amanda fan as well as a torri fan and I would love to see them interact but I love the show even more and I'm sure as hell this would be a mistake. But eh, as you seem to defend the idea so seiously I take it the decision has already been made. Too bad.
Jess
I think Sam is more than just "the scientist". Yes, she does have the science background, but she is a trained soldier as well. Furthermore, she has a fairly strong personality, and a history not only with McKay, but with the Stargate program that dates back to its inception. In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration).
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I think Sam is more than just "the scientist". Yes, she does have the science background, but she is a trained soldier as well. Furthermore, she has a fairly strong personality, and a history not only with McKay, but with the Stargate program that dates back to its inception. In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration).
She also has a history with Weir, who she strongarmed into letting her and Teal'c go after the Asgard in New Order. Could this be a source of animosity between them?
Additionally, with McKay, is there a chance that Ford DIDN'T delete his yammering about Sam and she saw it after all? That would make for a funny set of scenes...with Sam being flirtateous with him and then subtly (or not) letting him know she saw his recorded confession...
;)
I think Sam is more than just "the scientist". Yes, she does have the science background, but she is a trained soldier as well. Furthermore, she has a fairly strong personality, and a history not only with McKay, but with the Stargate program that dates back to its inception. In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration).
Oh definitely :D No arguement there ;) And I will also argue very strongly that she is not just 'The Ship' - an arguement I do not see at all. Possibly because I don't like the ship ;)
I could understand having Carter in Atlantis, but just on occasion. I don't want Carter/AT to lose her main lead status on SG-1. If you are talking about two or maybe three episodes for season 10, that would seem reasonable, but not lterally split between the two shows. I don't think it would be fair to Amanda to lose her regular lead status in SG-1. And I don't think it would be good for either show. The team dynamics/chemistry is what made SG-1 successful all these years. Now the new team of Carter, Daniel, Teal'c and Mitchell needs to spend alot of time in TEAM episodes. And the Atlantis team needs to continue to gel--there is still much to be done to build their chemistry. So, if Sam is mainly on SG-1 as an equal lead character, and visits Atlantis on occasion because the story makes sense, then that may work.
Chocdoc
He didn't mention whether Shanks will be back or not for season 10 (you know the odds).
And here's the link, Joe, so you can get caught up (if your not already)
http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/blog/?p=404
While I don't agree with the angry sentiment of Derek Samuelson's comment above, I do agree with a lot of the ideas he expresses, especially with regard to half a deserving Atlantis cast that has virtually become scenery (specifically the very three characters he names; one would hardly know they're regulars most episodes, especially poor Beckett).
I have nothing against Carter or Amanda (and I'm sorry some fans can't distinguish between the two), but I can't imagine that she'll come to SGA and have just a few minutes of screen time per episode, such as a guest character like Lorne or Zelenka (who would be wonderful to see more of, but I digress). Screen time for established SGA characters we're still trying to get to know will be lost, not to mention that if Amanda's budgeted in, who or what will be budgeted out?
I'm very disappointed thus far to hear rumors of Tapping's potential move to SGA, on many levels, but I shall try to reserve final judgement until I see what happens to episode quality. It ain't gonna be easy, though.
K. Aigean
well, joe, i don't know what to think about things. still. you say it would be great for sam carter to have two places to play (sg1 and atlantis), but there are a few things that bother me:
*why did amanda have to call/visit rob cooper to find out what was going on? she found out all the other cast mates (including the new regular claudia black) were already signed on but her. that seems rather insulting that she had to go and find out if she still had a job.
*why bring on new characters (mitchell and vala) if all you were going to do was phase out the original character that these new ppl were taking the roles of? meaning, mitchell took sam's command role and vala is taking amanda's leading lady role. why did you write the 'new' ppl taking precedence over the original? shouldn't the 9 year veteran take precedence over the 9 minute ones?
*how are fans not going to feel resentful of the new ppl that pushed out the old?
*how is sam carter/amanda tapping going to fit into a show (atlantis) that already has an established cast (without sam/amanda being resented)?
i'm sorry to throw this out on *you*, but you're the only ptb that's around to hear.
things just don't seem to be sitting well (with a lot of fans).
sally :)
Wow, and I thought I was upset about things. I'm downright sane by comparison. Anyway, I wish these latest words filled me with more confidence than they do, Joe. It seems that you're looking at things in the vein of "this will appease that fan group" and "those fans will eat this bit up". Part of the problem is that Sam Carter isn't seen as part of the Stargate Universe by fans, she's seen as part of SG-1. The idea of moving any of the original team members off of SG-1 while the show is still on the air is always going to come across as wrong. After so many changes for season nine, many of which are questionable at best, futher fracturing the structure of things seems like a bad course of action to many. I for one am not enticed by the notion that the only way to flesh out Carter's character is to move her to another show. There should be, and always has been in the past, plenty of room for all of the characters in an SG-1 story. There still should be.
I know you have nothing to do with negotiations but you are part of the creative team and you do make yourself available to the public and you can certainly carry the message back to those that need to know and do make those decisions.
I find it interesting that the other cast members (including 2 who had been on the show only 1 year and 1 who had only been in at most 7-8 episodes if you count the coming episodes of S9) had all been approached regarding their return status and AT (an integral member of the cast for 9 years) was not and the excuse given was "we don't know what to do with Carter". I find it interesting that in Paragraph 6 you suggest that Carter is a supporting character after 8 years as a core, integral member of a team of only 4 people, 7 of those years as second in command (and sometimes command)of the elite team and 1 year as the sole leader of the elite team of 3, but in S9, and now as a prospect for S10, she is relegated to a "supporting" role in many episodes.
Right there is the problem. The shiny new cast members and the shiny new direction apparently have no integral core place for one of the 2 remaining ORIGNAL characters (and the actress) who has been with this show for all 9 of its years, the "bedrock" of SG1 the "Obi-Wan-Kenobi" of SG1.
It is nice to see you try and put some sort of positive spin on this but it is not working in the context of what you are actually saying - there is apparently a place, a core, integral place on SG1 for Daniel, Teal'c, Mitchell and a place for Vala, however, for the strong, intelligent, independent, competent, loyal, commander and soldier that is Samantha Carter, there is not so she has to be split between SG1 and SGA in order to use all of her potential???!!! This makes no sense.
You started season 9 with Daniel going off to Atlantis - why not follow through and let him go - why Carter? The addition of a new male lead, who looks inexperienced and incompetent next to Carter (and who, as has been noted in many posts, many places by many fans, will not be accepted by many in a co-leader or leader role as long as Carter is around) and the fawning over vala from all sides of TPTB beg that question to be asked and answered honestly - how there can be no full-time, integral, lead role for the character of Samantha Carter after 9 years of development and 9 years as a major, central figure (including comander of the team) on a team of only 4 people (and only 3 people in S8) is a pathetic testimony to the state of affairs at Stargate SG1.
Paragraph 6 overall, in particular this line: "I think that, given the chance, it would be a shame not to make full use of the character's potential" tells the story that after 9 years there is not a full-time, integral, core place on Stargate SG1 "to make full use of the character's potential" the potential of one of it's lead characters, one of the characters that made the show a success for 9 years, that made the show something a large portion of the fanbase wanted to watch, and I say again, that is just downright pathetic, especially when it appears that this is being done to make room for the male lead, who is overshadowed by the strong female lead of Samantha Carter, and a new female character that is nothing but cheap, crass sexual inuendo jokes and a caricature of everything that is wrong with many sci-fi shows and movies.
Binkpmmc
I am personally disheartened by the fact that producers, or whoever is responsible for these decisions, would feel it necessary to spread the character between two shows. No matter the positive spin, and I do agree with some of what you've said Joe (i.e. that it would bring Carter to the forefront vs. being a supporting character), but the fact remains that Sam IS being pushed to the background and as someone who really enjoys that character it takes away from the enjoyment of the show. And if Sam being a background character is a problem then why is Claudia Black being signed on? This signifies to me that TPTB have storylines but they are using them to focus on other characters rather than Carter. Perhaps I just don't like change but this just seems a bad sign for the character for me.
Shipperahoy
Joe Mallozzi said:
"I think Sam is more than just "the scientist". Yes, she does have the science background, but she is a trained soldier as well. Furthermore, she has a fairly strong personality, and a history not only with McKay, but with the Stargate program that dates back to its inception. In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration)."
Really? Huh, you'd think with those kind of qualifications she'd be out there leading SG-1, wouldn't you? She must not have the right "equipment". Or maybe that's just it. She's too experienced. We wouldn't want someone who is actually competant leading SG-1, would we?
Sorry, Joe, but this argument is incredibly weak considering the way the writers have shafted (no pun intended) the character in order to have a leading man.
Of course Sam is more than just "the scientist." Just as Jonas was more than "Daniel Lite." I guess Sam lucked out in having a background that makes her far more useful in a variety of places.
Personally, though, I still think the move is a bad, bad idea. There may be oodles and gobs of possibilities inherent in this plan, but that still doesn't mean it's going to work. It doesn't mean it's the right move.
But I know it isn't really your decision to make.
Will you be back next season, if/when they ask you?
I'm with Shipperahoy. Your "explanation" would be alot more believable if there didn't appear to be plenty of room and potential stories for the Fargaters. This IS pushing one character out in order to bring another one in. Anything else is just studio spin.
Maggie534
Other than not keeping AT up to speed in the negotiations (shame, shame), I can't see how she is coming out the loser in this. (although I'm sure someone will enlighten me);)
1. She HAS a contract waiting for her to sigh if she chooses--20 episodes guaranteed.
2. She has the opportunity to work with David Hewlett with whom she has shared some great chemistry.
3. If she chooses not to go the SG route, there is apparently another role waiting for her.
4. AT is a smart cookie. I have no doubt that she is trying to get the best deal possible and dropping the news at a con of her own fans seems like an interesting tactic. I've never really heard of any actor discussing contract negotiations before the fact--lots do after the fact, I realize.
Anyway, good for her if she gets a good deal, but I'm not seeing the downside for her. I mean, imagine, if she had been told that her character didn't warrent an upgrade and not to let the door hit her a** on the way out?
What? They did that already?
I did not see this quote you made in another post here until just now and it intrigues me:
"In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration)."
This is exactly the point many people are making as to why the Mitchell situation as co-leader makes absolutely no sense and why the character has not fit in appropriatley for many fans. Carter is "the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration" and she got that way because she is an integral member of SG1. There was plenty of opportunity to explore the "charaters potential" in S9 and in S10 as the leader of the team - again begging the question - is it the orders from on high that there has to be a male lead and Carter makes that male lead look bad and that there has to be more crass, cheap sexually laden vala and Carter just gets in the way so off she goes to SGA to make the new male lead look better and to make room for cheap sexual innuendo?
Binkpmmc
Joe said:
"I think Sam is more than just "the scientist". Yes, she does have the science background, but she is a trained soldier as well. Furthermore, she has a fairly strong personality, and a history not only with McKay, but with the Stargate program that dates back to its inception. In other words, she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration)."
Joe, do you realize you just agreed with everyone saying that Carter should have command of SG-1. Freudian slip?
"Joe, do you realize you just agreed with everyone saying that Carter should have command of SG-1. Freudian slip?"
Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago.
I don't see how Amanda is the wounded party here, either.
She's got a contract, she's chosen not to sign it as yet but to work her fans into a righteous lather on her behalf, instead, and now has them demanding nothing short of top-dog status for her on the 'Stargate' front while she considers other offers.
The "innocent lamb" is playing the game.
Wow Joe, I really don't know how you're doing this. If I were you I would've been fed up with *some* "fans" a long time ago.
Good on you.
PG15
Shipperahoy wrote:
And if Sam being a background character is a problem then why is Claudia Black being signed on? This signifies to me that TPTB have storylines but they are using them to focus on other characters rather than Carter. Perhaps I just don't like change but this just seems a bad sign for the character for me.
Claudia will be replacing AT in S10 as the leading lady; I have no doubt about that. The writers have stated that she's fun to write for and it would seem that she appeals to a certain demographic who finds that kind of humor to be funny. She also is liked by Daniel fans because where Vala goes, Daniel goes and the snarky interaction between them thrills Daniel fans. Vala as she is now, would never be allowed to be on SG-1; the military would not allow it in a million years. That a character like Vala does not fit at all on SG-1 doesn't seem to be of any concern for the PTB.
It's all about ratings -- seems like Sony/MGM/Bridge all believe Vala will draw more of the desired demographic than the more "staid" Carter. Plain and simple. It's a business and clearly PTB don't really care about loyalty, or treating long-time actors/characters with respect. Since Joe and Paul ARE writers and writing is what they do for a living, it's reasonable to assume they could come up with good storylines for Carter if they wanted to. I hate to say it, but VALA will be replacing CARTER. They will be losing me as a viewer, but they probably will pick up more of that desired demographic and more fans like Special K. who love Claudia B. (which I do too, but not as Vala on Stargate.)
A sad state of affairs.
Jayden
Joe said:
"Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago."
Actually, I believe O'neill and Carter DID lead their own teams long ago. Short memory?
OK, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but the corollary to what you're saying is that Sam should be leading, she just isn't. Though, I'm curious, what other qualifications does Mitchell have that gives him lead over Carter, at least in your book?
Joe, we see what you're saying. But you have to understand that *we* also understand, you're working a gig here in as much as you're doing something that may be creative and fun. Lets face it, we say what we gotta say to get the "job" done sometimes. We know (well those of us who are sane do at least) that you're a fan of Amanda's and we know you're a big proponent of Sam Carter, which is why we hope you can somehow get the scope of the (potential) sadness that Amanda's fans would experience if she were cast off in favor of a network executive's decision to get a different female in lead capacity within SG-1. I don't know you, but I figure, honest, as a person, you're probably a really great guy and you probably have as much desire to see the Carter character mishandled as the next SG-1 fan does, but what we want right now is not an assurance from you. Quite frankly, we want to use you. Yeah. I know, crazy honest of me to point that out. We want to float our hope for Carter's future on you as though you were a big honkin' barge. Noah's Arc. Right to (whomever it is that MIGHT be in line to propose something less than positive for the future of the Carter character). We love ya, Joe, but we love your connections even more. ;) So it's a symbiotic relationship really. We're all SG-1 fans here. We know you all love us up there too, but we also know you love our television viewing habits even more... so whether we're waaaaay off base with the very notion that Carter might not play as significant a role next year as she did in season nine, or whether we're not.....we're really just hoping that the fact that you ARE a proponent of the Carter character, might possibly prompt you to consider mentioning the fact that there are thousands of vocal folks out here who'd be seriously bummed out viewers if Carter's character lost her "place" in the SG-1 universe. Even marginally.
I don't see how Amanda is the wounded party here, either.
She's got a contract, she's chosen not to sign it as yet but to work her fans into a righteous lather on her behalf, instead, and now has them demanding nothing short of top-dog status for her on the 'Stargate' front while she considers other offers.
The "innocent lamb" is playing the game.
Or...she really doesn't know...and told her audience what was going on because she was about to spend 2 days with them and knew the question would come up about Season 10. She told it to them straight.
Now I've never had the pleasure of meeting her, but from those who have, the same thing comes up over and over: that she's a straight shooter with an insanely funny sense of humor and that she's gracious to a fault. So if you want to find her to be devious and manipulative, feel free to do so...but it contradicts everything I've ever heard said about her from fans and co-workers alike.
And if by "righteous lather" you mean us not wanting her to be set on the shelf in favor of new cast members, then I'm guilty as charged.
Mary Beth
Joe Mallozzi wrote:
"Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago."
OOh, good one, Joe. I buy all of that. Every single word. By the by, do you happen to have any bridges in the NY area for sale too?
Um...touche? I guess.
I am mad as mad can be! I am fan, therefore I have a sense of entitlement. I demand that Teal'c/CJ to be the center of a inter-fandom war. I mean, c'mon! Daniel ranters had their moment in seasons 5 and 6. Then, the Jonas ranters. Jack ranters had their say early in season nine with Oneill's departure. Now, Carter ranters have the Carter/Mitchell command issue AND this latest news coming out of GABIT? Nevermind the fact that the S/J shippers have been battling with the J/D slashers for years. This is so unfair!!! Where is Teal'c in all this!?!?
After all, Teal'c is the heart and soul of SG-1.
*runs off to start an online petition*
Yeah, Teal'c never has been controversial enough for my book. He's always been too much of a man of action. Hey! Maybe that's what will cause some Teal'c strife. Maybe, that sly dog got a little "action" on the side and is the father of Vala's kidlet.
Joe, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
{{{She's got a contract, she's chosen not to sign it as yet but to work her fans into a righteous lather on her behalf}}}
Nah. We did the riteous lathery thing all on our own. The frothing at the mouth, the snorting and gasping. We're internet fans. It's in our nature to work ourselves all up. And, you know, to be all riteous and lathery... ;)
Joe Mallozzi said:
"Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago."
EXACTLY the POINT many fans have ben making and the opportunity to give Carter her own command was there - everyone from TOTB to the fans, everyone, KNEW she was coming back. TPTB proved by the way they chose to write the first 5 1/2 episodes of S9 that for the first 5 1/2 eps of S9 there did not have to be any leader of SG1 because there WAS no SG1 - not until Carter agreed to come back - ergo no leader was necessary and Carter should have been made the leader of the team she had already been 2IC of for 7 years and leader of for 1 year since, as you say, "the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago".
Bink
Who said anything about devious and manipulative?
Shrewd is a bit more like it.
She can be as gracious and funny and delightful as my dear old grandmother and every bit as much of a tiget when it comes to taking care of business.
She isn't looking at the unemployment line, she's looking for the best offer; it's what people in her line of work do.
If you want to see her as some kind of naive waif, feel free, but the business is what it is, and she's getting by in it.
Teal'c ranter said...
I am mad as mad can be! I am fan, therefore I have a sense of entitlement
On-line fan...on-line fan. Only on-line fans have a sense of entitlement. The vast majority of the viewing audience who isn't on line..well...since they don't post their opinions ad nauseum and demand certain things...they just don't matter.
Oh, I understand the nature of internet fans. I am one, after all. I consider my days incomplete if I don't froth at the mouth at least once.
But I draw the line at snorting.
Ahhh politics and showbiz. No wonder the West Wing ROCKS! Oh wait, wrong show. Sorry. Maybe we should can SG-1 and do a show ... about doing a show! Hm. I'm sensing potential here.
Joe said:
"Um...touche? I guess."
Eh, it's as good as your other answers. And more plausible too.
Oooh I'm sure she's not naive...she's been in the business too long.
And what came out of this weekend? Even if our fears are "much ado about nothing" (which I still hope they are)?
I saw people all across fandom from diehard Carter fans to those who just loved the show and recognized her importance but not Carter fans per se come out in droves and say that they reject the idea of diminishing Carter for the sake of new characters...and that they support her continued involvement in SG-1 as an integral entity.
I saw love and support for her from all over the place (and from places I never would have suspected). So if the fears are for naught, at least it's clear that both Amanda and Carter are acknowledged/liked/loved/adored by a great many people.
And there's nothing negative about that.
Mary Beth
WAIT A SECOND! Stop the presses! Joe said even HE hasn't received his 10th season contract yet. We don't even know if he'll be involved with the show next year. Gah! What are we doing banging down his door?!?!?! Lets go find someone who matters........
[cue the tumbleweed]
.
Don't leave Stargate as well Joe!!!! :D
I've also seen people come out in droves to say they'd be happy to see less of Carter on SG-1, and are scared to death of seeing her swoop in on 'Atlantis' and they hear Whistler's really nice this time of year.
She has her supporters, she has her detractors, and she's got them all whipped up.
Now we just need to know who the hell Shanks was talking to in L.A. today and we'll really have a party.
Or a food fight.
hey,
dude i don't really care about what you guts do with the next season just as long as there is another season of both sg-1 and atlantis and there is alot of action and the good guys win it's all good!
Oh yeah, she has her detractors. All 15 of them over at Our Stargate. "Our Stargate", where every thread is about Sam Carter.
I will give them this, though, they do get around. Conventions, bulletin boards, forums, lists.....in fact, I bet a couple of them are outside of Michael Shanks' house right now.
Rabid Latherer
(these online factions really are too easy)
Since Joe and Paul ARE writers and writing is what they do for a living, it's reasonable to assume they could come up with good storylines for Carter if they wanted to.
Aw, I don't know about that. Considering how they wrote Jack's departure (or chose not to write it), considering that they have 2 Colonels on an SG-1 team, then have to tell on-line fans that they decided to have Carter and Mitchell co-lead, I'm seriously doubting whether they can come up with good storylines. Maybe we all have a limited amount of talent and when it runs dry, that's it.
In fact, it just might be better if all we saw on Stargate was a bunch of characters standing around, saying nothing and then Joe could just tell use his blog to tell us what happened. Sort of like a virtual Stargate.
"Personally, though, I still think the move is a bad, bad idea. There may be oodles and gobs of possibilities inherent in this plan, but that still doesn't mean it's going to work. It doesn't mean it's the right move."
I really can't concur with this enough. I think Amanda Tapping is a terrific character, and Sam Carter's been my favorite character on SG-1 since the very first episode I saw, but the idea of her doing more than a handful of episodes on Atlantis makes me cringe. Whatever she would do there, she'd be usurping someone, because she's better at what she does than McKay is and she outranks Sheppard. While this might make for a good story or two, I really think that in the long run, it'll just cause too many continuity problems that can't just be waved away, especially when Atlantis has already had whole episodes devoted to whether or not McKay and Sheppard really can handle their jobs. Are we just going to ignore what's been established because Carter comes in for half a season?
I think there are good possibilities in any of the SG-1 characters visiting Atlantis occasionally. I really do. I, for one, would be terribly amused by Ronon and Teal'c meeting. Sam and Elizabeth had an interesting antagonism which would be nice to see again. Daniel would have a field day in the city. Mitchell and Sheppard would probably have a good time swapping pilot stories. But bringing any one of them in on a semi-permanent basis would overshadow the Atlantis cast, which is still finding its footing in many ways. After all, we hardly know anything about how these characters got to where they are today. Could we possibly get some more development of Weir and Teyla before we bring in a third woman doing a man's job? Can we see more of the diversity of Atlantis before people start talking about bringing in characters whom we've already known for almost a decade?
I know perceptions change vastly from creator to audience, but as an audience member, I just don't think Atlantis is sufficiently established on its own to support the kind of merger that's been suggested. In the time since this news hit the internet, I've seen a handful of people who thought this was a good idea. Conversely, people who have never before agreed on anything have been expressing very similar negative opinions of the idea. And it's not out of disrespect for Amanda Tapping - far from it. It's been out of concern for a show that still needs to set itself up as its own entity, rather than just another cookie-cutter product.
"In fact, it just might be better if all we saw on Stargate was a bunch of characters standing around, saying nothing and then Joe could just tell use his blog to tell us what happened. Sort of like a virtual Stargate."
Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too.
"I think Amanda Tapping is a terrific character,"
And apparently I needed to edit less and proofread more. Obviously, I meant that Amanda Tapping is a terrific actress, not a character.
::headdesk::
Oh no, not the dreaded "minority" blankie!
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Oh yeah, she has her detractors. All 15 of them over at Our Stargate. "Our Stargate", where every thread is about Sam Carter.
It used to be that OS was the Daniel-centric forum. However, in the past year, they seem to have more threads about how they hate Carter, hate S/J ship. They seem to spend more time talking about their hatred for one of the characters rather than their love for Daniel. Carter must really be threatening.
Also...I've noticed that many of the same people who post on OS in the anti-Sam/love Vala/Daniel threads also now post on the Sony forum -- post to each other saying the same things over and over to the same people. Apparently for them, there aren't enough venues for them to opine about their hatred.
And you're right; it's about the same 30 people over and over again.
"Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too."
Come on Joe, you sly dog, you know that we've all already done that.
BTW, I hope you're enjoying this as much as we are.
You and I both hope the writers of "Lost" are not just making it all up as they go along.
As for Alias... I previously heard an interview that the writers of Alias would have loved to have more Lena Olin but she was not available. Alas, her "presence" was kept in the show a la "Jack O'Neill" fashion (through email and computer correspondence with Jack -Bristow that is).
Don't despair, she returns during season 4. Just when and where, you'll have to watch for yourself and find out! ;-)
"In fact, it just might be better if all we saw on Stargate was a bunch of characters standing around, saying nothing and then Joe could just tell use his blog to tell us what happened. Sort of like a virtual Stargate."
Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too.
Rofl. Does that mean my vision of Chipmunks travelling through the gate to battle the evil racoons can actually come true?? :D
PS, oh and there'd be Ninjas. And Wizards. Possibly Ninja Wizards.
"Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too."
Um...Touche? I guess.
Joe...quick question...(I know that's almost an oxymoron coming from me, but I digress)...
But what about you and Paul? When will you get word about your involvement next year and what exactly is in question, so far as you can safely divulge? Because I love most of your stuff (except Ties that Bind...sorry)...
"PS, oh and there'd be Ninjas. And Wizards. Possibly Ninja Wizards."
Didn't you catch Anubis' Jaffa? They've already played the "Ninjas are cool" card. I'm pretty sure Dumbledore popped up along the way recently as well. Throw in that gene splicing machine and you're all set.
**Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too.**
Nada. The hunk/hunkess factor is important to many people. Daniel naked, Daniel's butt, Teal'c and his big arms in those sleeveless t-shirts, Vala and her boobage, Ben and his...I don't know...the thunkers need to actually see this on-screen; imagining it just doesn't do it justice. Ya see, you really don't need to do any writing at all if you got the thunky, hunky stuff going on.
God, I miss Thor.
PS, oh and there'd be Ninjas. And Wizards. Possibly Ninja Wizards.
.....with pie. Ninja Wizards with PIE. ;-)
How could I forget the PIE!!! :O
"PS, oh and there'd be Ninjas. And Wizards. Possibly Ninja Wizards."
Check out Atlantis' The Long Goodbye for some sweet Ninja action from Torri! And I'm pretty sure Mitchell was krantuing it up already this year on SG-1.
If it were anywhere close to a known, proven, universal truth that Carter is the most wonderful character in the universe, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Because this situation wouldn't exist.
We aren't here because TPTB are willingly trying undermine the future of the franchise by maliciously screwing around with their "gold standard" character, just for kicks.
We're here because they're doing what they have good reason to believe is for the best.
And I seriously doubt they're taking their cues from "Our Stargate."
OMG Torri does the Ninja action???!!!!
Whoooo :D
Joe Mallozzi wrote:
//Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. //
well, it still would have been nice to see a scene where sam was at least offered her spot back (mitchell didn't mind the idea *via avalon 1 and 2*). even if she didn't want it (or you guys didn't want her to have it), at least showing a moment where it was addressed would have been nice. and might have helped tremendously in slipping into the new guard.
i hope you return in season 10, joe. no more losses.
sally :)
Wow, an actual producer online and sniping with fans. Cue the Jaws music.
I'd hate to see the blog comments turn into an "us vs. them" complete with mudslinging. People have their own reasons for liking Stargate but we should keep in mind that us at GW and the people at OS are all fans of Stargate. So what if OS is more Daniel-centric. Daniel is a great character. Sam is my favorite character but I don't think that everybody should feel the same as me. I'm not happy with the seeming directing that I'm seeing the Sam character going but they went through much worse in season 6 (which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish).
My point with the rumors about AT is that it very much feels to me that TPTB at the studio feel that Amanda has run her course and they want to bring in fresh blood. It feels to me almost as if they don't know what to do with her now that Jack's gone, which is sad because she's a tremendous character in her own right without the ship storyline. Of course this is just MY opinion.
Shipperahoy
Ya see, you really don't need to do any writing at all if you got the thunky, hunky stuff going on.
Bingo. So that's why Vala is going to be a regular in S10 and Sam is to be shoved to the back!!! No more having to write the long, scientific, techno-babble speeches, no more research to make sure what Carter says is even remotely accurate. Brain fry. Now they can just have Vala utter more of those memorably profound and well-researched lines such as "Let's Make Babies" and the assorted references to penises and sex. Makes sense now.
Yup, old Joe is but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly he does know a hawk from a handsaw.
Ah, Joe....
Lauren
I for one am outraged at the bitterness expressed by some fans who seem to think they know more about the show than anyone else. The moment you guys start arguing about what you thinks best for the show the more you fracture fandom. We've had a good 7 or 8 years of the most solid fan culture in Sci-Fi (maybe the TV and movie world too) and now you're arguing like a pack of children. The lack of trust in the TPTB who bring us this show every week is disgusting.
Seems a lot of female fans are rooting for Sam to stay firmly entrenched in SG-1 when I think she would be an asset to Atlantis. Either way, some Sam is better than no Sam. This is about ensuring the longevity of the franchise prevails, using resources in the best way possible, and if Claudia and Ben will attract new fans to the franchise, then why not I say!!
Some ppl are enveloped in their own dream world of Stargate when in fact the REAL issue is making sure all our favourite characters stick with the franchise in some kind of decent capacity.
Where's the camaraderie fans?
Sergeant Mick
(in Australia)
"Where's the camaraderie fans?"
Camaraderie? In Stargate fandom?
Well, as nice as that sounds, Joe, someone is going to bitch about minimalizing Carter, somehow. This is internet, it's what we do. I would like to see Carter getting some character development, I've always felt she's the one I've seen changed/grow the least over the last 8 1/2 years, so snaps for thinking outside the box on that one.
As for the whole Fargate thing, again, people are going to bitch, screw 'em and give us some great episodes with aome truly great actors.
And Lena doesn't come back until the penultimate ep of S4, however, there is a really great episode, 7, I think where Vaughn and Syd re-tread a truly inspired X-files episode. Gold in the dross.
Joe, buddy, I get it. It's art. But not in the Sistine Ceiling or Bernini's David kind of art. It's not even art in the American Gothic sort of way. Nope, this is Duchamp's Fountain. And it's beautiful.
Sergeant Mick said:
"This is about ensuring the longevity of the franchise prevails, using resources in the best way possible, and if Claudia and Ben will attract new fans to the franchise, then why not I say!!"
No, Mick, this is not about keeping Stargate on the air for as long as possible at all costs. That's just stupid. All stories have their natural beginning, middle, and end. Authors tend to recognize this. Producers apparently don't. And neither do some fans.
Thank you, Shipperahoy.
Dani347
Shipperahoy said:
"My point with the rumors about AT is that it very much feels to me that TPTB at the studio feel that Amanda has run her course and they want to bring in fresh blood. It feels to me almost as if they don't know what to do with her now that Jack's gone, which is sad because she's a tremendous character in her own right without the ship storyline. Of course this is just MY opinion."
Yeah, but it's an astute one. Thanks for saying so politely what many of us are feeling.
golfbooy said...
Shipperahoy said:
"My point with the rumors about AT is that it very much feels to me that TPTB at the studio feel that Amanda has run her course and they want to bring in fresh blood. It feels to me almost as if they don't know what to do with her now that Jack's gone, which is sad because she's a tremendous character in her own right without the ship storyline. Of course this is just MY opinion."
Yeah, but it's an astute one. Thanks for saying so politely what many of us are feeling.
Ditto.
Mary Beth
As i said last time, WOW!
You guys are really talkative.
A few comments:
1) These are RUMORS!
How about we wait to fly off the handle until there is something a bit more substantial than rumors...
2) Is Amanda Tapping worried ?
Some of seem to want to make that claim, but can you support it? She could have shared that information with her fans as a positive thing, to tell them that she had been guaranteed 20 episodes next season and to give her fans an update as to the current situation. So don't put words in her mouth.
3) Joe never said he didn't like Carter or Amanda Tapping.
In fact, he said quite the opposite.
4) What is so wrong with Carter appearing in both Atlantis and SG-1 ?
I fail to see how that is truly a bad thing. It should be noted that Atlantis was a spin off from (guess which show...) SG-1.
Furthermore, if Carter is in both shows it could make for some very very interesting televison. You guys are trying to accuse the producers of not having new ideas ??
The idea to tie the shows together that intricately is a very novel idea. It intertwines the two shows more intricately and gives the show "Stargate" moreso than two seperate shows based on the same mode of transportation and the same lore. A mega-show that has 40 episodes a year! How cool would that be!
It would be an amazing move if in the future the shows became intertwined even more than just Carter appearing in both shows. Maybe a major arc that involves both shows? Imagine the possibilities!
Thanks Joe, and keep us posted!
-Jeremy
agent dark said...
//Oh definitely :D No arguement there ;) And I will also argue very strongly that she is not just 'The Ship' - an arguement I do not see at all. Possibly because I don't like the ship ;)//
i agree, agent dark. i love the ship, and i know she's not just the ship either. just like i know joe's not just the husband. ;)
sally :)
The command thing, the 2 colonels thing...IMHO they are SMALL DETAILS. That's one of the problems with fandom (of many, many genres) today, they focus too much on tiny details like this. Oh, there are 2 colonels! Oh! That aliens shouldn't have 5 fingers! They should have 2! Oh, this ship shouldn't be able to go above warp 6! Romulans can't cloak during the 22nd century! The warp scales you're using is all wrong! They never mentioned Enterprise in the other Trek shows!
And so on and so forth. Now, the problem is this: how in bloody hell does this relate to the bigger storylines, really? Just because someone may mess up a bit on the small details doesn't mean this is true for bigger ones. I've been through this with the Trek fandom (can you tell?), and people just can't seem to understand that.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CAPTAIN HAS 2 RANK PIPS INSTEAD OF 3!! IT'S NO BIG DEAL JUST WATCH THE DAMN SHOW AND STOP TAKING NOTES!!!
Ahem...yeah. Sorry for that rant there. It seems this is gonna surpass that 400 something comments last time. No problem.
PG15
I think it would be awesome to have two leading ladies (why do some people think there can only be one?). A dynamic between Vala and Carter could have a lot of interesting dialogue and conflict. Vala's character has a lot of room for growth which is fun to see, so it would also be interesting to see the dynamic between her and Carter change over time. It could bring a similar feeling (though obviously not the same) as we had when watching Daniel and O'Neill interact.
I actually think that carter may work better on Atlantis. Why do you ask. Because in sg-1 she no longer has her counterpart O'Neill.
After Vala left in sg-1 I felt that Vala fit in better in the team than Carter because Vala is a perfect counterpart for Daniel. With the current team there is little to no conflict within the team.
The thing with Carter is that there is another counterpart out there: Rodney Mckay.
It's about team dynamics and I think that Carter would fit in better in Atlantis at this moment.
The only problem is off course that Atlantis already has a large cast with characters that really need to be explored further. For starters get rid of Ronon Dex.
Cause I have no idea what can be done with him in terms of character development. He's just there and that's it.
Anyway looking forward to season ten and three (and the second half of the current seasons). I guess we'll see where all the characters end up in the next few weeks and months.
This post has been removed by the author.
I actually like the idea of Sam countering Vala...that would make for a really interesting dynamic. Like I said, a strong opposites attract friendship like Jack and Daniel had once upon a time.
And who's to say everything's always going to be peachy between her and Mitchell? Or her and Landry?
There's lots of potential...if TPTB care to do it.
Joe,
I have to say, this blog commentary has been the most fascinating part of my day!
Ya know, I figure that you can't answer what is or isn't happening with Amanda (altho nice try.....). To be honest, your comments feel like the studio attempting to "sell" us on the idea of Sam being split between SG1 and Atlantis. Which is ironic considering it seems fairly clear that YOU haven't signed contracts etc for the upcoming season :-S
And you and Amanda are not the only ones... I'm all for fresh blood, but haven't "they" figured out by now that fandom adapts better when you introduce us to new stuff a little bit at a time? (and avoid all that cliche-y stuff, we're not an unintelligent audience, we recognise targeting to a particular demographic when we see it...). That said, fleshing out the characters we already have would be better than adding new ones (I feel this is particularly true for Atlantis). There are so many possibilites I would love to see - Vala and Sam could develop a grudging friendship, much like how I think Jack and Daniel evolved, and I feel like Sam has been completely off the radar so far (yes, I know, wait till the back end of season 9...).
Anyway, watching this all go down is like watching some weird 21st centruy gladiator blood sport :-o
I'm rooting for you Joe! You and Paul are some of my favourite PTB's :-D
For Carter to be front and centre in episodes of Atlantis means that someone who is already on Atlantis can't be. Why should the team already over there lose out? They're doing a grand job and have gelled exceedingly well, why spoil it?
I'm rooting for you Joe! You and Paul are some of my favourite PTB's :-D
You know, they should totally make Joe and Paul action figues! With Kung-Fu Action! And the Joe figure can be armed with an Ice Cream Scoop! Oh Yeah!
Or is that a bit too wierd? :$
Mallozzi said:
Nope. The fact is, SG-1 was disbanded. Mitchell came in as the new team leader because there was no leader - much less SG-1. At the time Carter rejoined, Mitchell was in charge. Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago.
You are correct, SG-1 was disband and Mitchell was given lead of SG-1 in season 9, but in season 5 Daniel also 'died' and you [the writers of Stargate] also managed to write a plotline to bring the character back as an integral part of the show. Daniel didn't come back as a ghost to walk behind Jack and whisper in his ear. You managed to put him back in the position he left. You would think that conjuring up a story to bring a character back after leaving a job would be a bit more easy to do, but maybe I'm wrong.
Aw, you know you love all the bickering and the petty fighting, really. It's like, um... an episode of Jackass. A guilty pleasure.
I'm impressed with the Cantonese, and mostly amazed you have time to do all this stuff. I've been studying the damn language for about six months now and all I can say is, "yes, "no," "that's too expensive," and "go do something unmentionable to your mother," which I still can't get the tones for and ends up sounding like "go do something unmentionable to your cat." But you know, both insults work. The latter is more surreal, true...
For Carter to be front and centre in episodes of Atlantis means that someone who is already on Atlantis can't be. Why should the team already over there lose out? They're doing a grand job and have gelled exceedingly well, why spoil it?
Hmm... I'd be angry as hell if it was to be at the cost of ANY of permanent Atlantis cast. But IF, let's say, and it's a big IF, it's for example Mitch Pilleggi who's not able to make it for the next season, than it would make sense if AT was going to take his place.
Joe, love your comments about the little Dominar. BTW, do you believe that Rygel would agree to be degraded to alien/scientist team MEMBER? I bet he would demand to be the LEADER, and I don't mean just scientists' team... :D
Personally Joe I would like to say thank you for all your blogs and your work (hopefully continuing) in the Stargate Universe, As a long time fan of SG-1 since it started here in the UK and also the proud owner of every DVD available I'm really enjoying the direction Season 9 is taking so far - sure I have only seen upto origin (theres a new one on tonight) but I am enjoying it and loving having Ben & Claudia around as i'm also a huge farscape fan.
Like many I do miss Jack but thats beacuse with any long running show you get used to people but I don't feel the show has suffered without him and I totally understand hs decision to leave and hope he's very happy.
Lastly I hope your back for the new season and I hope the writing continues to be as strong as it allways has been
Thanks again Joe.
Krit
WOW Joe dude, what, did MGM/Sony send you here to piss on the fire AT started. I think she is very shrew. She went right to her power base: Us the fans. Its nice how TPTB first take her command away. She was the leader of SG-1 for a whole season right or was that a dream? Did Ben make it part of his joining Stargate that he be given the starting role and not a supportive role? I mean look at the new intro. It might as well be Starring Ben Browder for all the pictures before the STARGATE SG-1 screen are all him. But you knew that the fans would have gone crazy with that so you put his name AFTER the STARGATE SG-1 screen. We're not stupid people. So now its all about him with the others MS, AT and CJ just in supportive roles.
That being said. In Canada a woman has a right to a full year off on maternity leave. I wondered why AT came back so fast and now we really know why. Even though it is the law that a woman cannot lose her job, AT knew that if she took too much time off that she would be replaced. So here we stand. As much as I love Vala. She has no purpose, no depth and no right to preplace Carter. It was great while it lasted but by the 6th episode it was growing tiresome. Stargate is a drama not a comedy. If you choose Vala over Carter the show will not last long. Oh, and don't say Vala is not replacing Carter because we all know that is the truth no matter how much you try to spin it. As I have said the fans are not stupid. But than how many times did RDA have to tell you guys that?
And as much as you try to cover your tracks. You screwed up and know it. Those reasons ARE the reasons Carter should have been the leader of SG-1 and not some fake Medal of Honour winner. Please how did he ever earn that honour? I almost choked on that one. So what saving earth 9 times counts for crap but shooting down an alkesh means so much eh? Please. I guess you had to make him a hero if he was going to take the command of SG-1 away from the WOMAN who earned it right?
On to that matter. You wrote it so SG-1 was disbanded so you could give Ben B the leader role. So you cannot use that fact as justification for GIVING the role to Cameron. That is just oh so freakin stupid. Again, we fans are not stupid so please stop it with the dumb excuses. Geeeeze. You know damn well that you could have written her being abscent for her MATERNITY leave some other way and leave her incharge of SG-1. Please be honest here. Show respect and we will give it. Show disrespect and we will hate you and not believe you in anything you say.
At least wait until the smoke clears! Let's see what Amanda says in reply to all this - but I'm sure she wouldn't want all this bitching over the subject. I don't like the idea of her being messed around like this - but for God's sake you lot sound like a bunch of six year olds in the playground - "it's mine!", "No, it's mine!" etc
I love SG-1(and SGA) but it's not worth coming to blows over!
Wow did you read what we said? It comes right from AT mouth herself. She did a con over the weekend in the UK. She is the one who said that everyone else had contracts presented but she did not. She was the last one and finally after waiting and waiting she went and asked what was up. That is when she was told that they did not know what to do with sam in S10. I think she knew what was up and told the fans at the con so that we could come to her defense. Its bullshit.
I loved Vala also. She was great. Her and Daniel have great on screen chemistry. But it has no depth and once the honeymoon is over it will get stale fast.
Plus, why is it that shows think you cannot have two female stars. Nope you have to get rid of one. Its stupid. Why can they just not have Vala come back from time to time. It makes much more sense.
I did read what you said, and I had friends who went to the event. I do get the impression that a lot of people resent Ben and Claudia as being brought in simply because they were leads on Farscape - maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
Anyway with regards to Amanda - she is an intelligent, clever and funny woman as well as a brilliant actress - so the decision as to whether she stays or not is up to her - and whatever her choice I will support her. Therefore I agree with what you say, that it is wrong to waste such a rich character as hers. All I was trying to say is - I will reserve judgement until the end of the season. I like discussion but this backbiting cannot do us any good.
The wishes of the Mitchell character notwithstanding, my preferred SG-1 would be Vala, Sam, Daniel & Teal'c. Cam can be the ubiquitous leader of SG-2 (say) who appears in and has a role in every episode. There! Everyone wins!
Err, I seriously doubt BB came into Stargate demanding anything... From what I've read about him, he seems a pretty top bloke.
Indeed he seems to spend more time on set than at home. Half a season is not enough time to judge his character. Still not sure how they'll make the Sam/Cam leadership thing work though - hopefully not at Sam's expense.
joe said:
If you stop to think for a moment - there were episodes (as evidenced by this season in which we had to service a number of new elements including the introduction of a new villain, a new team member, a new General, a new CMO, and an ongoing Jaffa storyline) in which the Carter character played a significantly smaller supporting role (and, of course, there were episodes in which she was in the thick of the action, like Horsemen I and II, Ripple Effect, and Camelot to name a few). So what if, rather than having Carter play the supporting role in a particular SG-1 episode, she were to, instead, play a more decisive role in an Atlantis story? We're not talking about minimizing Carter, but quite literally making the most of her character across two universes (and I dont' mean that literally). In fact, fans of the character would actually be getting more front-and-center Carter, not less.
Carter a supporting character? Oh ok. But then what about Daniel? Was he a supporting character at any time and in that case why not make full use of him and send him to Atlantis for a number of episodes too? That would make even more sense to me, the guy wanted to go to Atlantis after all and as far as I know there is no Daniel-like character on that show...
Is there any truth in the rumour that Rob and Brad played golf to decide Carter's fate? Loser has to take her on in his show, but sadly the game was a draw.
Wow, how desperate IS Tapping, pulling the "pity poor me" card at a con in the hopes that her fans will rise up in their usual hate mail sending frenzy on her behalf. Doesn't she know that 15 letters a day with "u suk" scrawled in pink glitter crayon from 3 different address probably isn't the most mature negotiation tool?
oh, probably no more desperate than MS fans doing the same thing to save him during season 6. And then him coming back because the work didn't come about and he needed the money :rolleyes:
Now how about you stop making pathetic jabs at the actors and I'll stop my sarcastic ones?
"Doesn't she know that 15 letters a day with "u suk" scrawled in pink glitter crayon from 3 different address probably isn't the most mature negotiation tool? "
Apparently you've tried that before and failed, huh? So you're posting from experience. Thanks for the tip. (You must have a lot of pink glitter crayon left on the wall of your bedroom to be that frustrated...I think if you scrub with soap it comes out).
I'm surprised you rose to that comment. It is true though, everytime a change is threatened to be made to SG-1(good or bad) we all go hyper. Let's leave this to TPTB and the actors to sort out.. then let us worry...
"In fact, fans of the character would actually be getting more front-and-center Carter, not less."
Yeah, and the Atlantis fans find their show over-shadowed by SG-1. I'm sorry, Joe - I don't want to seem rude - but it's dropping the baby to catch the eggs.
One question Joe - How is a character like Sam surplus to SG-1?
One question Joe - How is a character like Sam surplus to SG-1?
One question Joe - How is a character like Sam surplus to SG-1?
Here's an idea:
Joe said:"Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago."
Apparently, since experience is not a requirement for leadership or co-leadership of an off-world team then let's send Mitchell to SGA to be the leader there and then Carter can take her rightfully, deserved place back as leader of SG1.
SueC
Agent Dark said...
"Err, I seriously doubt BB came into Stargate demanding anything... From what I've read about him, he seems a pretty top bloke."
I meant the character, not the actor - as in being offered the command of SG-1
I wouldn't mind a bit of Carter over in Atlantis, but I do think she belongs on SG1. However, I'm not a writer, and if you folks can come up with a dynamite story arc, then I'll give it a whirl.
Hopefully you'll also be around for season 10. Wouldn't be the same around here without you. Maybe I should say it would be "quieter" without you. *LOL*
Sorry to hear about Rygel not joining the team, but I think that will work out for the best. Ice cream gives Rygel incredible gas. ;O)
Oooh! Can you feel the love? Actually this one of the few places I've seen any dissension. Most posters seem to agree that if AT goes back and forth like a badminton birdie, it will only diminish her character and the spirit of both shows. Over on a certain two shipper sites in the SGA universe, people who were previously firing broadsides across each other's bows are now in total agreement. Maybe this situation will prove once and for all whether the opinion of the most loyal fans actually matters.
Is there abny chance that the Farscape and Battlestar Galactica will be integrated to the Stargate Universe? This 2 show could be in other gateless galaxies so there will be chance to make cross-overs.
Mmm the TPTB listen to the fans... we can dream...
Hey Joe,
I've read every one of your blogs and this last one prompted me to post a reply. I just wanted to let you know that I think Season 9 of SG-1 has been great. I'm a Farscape fan 2nd, Stargate fan first, and I've loved having Ben Browder and Claudia Black on the show. I think they're both great actors and bring a lot to the show.
If the show continues on the path that it is currently on, I look forward to another 9 years!! I think this season, there is a renewed sense of urgency, and peril that has been missing for awhile. I think the super soldiers in Season 7 brought that fear back into the show. Kind of like, "How are we going to get out of this one??" And I think with the Ori, that feeling is back again.
I know some people are upset about the "possible" changes in the cast, ie. Amanda, but change is inevitable. Change means growth. Growth means life. If you don't grow as a show, you die.
By the way, just finished up Season 8 of SG-1 on DVD. Looking forward to Season 4 of Alias, hoping to see Lena Olin. And also anxious to start Season 4 of 24!
Sincerely,
Barry
Sam's worn out. Her whole character and existence centered around that leaking dingy called Sam and Jack, and now she's pretty much useless except for people who want to get some quality reading time in while Sam's scenes are on. I'm sorry for Atlantis if they get her for half of the season or more.
Tok'Ra Hostess in the role of Annonymous:
AGENT DARK SAID:oh and there'd be Ninjas. And Wizards. Possibly Ninja Wizards.
Yeah. I say get rid of all the present cast and replace 'em with....
Hur Hur...
Introducing the all-new SG-1: Cohen the Barbarian, Truckle the Uncivil, Caleb the Ripper, and, riding MALP, Mad Hammish.
Whut? Whutzeesay?
I have an idea: boot Sheppard and give Carter his command.
And if you all really feel so strongly, stop watching for a week. Bop the ratings. Only power you have really...
Hey, Joe, I know you've been getting a lot of negative rep lately, so I just want to say that at the very least I still love the show and that you're doing a fantastic job. The people here can say as much as they want to that the writing's getting worse, but I think they're paying less attention to that and more attention to all the change. If anything, the writing's getting better. Deus Ex Machina was a great episode, definately one of my favorites, and thank you for writing it!
Joe,
I just want to say thank you, both for posting your blog, and for responding to fan questions on the message board. There are a lot of fans who obviously are very passionate about the shows, and about their favourite character(s), and you are incredibly patient in listening to, and responding to them!
So a big "thank you!"
On the contrary, sorry to say Joe, but Deux Ex Machina was the most BOOOOOORING episode I've ever seen, multiple Ba'al at the end of it was the best thing in this crap. I just can't believe it came from the same writers who made me ROTFLOL with The Ties That Bind. How is that possible?
>>jmallozzi said: Or you could simply imagine your ideal show in your head. That'd be cool too.<<
You know, I actually do this for Jacob’s death bed scene, just a bit (making it more about is Pete right for you and what makes you happy rather than...well, what was written–grr ship). It makes it so much more palatable. Of course, in my ideal show Janet and Jacob are still around–yeah yeah, Ripple Effect, I know. [Goes to mourn the loss of Jacob for a moment]
Back now.
Overall, I’ve been enjoying S9, but I’ve really been waiting for the band to get back together and SG-1 reconstituted (and I don’t care if Mitchell or Carter or both is running the show. No, really.) I am SO looking forward to the four team members doing things TOGETHER, remember, like they used to in the early years? You can write scenes for all four of them now! Please (with Carter, with Carter)[wonder if the subliminal thing is working, doh!].
Thanks for commenting and trying to calm the rumor mill, even if you don’t know much of the details either, those darn contracts. Sigh, agents, lawyers, network execs, accountants... What again does your title as producer entail? Donut shopping? I’m kidding–but you may want to watch for that clause in your own negotiations. ;-)
I’ve stayed out of the “fandom factions”, wasn’t even online when the S5/6 debacle happened, but from my more objective perspective, it seems that AT/Sam fans and MS/Daniel fans have switched perspectives, and instead of one side being sympathetic realizing “oh, I see where they’re coming from now”, both sides are just redrawing the battle lines. (I am by no means lumping ALL Daniel or Sam fans into that category because I’m *shocker* a fan of both actors/characters. Based on the internet, you’d think we were a rare breed). Besides that, the hand wringing is for rumors. I hope AT is on SG1. I hope MS is on SG1, and BenB, and CJ, and CB as [sigh] Vala (love CB but really dreading permanent Vala–and baby(? please for the love of Mike don't make it Daniel's), can’t she just be a frequent visitor?) But until something definite is announced, I’ll just bide my time and wait for S9.5.
And though all of the hand wringing has been entertaining, in a watching a train wreck kind of way, lost again is the fact that SG1 is coming back for a record breaking (not counting a certain UK show) tenth season, so congratulations.
As for the very scary internet rumor of "Fargate": Rygel’s one of the puppets, right? (never watched Farscape) That Ben Browder issue was just a red herring, Joe. The real problem was with Thor losing his top dog status. He does have the biggest trailer right? Don’t mess with the Asgard. Anyway, glad that scandalous rumor is finally put to rest. LOL
As for Lena Olin in S4 Alias, she DOES appear, but don’t be holding your breath while waiting for it. ;-)
I find it highly entertaining how rabid people have gotten over speculation.
It is possible that there is nothing insidious going on here, that they aren't trying to weed out Sam Carter and Amanda - hell Joe identified the reasons that that would be profoundly stupid.
Right now, contracts are getting negotiated, during this phase alot of 'untruths' are rumour. By the term 'untruth' I generally mean something that is based on a misunderstanding, but can often be used on the negotiating table.
Just because there is a suggestion that she stars on Atlantis and SG-1 does not mean she would be spliting her time down to middle. It could mean 19eps SG-1, 1 Atlantis.
People, stop panicking. I understand you are a fan, but there are many other fans out there that are willing to wait and find out what happens, rather then jump to a conclusion over one possible outcome and suddenly decide that the show isn't worth your time. It could be great, we don't know yet, it hasn't even been written!!! Give a person a chance to work on it, to negotiate.
Patience is a virtue. This is a business, let them weed through all the red tape. Trust that they(TPTB) aren't going to screw us up, otherwise you aren't a fan of Stargate, you are a fan of imagingate, where everything goes you way. To quote Joss Whedon "I don't give the fans what they want, just what they need" okay, it's a paraphrase, but a fair one at that.
Joe, you rock... I appricate you taking your time to have this blog. I love hearing about the otherside of the camera. And I hope you find this as amusing as I do, and gratifying because you have created a show where people care.
Thank you for your commentary, and for your willingness to put yourself out into the fan feeding frenzy. We can certainly be a temperamental lot. :)
Would you believe I've already been asked to start a SaveSamCarter.com?
That, and the comments in this thread are evidence that the fans miss the "old" series a great deal. Rightly or wrongly, "reinvention" doesn't seem to have had the intended effect. Perhaps renaming the series would have been a better idea in the long run; your hardcore long-time fan base may well have taken that to mean that the show they once loved is no more, and their expectations would have changed accordingly.
This is not to say I do not think the current incarnation of Stargate cannot succeed, but I think it was a tactical error to treat it like an iteration Law and Order and assume the characters are interchangeable. The loyalty fans have toward their particular favorite character(s) or actor(s) is astonishing, frankly. I am certain you're aware of that already, and I hope you don't underestimate that factor while considering options for season ten.
As one of the aforementioned fans with "astonishing" levels of loyalty, I'll only be watching one episode of season nine (Ripple Effect), though I am optimistic I will have a reason to watch in the future as well.
katie
webmaster, savejanetfraiser.com.
Joe, your loyalty to Amanda Tapping is remarkable given she lit this firestorm you're now in the middle of. Bravo.
Were I a 'suit' at the studio or network, watching the first 5 eps of Season 9 and seeing Vala light up the screen, I would have done a lot less than promise Tapping 20 more eps on either show. The ratings bear out that Vala's departure/Carter's arrival hurt the show -- a 10% drop!
I'm fascinated you think Carter's presence on Atlantis would help develop those characters. I've really started enjoying that show this year, and it's hard to imagine how having her there will help develop those characters. And I really don't need to see Carter/McKay UST, please.
I'm sorry, Sam Carter is a fine character and all but to suggest that she is some kind of paragon of virtue is kind of silly in my opinion. She has worn the tight fitting low cut clothes with the best of them and while on duty even. I remember hearing that the airforce advisor said that he wished Sam would stop wearing tank tops because as a Colonel she should set a better example. Revealing costumes have been a tradition on Stargate since the beginning.
And apparently she was sleeping with one guy while harboring feelings for another. Nice. I guess that goes for Jack too.
And speaking of Jack. Does no one remember his cheap,off color remarks or is that OK since he's a guy or because it might accidently be shippy if he said it in front of Sam?
And blaming one site or group of fans for the negativity in the fandom is ridiculous. Spend some time in the JS shipper thread at GW. Mitchell, Vala, Lam and her neckline, Daniel, Michael Shanks, Daniel fans, Rob Cooper and even Amanda herself if she gives a nonshippy interview are all regularly and soundly raked over the coals. Anything is that doesn't support their version of the Sam and Jack show.
Plently of negativity to go around.
Amanda will be fine. She is not facing unemployment any time soon. I think people are more worried that they won't get their own personal vision of the show.
What was that the SJHW used to say? Something lik TPTB should be free to write the show according to their own vision without interference from the fans.
Watch the show if you like its direction; don't watch if you don't. Seems simple to me.
I do find it interesting to read the posts from people who keep telling those of us who are concerned about what this could mean for the show if it pans out to calm down, as though this show is our lifeline or something. I think that these blog comments provide us with a unique opportunity to air our opinions on everything from ice cream to whether Teal'c will ever be allowed an actual monologue.
As long as we're not calling people names, which granted some people are, then why shouldn't we be allowed to say that we're not jumping up and down with giddy excitement over the thought of Sam being spread back and forth over 2 shows? I will write my opinion and I don't kid myself that anything I write will suddenly make TPTB change their entire creative process. If the show gets to a point where I am not enjoying it anymore I will simply stop watching. And, no, that's not a threat or me stamping my foot like a petulant child who's not getting my way. I just don't watch shows I don't enjoy.
Shipperahoy
Teal'c get a monologue? Ha. Not on this show, not in this season. Although, he did get to give Garek a roll of the eyes in the hallway. See, character development right there. You people are never happy!
Kalliope said...
someone said -
//For Carter to be front and centre in episodes of Atlantis means that someone who is already on Atlantis can't be. Why should the team already over there lose out? They're doing a grand job and have gelled exceedingly well, why spoil it?//
Kalliope said -
**Hmm... I'd be angry as hell if it was to be at the cost of ANY of permanent Atlantis cast.**
so, kalliope, it's alright for mitchell and/or vala to come in and be the reason that sam/amanda is being pushed to the wayside (the cost of ANY of the permanent sg1 cast), but it's different if sam/amanda is the one being catered to? how's that fair?
sally :)
Hey I can actually read some of the comments without them stepping all over each other. At least for now. :)
The Rygel/Browder feud is as old as the hills and the Dominar usually wins. Be afraid...be very afraid. :D
And I've been focusing in and out of Alias for a couple of years now. Right now I'm just keeping up with the story now hoping that it will improve.
But seriously, this one concerns me a bit (If I did, I would have been asked to return for the show's 10th season by now).
Say it ain't so Joe! I, for one, would miss you.
On to Carter. I can understand the need to give characters something to do instead of wallpapering them into episodes and scenes where they have no place. If it happens a few times a year, that's seems pretty natural, but having no relevant place more than half the time wouldn't be good. Poor Teal'c has been wallpaper more times that I can count (well I stopped counting, really, about the time I ran out of toes.) Both Daniel and Sam have spent their time in the "why am I here" time-out box over the years, too. I hate to see it happen to any of them for very long.
So if the opportunity is there for Carter to not be wallpaper, I'm all for it. The same goes for Daniel, Teal'c and Cameron. If I had my way, they'd all not be wallpaper on SG-1 instead of SGA because I love their team chemistry.
But I also don't know all the things going on behind the scenes. Maybe this is the best solution to the requirements and restrictions of the studio/network/chief poohbah mukity mucks. We will probably never know all the machinations going on behind the scenes.
I just sure hope we find out soon, before the online fandom totally explodes with rumor and innuendo.
akimbo
!@#*$&!*#(!$&! Still can't remember my password.
Got to say Joe, you weather the critisims well. Big Stargate fan, appreciate all the work you and your co-workers do. I will agree some episodes are not good. You and other people at bridge studios have said the same actors, directors and producers alike. I am delighted by the news of renewals for both show and that we are now guarunteed 60 more hours of stargate (Back half of current seasons included). Now I am sure some episodes with not be great, but if you view the seasons as whole you will see where it is going.
Again thank you and keep up the good work
We really shouldn't be working ourselves into a fenzy over all this. Either you like the new direction of the show or you don't. Each side has their own reasons for their beliefs. AT needs to handle her own deals with her employers, and while I'm sure she loves the support, she probably doesn't like the hostility behind it.
As for Joe here, he's doing his job. He can't help it if TPTB tell him what to do or say. We don't even know what's going to happen, hence "not set in stone." I was a little frustrated at some of the posts both for and against everything that is going on, so I decided to try to give light to the real issue here, the great divide in fans. No matter what happens, if you like the show, stick together, don't competley separate yourselves over one character. I made that mistake myself when Janet was, erm, let go. I wish I had kept watching the show after that so I could actually have an opinion on the new direction of the show.
I won't be watching SG1 anymore simply because I'm too far behind and waaaay out of the loop, not because I don't like the show or the actors. I dont' buy DVDs because I don't have the money, and it's hard to play catch-up on sci-fi. I'd like to thank the people who work on this show to try to make it better, despite the criticism they get. Even if their ideas don't "work" or the fans aren't pleased, the writers, directors, producers, and especially the actors (who see the fans regularly at cons and have to face direct criticism) still get up every day and go do their jobs to try to bring us entertainment worth of the title "Stargate SG-1" (and Atlantis).
I think if you compare the Sam threads on GW vs. places like the Sony forum, you will find considerably less hate directed at other characters and actors at the Sam threads. No, really. Go look and compare.
Not to say that Sam fans don't do their fair share of frenzied frothing and slavering on behalf of their favorite character, but as someone else pointed out, they don't seem to have the need to tear apart other characters and actors like rabid dogs, either. Although, apparently several of them do go after other Sam-hating *fans* with teeth showing.
Grrrrr. Woof.
It is a bit like watching a virtual dogfight. If real blood flowed I would be appalled. But as it is, it's kind of entertaining.
Fans:
How come Mitchell doesn't do anything?
How is he qualified to lead SG-1?
You're shuffling Carter off to Atlantis?
Does Vala really belong on an SG team?
Where the hell did Jack O'neill go?
What about the ship? On? Off?
Why was the classic wormhole effect changed?
Do you even know what a team episode is?
What about Beckett, Weir, Teyla, Ronan?
Tok'ra? What's that?
Allies? Old stories?
Joe's Response:
Shut up! It's all awesome. And it will continue to always be awesome. We are awesome, right? Please, tell me we're awesome. Oh, crap. Maybe I should bail.
Hm.
OK, where's it written an SG team can only have four members?
That being said, it's a freakin' TV show. I don't like it - I won't watch it.
Killing several birds with one stone before HN51 comes along….
JMallozzi said... Umm, I'm not feeling particularly angry and I don't think my blog was particularly angry either. Unlike, say, you're post.
Should be ‘your’, not ‘you’re.’ As a writer you should know ‘you’re’ means ‘you are.’ Sorry, it was too easy a shot not to take… ;)
Anonymous said...
I don't see how Amanda is the wounded party here, either.
She's got a contract, she's chosen not to sign it as yet but to work her fans into a righteous lather on her behalf, instead, and now has them demanding nothing short of top-dog status for her on the 'Stargate' front while she considers other offers.
The "innocent lamb" is playing the game.
&
Anonymous said...
Wow, how desperate IS Tapping, pulling the "pity poor me" card at a con in the hopes that her fans will rise up in their usual hate mail sending frenzy on her behalf. Doesn't she know that 15 letters a day with "u suk" scrawled in pink glitter crayon from 3 different address probably isn't the most mature negotiation tool?
I think any actor could say ‘the sky is blue’ and get some fans in a lather. Amanda shared news with fans; level-headed fans have had more level-headed responses. Ardent shippers are using this news to push for more Sam/Jack on the show, which might be hard, considering Elvis, er, Jack, has left the building. Some slashers want Sam booted out the door because well, they like slash (two guys together in a more than friendly manner, ahem, cough cough). Cripes, it was even reported years ago when Garwin Sanford did a con how some fans booed him and called him a stalker (obviously, these fans need to get a life) because Narim was interested in Sam (yeah, well, look where that got him, blown up or stuck in the woods).
The fans themselves decide to become the self-appointed protectees of the actors/characters. Do you really think MS or AT gathered fans together in a dark corner in a hotel corridor and outlined the plan to push TPTB for whatever?? Sheesh.
Anonymous #2 said...
Oh yeah, she has her detractors. All 15 of them over at Our Stargate. "Our Stargate", where every thread is about Sam Carter.
Anonymous said...
Wow, an actual producer online and sniping with fans. Cue the Jaws music.
Sergeant Mick said
Where's the camaraderie fans?
Deevil said...
I find it highly entertaining how rabid people have gotten over speculation.
This fandom was united only in the beginning. As soon as people parceled out to groups specifically for fan fiction (gen, slash, ship, etc.), then the squabbling began. Slash and ship are fan fiction descriptions, NOT show descriptions. However, there are a handful of fans in each ‘faction’ which would love to see their ‘genre’ represented. If you spend enough time on various boards, invariably the same names (or writing style if they write as anonymous) crop up vivisecting their target (be it Daniel, Jack, Sam, etc, or any actor). It’s probably a dozen people from the ship faction, ditto from slash, ditto from Jonas fandom, etc. who stir up all the really intense vociferous name-calling and quarrelling. Okay, MS left and came back. Old news. Let it die. RDA left because he wanted to. Ditto. Corin Nemec is gone and we the fans will probably never know all the politics involved in that, so, dead horse too. As for AT, well, she’s joined the club I guess in being flamed for remarks said and not said.
Now, Joe has said he likes to see the ‘wackos’ responses, so that kind of comment of course can just egg on fans to continue, so it’s difficult to rouse any true sympathy when you’re waving a red flag in front of a bull. And if fans don’t kevetch it about it, you know they’re elsewhere burning up bytes.
As for Stargate’s future… who knows? I’m more into Atlantis now than SG-1 as the characters are more fun to watch. Plots on SG-1 just aren’t as exciting, and when the characters act ho-hum a lot of the time, hey, the viewers can too.
Hi Joe - just wanting to add to the comments above about Rygel. It sounds as if you have been "chatting" with Ben Browder again if you know all about Rygel's type of dominating personality. Not only will he demand a larger trailer than anyone else, he will require many more support staff to deal with his many needs on set. He is more expensive than any other actor you could even imagine hiring. Plus he will eat all the food brought on set for breaks and lunch - none will be left for anyone else(I am not exaggerating about this - plus he loves icecream too).
May I suggest that you consider Rygel's human understudy Jonathan Hardy instead ( unless you do manage to work out a palatable deal for getting Rygel,in which case Mr. Hardy is part of the package anyway). Jonathan could not only be a good guest director but he is an awesome actor - make a great alien character or perhaps Vala's latest conquest?
Keep up the great blogging and just so you know this- most of us are not trolls.
Ellenrose
I think Joe's use of 'you're' was a deliberate play on the post he was replying to, which repeatedly used 'your' when it should have used 'you're'. I thought it was very clever of Joe, actually :-)
I also don't agree that only slashers want Sam off the show. I've seen plenty of noromos who've said they've had enough of her.
First off, everyone needs to chill out. Joe doesn't have to post any information, but he does. I would like to thank Joe for his dedication to the fans.
There seems to be a lot of people that just rip on him and the show. I know it is your right to complain about something you have no control about, but if you don't like the show, don't watch it. If you have all these great ideas, either submut a script, come up with your own show, or leave the real fans alone.
I happen to enjoy where both shows are going and don't care if Carter is on SG-1, Atlantis, or both. They are not just going to screw her over.
And enough about Jack. RDA is with his family after dedicating a lot of his life to 2 long running shows. Let him go and enjoy his family.
In response to "where is it written that there can be only four members of an SG Team?" You can only pay so many actors for a show. I'm sure if all you Jonas lovers would put some money together to pay extra actors, Joe could put them into a script. It's not like welfare where you get extra government money for each child you give birth to.
Fianlly, to Joe, keep up the good work and don't let these people get to you.
Ellenrose wrote: May I suggest that you consider Rygel's human understudy Jonathan Hardy instead ( unless you do manage to work out a palatable deal for getting Rygel,in which case Mr. Hardy is part of the package anyway). Jonathan could not only be a good guest director but he is an awesome actor - make a great alien character or perhaps Vala's latest conquest?
LOL Brilliant idea, Ellenrose! And Joe, you really should meet Jonathan Hardy, he's fan-rellin-tastic person, I had a chance to meet him and talk to him for a little while 2 years ago during Collectormania in UK and this little while was definitely worth twenty something hours long bus trip from Poland.
OMG... Mad Hamish careening about on a MALP is a sight to instil fear into the hardest of hearts. ;)
Of course, this being SCIFI, the roles of Cohen and his elderly horde will all be played by buff young twentysomethings. At least Coehn already has the skimpy clothing thing going for him. That'll play great with the demographics. ;)
Someone wrote:
>Oh yeah, she has her detractors. >All 15 of them over at Our >Stargate. "Our Stargate", where >every thread is about Sam Carter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sam Carter has been disliked by half of fandom for several years now.
The fourth most popular SG list, with nearly 3000 members, is 'Vocal
Minority' which is a protest list
against being spammed by the character of Sam.
Sam's been ridiculously over-hyped and thrust down our throats for years, in and out of the show.
Read the GW thread which shreds Ms
Tapping for remarks she made in a
UK Sci Fi 'zine that the Jack/Sam
relationship would never last.
Even amongst most Jack/Sam shippers, Sam is valued only for her relationship to Jack. And now
Jack has departed ... her character
has no point.
If she's appearing in both shows, she gets to sabotage two shows, instead of just one.
I hope she doesn't sign and takes the other job offer.
How times have changed!
Whatever happened to "TRUST TPTB"
that "True Fans" kept waving at
the Daniel fans when they dared
to protest?
Ok...everyone repeat after me...its only a tv show...its only a tv show....its only a tv show. Everyone needs to get a grip! Joe...I'll watch the show no matter what! Keep em coming!
Kat
Looks like the wisecrack about Our Stargate really hit close to home. I'll give you one thing, you've got both the "vocal" and "minority" part right. And, dollars to doughnuts, a goodly portion of those "3000" come back undelivered or get mailed to the same people. You're the Stargate Nazis. You want to exterminate everyone who disagrees with you, and you'll to greatly distatsteful lengths to do it.
Trust TPTB came about when they did good things, like boot Daniel. Don't trust TPTB came about when they did bad things, like bring Daniel back and add Vala. Where is the difficulty here?
Lord Iceman said...
First off, everyone needs to chill out. Joe doesn't have to post any information, but he does. I would like to thank Joe for his dedication to the fans.
What the hell is that? So because Joe does a blog we should all bow before the king and swallow the vile crap he is trying to sugar coat? Please. That is oh so stupid. I think we have a buyer for that bridge for sale in NYC. Can anyone say blind faith?
I don't have to like anything anyone says just because they are a 'suit' for the show. Also, Joe nice how you try to change the focus from AT being screw by saying you don't have a contract. Blog or don't blog. I don't care. Just don't screw AT because of the poor writing makes her character stale. She is what you write for her. AT is a great actress and can take iffy writing and make it great. But she can only work so many miracles.
Again,
If you have such great ideas, write your own show. If you don't like the show, don't watch it. I'm sure they don't need your viewership to sell comercials. And what exactly is all this vile crap that he is sugar coating. The show has been renewed and its contract negotiation time. Joe was just giving us a heads up. And I'm not saying you should bow down to him (that's a bit harsh), just realize what he is trying to do (put out a great show for what used to be great fans). I would like to see you respond to criticisms at your own job.
"If she's appearing in both shows, she gets to sabotage two shows, instead of just one".
"I hope she doesn't sign and takes the other job offer".
Mm how polite of you - I bet you have lots of friends.
You know its bad when people start making comments like that!
Joe you are a brave, brave man. I'm a bit distressed to hear you haven't been contacted yet for season 10. The show needs you.
Actually I was hoping that Pilot would be added to the cast. I hear Ronson could use the help on The Prometheus.
More to the point though, will be seeing Col. Pierce again anytime soon?
see www.amandatapping.com for the following statement....
HI Everyone;
I just wanted to say how great it was to meet those of you who were able to attend GABIT's event this past weekend. It was a fantastic event and I had a wonderful time.
The only negative thing to come out of the weekend is a rumour that needs to be put to rest. First of all, I have every intention of returning to Stargate next year. No, my contract has not been signed, but I fully expect that it will be soon. Yes, I have been offered the possibility of working on both SG-1 and Atlantis. To what extent still remains to be seen, but I will be doing a total of 20 shows or a full season. Am I happy about it? You betcha! Yes I have been offered another series but I will participate in it only if it they are willing to work around Stargate's schedule. Stargate starts as this series wraps up. If it can work, then great. If not, then I will not be doing the other series. Stargate is a wonderful series to work on and I have every intention of staying with it. I hope that this clears up any erroneous speculation.
Now back to GABIT. It was great! Thank you to everyone for your generosity. The gifts, the letters, the cards are so greatly appreciated. I hope you all had as wonderful a time as I did.
With much love,
Amanda
Hi Joe,
As much as I love Vala it seems obvious that this move is to make room for Vala while minimizing Carter's place on SG1. It makes sense. Vala has got to be so much more fun to write for than Carter.
Now Joe, I'd like to know the reason that the viewing audience wasn't told about what Jack is doing now. Don't say "to leave the door open..." because telling the viewers doesn't close the door for Jack's return. Is it that the contribution of Jack and RDA to the series and the devotion of his fans is not worthy of knowing his fate? Or is it that you think it doesn't matter to us? Or is that you don't care that it matters to us? Why the big secret? Why won't you tell the viewers? I'd like a direct answer to why you can't be bothered to say it onscreen? Why?
Oh my freaking goodness.
Honestly, why is there this need to prove how many people like or don't like Sam? What does it matter??? Same with any other character. Shouldn't the only thing that matters is whether or not you like the character? And, this is addressed to everyone sniping at each other on behalf or against any character on the show.
Please, read Shipperahoy's post from 10:06 pm. The part addressed to everyone. And, hopefully, maybe people will listen to it.
Dani347
Well, Joe, there's not much more I can say here that hasn't already been said. Just add my voice to the already deafening din that thinks that Carter heading to Atlantis for any number of episodes spells doom for Atlantis.
I'm an Atlantis fan. A really big one. And if Carter goes to Atlantis then despite any protestations you may have to the contrary, someone on Atlantis is going to get the short end of the stick. A very short end. Ronan, Teyla, Weir, Beckett--they all need to be developed a lot more. None of those characters are any different than when we first met them. Samantha Carter is such a huge presence in the Stargate Universe that she's bound to dominate any Atlantis story she's in. It's not a right or wrong thing. That's just the way it is. As alot of others have said, I can't help but get the impression that Carter's huge presence is the impetus for this proposed action in the first place. She does tend to overshadow the new characters on SG-1. But passing her off to Atlantis in the hope that Mitchell will look good if she isn't there is unfair to Atlantis and it's cast.
Carter belongs on SG-1. That's her show. She did help make it such a huge success. And the character deserves more respect. On SG-1, the cast gelled immediately. They were great. Things are off to a slower start on Atlantis, but they're still going ok. Throwing Carter in the mix can only hurt Atlantis. Sorry, but that's just how this concerned fan feels.
Christina Bernard
Sorry Joe, but Carter deserves a big arc on SG-1. Leave Atlantis like it is. It's working great. This sounds like a bad, bad idea.
A Poster wrote >>I think if you compare the Sam threads on GW vs. places like the Sony forum, you will find considerably less hate directed at other characters and actors at the Sam threads. No, really. Go look and compare.<<
I have looked at GW and at OS posts (though not Sony), and I've got to say it's pot meeting kettle for both comments on posters and their respective actors.
News flash for those saying unequivocally that they are the MAJORITY of fans, whether it be those for Vala, Sam, Daniel, Mitchell, Jack, Teal'c, Thor, or Landry. You are not the majority of Stargate audience. The majority do not go online, do not read/write fanfiction, are not engaged in the petty debates, and don't know what Jack's job is this year. How do I know this? Because until a few months ago, I was among this grouping. True others may agree with some or all of your opinions, still others may disagree. But nobody should be presuming to speak for all fans, nor should they presume somebody with a (gasp) differing opinion is automatically in an "opposing camp" ::rolleyes that there are opposing camps, geesh::
The above rant is not for reasonable people speaking their opinions about possible directions to the show and concerns about rumors (looking directly at Shipperahoy's reasoned posts), but at those who are airing new and old grievances in hysterical ranting and name calling.
For my HUMBLE opinion, which is only my own, not presuming to speak for others, the team is my favorite aspect of the show. Daniel's my favorite character, but I love Sam as a close second. Enjoy Teal'c and "new guy" is a welcome addition. Miss Jack, but am not clamoring for his return. Never cared for the J/S ship, but never got in a big huff about it one way or the other either. Not sure about Lam, I still miss Janet. Like Landry--but Hammond will always be THE General of SG1. Enjoy the Ori arc. Find Vala tolerable in measured doses. Oh yeah, and I adore Bill Lee.
Enjoy your ice cream Joe, and good luck on the new seasons (I'm sure you'll be back. :-)
Cheers to more reasonable comments. And leave any fandom baggage you might have at the door, thank you.
Anyway, just weighing in on the great Carter uproar. No, I don't think TPTB are intentionally trying to marginalize Carter. But I'm also not too sure that they realize that this latest plan will do exactly that. Atlantis and SG-1 are not one big 2 hour show every week. The shows weren't constructed to be that.
Yes, I think that putting Carter on Atlantis will inevitably detract from a number of Atlantis characters. As Joe himself said, Carter is a scientist, soldier, and established leader. Those are the skills she'd bring to Atlantis. That means that Mckay, Sheppard, Weir, and probably Teyla are going to take a back seat to Carter, at least some of the time. That's just the way it is.
My biggest fear is that this recent uproar is going to raise the hackles of the writers. I hope they don't take it as a challenge and set out to prove all of us short-sighted fans wrong.
I have never, ever seen a proposed story point so universally panned before. Reading online the past few days, it seems that no one, and I do mean no one, thinks that this is a good thing. The few comments that do tend to favor the idea are more in support of TPTB rather than in support of the idea. That's fine. TPTB need support; it must be pretty demoralizing to have a plan get attacked so enthusiastically from all corners of fandom.
And I don't think any of us need to be told that fandom encompasses a small percentage of Stargate fans. That's a given. The point is, online fandom is somewhat representative of the entire viewing audience. And I don't think that the producers are dense enough to believe that a plan so universally loathed will garner any more support from the non-online community than it does from the online one.
Anyway, like I said, I hope the producers take the criticism of this plan to heart. I hope they think about with clear heads, and not with their pride. I'd hate to see something so reviled by so many have to happen just so the TPTB can claim to have "won".
Judy
Booting AT so that CB can come on as female lead is a huge error. The level of storytelling has really gotten shoddy both here and atalantis. Fargate is the future. I just wish they changed the name of the show to reflect its less sophisticated mentality. although people already look at it as seaon 1-8 = good, season nine and ten = lowered expectations. I hate vala, i think she dominates eceryone and turns Daniel into her little side kick. And of course I come here and hear about some kind of space kid. I cant help myself so I look at spoilers nad now I'm worried and disappointed. Classic clichee storytelling. See what I mean.
Hi Joe!
I hope you stay on for Season Ten. You seem to have a true interest in what the online fans' think (both crazy and sane).
If you didn't draw the short straw a few years ago, and you weren't forced to be the PTB-Fan Middleman, more power to you. :) You're indeed a brave soul.
This series and this fandom can't afford to lose members of the original cast OR PTB, because that will be one more opportunity for SciFi to stick their grubby, little corporate hands in a series that YOU guys created and YOU guys fostered. If you're gone (or anyone else, for that matter), some other network croney comes in.
To think that this show's worldwide popularity was created LOOOONG before then-pathetic SciFi got its hands on it, and NOW they may want to screw with it is deplorable.
If the suppositions about Skiffy's meddling are true, then I'm sure you know what we're talking about. ;)
Don't you just love politics?! But then... That's the biz.
I'm glad you said something about AT and Sam in your original blog post and in the responses, as it needed to be said. And I sincerely hope that your genuine loyalty to a colleague doesn't end up backfiring on you. :( If so, let us know, and I'm sure the outcome will be very interesting for Skiffy.
Even though I've been less-than-pleased with the season thus far, I have to say that I still love the show. Thanks for that.
And like minigeek so eloquently said: If you have any leverage - any leverage, at all - in what goes down this next season, please let them know that a bunch of loyal crazies from the SG1 and the Atlantis front think this is a very, very, bad idea.
Atlantis really can't afford such a huge change like that, anyway. I really, really, REALLY like Sam, but it'd be a bad idea to bring her to Atlantis. We all know she'd be given the limelight. And hardcore Atlantis fans would be justifiably ticked.
Once again, AT/Sam would be a target of fresh, new hatred, and the fandom would be fractured even more - if that's even possible.
All of this insanity COULD HAVE been avoided way back at the end of Season Eight. Cameron Mitchell could have remained MM (Major Mitchell), and we wouldn't be here arguing today.
Well, we probably would. It'd just be over something else.
Peace, love and harmony,
the dancer of spaz
Um, Joe, you need to learn the difference between "whose" and "who's". It's quite simple really. "Who's" = "who is". So "congratulations to everyone who's accolades, critcism" doesn't actually make sense. I thought it might be a typo except you made the same mistake twice in your oh-so-funny blog.
Ok Joe, I'm going out on limb here and If I'm right, please let me know.
When RCC said that we really don't know what to do with Carter, maybe he should have amended that with--yet. Since no scripts are written for both shows (as of now).
Since you said that Carter is great in the science area, this leads (at least me) to believe that sooner or later the Ori/Wraith
are going to show up in both shows.
The only logical that Sam would crossover to SGA to give all concerned all the knowledge that she knows in this part of the galaxy.
Now in return, she comes back with what shes learned while in that part of the galaxy.
Now I think it's assumed by all that since she's going to be outranking/overshadowing the existing members of SGA. I think that the writers can think of a way to deal with this.
I know that the Daniel, Mitchell, and Teal'c fans all want these characters to go to Atlantis. But in the end, it isn't cultural skills, military might, and Jaffa
strength that will achive the demise of both evils in the shows.
Now if MW was right, I can see all this culminating to the movie where
this all takes place.
It's applied/theorical/practical science that makes up the Sci and also it's the storytelling in the Fi part.
I hope through all this all chracters development continue to grow beyond where they are now.
Thank you.
LaCroix
I have to admit to making my own assumptions about this whole deal with Amanda. I love Sam, and the show would lose something huge for me if she were gone. But obviously both Amanda and the SG creative talent have decisions to make, and there's no use getting upset until they're a done deal.
One thing I'd really like to bring up though, is the hope that you guys will take both Vala and Sam and give us a good friendship out of it. Don't let the opportunity pass you by. We know SG can write a great friendship. We know this because we had/have Jack and Daniel. Yet the few scenes that Sam and Vala have had together... there was really... nothing.
These are two very different female characters on different sides of the fence really. It's an ideal friendship made to order. And how cool would it be to have Sam get along with Vala while she still drives Daniel nuts? Look, all I'm saying is that there's this really popular belief out there that Stargate can't write good female characters, nor can they write 2 female characters on a show at one time and have them both be dynamic and strong. Why not? Give us an interesting Sam and Vala dynamic. The rest would take care of itself.
Please?
JK
One thing I'd really like to bring up though, is the hope that you guys will take both Vala and Sam and give us a good friendship out of it. Don't let the opportunity pass you by. We know SG can write a great friendship. We know this because we had/have Jack and Daniel. Yet the few scenes that Sam and Vala have had together... there was really... nothing.
These are two very different female characters on different sides of the fence really. It's an ideal friendship made to order. And how cool would it be to have Sam get along with Vala while she still drives Daniel nuts? Look, all I'm saying is that there's this really popular belief out there that Stargate can't write good female characters, nor can they write 2 female characters on a show at one time and have them both be dynamic and strong. Why not? Give us an interesting Sam and Vala dynamic. The rest would take care of itself.
Please?
JK
I second this. And a great start would be Sam apologizing to Vala for this "backup singer" comment (Beachhead episode). It was nasty and completely unnecessary.
Hey Joe,
Short and Sweet: I'd love to see Amanda play Sam in both the Milky way and the Pegasis! Make the most of my Favorite character :D
OH and please take a look of my Cartoon of Sam, Elizbeth and Teyla in Atlantis, hope you'll get a laugh: [more pics on my web link]
http://storage.msn.com/x1pi9AUjD9T4AWZRmJFChP_xQgJvq2NDJo_UCbmWIrFScPxyVdgZ5gWyhinc47JZkSAjGgfJB4l6iDJMj-Y6ZZZYAeQ76eao50AbAqHXBBtpeeX2OhCtPp8yyQQEaIDTHfobdy9CvWlOOWXtPAqMld-xg
http://storage.msn.com/x1pi9AUjD9T4AWZRmJFChP_xQgJvq2NDJo_UCbmWIrFScN8WZjLeEq5-Wu8WntIwrEkEDrYgo86V3LNlPOmcMjK90aYN1Xb839sGWJyavGPK_3l3JlVAXRK5hvX01i-0cO9WeUhhUIsXZiNnVl53_HgAw
I'm seeing Torri, Rainbow and Alexis this Sunday (5th Nov) at the FSF con in Sydney :) WOOO!! Too bad I'm so broke I can'g get pics or Signatures! *cries* LOL OH and in the Anime Department, my Friends got me watching 'Naruto', I'd like to see some others - do you reccomend anything?
-Kc
Joe, your doing an incredible job. I loved s9 much more then I thought I would. Though I want to see more of Mitchell and more of Vala. Claudia has been an excellent addition and I would hate to see a talent like that go to waste. With that said, I feel Tapping should be restricted to Sg1. Atlantis is still finding their own ground and having Carter cross-over I feel would become dangerous terriority.
I'm so jazzed that Sg-1 will be back for a tenth season. I'm still bouncing in anticipation for the reason of this one. I can't wait to see how Mitchell's character unfolds. I must admit that I'm also more than a little curious about the familial tension going on with Landry and Lam. What exactly is the story there? As far as Carter visiting Atlantis goes...this I gotta see. McKay would be all goo goo eyed over Carter and she'd be all goo goo eyed over the fancy Atlantian/Alterran/Ancient tech. Character development and dynamics. That's what I'm all about. Well, that and the gadgets. Gotta love the gadgets.
Well Joe, congratulations. Your efforts at spinning this thing as some kind of slight against yourself and the other producers and your attempt to shame fans for being vociferous in their opinions has seemingly worked. I hope you take away from this that Sam on Atlantis is a terrible idea, but I doubt it. And, looking at the poll on the front page, you've bamboozled more people than I ever thought such shallow propaganda could. Just goes to show you how many sheep there really are out there. Oh yes, trust those powers that be.
Anyone else find it funny that the commenter whinging over a punctuation error in the blog entry has made a spelling error of their own?
:-p
Joe said:
"There's no reason why she still couldn't travel off-world with the team (same old, same old), AND put in some appearances in the Pegasus galaxy as well (like she did in the upcoming Grace Under Pressure)."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sam Carter nothing more than a hallucination? That's not the actual character doing anything significant, it's Rodney's version of Sam Carter.
In the words of Jack O'Neill "bad example."
Yet I agree with you, I think it would go a long way to restoring Sam Carter as a fully fleshed out character to give her stories on both Stargate and Atlantis. She has 9 years of experience in back engineering alien technology and devising stratgies involved in defense systems.
I hope AT and Carter get the chance to do this amazing thing for her character. Leave the SamnJack/ other romance stuff on the cutting room floor and make the stories about Carter as a 'formidable warrior' and brilliant scientist again. I think she could show them a thing or two about kicking Wraith butt!
Joe I give you credit for taking the heat from some fans like you are. There are pros and cons to having such devoted fans to your show!
Wanted to say I love Atlantis the way it is, but trust you and TPTB enough to make good decisions in adding or re-arranging cast members. This is, after all, your specialty - not mine.
And to those nit-picking grammer.. good greif. This is a blog, not a script!
Yeah, I know nobody wants to hear this again, but these polls on Gateworld really aren't very accurate. Joe, you seem to cry about it when it hurts the chances of a favorable outcome, but when the poll is skewed toward what you want to hear, you seem to take it to heart.
Any accurate poll needs to be a blind poll. People cannot be allowed to know how others are voting prior to casting their own votes. People will always tend to vote with the percieved majority. Like it or not, too many people want to have "picked the winner". Once these polls get over 200 votes or so, every vote thereafter is most likely biased. You're not recieving an objective sample.
Hi joe. i'm a worried Teyla fan who thinks Carter being on atlatnis will be bad. Teyla is not developed very much now. if Carter comes to atlantis for some episodes she won't have much chance to develop as part of the team. AR-1 should be a team. not just people who sometimes work together.
I'm fairly confident you'll still be around next year, Joe, but if not, give me a heads-up on where you WILL be and I'll settle in to wherever and start voicing complaints and criticisms so that you don't get homesick. ;)
If you're going for the reiki training, though, that may take a bit more thinking. You aren't close enough for me to complain about your awesome lack of healing powers. lol.
Oh, and as for the Grammasite attacking the typos... there's a wealth of possible discussion/complaint/praise points within Joe's blog entries. Grammar just doesn't rate very high on the scale. Be glad Joe hasn't been infected with the mispeling vyrus. *shiver*
I have to say, having Tapping on Atlantis seems to be only a plus to me. But then again, I'm also one of those Bring Back Jonas Quinn types, so I'm probably just the minority.
I think my one real fear is if Samantha Carter moves to Atlantis on a permantent basis. I'm fine if she comes for a visit, because I believe that that could bring in some very interesting stories, not to mention the Atlantis team will get to see a slightly different side to Rodney then they are used to, not to mention the science division seeing someone besides Zelenka going toe to toe with him.
I've missed Carter a bit in what has been shown in season 9, and to have a bit more of her in the spot light might be nice.
So long as her one true home remains on earth in the SGC. Atlantis is it's own show, with it's own characters. But, as I said, I actually like crossovers, lets the characters visit a bit.
I trust you and the other Powers That Be to make good choices on the show, and go with not only what makes the fans happy, but what, more importantly, makes a good story.
To Teal'c ranter:
The answer is:
TPTB are too scared of CJ to cause trouble for him.
Joe,
As a Fan of Stargate the TEAM (yes even my beloved scary teal'c) I am quite upset by the pushing aside of Carter for another less respectable character. And I am not very convinced by the attempt to "comfort" us.
Basically everything you said seems to indicate that what we fear is true : Carter will NOT be a full time member of SG-1 (so we presume Vala will) and instead she will be a guest character on two different shows. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad idea IMHO. But I know I am just one fan. But I bet my off button will not be the only one that is hit the day this event occurs.
Also, as a guest character on Atlantis I can see many, many problems. I love Carter but I also am growing to love the cast of Atlantis.
If Carter shows up I assume she is the most experienced and the most "in the know". Which means that the Atlantis team will by necessity look less experienced and less "in the know". Unless ofcourse you bring Carter over and diminish her character by making her seem less experienced and less "in the know". Which would also upset me. So you see long term it could be a problem. 2 or 3 crossovers probably could work... half time in Atlantis and half time in SG-1 would not work IMHO.
Also changing ATs status from full time to recurring just to accomodate "a hot babe" is as insulting to the Carter character as it would be to Teal'c if you decided Istha would make a better SG-1 team member then Teal'c. After all one could argue that since Jack isnt around anymore Teal'c doenst have anything to do (no ping pong, no boxing) why should he want to stay on earth? And well it seems Ishta meets the qualifications of the new SG-1 team (alien hot babe).
But that would be silly to change out CJ for a hot babe, he would never stand for it... Just thought I would let you know since you (well someone on the writing staff, maybe not you specifically) seem to think Carter shouldnt be insulted by anything. I mean if Jack left the SGC and then came back, I am pretty damn sure he would not blithely agree to be anyones 2IC. ... not to mix two annoyances...
BTW Im far more annoyed by the "cool intelligent professional female" being replaced by the "theiving, lieing bimbo" then by the "more expeienced military professional" being replaced by the "far, far, far, far less experienced military professional", but I am still annoyed by it.
AGateFan (well maybe not in the future, but we will see)
I was joking around with a fellow fan the other day about SG changing it's name. Then I saw the RC article on changing the name and freaked out.
But in thinking about it (and yes, that is a terrifying thing for me to do)you all should have changed the name. You would have saved yourselves the hassle of explaining 99.99% of the obvious.....
But then your blogs would be boring, wouldn't they?
Hey Joe.
People sure have been getting bent out of shape regarding S10 and we haven't even finished with S9. ; )
I must admit I was a bit concnerned about the whole Carter on Atlantis bit. I just don't want to lose her from SG1. I just love her interaction with Daniel and Tealc. Besides We already lost Jack off the Team. Change maybe good but it is also scary. I guess, beside calmly expressing my opinion, I will just have to trust that you guys know what you are doing.
So if Carter gets to go shouldn't Daniel be allowed to go as well? It is only fair. : ) : ) : )
I was initially not happy with the casting of Ben Browder but I have grown to like him. I think Vala makes an interesting addition to Stargate but only as a semi-recurring character.
Isn't LOST amazing?! Great characters and a great mystery. LOST, NCIS, Stargate & Atlantis are the only shows I really make the time to watch.
Thanks for hanging out here with us.
Some anonymous person said:
And to those nit-picking grammer.. good greif. This is a blog, not a script!
It's grief, not grief. There, now we're going after the bad spellers. HAHAHA! And hey, they make errors in the scripts, too... ;)
I'm honestly surprised that Vala is going to be on SG1 further. Anise was scuttled for nothing more than being exactly what Vala is today. Fans were so up in arms about the "sexing up" of the show that producers canned it. Yet suddenly everyone is OK with Vala strutting around far, far more sluttily than Anise ever did. I guess it represents the difference between Showtime and Scifi, between the formerly mature audience and the children we have now, and illustrates the producers view of the newer, shinier SG1. It's all very depressing.
Are there any plans to make a decent layout for this page? Where the text actually reflows as is the intent of HTML and so that one isn't forced to scroll back and forth for each damn line!
Here's something to think about while were all discussing AT, MS hasn't signed on yet. Any spin on that?
Hey Joe, love the blog! Especially the comments :D.
Wanted to say..you should watch House. Best Medical show ever, and it would be an awesome addition to your collection.
Keep up the good work.
The Turkey
Thanks for posting JM. I feel somewhat reassured that AT as well as the other cast members are indeed as valued as by TPTB as I thought they were. Believe it or not, some of us realize you guys can't write to please all the fans. But I, for one, hope you do realize that one of the main attractions for many of us is the *team* element--meaning the bond that has developed between the "big 3" (and hopefully what we'll see develop with Mitchell). I hope in our flying off the handle a bit in defense of Sam Carter and AT, AT doesn't take any flak. My sense is she was by no means whining, just attempting to explain why she couldn't comment on what was in store for her in S10. *We* took it from there. And we all know how rational the internet fan community can be, right? Oh, and I love the Rygel comment. It's just like him to have unreasonable demands. He just wants out of that box he's stored in. :)
jckfan55
I think if any of the original cast, Tapping, Shanks, or Judge, left the show, then they'd have a really hard time keeping viewers. That said, I think it would be a rather delicious bit of irony if Shanks bailed on the show. After having RDA keep the show going for so long, to the benefit of so many, Shanks leaving now would be...what?
Who ever talked about the sexing-up stuff?
Some of us like Vala because she is FUNNY, and she has a good chemistry with Daniel. The Sexy part is just a bonus.
What vile crap? This vile crap.
1)Instead of developing an indepenent character for Carter they used her as a shipper for O'Neill. Now O'Neill is gone and the writers are like "Um, what do we do now. What love interest can we create on the show. Sex sells right? Oh, by the way what do we do with Carter now. I am coming up blank here"
2)Her character is stale it is the writers fault.
3)Why are there not any female writers because they can get past the whole organ thing and actually write for a female character without having to do the sex thing. Imagine the possiblities.
4)While AT is off you know taking care of her newborn they develop a new sex interest for the show. Daniel and Vala and they saw that it was good and rested on the 7th day.
5)Well now we have the whole sex thing straightened out what do we do with Carter? Well lets ship her off to SGA and have her develop a sexual tension between her and Rodney. (Oppss theres that organ thing again. Which is why we need a FEMALE writer because the boys just are not cutting it. They cannot get past their penis/testicles. Believe me. I am a RN . I know these things.)
6)Ok so now we know we should get rid of Carter to make room for Vala because she is just so much more an exciting character than Carter. God knows we cannot keep two women on the same show. I mean who does that. Its not like Vala and Carter could play off of each other. Play off the guys. Etc. I mean that would be boring right. Right. :blink:
7)We are going to get rid of Carter. Opps I mean she is too valuable to be underutilized just on SG1 so we will tell the fans that she will be used on both series because why have such a fabulious character in the background on some episodes. The fans are dumb and will believe everything we say because I write a blog and am god right?
Is that enough vile crap for you yet? Because if needed I could go on and on.
Why can it not be Vala, Carter, Mitch, Teal'c and Daniel. Why is it that to have another woman on a show another one has to vacate all or part of her slot. I think the dynamics could be so much better with the 5 and not 4. Think about it Joe.
Ok, the news item just said that Tapping is pretty much onboard the shows.
Whether on one show or another remains to be seen...or both. Who knows.
No one, that's what.
Still want a better bad guy than all powerful ori...an I still want Jack...now, Rygel...I can see that he could be a pain...but he's worth it pay the puppet.
I'll admit back when Atlantis debuted I saw this coming and said so...and everything has been proven true and happened each time a show airs....that's hollywood folks..even when it's in vancouver
Boy, Joe, you really have a way of pushing people's buttons...even when you don't mean to. It is obviously a testament to the popularity of the show that people feel so strongly about the characters. And as much as people rant and rave, they keep coming back for more, which is a testament to the writers and TPTB. Personally, I can't wait to see what's in store for the second half of this season and if you guys are truly screwing things up as badly as some people are saying here, then you are hiding it very well - SEASON 10 baby!!
I'd watch the show if the main character was a lip-syncing monkey...just as long as Daniel doesn't go anywhere....or maybe I should save this comment for a future blog...never mind!
Daniel IS the lip-syncing monkey. Everyone else is a real character.
As a big fan of Amanda Tapping, I don’t buy your argument that AT will get more screen time by appearing on both Stargates. There seems to be some fan concerns that their favorite Atlantis character is not given enough screen time already. Putting AT on the show will just cut into their time. Are you going to start filming near a black hole where you can stretch out the time?
You already have two scientists on Atlantis who have been able to solve complex problems using science. On SG-1, without Carter, you ended up with some nerd who couldn’t disconnect Valla and Daniel from the communications device. You ended up having to use brute force to throw it through the Stargate. That was almost as lame as having someone who flunked fencing defeat a holographic knight in a swordfight.
What happened to the solutions that used clever plot points instead of brute force. Such as, blowing up the replicators by using a superior ship as a decoy. Then, force them into hyperspace where their shields don’t work. With increased screen time for Carter on SG-1, I believe the writers would again use clever plot devices.
I think TPTB are just trying to sex up the show by using Claudia Black more (remember Vanessa Angel). I started watching the show “Las Vegas” because James Caan was in it. I continue to watch it because it’s got some really great T&A. But T&A in a show about Las Vegas is not only warranted, it’s required. I watch both Stargates for the Sci Fi not the Sci T&A. And looking at other fan comments, I am not alone. Please don’t ruin my favorite show by adding a Bimbo to the formula. It detracts from the storylines and is degrading to women.
someone said -
//Thanks for posting JM. I feel somewhat reassured that AT as well as the other cast members are indeed as valued as by TPTB as I thought they were. Believe it or not, some of us realize you guys can't write to please all the fans. But I, for one, hope you do realize that one of the main attractions for many of us is the *team* element--meaning the bond that has developed between the "big 3" (and hopefully what we'll see develop with Mitchell).//
i'd like to make a statement on this, seeing as i'm sure i've already been labeled as one of those 'crazy sam fans'.
i wanted sam to lead only because the writers gave it to me. i never expected sam to be leading any team, let alone sg1. so my desire for it (and for more of it) is because they gave me the desire.
i'm not going to go into the reasons why i think mitchell was made the 'permanent' leader, but i'd like it to be known that --
whether i wanted sam to return and get her team commander statis back, i would have settled for her 'not' getting it IF there had been a scene where it was brought up. like, mitchell offering the team back to her and her declining (for whatever reasons). or, landry offering it back to her and sam declining. like i said, i'd prefer (big time) her getting the team back, but if it wasn't going to happen, all i wanted was an explanation (on the show) for why *she* didn't want it back, and a good reason why she wasn't being offered it back. (the co-leadership thing is working, seeing as i'm seeing sam *and daniel and teal'c* leading the team as much as mitchell is).
mitchell was given the team (that had no members) when they were in peacetime. all the biggie threats were eliminated. so, to me, it would make sense that when sam returned because of the ori threat, either mitchell or landry would offer it back to her. and if the writers wanted her to decline, at least they showed that the issue was important enough to be addressed.
why am i bringing this all up? because if the show would have addressed the issue to begin with, i would have eventually been able to let go on my dreams (for sam) and settled into mitchell being the leader.
i don't feel i'm being greedy when all i've ever wanted was for sam to be treated with respect. i'm not asking/demanding that sam be given the moon and stars - i'd just like to see her keep what was hers beforehand. and if it's going to be taken away from her, i'd like a really good explanation of why (on the show).
now, the whole issue of sam suddenly being unwritable...
off the top of my head, here's a few ideas for sam:
*sam leading sg1.
*sam's relationship with cassie.
*sam's relationship with jack. whether he's not around or not, it could still be happening and be brought up once in a while.
*bring back replicarter. have it be that oma ascended her while she was ascending daniel. that alone would give amanda a lot to work with.
*bring back the jolinar storyline (jolinar's memories, the power to use the healing device, etc).
*explore the sam-vala possibilities. they both were prior hosts after all.
*make sam a latent telepath (your idea, joe, whether it was a joke or not :p). this might connect her to the ori storyline more than anyone.
*sam gets wounded badly, possibly having a permanent disability.
i could go on, but the point is, look how easy it was for me (being a sam fan) to come up with them.
sally :)
Joe...
I don't think Blogging is a competition... you're funny though.
Can I borrow some Anime?
cheers to the best dressed man in the Bridge. - RSF
Aawwww, leave it to rsf to be all sweet during a WAR. :D
We miss ya, man BIG TIME! Hope life is going well! ;)
~ the dancer of spaz
Judy wrote:
The point is, online fandom is somewhat representative of the entire viewing audience. And I don't think that the producers are dense enough to believe that a plan so universally loathed will garner any more support from the non-online community than it does from the online one.
I disagree that online fandom is somewhat representative of the entire viewing audience. Most of the viewing audience doesn't have those really strong opinions; if they did, they would be spending their time online voicing their strong opinions.
Some viewers may not care for the ship (like my sister), but it doesn't destroy the show for them. They aren't glad that Jack is gone because it means no more ship (like some online fans). I think most people watch it, enjoy it and if they don't like it, they don't watch. I don't think most viewers in the nononline community get jealous that Jack pays more attention to Daniel than Carter, or to Carter than Daniel. I don't think most offline viewers sit around and see slash between Jack/Daniel or Daniel/Mitchell.
I really think online fans take the show much more seriously, obviously, than the average viewer; that online fandom in their views is no more representative of the general viewing audience than the NRA is of the average American.
Bubba
I made the comment elsewhere that it is interesting there are no women writers on SG-1 anymore, and I believe that this problem with the Sam Carter character is a consequence of the absence of women writers.
1) None of the current writers seemed to think it was a problem, or at least incredibly sexist, that Carter led the SG-1 team for a year, and then unbelievably and quietly becomes second in command the next year. Wouldn't it have been much more interesting to have Mitchell join the SG-1 and have to deal with his own issues about being second in command under the command of a woman?
2)It was pretty juvenile on the part of the writers to introduce a female character to bring "sex appeal" to a sci-fi show. Somehow I think if there were women writers the Vala character would have had, well, more character.
3) Since Amanda Tapping is the only "major" actor on the show who is female, it was just incredibly stupid from a public relations perspective to leave her hanging in terms of her new contract. She should have been the first to be approached and the writers should have had realistic ideas about improving her character. Instead, she has to contact the producers herself, and gets told, "we don't know what to do with Sam Carter."
Maybe TPTB are thinking about this and considering hard who will be writers for the next season.
Damn. A hoverchair would've looked great in the gate room. Damn Rygel's inability to work with ex-s.
Love ya, Joe, you make me laugh. And I wonder the same thing about Lost...are they genuises with BIG IMPORTANT PLANS or just really really stoned?
Hum.
Conundrum.
Oh, yeah. Remember, we're crazy fans. Take us with a grain of salt.
See-ya.
My opinion on Vala (and Anise):
Anise was brought on looking like no other Tok'ra before or since. Who dresses like that wearing tripe, for crying out loud? Plus the love square was just bizarre.
Vala, like the Goa'uld, dresses flashy. I was concerned seeing the preseason still shots of the sexing up of SG1, but it fits her vampish character.
I think Vala can be complex. She is not the paragon of virtue, she should not be trusted farther than you can throw her, but yet she does seem to have a bit of heart, she's not entirely selfish, she's a survivor, she's smart, and she's a great fighter.
That said, I don't want her to be part of the SG-1 team. She lies, cheats, and steals. She is a rogue. A charming, amusing rogue, but not part of the classic hero unit. She is Daniel's Maybourne.
I fear being a permanent part of the cast will make her lose her edge. She will either become too toned down, or become grating.
And I love the D/V banter, but would not want to see anything further down the romance trail. (note to Joe WHEN you return to writing next year ;-) the sex jokes do get old. To paraphrase Vala herself: "Not everything she says NEEDS to be innuendo.")
I think there's room for two...even three (poor ignored Lam) strong female characters on SG1. Heck, I'd love to see more development of the strong female characters of SGA. Just things to keep in mind as you boys toss out ideas in the writing room.
No idea for what to do with Sam? Well, if you hadn't screwed her and Amanda Tapping out of command she'd be the leader of SG1. Mitchell would be learning from the best for his story. This is what happens when you use so little foresight when plotting the show. So much for not writing to be the last season.
See that's just it. If anything the first five eps proved that the writers cant' come up with anything welse for vala than innuendo and jokes. And if you think there's a diff between Anise and Vala then you're right. You could logically put Anise in a story. You've gotta use the jaws of life to pop the door and implant vala.
I'm a hardcore Atlantis fan if there is such a thing it's my favourite show on tv. I love all the characters although Sheppard is my absolute favourite.
I hate the idea of Sam on Atlantis. We are just getting to know the characters and if Sam came over she'd take center stage obviously and then the Atlantis characters would be pushed into the background. We get plenty of Sam on SG1 and there she belongs.
Please give the Atlantis characters a chance they are all wonderful. I especially love the Shep/McKay snarkiness and would miss that.
Not commenting particular on any of your blog postings, but rather on all of them and the series. I love the show, so this is only meant as constructive criticism:
1) Moebius - I was surprised I actually kinda liked that episode, but please don't do one like that again. Yes, it was fun to see Ra and the AU SG-1 (again), but it used the dreaded cosmic reset button just to get a ZPM. There are hundreds of good stories you could have told without introducing an all-powerful time travel device. A story is always more interesting if you have to live with the consequences. That's why SG-1 probably never got a sarcophagus for a prolonged period of time. I hope this was just your way of saying: We now know when you use 1 timeship two timelines die -- so we won't be doing it again. If you ever come back to revisit Moebius and say "Hey, X changed back then, too." you're likely to disappoint lots of fans.
2) I hope you seize the opportunity to use the departure of RDA to have more realism in the command chain. Yes, he was a great O'Neill for almost 7 seasons, but his ineptitude as a General and his excessive joking in later seasons were too much. I love the humor on the show (don't let it get as gritty as Galactica -- both great shows, but one desperate show each week is enough), but please keep it down to situations where a sensible person wouldn't realize it would start an intergalactic war or get them court-martialed. Vala is a good way out there (just like Maybourne was for a while), because she can't get court-martialed, but friendly banter like with Baldwin's team in Heroes can work just as well. Similarly fanboy-ish and grating was the whole "Steve is told about the gate" storyline, please keep the melange of realism and weird alien stuff, and don't turn it into weird logic and aliens.
3) I have a feeling the pacing on a lot of SG-1-shows is off a little. Often the ending is too short. I'm not a professional writer, so it's hard to put this in words, but many episodes could stand having a proper wrap-up, while others (harumph, Moebius) build up with so many cool locations and characters and then don't make the most of them (there could have been more Ra in this, maybe even some of the revolution, at the cost of some of the early "funny SG-1 scenes").
4) More espionage and infiltration please. Not *by* SG-1, *of* SG-1. There's still some snakes left, and this aspect of them hasn't really been used since the first half of S2. Before the Goa'uld really go out the window, why not show us the two last open questions: How a Goa'uld infiltrates Earth, and how that stuff with the Queens really works (biologically and socially, i.e. why aren't the queens more powerful, why do they depend on their males etc.)
5) Personal wish: Any plans for musically and directorially (is that a word?) going more in the direction of the movie and the pilot? A few more pans and pulls and some more music would'a been nice. That said, I haven't seen S9 yet, so maybe you already fulfilled that wish?
6) Personal wish: More archaeology. Evolution, Memento, The First Ones, The Curse, The Tomb ... even The Torments of Tantalus. More good stuff like that. In the movie, that was half of Stargate. They dig, they discover. It's fun to see the past reinterpreted as the future, but right now it's only names.
And yeah, I think they're gonna have you back. Just make sure JMS doesn't apply for your job ;-)
Keep rattling the bars Joe - this one could hit 600!!!
Kia ora all. I've been reading the great blogs and this comment in particular caught my eye "...I demand that Teal'c/CJ to be the center of a inter-fandom war.."
It made me wonder where the Walter supporters are. Haven't seen anything to reassure us that this foundation cast member - and well-deserved newly promoted Master Sgt has made it through!
Re the Sam debate, first reactions are that it feels like an elegant solution to a writers' challenge - how to keep two strong female leads alive, ie Vala and Sam, and give them both a fair suck of the sav (as they say in these parts).
I can't picture Vala in Pegasus (well actually I can but that's a very different scenario!), and so giving Sam a chance to shine in that galaxy, while still keeping a high profile in our part of the universe, could be a nice solution. Interesting to picture the Sam dynamics with McKay - they were great fun when last they met.
The community at Atlantis is almost village like, so its easier to imagine creating different combinations amongst the leading characters as may be required for a storyline, whereas SG1 is a 4-person team at its heart. Just my opinion, no offence intended :)
What about Da'rgo ?
He should join SG-1 too....
It would be easy to spin:
-Oma Dasala helped him ascend
-The Nox brought him back to life
-The Asgard beamed him up just in time
-Or... The Furlings saved him!
And if bring Da'rgo back we just have to bring Chi into the show
And could we please bring Crais back...
lmao!
Keep up the good work!
-Jeremy
If Sam can come over to Atlantis and is given major storylines how would you SG1 fans feel if one of the Atlantis characters came over and took a major role in a lot of SG1 eps pushing Daniel and Sam into the background.
*sigh* You know I love Amanda, I think she's a wonderful actress who deserves to do great things but the character of Carter has been used, abused and quite frankly ruined in the last few seasons. She went from this kick ass independent woman in the USAF to this pining after her CO, wishy washy, no direction in her life woman and OHMYGOD it was painful to watch. I hate that a character I loved has been turned into one that I don't at all care about anymore. I stopped watching SG1 this season after the character came back.
However I adore Atlantis, the characters rock, the scripts are great (despite the ocassional complaint) and I wait anxiously every week for it to come on. The very idea that Carter might be crossing over with the show to take a 'decisive role' for a few episodes here and there is horrifying. I don't like the Carter character, she's part of the reason I stopped watching SG1 and I just cannot express how upset I am at the idea of her suddenly popping up in the Atlantis universe.
When the spin off began we heard many MANY times that there would be MINIMAL crossovers, that you might see an SG1 character once or twice on Atlantis but that Atlantis was its own show--what the hell happened to that???? Atlantis is STILL its own show...we don't need SG1 crossovers! Frankly the chance of it happening has many Atlantis fans upset. And I know that you really--or at least from you blogs--don't care about what the fans think and that you're going to do whatever the hell you want but maybe you should take into consideration the fact that many times Atlantis has received higher ratings than SG1, the fact that more and more fans of SG1 are leaving that show behind for Atlantis, and that bringing in characters from said show that these fans left behind is honestly going to have them wanting to tune out. GOD! Stop freaking messing with a good thing!! We don't need nor do we want Carter, or any of the other characters from SG1 for that matter on Atlantis, the actors you've got now are doing a bloody brilliant job as it is, they don't need a big name from SG1 trying to steal the spotlight!
Leave the characters from SG1 ON SG1 and let the characters on Atlantis continue to make us love them. Don't do to Atlantis what you did to SG1--the show rocks AS IT IS--If it ain't broke don't frelling try to fix it!
Congrats Joe to be a Head of Sam Carter's Church...
Now my question is: what about the REAL HEART AND SOUL of the show, who at the moment is THE ONLY LINK to the original Stargate Movie - DANIEL JACKSON. Don't underestimate Daniel and Michael Shanks' fans. He deserves to be the main character in season 10. Daniel Jackson's journey isn't finished yet. But you're probably too blind to see it.
Joe, are you open to ideas for developments characters could undergo next season? If so, where could we post these?
Mmmm its all me me me-- I want MY character to be the "soul" of SG-1 Etc. We're only halfway through season 9 and yet people are getting worked up about season 10. Yes we have the lowdown from Amanda - but until all contracts are signed and made official then nothing is set in stone - so far it's all in the air - so until something a little more solid is mentioned then I see no point in having a seizure about which character does what and on which show. Besides there is always someone who won't like what TPTB do. If I were a fan who'd just discovered the internet then I would be horrified about something (my friends were at Gabit at the weekend) appears to have been taken out of context. Get some perspective - it is not life or death and changing our favourite tv show(for better or worse) won't kill us.
Wait and see. we might be surprised
Thanks for responding to the Sam/AT situation. I'm also glad that AT made a statement too. I am very happy to hear that she will be returning in season 10! It is a relief.
I am hoping that this idea of being in both shows really means that AT will continue to be a main lead in SG-1 as usual, and make several appearances in Atlantis. SG-1 would not be the show I love without Sam Carter as a key and central character. I would have preferred that she command SG-1 in season 9 (and 10), but that idea just seems to be glossed over. Please note that I like Mitchell (and BB of course)--I just wish the writers would have taken the opportunity to do something interesting between Mitchell and Carter in regard to the leadership issue.
I also hope that the writers take advantage of exploring the Sam/Vala dynamic -- it has alot of potential. And I would love to see Sam over in Atlantis, but just on occasion when the storyline warrants it. I agree that Sam's interactions with McKay, Weir, Sheppard and Teyla have great potential too, if done occasionally.
Thanks for having your blog.
Chocdoc
Joe,
As an Atlantis fan I am begging you: please please PLEASE do not ship Sam Carter to the Pegasus Galaxy! Just keep her on SG1 with Vala, there's some great potential there.
RE: #6
And what exactly do those of us who aren't big Carter fans get out of this?? We stop watching SG1 to get away from the character only to have you bring her in for possible 'decisive roles' on the show we actually DO watch? How is that at all fair to those of us who have given our whole hearted support to SGA and its FANTASTIC characters?
You're quite willing to squash the worry of those Carter fans scared they might not get to see more of their favorite character on SG1 but not at all sympathetic to those who would prefer she stayed right where she bloody well is.
Are the fans who agree with you the only ones that matter?
And for those commenting about people being upset about season 10/season 2 when the current seasons aren't even over yet? Personally...I'd like to know well before hand if Carter is joining the ranks of the Atlantis personnel even for a handfull of episodes so that I can tune out. It's nice to be able to prepare for utter disappointment and I WILL be disappointed if she's getting a recurring spot in S3 of Atlantis because I do NOT like the character as much as I love Amanada.
Bravo SG writers if you decide to do this--you've managed to ruin both of my favorite shows. ::applause::
Joe, I think it's clear that when AT's remarks were taken out of context, someone must have called her to quell fans.
Yet it appears that with MS's current statement from his people, it seems that no one has called him to make a statement.
Is there a double standard here at work? Seems so to me.
Anonymous said:
Yet it appears that with MS's current statement from his people, it seems that no one has called him to make a statement.
---
Why on earth should they be calling? Contract negotiations are supposed to be private between the actor, the agent and the employers. All the current statement put out by Michael's publicist was to do was to quell the rumours that MS was up for a major role that may effect him being on SG. His being a free agent at the moment just means that he hasn't signed, probably NO-ONE has yet... negotiations are still ongoing. Don't forget that last year, you didn't hear that Browder had signed until Dec 15th and didn't hear about Michael until the week after. So until all the negotiations are out of the way and they sign...they are ALL free agents!
Kas
Carter on Atlantis BAD!!!
Carter on SG-1 GOOD!!!
Carter leading SG-1, well, that's just logical. And we can't have that.
Hey, maybe Ben Browder won't sign on for season 10. That'd be cool. Then things would make sense again.
Hey, maybe Ben Browder won't sign on for season 10. That'd be cool. Then things would make sense again.
Well, here's hoping that he does...loving the adventures and the addition of Ben, Beau and Lexa this season. I feel they have fit in and complimented the original characters well.
Kas
If you think that slashers at OS are the only ones that dislike the character of Sam, you don't get around the net much.
Anyway, I am actually pleased to see that most fans (whatever they think of Sam)were sympathetic to the actor during all the frenzy about her contract. Maybe we learned something from the last time when the actor was vilified. Maybe.
More screentime for Walter! He is the TRUE HEART AND SOUL of SG-1. Nobody encodes chevrons like Walter. NOBODY.
One thing I'd like to know... RDA and Amanda must have REALLY pissed off some people to have them both so horribly treated this season.
RDA was on the show for 8 seasons and was the leader (on and off-screen), yet his farewell had as much impact as if the janitor was the one leaving.
Amanda has been effectively replaced by two new characters. No explanation why either. Go have a baby and stay gone, because we filled in your role.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Bridge Studios, because I bet ALL the answers to these crazy decisions are right there.
No, no one thinks that only slashers at OS hate Sam. People think that everyone as OS hates everything not Daniel.
Jack O'neill and RDA? Once loved by OS, now treated as a scumbag for "ditching Daniel".
Teal'c? He's ok at OS, seeing as how he's Daniel's sidekick and bodyguard. But give him a story all his own where Daniel isn't around, and all the "Jaffa stuff" suddenly becomes boring.
Carter? That bitch stole Jack away from his one true love, Daniel Jackson.
Vala? She's dynamite with Daniel, but "I don't want to see Vala interacting with SG-1. That's not where the magic is. I need her and Daniel".
And the greatest irony of all is that every single thread at OS, every single one, no matter what the supposed topic, will quickly find its way around to bashing Sam Carter. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. The same thirty people, constantly ragging on the same character in every thread, every single day. Then, they try to join the Sony Forums under different names and pretend to be "other people" who hate Carter. Then, they come here and demand that people "get around the net" more. Because those Sony Forums are so fair and balanced.
Stick with GateWorld folks. It's not perfect by any means. But it's better than everything else.
Ed Preston
Ed Preston is my hero. ;)
~ the dancer of spaz
"And the greatest irony of all is that every single thread at OS, every single one, no matter what the supposed topic, will quickly find its way around to bashing Sam Carter."
Why are you even giving the Ourstage forum (and website)any mention?
Let's face it, as a 'mighty force' in fandom (or so they said) they are nothing more than pathic hasbeens clinging to the past hoping to wring more attention for themselves out of it.
Their once highly touted rankings on Delphi forums as #1 has slipped to being barely on page 3. This is largely due to their person who was posting like mad in countdown thread after countdown thread pretty much spends her time now contributing to the Sony Board's counts.
Even one of their former forum moderators doesn't even claim them in her signature file on Gateworld anymore: she lists her own MSOL site, fanfic site and the Sony board site.
Most of the posters still left there continualy bring up the same stuff over and over again as if rehashing it will bring attention back to them and make them look inportant again.
Here's the way I see it, the 'glory days' with the Ourstargate forum and the person who runs it have been over for along time now so who cares what they have to say
Lucya said...
please please PLEASE do not ship Sam Carter to the Pegasus Galaxy! Just keep her on SG1 with Vala, there's some great potential there.
No, thank you. I'm seeing more potential for Vala and Dr Lam. Seriously.
"To Teal'c ranter:
The answer is:
TPTB are too scared of CJ to cause trouble for him."
Christopher Judge aready went through this for himself back in season 3. He was ready to leave the show and they actually wrote it as Teal'c died at the end. During hiateus, CJ changed his mind and they brought him back in season 4.
I have nothing controversial to add.
But I wanted to let you know that I got the biggest kick out of your "Unless we get Rygel" line. That was brilliant and had me laughing for awhile.
Oh, and I'm soooo glad Claudia is back!!!
Not again, 241 comments, insane!! I just want to say that I still love you and don't feed the trolls.
Thanks for all your thoughts and info and for being so thick skinned. I wouldn't blame you if you turned off the comments but glad you didn't!! I LOVE MITCHELL!! Ben Browder is the hottest thing in a pair of pants. Once again I request more shirtless scenes, LOL,... no seriously!
More FORD! Please don't kill LORNE!! (((hugs))) Purple *cheese*
See, that's the problem. Everyone is glad that Claudia is back. NO ONE is glad that Vala is back. As nice and wonderful a person as she may be, her character is a poor fit for stargate (and any other self-respecting show).
purpletoo said:
"I LOVE MITCHELL!! Ben Browder is the hottest thing in a pair of pants. Once again I request more shirtless scenes, LOL,... no seriously!"
Again, Joe, this is the ever increasing problem with season nine. The Mitchell character has been a very poor fit for SG-1 so far. He's had little to say and even less to do. He performs no function at all for the team, and he doesn't ever appear to be leading, despite the TPTB's protestations to the contrary. SG-1 doesn't have a use for him. The only support the character gets is from fangirls and fanboys of the actor. That's all well and good, but no matter how much you like the person playing the role, it doesn't change the fact that the character is not working out well. The only way that Mitchell has "worked" so far is at the expense of the other characters. They all have to act out of character, stupidly, and remain strangely silent about the most germaine of issues in order to facilitate Mitchell's addition to SG-1.
I'm sorry, I enjoyed Browder on Farscape as much as the next guy, but his character on SG-1 is terrible. You can like the actor and still hate what he's doing. And right now, he's not doing anything good.
NO ONE is glad that Vala is back. As nice and wonderful a person as she may be, her character is a poor fit for stargate (and any other self-respecting show).
Speak for yourself please. YOU are not happy Vala is back. I AM.
Hi, "NO ONE" here, as in NO ONE is glad that Vala is back !
there are actually a lot of people who are glad that VALA is back and are looking forward to S10 because she's back. There are a lot of people who love her character and see her as more than just T&A and humour gal. She may be sexualized but she's also an ex-Gou'ld who has a lot of contact and experience in the galaxy. I'm interested to see where they (TPTB) take the character.
I also share people's concerns about Sam. I'd love to see her interact with Vala (and the rest of the team), I don't particually want to see her on SGA, except to a few episodes. I'd love to see the old (pre S7) Sam back, sciece girl and kick-ass soldier. there's been a few glimpses so far this season, hopefully they'll be more. I think the way that AT appears to have been treated re: her contract was tacky but it is negotiation season and we'll never know the whole story.
I'm enjoying this season more than I've enjoyed SG1 for a long time. Please don't presume to speak for anyone other than yourself. It's true that a lot people have a problem with Vala, it's also true that for a lot of people, she's helped to re-vitalize the show.
NO ONE :o)
I left SG1 because I don't like Carter. I love Atlantis and I don't want Carter over there. The Atlantis crew are doing a great job the storylines are wonderful and the rest of second half of season two looks hot. If Carter comes into Season 3 with major eps it will take away from the characters already on Atlantis. Atlantis is a seperate show we were told that we wouldn't be getting many crossovers if any. Now we are having Carter rammed down our throats. I love Atlantis and want it left alone. It's not SG1 it's Atlantis and should be kept seperate. It's rating well why mess with it.
To cleanse the palette between diatribes, I had a comment/question, since you obviously haunt here between blog entries Joe. ;-)
Do you know how the idea of using the Ver Ager set for a haunted house came about? It sounds like it was a wonderful idea for a great local charity. I hope it was a big success (sold out?). Were other shows f/x teams/crews also involved? Did you attend?
I will chime in for the heart and soul of Stargate debate. It's obviously Siler. Without him and his big wrench, the SGC would be nowhere. NOWHERE I tell you!
I loved your comments about Rygel! Very cute, and fitting.
anonymous said:
The Mitchell character has been a very poor fit for SG-1 so far. He's had little to say and even less to do. He performs no function at all for the team, and he doesn't ever appear to be leading, despite the TPTB's protestations to the contrary. SG-1 doesn't have a use for him. The only support the character gets is from fangirls and fanboys of the actor.
Excuse me, I didn't know who the heck Ben Browder was unitl he showed up on Stargate, and I personally don't find the man all that attractive (no offense to Ben). I still like the character of Cam Mitchell and I think he's doing fine. Please, if you don't think he works, that's your opinion and you have a right to express it. However, DO NOT speak for everybody else. That goes for everyone else who has done so.
My personal OPINION:
I am opposed to Carter on Atlantis since I think that show is perfect the way it is (except needing more character development), and I think that Carter needs to stay on SG-1. However, I have been watching SG-1 for nine years, and while I have been upset with decisions made by TPTB in the past, I still tune in every week and squeal and laugh and cry and enjoy. The show is still worth watching even though it hasn't gone MY WAY. Same with Atlantis. Already TPTB have done a few things I was not happy with or would have done differently, yet I still ADORE it. Therefore, I'm going to trust that TPTB will continue to make the shows worth watching. Besides, nothing has been decided yet.
To Joe: Thank you for putting up with all of this. You're a brave soul.
Get over yourselves. At her age and lack of talent Tapping is lucky to have a job at all and she knows it. Witness the way she was so quick to recant on what she said at her con. She's probably been told to fix the mess she made or else, so she chooses to make idiots of her fans rather than tell the truth. Why would she want to go off and play someone's mother on a teen soap that will probably never get made? It was all just a negotiation ploy that blew up in her face. What a dork.
Ya gotta laugh. Amanda Tapping tries to get all the fans to yell and scream on her behalf so she can get a better deal and all that happens, apart from a few hysterical shippers who have been saying they don't watch any more any way, is that fans of both shows are saying they don't want her to mess up their favourite. Ah well, she always said she wanted to do comedy!
Why is Amanda Tapping suddenly denying what she said last weekend?
I was at Gabit last weekend and I know what I heard.
What has been reported in our threads here is exactly as she said it.
Why is she suddenly calling her fans liars?
All we wanted to do was support her as we have always done. She told us she was being treated badly, and now suddenly we are the bad people? We lied? I don't think so.
I used to think Amanda Tapping was gracious and sweet. I loved the stories about the people on the show and the behind the scenes stories. I thought I was getting a great inside story.
Now I think all we got was exactly that, a story. Amanda Tapping's version of whatever she wanted, so she could be popular and have people feel sorry for her.
I have lost all my respect for Amanda Tapping in the last few days which is crushing after such a wonderful weekend.
I hope she does leave both shows. She has killed my respect for her and I no longer will believe her capable of playing a character of integrity and senior officer in the ariforce.
By the way, I don't post this to cause trouble, although I'm sure it will bring out the bloodhounds. I post it in case Joe does read these comments and I want him to know that not everyone here thinks that saying Sam is a leader makes her one. And her fans can beat their chests and breasts all they want on the subject but it doesn't make her any more believable as a leader...
examples, anyone?
A 15-year-old actor playing 'Jack' showed more charisma and leadership ability of men than Sam ever did, even when she was being touted to be a 'leader' by her rank. It took a 15-year old to get pilots to listen to her -- not her own abilities. They sat there mocking her and not paying attention despite the rank on her uniform and she stood there helpless to change it. The more the writers put her in situations of giving commands, the more she shows she isn't suited for it. Science, yes, she's great at it. Leadership, no.
And I don't think she was given SG-1 'as her own' as someone here said... Jack was having trouble putting someone in there as a replacement, she suggested there was nothing in the rulebook saying the team had to be four and couldn't be three, so he leapt on that, said 'there you have it' which is a paraphrase of his expressive way of talking with his hands, not an indication he was giving it to her. Hence, she got it by default of him not wanting to make a decision. And then Jack proceeded to look over her shoulder, refuse to send her out until he had sufficiently experienced backup for her, and tell Teal'c to carry out his orders in case she failed to. Meanwhile she pouted (to the point that even Daniel tried to placate her), chased Jack down the hall to see if he gave her an approval rating in her evaluation, bounched up and down like a kid when she got his pat on the head, and then whined and badgered him until he told her Replicarter wasn't her fault (and he was right -- it was his fault -- he should have never sent her out there to do that job -- he knew she wasn't capable of it or he wouldn't have kept checking on her with Teal'c; instead, he should have sent a real colonel who understood chain of command who didn't have an inflated ego that thinks she can solve everything, understand everybody, and manipulate everyone to her own way of thinking. Or he should have gone himself, or would have if he wasn't played by three day a week by that time RDA.
At least Mitchell was given the position in full recognition of his capabilities by his superiors, if not by all the fans who come here.
Anonymous "GABITEER" said:
Why is Amanda Tapping suddenly denying what she said last weekend?
I was at Gabit last weekend and I know what I heard.
What has been reported in our threads here is exactly as she said it.
Why is she suddenly calling her fans liars?
All we wanted to do was support her as we have always done. She told us she was being treated badly, and now suddenly we are the bad people? We lied? I don't think so.
I used to think Amanda Tapping was gracious and sweet. I loved the stories about the people on the show and the behind the scenes stories. I thought I was getting a great inside story.
Now I think all we got was exactly that, a story. Amanda Tapping's version of whatever she wanted, so she could be popular and have people feel sorry for her.
I have lost all my respect for Amanda Tapping in the last few days which is crushing after such a wonderful weekend.
I hope she does leave both shows. She has killed my respect for her and I no longer will believe her capable of playing a character of integrity and senior officer in the ariforce.
-----------------------------------
OK, not to get back into the name-calling again, but does anyone - ANYONE AT ALL - actually believe that this wanker REALLY paid good money to see Tapping at GABIT? Honestly?
Didn't think so.
Again, I don't mean to digress, but stuff like this really irked me. Pretending to be a once-avid and dedicated fan who was suddenly dishearted by this past weekend's "manipulation" is lower than I thought even the lowest of haters could go.
Seriously, it makes me sad inside.
Nobody likes a liar,
the dancer of spaz
For the person who posted that RDA must have angered someone to get such a terrible ending to his story... RDA was executive producer and if he wanted or even cared about how he was written out of the show, he would have gotten a different ending... and if you don't believe this, go back through the DVD commentaries, print articles, con transcripts... there is plenty of evidence where crew, other producers, partner, and costars called RDA 'the boss' and mentioned changes he facilitated. All Joe and the other writers were guilty of in this case was hoping to much that if they left the door wide open for him to come back, any way that might be, he could. RDA's lack of interest in season 8 was blatently apparent onscreen, and to say he got shortchanged because he angered someone is ludicrous. All he had to do was send back his notes to the writers saying rewrite this... like they have said he's done before (remember the comments about him changing lines, then asking who wrote this crap and they reminding him that he did)... but to do that, he would have to care...
... and while I'm on the subject, it's no use whining to Joe about wanting RDA back... all indications are that if he wanted to come back, SciFi and MGM would have him back in a heartbeat... the man wants to do other things with his life right now. Who knows maybe later, he'll get bored with what he's doing and want to come back a time or two.
Wow! I think the last several bloggers who are criticizing AT are just trolls. AT did not call her fans liars. I can't believe people spend time on this. Are you so threatened that your own favorite character will be pushed aside? Or maybe you are just a practical joker.
The comments about AT are uncalled for. Are you not liking the fact that many many fans responded positively about AT/Sam? Or you must be threatened by it, so you blame the actress even though you have no clue who she is. This is as shameful as those who tried to say that Ben Browder is full of himself and pushed to be first in the credits without having a clue what he is actually like. This is ridiculous and it makes you look really bad.
Sorry this won't work. Who could take your harsh comments seriously? It has been consistently reported that AT (and BB for that matter) is wonderful and kind person. And I think JM and the others actually KNOW what type of people they are.
Chocdoc
It's nice to see that Amanda has one fan at least who doesn't like to be manipulated and used.
Where did she call the fans liars?
I don't think she had any idea that the hue and cry would be so overwhelming. And maybe TPTB did ask her to try to selttle people a little. My understanding is that she was asked about season 10 and gave an honest response. Did she ever ask any fans to bombard TPTB and Joe's blog?
MM
Well, so much for fandom uniting under the common cause of outrage on behalf of Amanda/Sam. I knew it was too good to last. ;)
I don't suppose it ever occurred to anyone that where someone posts (or doesn't post) doesn't make any difference. Opinions are universal and a person's opinion is (usually) going to be the same whether they're posting on GW, OS, Sony, or Spongebob Squareboard. What really matters (or what should matter) is the quality of the posts from the various individuals. And if all someone is doing is spewing forth vile hatred calculated to offend everyone and/or targeted against specific people/groups, then leave it alone. YOU know it's trash and chances are, everyone else knows it, too. As the saying goes, "Don't feed the trolls."
I think there's enough fractionalization and dissention in fandom without us going out of our way to create more.
Oh, and I'll second purple's comments: more Ford and more Lorne. Also more Zelenka, more Kusanagi, more Kavanagh, more Console Guy, more Weir having a backbone, more Teyla in real clothes, more Dr. whats-his-name, the main character with the funny accent who is never see (yes, that's sarcasm), more exploration of the city. And more Lorne. And more Ford. Please. :)
Anonymous "GABITEER" supporter said:
It's nice to see that Amanda has one fan at least who doesn't like to be manipulated and used.
-----------------------------------
Oh, look! Special K brought friends!!!
Never estimate the power of stupid people in large groups,
the dancer of spaz
Never estimate the power of stupid people in large groups like samanda.
ooops that only looks like a large group.
Oh, look! Special K brought friends!!!
the dancer of spaz
Get the frell off me, Special D.
Mr. Mallozzi. No Rygel!!?! Outrageous, as I was so looking forward to John/Rygel, part deux.
Your "Fargate" type comments were hilarious.
Thanks for setting those few fans straight, those who think Browder and Black are only capable of playing John and Aeryn. As you noted, Vala couldn't be more different than Aeryn if she were Rygel!
On a more serious note, I do hope that Vala and Carter get some good story/girl time because that combo could be either very funny or very evil.
No Star Jones?! I'm not going to watch anymore then...
We finally got our power restored, (stupid Wilma) so now we can get our Stargate fix. Thank Apophis!
Still really enjoying your blog. Thanks for continuing to update it.
Anonymous Cult Croney said:
Never estimate the power of stupid people in large groups like samanda.
ooops that only looks like a large group.
-----------------------------------
Haha. Sony is the MASTER of such an illusion. 8 to 10 members are supposed to represent the WHOLE fandom. Mmmkay.
Do you even know what "Samanda" is, or did Special K (or Special D) just tell you that they were the enemy and that you needed to fire at will?
Sony's motto should be: Hatred Reigns Here
Has a nice ring to it, don't ya think?
No one likes a lemming,
the dancer of spaz
Wait a minute! I'm Special D!
Awesome...
And original.
Way to go...
Hey, Joe.
Add me to the group that doesn't want to see Carter on Atlantis as anything other than an irregular drop-in. We don't need her-we've got McKay.
Why on Earth would TPTB want Vala as a full-time character? SG-1 is supposed to be a (somewhat) serious show. I see Vala as the comic relief and a little of that goes a long way. Week after week of her would grate on my nerves.
I'm right there with the anonymous poster above me. Carter will absolutely dominate the characters on Atlantis. It will turn into a battle for screen time. And, after seeing what's happened already since the news broke, it won't matter how equitably that screen time is split. Fans are going to see some characters, probably a variety of them, as being cut back in order to accomodate Carter. It doesn't matter if that's what happens or not, that is what people will see. The Carter character does not need to be viewed as an unwelcomed addition who serves no purpose. That's what's wrong with Mitchell, and it's why so many people are having a hard time accepting him as a new character.
Again agreeing with the post above, Vala is not a good idea for weekly consumption. Her presence week in, week out would turn the show into a low comedy of the worst kind. The character of Vala herself would be the first casualty. Vala has to be toned down so much that she would cease to be the character she once was.
Maybe folks can just click on OTHER and fill in some kind of name besides anonymous (like Anonymous A, Anonymous #100). Wow, so many anonymous fans....
Anyway... like SGA the way it is, but... instead of bringing Sam over (why not develop her on SG1 instead??) let's see more on Weir and Teyla? I the two women have had one scene between them in 1.5 seasons. What does Weir do when She's team is off getting into trouble? Who does she talk to to confide her troubles? How is Teyla dealing with her people being on the mainland? Will there ever be any stories based on the mainland. I mean, hey, 15 million square miles - there's GOT to be a story there somewhere!
Develop the folks we already have on SGA - Shep, McKay, Teyla, Ronan, Weir, and even Zelenka and Lorne, but let's not lose any of that development to bring SG1 folk over.
I think this current round of no Sam on SGA is due to a poll over at Sony by one of the many Friends of Vala.
The one over at the SG-1 thread was closed by the one of the Mods.
FYI.
If I were Amanda I'd run for SGA too. She probably took one look at the Ori-shark baby and decided she'd better cut bait. The Wraith are a bad villain, but nothing screams awful like Ori-shark baby.
Vala on a weekly, regular or even semi-regular basis would be horrendous and would detract from the show even more than has already been detracted (and I am not talking small amounts here). Vala is a joke, she is a caricature, she is over the top she is a pain in the mikta, she is obnoxious, and she is just plain crass and cheap - small doses ok - more Vala for less Carter - won't fly - not even if they had Moya to put her in.
KevinD
For the person calling AT a liar if you had actaully been at GABIT this weekend you wouldn't be making those comments! Interesting someone can say whatever they like and claim to be somewhere they have never been!! AT is not nor has she ever called her fans a liar. She adores her fans!! She is a class act lady, funny and one of the nicest people anyone could ever meet. Nothing I read in her message went against what she said at GABIT! She only clarified that she now intends to come back to SG-1. I for one am glad she is returning although I am worried how TPTB will write her in to both series.
I've been a loyal SG1 and Atlantis fan from the beginning of both series. I like AT and enjoy her portrayal of Sam. BUT, I do *not* want to see the character on Atlantis! If there's so much to explore in the character of Sam, then it should be explored on SG1.
There are so many great characters and actors on Atlantis and I like that dynamic so much, why why why would anyone want to mess with what is such a great show? Having Sam on Atlantis would unavoidably take time away from the other Atlantis characters - exactly what I *don't* want. I want more time with the Atlantis crew, not less.
Please, keep Sam on SG1 and off of Atlantis.
Anonymous said...
For the person calling AT a liar if you had actaully been at GABIT this weekend you wouldn't be making those comments! Interesting someone can say whatever they like and claim to be somewhere they have never been!! AT is not nor has she ever called her fans a liar. She adores her fans!! She is a class act lady, funny and one of the nicest people anyone could ever meet. Nothing I read in her message went against what she said at GABIT! She only clarified that she now intends to come back to SG-1. I for one am glad she is returning although I am worried how TPTB will write her in to both series.
Ditto to all of the above. Everything I've heard or seen about her tells me she is just a real class act who appreciates the love and support she receives even though she doesn't understand why she deserves it. What a sweet woman. :D
As for Sam, I hope she stays front and center on SG-1 and maybe has a few dalliances with the Pegasus galaxy. ;)
Mary Beth
Well, that was interesting. Need more popcorn.
Sorry, but I don't want Sam in the Pegasus galaxy at all. Whether it's in Mckay's head or not, Carter is already making one "dalliance" to the Pegasus galaxy this year in the episode I like to call "Most Unoriginal Episode Ever". These writers seem to completely incapable of putting Carter in a room with a man and not having said man fall all over her. I like Carter, always have and always will. But right now I'm pretty down about Grace Under Pressure, and I'm pretty down over the prospect of Rodney fantasizing about Carter for a whole episode. Mckay is a better character than that, and so is Carter. But when the writers put them together, they seem to view it as an excuse to write the characters stupidly. It's the same problem I have with Daniel and Vala. With both "pairings" it's 90% throw away dialogue with no depth and 0% actual character development. People do not always act stupidly just because they have an antagonistic relationship with someone. In fact, they usually behavior rather guarded.
Geez, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get.
Really? Man I'm looking forward to Grace Under Pressure more than pretty much any other SGA episode this year. It looks like it's going to be really funny!
I mean I'm a Jack/Sam shipper all the way...and if we were talking about her REALLY being there with him and all the things that I'm sure will be said/done betwixt Rodney and his hallucination...that'd be another thing entirely. And I'm sure things will play out way differently when they do meet up again...but Rodney will have his memories of this time with his imaginary Carter to keep him warm.
But the idea of a "not really Sam" being there...a figment of Rodney McKay's deluded mind...well that's just comedy gold waiting to be mined.
JMHO of course...
And Joe...you'll surpass last week's comments record for sure this time.
:)
anti sam/amanda cult - please stop coming over here to insult amanda tapping. amanda is a wonderful and kind person, and i pray she doesn't read this blog. can't you be civil? can't you treat her with even a modicum of respect? she didn't do anything wrong or immoral, so why don't you stop trying to tarnish her name.
sally :(
Yup, really. GUP is a bigger rip off than Epiphany, which sounds disturbingly similar to that SG-1 episode where Jack is trapped offworld. I just want more originality out of Atlantis. So far it can't seem to break free of SG-1, and the likelyhood of more crossovers doesn't make its chances of ever doing so any better. Besides, I can't imagine how Carter won't dominate the characters on Atlantis. She's got nine years of backstory and a huge amount of character development. No Atlantis character can compete with that. And Rodney has regressed enough for me this year that I don't want to see him go any futher backwards when he "sees" Carter. But that's bound to happen. Besides, I still think one of the Atlantis characters should be the one to help Rodney out in GUP. Those are the kinds of episodes that the SG-1 characters had with each other that made me love them so much. Atlantis doesn't really do that. To do that now they apparently need Carter. And that's a little sad.
Anonymous said:
"Geez, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get."
I'm cautiously looking forward to GUP. I love everything Atlantis does so I don't see why this would be any different. Well not everything. I don't like the Goa'uld crossing over to Atlantis, thats to unbelievable. And I'm cautious looking forward to Allies but am afraid its going to be just like the tokra. you know allies with wraith who believe in differences with the wraith who want to overthrow the other wraith. Other than that thow I can't wait.
"Why are you even giving the Ourstage forum (and website)any mention?"
Why are you? Apparently, you have issues but whatever helps you sleep at night.
majorsal said...
anti sam/amanda cult - please stop coming over here to insult amanda tapping. amanda is a wonderful and kind person, and i pray she doesn't read this blog. can't you be civil? can't you treat her with even a modicum of respect? she didn't do anything wrong or immoral, so why don't you stop trying to tarnish her name.
sally :(
Very well put Sally. I could also say the same thing about Claudia Black.
If she ever reads the posts
over at Sony, OS, and other forums, she also may find that one reason why her character (Vala) is only well liked because of Anti Sam/AT groups, she may not like that.
And Joe, I like Ms. Black.
If anyone else had written GUP, I'd know it was another obnoxious rip-off. But I have faith in Martin Gero. He's pulled off miracles before and I'm not quite ready to write him or the ep off just yet. Maybe after the ep airs, but for now I'm keeping an open mind. ;)
Still, Atlantis does seem to be a haven for "we didn't get it right on SG-1, so let's try again on Atlantis" eps. Hopefully that isn't going to extend to characters as well.
You say this is a great thing, Joe, and Amanda says she's gung ho for it, too, but I still have my doubts. My faith in individual writers doesn't extend to the decision-makers and the groupmind that shapes the shows. That bridge was burned a long time ago.
Basically, Joe, as long as you write Vala WITH Daniel, his psycho fans will like her.
However, if you write her with someone else - anyone else - even Mitchell, for longer than a short scene... Well, you're testing the waters.
So, imagine what would happen if you wrote an ENTIRE episode of Vala with another character (like Sam).
Imagine what would happen if you did it for more than one episode.
Can you imagine the carnage?
You should do it just for kicks.
~DoS
You shouldn't be writing Vala and *any* character. She's a cross between Aris Boch and Anise, and neither of them came back because neither of them are interesting enough for more than a couple episodes. The writers need to get over this fetish they have with the low characters and try writing something for the leads. Shakespeare's low characters steal the show, but only because they make such small and timely appearances. If they were there all the time the story would go nowhere, just like SG1 in its first five episodes. The same goes for Bill Lee. He's cute and harmless and a nice distraction, but he does nothing for the story besides inject a little humor or the opportunity for the other characters to joke at his expense. You guys aren't Shakespeare, but take a hint from him--a little goes a long way when it comes to creations like Vala.
One thing that annoyed me with The Dead Zone was that the only main character that developed was John... all the other main characters were treated secondary to the guest characters. Stargate needs good character story arcs... some emotional or psychological charge to the show, in parallel to the story arc of the Ori at the moment.
Imagine if in one episode, there's some weird Ori weapon that Teal'c gets struck by which triggers a weird variant of Clinical Depression or some other mental condition like that that he has to overcome himself? It could potentially change his personality quite drastically... wouldn't something like that be interesting?
Audiences are also quite intelligent. One thing that I've noticed with shows like Battlestar Galatica is if you leave the audience hanging (for example, is Adama a Cylon?) it opens a huge range of options for other episodes, keeping the audience on their toes.
DoS (Dancer of Spaz?) wrote: Basically, Joe, as long as you write Vala WITH Daniel, his psycho fans will like her.
So, are you saying all Daniel fans are psycho, or that Vala fans are all psycho, or that all Vala Daniel ship fans are psycho, or just the ones on forums you appear to like bashing?
I'm just not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or amused. That's the danger of making gross generalizations.
I don't belong to any of the forums mentioned here, but I'm a Daniel fan who finds Vala extremely annoying many times and shudders at the thoughts of a "ship" between them. Though it could be interesting to see Vala bounce off of the other characters more, she'd probably overshadow them the same way she does Daniel.
It's not CB's fault, it's the nature of the character. It's over the top, and as someone else pointed out, like Shakespeare's comic relief, good only in small doses. This of course is only my humble opinion. YMMV--and for a lot of people here, it seems to vary widely, ;-)
In my opinion, the only way Sam will dominate the characters on Atlantis is if the writers foolishly give her all the lines to speak.
Joe,
Carter crossing over to Atlnatis? A seriously bad idea. I don't care what kind of grandiose arc you guys have concocted. Keep the two shows seperate.
Kyle
Oooh! Oooh!
I get comment #300!!!
Wow, just over two days and this post is already up to 300 comments... I wonder how long it will take to get to 500 ? or 600 ? or more ??
Joe, keep making the blogs like this... you'll get a lot of comments, lol.
Anywho, good luck with those tv shows you're watching.
Keep up the good work!
-Jeremy
Is it confirmed that CB has a full 20 episodes for s10??
To the anonymous poster asking Dancer of Spaz a question...
I think she was talking specifically about "psycho Daniel fans" as an actual fringe subcategory of fandom. And by psycho fans, we're talking about those who scream the almost holy name of Daniel above all else. This includes Vala for the moment because right now, more Vala means more Daniel.
But the truth is that Vala as written is too over the top...which is fine for short term exposure (I think she was a bit too much for too many episodes in a row, but that's just me). She has to mellow if she's going to work for long term consumption. Heaven help her though if this is even marginally accomplished by her becoming friends with Sam...because I'll bet we'll see quite a reversal in their opinion of her. Plus Sam will continue to be reviled by them because once again she will have taken scenes from Daniel by becoming friends with his Vala.
Some of these same fans are also those who like Cam for the moment because he's innocuous enough and hangs around Daniel...but they have already warned that he'd better not take screen time away from Daniel "or else."
As for me...I'm a Sam fan, a Daniel fan, a Teal'c fan, etc. And whereas I prefer Sam, I don't see scenes with Daniel or scenes with Teal'c as taking away from her...it's not the Samantha Carter show anymore than it's the Daniel Jackson show. It's a team show where everyone contributes and sometimes episodes highlight one character over another.
It's called balance...something experienced by level-headed people who can enjoy different aspects about SG-1 without freaking out that their character isn't front and center all the time...and actually enjoys most if not all aspects of the show to one extent or another.
I hope Dancer of Spaz won't mind me butting in but I believe that's what she meant.
:)
Mary Beth
Let's get Jonas back for Season 10. Come on guys! He is all that is missing from Stargate. He was a bloody good character and deserves a decent stint on the show. Come one!!! Offer Corin a contract!!
Oh no, thank you. No Jonas Quinn. And to tell the truth, I see a lot more potential for Vala/Dr Lam friendship than Vala/Sam. Carter called Vala a "backup singer", remember?
First of all, Joe, thank you very much for blogging at all, I really appreciate that.
And now let me say: Wow, there is quite a commotion in the fandom! I know that nothing is confirmed yet, but I strongly believe that it’s no use to protest against something once it’s decided. So now is the time to voice one’s opinion, and I’ll join in.
So Amanda Tapping has cleared up rumours? Well, she made clear that she still has a job. This is great for her (I don’t wish unemployment on anyone), and it’s great for her fans. But while this might mean a lot to her, it doesn’t mean that much to me, simply because I’m not one of her fans. Don’t get me wrong, she appears to be a very kind and talented woman and I was very happy for her when her baby was born. And I think all these personal insults I’ve read here are childish and very unnecessary.
But the possibility that her character might appear on SGA remains. And this is what bothers me.
- Carter isn’t needed on Atlantis. Everything she could offer is already covered by another character, she would outrank Sheppard and probably McKay too in a way.
- Yes, it could be interesting to see her and Weir have a few scenes together again. But that doesn’t justify the whole idea for me.
- Yes, it might be interesting to see her and McKay have a few scenes together again. But only a few scenes, and that’s it. This duo is only funny because of the distance between them. If they had to work together every day their banter would soon become very boring. And I do believe that McKay is smarter than Sam (though he’s socially not as adept as she is) and Atlantis is “his territory”.
- There are many other characters who still don’t have the screen time they deserve or the background story they need. Let’s focus on them. Let’s focus on this team and their struggles and their backgrounds. They have become something like a family in the time they depended on each other. There’s potential, even with all these new characters now (Lorne, Caldwell etc.), while the old and gone ones weren’t even mentioned (one sentence about Bates on the show would have been enough. But no, he fell into a plothole). And let them explore the city or the mainland. I never liked how fast they made it back to earth, but I accept it.
- Sam is a mighty character. She has so much background, she has many fans, she has presence. That’s good for SG1, but bad for Atlantis. Even if she didn’t say a single word while on Atlantis, she would still be the centre of all attention. That’s not fair to the relatively “young characters” on SGA. That’s not fair to the show. It’s not an advantage, even if you try to make it sound like one.
- What could she possibly do in Atlantis all day long? She doesn’t know anything about the Wraith, the others have far more experience with them. But since she has a lot of experience in fighting aliens - do you want her to tell everybody else how to proceed? I know I don’t want to see that.
In fact, if anyone elswe was needed on Atlantis, then it would be Daniel. Carter says so herself in “Gemini”! But however, personally I think it’s better if no-one from the old show comes to the new one.
- If there is so much still left to explore in Sam’s character - then why not do it on SG1, Vala or not? The cast on SGA is big enough already.
Yes, I know I might be overreacting a little, but at the moment it feels as if Atlantis is becoming the trashcan of SG1. Everything that’s not the big hit on SG1 anymore comes to Atlantis. Stories that didn’t work so well were renewed, Goa’uld are appearing, and now this talk about Carter on Atlantis, only because Vala gets more screen time.
Well, I always hear this “Be happy, you’ll get even more Carter this way”, but what about the many people who don’t want that? I am a great fan of SGA and not so much of SG1, and I know many people who think so too. So why do we have to live with that? Is anyone from SGA going to SG1 and causing trouble there? No. So why the other way round and disturb a show that is running smoothly? SGA has good ratings. It has many fans. It was supposed to be an independent spin-off with only few crossovers. Geez, they didn’t even take Zats with them to Atlantis to emphasize the difference! And it worked. SGA has some flaws, but it’s still a pretty good show. So, please, keep the crossovers to a minimum!
I know, it’s not my personal dream show, and there are always things not every fan likes, simply because you can’t please everybody. So yes, this isn’t the decision of the fans. But in the end they are important, and so it might be wise to listen to them once in a while. And, judging from what I read, saw and heard in the last days, this crossover topic is one of these things where listening to the fans might be a good idea.
Bye, A.
ubersg-1fan wrote: But the truth is that Vala as written is too over the top...which is fine for short term exposure (I think she was a bit too much for too many episodes in a row, but that's just me). She has to mellow if she's going to work for long term consumption.
First of all, thanks for the clarification. Based on that, I'll merely be amused. :) Some/a FEW Vala fans just seem to like Daniel because he's with her (and they had interesting banter). They'd probably drop him if/when she sparked with someone else like Cam--I've seen some mad Daniel's "mean" to her. Of course, IMHO, I thought the backup singer remark was funny (All Sam knew about Vala at that time was she hijacked Prometheus and almost killed one of her best friends with that bracelet stunt, oh yeah and maybe that she insulted that senator--not very endearing qualities).
I agree with all of your post (well, switch the preference of Daniel for Sam, tee hee). For me it's the team.
I love Vala as a scene stealer in small doses. I wonder if a toned down Vala will work. As much as she drives me nuts at times, I like the flamboyant nature of her character, and I think CB plays a surprisingly subtle performance for what could've been a stock stereotype character.
"Oh no, thank you. No Jonas Quinn. And to tell the truth, I see a lot more potential for Vala/Dr Lam friendship than Vala/Sam. Carter called Vala a "backup singer", remember?"
Which actually bodes BETTER for the friendship angle, because conflict drives dramatic narrative. If Carter and Vala start off sparring and end up friends, it'll be a lot more fun to follow/watch than if they embraced like long-lost siblings from the moment they met. Especially considering Vala's personality would lend itself so well to an adversarial kind of friendship with someone like Sam. Vala could teach Carter a few things about loostening up; Carter could teach Vala a few things about believing in herself again, and recovering some of the personal-integrity she's had to relinquish vis-a-vis her trial(s) as a Goa'uld host, and later as a total outcast because of it.
I think one of the primary reasons Vala sought out Daniel so vehemently was because he was probably one of a very few souls (if not the only soul) to understand who she really was (to see her so-called "negative" qualities for what they are) yet still treat her with some semblance of dignity and respect even so. Vala's had to swallow her integrity for so long, she'll probably need to rediscover what it's like to feel real trust and friendship again before she can start to get any of it back. To that end, I think an adversarial relationship with Carter would be a lot of fun before they became friends (and even during the process). Especially if the two of them are going to co-exist as series regulars. Very cool conflict.
Hi Joe,
Thanks for blogging. It's interesting to read.
Just wondering...
I'll give you (and the other writers) credit for usually writing arcs that have a destination. When it comes to the Sam engagement, what happened?
"Popping the question" seemed forced and too soon. Then the David DeLuise was just gone. Did he get another role that made him unavailable?
Thanks!
Nyssa
Stopping in to say that Carter should stay on SG-1. Atcually, she ought to be leading SG-1, but I'm pretty sure you writers already know that. After all, there has to be a reason Mitchell has been written the way he has. I'm betting that it's a subtle form of protest on your a part. A little miffed at Skiffy for forcing Mitchell where he doesn't belong?
Me-"Why are you even giving the Ourstage forum (and website)any mention?"
You-"Why are you? Apparently, you have issues but whatever helps you sleep at night. "
Me-"Yup a few skims of the posts over there filled with the same boring has been rhetoric and it put's me right to sleep. It's better than Sominex."
In response to the generalization question, ubersg-1fan said:
I think she was talking specifically about "psycho Daniel fans" as an actual fringe subcategory of fandom. And by psycho fans, we're talking about those who scream the almost holy name of Daniel above all else. This includes Vala for the moment because right now, more Vala means more Daniel.
I hope Dancer of Spaz won't mind me butting in but I believe that's what she meant.
-----------------------------------
I don't mind at all! :D Thanks for explaining it for me.
I definitely don't mean all Daniel fans, because I've met quite a few Daniel Fans who aren't extreme in their "faith," and are against bashing any of the actors/characters.
To be honest though, the crazy Daniel fans who want no one around but Daniel, are like the crazy S/J ship fans who want nothing else but ship. While everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, some people take it just a little too far - mostly to the detriment of other fans.
I'm a hardcore S/J shipper and I like Daniel, but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere with how far that's taken.
I hope that clears things up a little bit! :)
~ DoS (the dancer of spaz)
Yeah, it seems that every character has their fair share of crazy, over the top fans. And let's face it, you know who you are. Still, just about every fan I've talked to and every post I've read online the past few days is talking about Carter and crossovers to Atlantis. And 99% of those people think it is a bad idea. Terrible. Heinous. Evil. And I tend to agree. SG-1 and Atlantis should remain seperate shows. That said, Torri Higginson's comments about season 3 opening on Earth has got me worried. I think the writers are trying to combine the shows too much.
Thanks Joe, I truly enjoy your sense of humor.
Atlantis already has a drenload of technobabble provided by its' own full time staff. So, I can only assume Carter would get a chance to do something more challenging and fun in any cross-over episodes. If that's the case it should be good news to all concerned rather than something to whine about.
As far as Fargate goes, I too am a fan of both shows and have yet to become confused about which character I'm watching. Ben and Claudia bring a lot of life to the show and have improved it immensely. I would love to see more of Claudia Black next season. While not in favor of seeing any additional puppets on SG-1, I must confess a cohort scene between Rygel and Vala would be quite amusing. In lieu of that, Johnathan Hardy really might be a good idea.
DoS said: To be honest though, the crazy Daniel fans who want no one around but Daniel, are like the crazy S/J ship fans who want nothing else but ship. While everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, some people take it just a little too far - mostly to the detriment of other fans. ...
I hope that clears things up a little bit! :)
It does, thank you. :)
It's the Teal'c psycho fans that really scare me. They're so quiet, you never know they're there until they're about to strike! ;) Careful of them, Joe!
Signed,
A huge but not "psycho" Daniel fan. (I like Sam too!)
have you seen the japanese movie Nobody Knows?
want a good depressing movie?
yeah...its a good one if you haven't watched it.
I think it says a LOT about fan confidence in TPTB that the idea of crossovers has a lot of people (or apparently a lot of people) worried. Usually, crossovers are something to look forward to- something fun and exciting that gives fans of each show something to enjoy and that adds an extra dimension for fans who like BOTH shows. But where once the idea of crossovers seemed kinda cool, now I get the feeling that folks are a bit more cagey about it.
As I've said before, crossovers are probably inevitable, but they should be very rare events and only done for vital reasons, not "just because" and not from a lack of knowing what else to do with the plot/characters.
Personally, I'd much rather see Atlantis be developed as the unique and different show we were promised and not treated as a side salad to SG-1. Every crossover drags Atlantis closer to SG-1 when it's supposed to be striking out on its own.
Pretty much all confidence in TPTB went out the window with Mitchell being handed command on a silver platter, Jack's terrible departure (or lack thereof), and the ever dangerous Ori-shark baby. Those are three HUGE missteps, two of which they can't ever fix. Who am I kidding, that baby is happening and nothing is gonna stop it.
So Joe, did you see the Good Eats episode about avocados that was on recently? (Do you even watch Good Eats? If not, I highly recommend it.) Alton made avocado ice cream, and I immediately thought of you. You can get the basic recipe here: http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_32237,00.html although I'm sure with your extensive ice cream making history, you could jazz it up a bit.
You've said in your blog that the Carter fans should be happy that they get her on two shows. That's fine for them but not all of us are big Sam/SG1 fans we love Atlantis because it's different. I did enjoy SG1 for a while but lately not so much. I love Atlantis and have been hooked right from the start the characters are all interesting and different. It's rating well and a wonderful separate show. We have McKay and he's a great scientist and Sheppard a wonderful military leader with a great deal of charm and charisma going for him. What could Sam bring to Atlantis that isn't already there. She's Sheppards senior officer but has no experience with the Wraith and while she's a good scientist Rodney has the experience in the Pegasus galaxy and while not military he can hold his own against the Wraith if he has to.
There is so much out there for them to explore and we were led to believe that this would be a separate show and yet now we are being told that they end up back on earth by season 3 and then to have Sam come over it just seems like it's going to be an extended version of SG1 instead of an entirely separate show which will be very disappointing if that happens.
If Sam is such a great character keep her on SG1 where she belongs and give her the storylines there and let the Atlantis team be allowed to grow and develop on their own. We still have so much to learn about them.
I am having problems with the cross over because the two should be treated as two separate shows. SG Atlantis is not good this year. It just seems to be old episodes of SG-1 rehashed. There are not many original ideals floating around over there. It has no aim, no purpose, and no enemy to fight the good fight against.
On top of that now they want to add another character to SGA? Are you crazy? Stupid more like it. You are 1 and 1/2 years on to SGA and you have not dealt with the characters it already has. You do not utilize the character nearly enough and Lt Ford is an example of the ineptitude. Over on the forum I belong to people whine and complain about Teyla. She has no purpose on SGA except to be your T&A girl. Have you thought about taking care of the characters you already have Joe? Why can you not develop Teyla. Why do you want to add another character and a scientist to boot. So what you need 3 of them there? It makes no sense at all Joe. SG Atlantis is Atlantis. Leave it be. SG-1 is SG-1. Leave it be. Don't shove your guys lack of proper character development down our throats.
There is so much you could be doing with SG-1. Why get rid of Carter. Why not just write it so that Vala joins Sg-1. There is just so much more you guys could be doing with that. The two of them, Carter and Vala ganging up on the guys. Playing jokes on Daniel. Giving the wink behind Daniels back. There is so much more. Think back to how you guys had it planned for Dr Fraiser and Carter to hate each other. To be bitchy to each other. But they told you guys no. The two of them said if you did it where they could be friends it would be so much better and they were right.
You also seriously need to get a female writer because it is sure showing that you do not have one. AT is a great actress and you have not begun to dive in the possiblities that she could bring to her game if you just give her the opportunity. C. Black could also bring it. But soon the lack of good writing for your female characters will sooner or later also hit the character Vala. Think outside the box Joe.
Out of curiosity, how is Sam Sheppard's senior officer? They are both lieutenant colonels. Don't think the military gives points for longer in the job... or at least I've never ever heard any show anywhere have two colonels compare how long they've been on the job. And on Atlantis, Sheppard is the top military leader. Caldwell on the other hand is not a Lieutenant Colonel so he'd outrank her as well.
It's called time in grade, and yes, whichever was a Lt. Col. longer essentially has the higher rank. While you might not have heard any show compare how long someone was an officer of a particular rank, in the real life military it makes all the difference.
As for making grade in the Air Force, it is widely know in the military that the Air Force is the hardest of all branches to make grade in. You can be a Lt. Col for 10 years without making grade..weather you think you deserve it or not.
Anonymous said:
I hope she does leave both shows. She has killed my respect for her and I no longer will believe her capable of playing a character of integrity and senior officer in the ariforce.
She's quite capable; it's called acting, ya know? You don't have to be a drug addict to portray one; you don't have to be a soldier to portray one. Not that AT isn't a person of integrity, mind you. Probably more so than you who "pretends" to have been a fan only to be turned away by her behavior. Right!
And, Joe, my Grannie says she isn't going to "pass on" until she finds out WHY Jack left SG-1 and what he's doing now. She wants to see it in the show. She doesn't surf the 'Net so you can't just talk about it on-line. Not that I don't love the old gal a great deal, but she's 93 and getting a bit crabby. I'd be ever so grateful if you could make my visits to the nursing home a little easier by freakin' telling us within the context of the show WHY Jack decided to take a desk job.
You would have my eternal gratitude.
Joseph Mallozi Said"
"so its ridiculous to suggest "we wouldn't know what to do with her character". HOWEVER, taken in the general sense, such a statement could apply to season 10 (the overall arc, the individual character storylines) because we can't really start work on season 10 until: a) our deals are in place so that we can begin spinning, b) the actors' deals are in place so that we know for certain who we are writing for. We're still in the preliminary planning stages, so before everybody gets bent out of shape regarding any proposed changes, be aware that, at this point, nothing is written in stone."
Yeah, well apparently you already knew what to do with Daniel, Teal'c, Mitchell, and Vala, seeing as how you had asked them back well before even approaching Amanda Tapping. So that line of reasoning sounds more like a line of bull. And I hope that nothing is "written in stone". Cause like almost everyone else here, I hate the idea of you guys shoving Carter to Atlantis. But from Torri Higginson's latest comments it seems like you guys were getting deep into crossover territory. And not too many fans from either show are too happy about it.
Anonymous said:
"As for making grade in the Air Force, it is widely know in the military that the Air Force is the hardest of all branches to make grade in. You can be a Lt. Col for 10 years without making grade..weather you think you deserve it or not."
All true. And, for the record, the Congressional Medal of Honor is not easy to obtain. The fact they it was "awarded" to Mitchell for getting shot down makes no sense at all. A Purple Heart, sure, but the CMH? As if that's not bad enough, the scene in the episode where he does get the medal implies that everyone involved in the battle would get one. If any people deserved the honor it was SG-1. They performed extraordinary feats of heroism and bravery, often and without hesitation. Giving it to Mitchell just looked cheap.
Hey Joe, I fogot to say congratulations on the next seasons!! Ben is a fabulous addition to Stargate!! I am so excited to know that I will get to see him again an other year! Still wish Ford was coming back so will you please pass that along to the other TPTB? The shows are great the way they are, please don't change them. Love you......Purple.....PS please don't kill Lorne! He is so full of personallity, sorry just had to say that again. cheese (big smile)
minigeek said:
Which actually bodes BETTER for the friendship angle, because conflict drives dramatic narrative. If Carter and Vala start off sparring and end up friends, it'll be a lot more fun to follow/watch than if they embraced like long-lost siblings from the moment they met. Especially considering Vala's personality would lend itself so well to an adversarial kind of friendship with someone like Sam. Vala could teach Carter a few things about loostening up; Carter could teach Vala a few things about believing in herself again, and recovering some of the personal-integrity she's had to relinquish vis-a-vis her trial(s) as a Goa'uld host, and later as a total outcast because of it.
I think one of the primary reasons Vala sought out Daniel so vehemently was because he was probably one of a very few souls (if not the only soul) to understand who she really was (to see her so-called "negative" qualities for what they are) yet still treat her with some semblance of dignity and respect even so. Vala's had to swallow her integrity for so long, she'll probably need to rediscover what it's like to feel real trust and friendship again before she can start to get any of it back. To that end, I think an adversarial relationship with Carter would be a lot of fun before they became friends (and even during the process). Especially if the two of them are going to co-exist as series regulars. Very cool conflict.
-----------------------------------
This is true and I totally agree. First of all, Sam wasn't saying it to be snooty. She was saying it because Mitchell was making the comment about "the band" and Vala was IN THE BACKGROUND - you know, physically behind them. It wasn't a slam on Vala. She was (deliberately) hanging back, but still in SG-1 gear.
Anywho... back to what minigeek said: It wouldn't ring true if Vala and Sam gabbed like two church ladies right off the bat. In their line of work, they get gruff, they get dirty, and they don't take crap.
So why should they take it from each other?
In the end, it'd be nice to see these two characters (and actors) go beyond the online prejudices that have been established and coexist as two strong women. The show needs it. And I think we need it, too.
There's a lot that can be accomplished with AT, CB and great writing at the helm of such a tumultuous topic. I mean, bringing them together could also bridge the cavernous gap between some of the factions in fandom.
But, in the end, fandom diplomacy isn't really an issue here, is it? :)
~ DoS
A Said at 5:02 a.m.:
- "Carter isn’t needed on Atlantis. Everything she could offer is already covered by another character, she would outrank Sheppard and probably McKay too in a way."
Well Mitchell is not needed on SG1 since everything SG1 needed was already there with Sam, Teal'c and Daniel and we got stuck with Mitchell anyway (square peg round hole kind of thing) so I would not hold out hope that Carter won't be on SGA since obviously even if someone is not needed but some PTB somewhere decides that's the way it is going to be, then that's the way it is going to be and damn the consequences of a show that no longer makes logical sense and disappoints many long-time fans (fans who helped keep this show on the air for 9 years)in sooo many ways.
It is sad and pathetic, especially when it appears that Carter is being shipped off to SGA for part of S10 to make room for: (1) the new male lead, who is overshadowed, and made to look incompetent and inexperienced in offworld missions and Gate travel, by the strong, competent, female lead of Samantha Carter, and (2) a new female character that is nothing but cheap, crass sexual inuendo jokes and a caricature of everything that is wrong with many sci-fi shows and movies.
- At 5:02 a.m. A also said about Stargate Atlantis and why he/she feels Carter should NOT be on SGA:
"Let’s focus on this team and their struggles and their backgrounds. They have become something like a family in the time they depended on each other."
Sounds like you are talking about SG1 only they had 8 years to become "a family" not to mention the fact that they saved each others butts, and the world, dozens of times - the same arguments/concepts apply to the team of Sam, Teal'c and Daniel and why Mitchell, as written, makes no sense.
A also said:
"What could she possibly do in Atlantis all day long? She doesn’t know anything about the Wraith, the others have far more experience with them."
Again same arguments can be, and have been, made for SG1 if you just replace she with he (Mitchell), Atlantis with SG1 and Wraith with off-world missions, Gate Travel and aliens, and you are talking about Mitchell and why he is not needed, currently serves no purpose, on SG1.
These arguments did not work for SG1 as we are stuck with Mitchell so I doubt it will work for SGA. Carter belongs on SG1 full-time "to make full use of the character's potential" since this is a core, integral, lead character that has been on the show since it's inception, including as the sole leader of the SG1 team.
Not to mention the fact, as Joe Mallozzi pointed out in one of his early posts above, that "she's not only the science expert, but the stargate expert (not to mention the most experienced when it comes to off-world exploration)."
In addition, as Joe Mallozzi pointed out above: "Furthermore, if off-world experience is the only qualification for leading a team, then the individual members of SG-1 (Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, and O'Neill) should have been leading their own teams long ago."
Carter should be leading her own team by now - ooops wait she DID - for a full season as sole leader of SG1 - and she still should - nothing has changed with Carter, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, knew she was coming back so it was not a surprise that could not have been addressed with the way the story was written for S9 - the whole problem is that some PTB somewhere needed a male lead so you fit that square peg into that round hole at any cost - and for SG1 the cost has been high, IMO, credibility being at the top of the list.
Binkpmmc
"And to tell the truth, I see a lot more potential for Vala/Dr Lam friendship than Vala/Sam. Carter called Vala a "backup singer", remember?"
Yes, and that one little line has created a frenzy of fans convinced that OMG! Sam hates Vala! Amazing, really. Talk about projecting cattiness.
Lam could use more character development first, because she spends most of her time right now rolling her eyes at her daddy. Can we develop her beyond that and show that she's a competent doctor?
It's funny, Vala was making jokes about Cam and Teal'c getting squished in Avalon (to which Daniel actually told her to get f***** - seriously, watch the scene :D) yet no-one seems to have issues with 'her hating Teal'c or Cam'. Bit of a double standard?
hi there Joe,
i hope that you guys there at the studios treat amanda and sam with the respect she has earned and give her command of SG-1... She deserves it more that Cameron, she has seniority in the off world field....
i am going to the Sydney Convention tomorrow to meet Torr, RSF and Alexis... i cant wait and i have to thank you for Window of Opportunity (you guys started the S/J thing) now FINISH it...
I completely agree. I think Sam should be given command of SG-1. I like Mitchell; I like Ben Browder. Mitchell came in wanting to learn from the best. Well, let him learn from the best---let this be his story. At this point half way through the season, the reasoning behind him being the leader is not resonating with many fans---and that is because it makes no sense. There is no good reason that he should lead, given what the writers have given us so far. And the Congressional Medal of Honor just doesn't fly. Mitchell is a great pilot, but has little off-world experience, and none when he arrived. And he has been written very inconsistently, sometimes actually showing incompetence for the sake of the plot. This is not fair to BB. He could do so much more if he was not "leading the band", but learning from the band. I really hope TPTB will reconsider this leadership issue and give Sam command of SG-1. The plausibility of this storyline is so hard so swallow. I'm trying because I like Mitchell, but it isn't working storywise.
Cathy
Agent Dark said...
It's funny, Vala was making jokes about Cam and Teal'c getting squished in Avalon (to which Daniel actually told her to get f***** - seriously, watch the scene :D) yet no-one seems to have issues with 'her hating Teal'c or Cam'. Bit of a double standard?
Here's is Vala's line from Avalon:
VALA: Look, I didn't hear any screaming or squishing sounds. So…
and here's Carter's line from Beachhead:
CARTER: *looks back at Vala, quietly* Uh so what's with the extra backup singer?
and now tell me the very subtle difference between them.
Vala, like Daniel was worried about Teal'c and Cam. And it was her way of assuring Daniel that they ARE OK. Perhaps her words reminded Daniel about something else (I don't know how his parents died, for instance), so this "get f***** from him (although I didn't notice it personally) were about it.
Carter's "backup singer" comment is nothing else like being mean.
:D How about this months entry being the top one, it's getting there well already.
Hope the negotiations go well; I don't really know why people in the fandom are taking the rumours flying about so seriously...
Oh and if you want any more recommendations for shows, how about Boston Legal... William Shatner, James Spader and other talented actors. It's crazy, especially the character of Alan Shore, but also often thought provoking. Only slight hitch is the DVD of season 1 isn't out on Amazon.com yet, it's listed for December 31... of 1969! Didn't know DVD's went that far back. ;)
People are taking the rumors seriously because of all the declarations about how great, awesome, and fun New Stargate is. After so much push for new characters, new storylines, and new everything else, after how much fun everything is, and how things are better than ever, people are becoming very wary. Season nine hasn't been too enthralling for many fans. And for many of us, too many mistakes have been made this year to simply hand over blind faith to the writers. O'neill's botched exit, the botched command debacle, Teal'c's lack of screentime, Mitchell's often idiotic behavior, Vala's dominance of the story, an amazing lack of feeling between the characters, and the upcoming immaculate conception are just a few off of the top of my head. Sorry, but now there's hints of unhappiness from actors, and unlike alot of story elements this year, that is very easy to believe. Add to that these insane major crossover rumblings, and the dismissive, prideful attitude expressed by the producers and there's not a whole lot of confidence to go around right now. Sorry, but Joe and the gang have shaken my eight years of confidence in them to an extent I would never have believed a year ago. Right now I'm just hoping they don't ruin a once great show any further.
Neil T.
Kudos Joe for continuing to write to the masses.
I am just happy to see that both SG1 and Atlantis were renewed. I think it is an extraordinary feat to be even able to discuss (hopefully less polemically) the political the hows and whys of Season 10 and Season 2.
As for when, where, and how much screen time everyone gets, I am amazed at how turbulent the fandom is on something we have little to no control over.
The things I would like to express are how much I have enjoyed Atlantis this year, exponentially more than last year; and for SG1, I like Mitchell's character so far. I think he is a needed character after O'Neill's slow disappearing act the last couple of seasons. I am glad you didn't ram Mitchell down our throats, but I do hope to see Mitchell come into his own as you have alluded to in the second half of Season 9. I have seen Farscape and if Mr. Browder can infuse half of that previous energy into Cam Mitchell SG1 can do nothing but benefit from it.
I also enjoyed Vala's banner in her part-time status. Full-time, I think Vala would need to be toned down and honestly Sam is just the woman to do it.
As for Rygel, he is too expensive and his body functions a little to explosive. How about R2D2 or C3PO instead? They should be looking for work about now.
PTQ
You know, Cam didn't come to the SGC with the expectation or desire that he would lead SG1. That was very clear. As others have said, he wanted to learn from the best--the remaining members of SG1. The fact that the team was no longer a team didn't take away his desire, but rather motivated him to get the "band" back together. If he had been some guy trying to get the Beatles back together he would not have expected to be the lead singer, guitarist or songwriter. He just wanted to play in the band and learn from a well established and extremely talented group.
And I totally agree that him receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor is just a cheap trick. Certainly a Purple Heart since he was wounded, and maybe a Bronze Star or something, but the CMH was going so far overboard it was ridiculous. Did Jack and Sam receive CMHs for saving the world how many times? How about civilian equivalents for Daniel and Teal'c? Maybe they all did and I just don't remember. What Cam supposedly did was a day in the park for SG1.
A thought about the time in grade thing from a military vet. While it is true that time in grade and time in service are important (particularly for pay purposes) nobody wears a time and date stamp on their uniform to tell the world exactly how long they have been in service at a particular rank. Sam and Cam and John over at SGA are all Lt. Col.s and I doubt that any of them would spend two seconds worrying about who got what when aside from conveying congratulations to the newly promoted. Goodness knows they all have enough else to worry about. And certainly those subordinate to them are not going to give them more "sirs" or "Ma'ams" or longer salutes. As far as Sam and Cam, we have no idea who was promoted first and by how much time. Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Who knows? Doesn't matter. Sam is still the most qualified and experienced at leading SG1 and should have her command. Cam has acknowledged that she and Daniel and Teal'c are the best. Why can't TPTB? I have no doubt that Cam can be a good leader at some point, but he certainly hasn't shown it yet.
Eve
I've found that the fans that automatically assume that Sam hates Vala from that one line tend to love Vala and dislike Sam. No shock there.
Besides, didn't Daniel tell Vala to shut the hell up in Beachhead? That's much more severe than what Sam said yet those fans would never consider that Daniel hates Vala. After all, they're destined to be the next OTP!
I forgot to say, Joe, that I appreciate you having the guts to face the fans in this way. It is noteworthy that the others are not so brave, particularly those who seem to have come up with some of the more lamebrained ideas floating around here. Do they even have the nerve to read this blog I wonder? Oh well...carry on, and try to get them to come to their senses.
Eve
I've found that the fans that automatically assume that Sam hates Vala from that one line tend to love Vala and dislike Sam. No shock there.
Besides, didn't Daniel tell Vala to shut the hell up in Beachhead? That's much more severe than what Sam said yet those fans would never consider that Daniel hates Vala. After all, they're destined to be the next OTP!
After Carter returned in Beachhead, everybody (Daniel, Mitchell, even Teal'c) started acting like total morons. Plus, the episode was written by another Carter's fan...
OTP - what's that?
Hey Joe,
Any word on whether or not you're coming back next season?
~DoS
Yes, Eve, but you see, Ben Browder is a man, and therefore the leader. Ask any of our wonderful writers, even the magnanimous Joe Mallozzi; men don't take orders from women.
The sad thing is, it really is that plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the Carter character, it has nothing to do with the Mitchell character. No matter how much certain fans want it to be. It has everything to do with the fact that Amanda Tapping is a woman and Ben Browder is a man.
To anonymous at 2:33PM---Yep, you nailed that one on the head. Sad but true. Now I have seen the light and will never again try to lead any man anywhere, since I do not possess the necessary equipment.
Aloha, Eve
All I can figure is that the producers honestly believed that we, as an audience, needed to see a male lead as much as they did. And contrary to what Joe has said elsewhere, I don't think it ever occurred to them that the leadership of SG-1 would ever be an issue. I think they believed that maybe the Sam Carter fans would be upset and disappointed, but that everyone else would basically accept it. And from the people I've spoken to, that's just not the case. There are a lot of Team fans who feel that someone as blatantly inexperienced as Mitchell leading Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel is entirely unbelievable. As Joe said in one of his comments, any one of SG-1 should be leading a team. So, what then, Mitchell is just so hypnotic of a figure that Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel will blindly follow a character who has been portrayed in the series as a fool? All I can come up with is the producers figured that their coveted young male demographic needed a wise-cracking, impetuous male lead commanding. Well, that and a half nuded-up female prancing around with no purpose. The sad thing is, I am that demographic. And I'm finding the changes poorly written and illogical. Well, it's not so much poorly written as it is not written at all. If a male lead was required, why not write a scene where it's explained why said male lead needs to be there, explain what he brings to the team? Why not explain where Jack O'neill is? Do the producers think fans will just forget about all of these important issues? What we've gotten in season nine is lazy, sloppy writing. I'm not surprised that Michael Shanks and Amanda Tapping aren't discounting other work. If things continue like this, they're going to need it.
Dave Hayes
Hey Dave, it is gratifying for this "clearly not in the desired demographic" long-time fan to hear like thinking from the younger crowd. I'm thinking that there are probably a number of young men like yourself who are similarly insulted by what has been presented to us so far this year. Thanks for letting TPTB know that not all of their desired demographic are happy with the direction they are taking the show.
Eve
The weird/pathetic/disturbing/ironic thing is that Bonnie Hammer (a woman *gasp*) is the President of SciFi.
One would think that THE PRESIDENT would have a say in such issues. I mean, what else does she have to worry about?
Whether or not NBCUniversal will give her some more of USA's scifi leftovers during first run syndication?
Whether they develop an even raunchier series to lead into "Tripping the Rift" in the oh-so-noteworthy Wednesday night time slots?
This is one of three - count 'em, three - cash cows that SciFi has at their disposal. I'd be very surprised if she wasn't aware of the fact that the suggested "target audience" needs to be modified just a tad.
~ DoS
look, i know that it has probably been asked a hundred times, but Sam and Jack...where do they stand. I watched the "not exactly" line for the first time this week and i was in fits of hysterics and hope. Not only that, i was reading a forum the other day and they were going on about movies of stargate like star treck did and if so would they bring Jack back into it? and if so they would have to make Sam and Jack sort out there problems and go so called "fishing". Ok thats with Sam and Jack....what about Daniel and Sarah? where did she go? i hope i am not being too much of a pain in the ass but i am desperate for answers and anyone can email me to give me a clue to what is going to happen!
email: p4x_639@msn.com
I for one am thrilled that Carter's not the CO for SG1 now. Sorry but she proved time and again just how unready she was for that position. As much as I miss Jack and would gladly give up seeing practically the entire cast of SG1 if it meant Jack would come back--I am SOOO glad that at least now we aren't faced with episode after episode after freaking episode of the disgusting 'ship' that started when 'certain' writers signed on board.
If I never see Carter and Jack in a scene together again it will be too soon!
Adding ship to this show killed in a slow and painful way for the last four years--the people that thought it was a good idea to start should have been bitch slapped REPEATEDLY!!
Joe, could you please confirm that Jack is in Washington re-united with his WIFE?
BTW, it would be great to see Jane Harley Kozak again :)
Wow, you people are too pathetic for words. And the person who dreamed up the ship was probably Brad Wright or Rob Cooper, and I don't see anyone "bitch slapping" them anytime soon. If you've convinced yourself that Sam and Jack aren't together, that's fine. But please, the story has been written. It's a part of the show. Fanwank it all you like, but there's no changing the fact that the O'neill and Carter characters have been written as loving each other. Sorry. You lose.
Joe since you tried to reassure the Sam fans in your blog unsuccessfully I might add perhaps in your next blog you could reassure us Atlantis fans because right now you have us very worried. It's pretty obvious the SG1 fans aren't happy with the thought of Sam on Atlantis, well the Atlantis fans I've talked to are very worried. We love our characters and if as you say that Sam comes over for 10 eps where does that leave our characters. They will be pushed into the background. Sam is a very strong character and you want her to have a major role in those eps. We have wonderful characters in Sheppard, McKay, Weir, Dex, Teyla, Beckett and supporting characters in Lorne and Zelenka where would they go if Sam takes over. Are you going to send Shep and his team offworld for those eps so that Sam can do her thing? It won't work and you will alienate the Atlantis fans and I think there will be a backlash against Sam for coming over. Something that AT doesn't deserve. She's done a great job for 9 years on SG1 and deserves to be recognised for that putting her on Atlantis is wrong, unfair to her and unfair the the actors/characters on Atlantis that we love so much. I just hope for once that TPTB listen to the fans because this is obviously not a popular idea. Not all Atlantis fans are SG1 fans and having an SG1 character take over our show isn't going to be popular.
I love futurama, and the Professor just comes out with the wierdest things sometimes!
I can appreciate that skiffy and mgm are pushing for the new and shiny - and not caring if they screw over existing actors and characters in the process...and i can appreciate that the folks at bridge seem to be trying to work out as many compromises as they can - such as the co-leader bit and working to find amanda a way to still be on the show that skiffy and mgm obviously don't want her on
and i can appreciate that Joe has nothing more to do with this than being a go-between
but it still seems odd that 'we have hundreds of stories yet to tell' and 'the possibilities are endless'....and amanda is told 'we dont know what to do with your character'
kinda contradictory
Skiffy is gonna have vala the vulgar as their new leading lady no matter what it costs, and they don't care who they screw over to get it.
And stargate is going to die, a slow and painful death as idiots in suits with peas for brains circumvent the creativity and vision of people who make the shows.
I'm glad you guys are trying to find a home for Amanda and Sam...but you know, i very really hope that she tells skiffy to shove it where the sun don't shine. It'll serve them right.
Here's one thought for the masses.
If you look between the lines of any Vala and Daniel fans, the reason why they want Carter gone (along with the actor who plays her), is because
in their heart of hearts they want both of these characters to be on Atlantis.
In a way I can understand why Daniel fans want him to be there. But what earthly reason why any fans of SGA would want Vala there?
LaCroix
Yes, Eve, but you see, Ben Browder is a man, and therefore the leader. Ask any of our wonderful writers, even the magnanimous Joe Mallozzi; men don't take orders from women.
The sad thing is, it really is that plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the Carter character, it has nothing to do with the Mitchell character. No matter how much certain fans want it to be. It has everything to do with the fact that Amanda Tapping is a woman and Ben Browder is a man.
Yep. the co-leaders was a compromise. mitch could appear to be the boss to mollify skiffy and Sam could appear to be the boss to mollify the fans.
And sharing Sam with atlantis is yet another compromise. Bridge is trying to treat one of thier own fairly while the morons at scifi and mgm do thier best to screw her over.
VALA IS NOT VULGAR, you hypocrite!!!
Joe a little post from the Sony Boards that I made:
I used to read J/D slash, right up until the J/S ship started slowly creeping it's way into the authors writings. Then I stopped. Why, because I started reading posts at various lists and fourms by the same authors becoming very
bitter about the whole J/S issue on the show.
This is still happening right up to this day and I find it very uncomfortable.
Of couse that thread is locked right now (No Sam in S10).
LaCroix
Compromises are a dangerous thing; once you start, it's hard to stop, and they only get bigger and more intrusive until pretty soon, you're left with an unrecognizable muddle of nothing wrapped in a pretty pink bow in order to mollify... er... the fans of pretty pink bows. ;)
Anonymous wrote;
VALA IS NOT VULGAR, you hypocrite!!!
How old are you anyway? Clearly the person who made the comment thinks Vala is vulgar - an opinion to which they are entitled. I also think Vala is vulgar. Deal with it.
" I also think Vala is vulgar. Deal with it"
And how old are you?
Anonymous wrote:
VALA IS NOT VULGAR...
Nope, not vulgar. Crass, but not vulgar. She's also a bit of a tramp, hussy, floozy, etc. I want her to have some redeeming traits, but if she does then they've been completely glossed over.
She's also apparently quite callous and possesses questionable morals. She left the crew of the Prometheus to die in the cold blackness of space. She was willing to compromise Daniel's health and well being simply for the possibility of "treasure". She also apparently seduced Arlos so that she could rob him blind, and while he seemed to not have a problem with it, it still doesn't speak too well about her. She also managed enslave a people AFTER she was de-goa'ulded. So, in my view, there's not much about Vala that's not sad and unworthy.
Yet this is the model for the "new" SG1 team member. What has the show become?
Yeah I see where you're coming from. Even in the early seasons Mayborne always seemed to be doing what he thought was best for earth. Maybe the way he was protecting earth was wrong, but he had the right intentions. Same thing with kinsey. In politics you at least believe that he wants the gate shut down for teh good of mankind. The tokra also had that antagonist thing going on, but always managed to be doing it for good reason. Hell the trust was doing its activities for the good of mankind. Vala is simply out for Vala and for no one else. There is no sense that she's got any good intentions beyond what is good for herself.
Dave Hayes
It's a part of the show. Fanwank it all you like, but there's no changing the fact that the O'neill and Carter characters have been written as loving each other. Sorry. You lose.
*snort* Sorry I lose?? Pffft! I didn't lose anything. They've had Jack "admit" feelings for Carter ONCE--in S4...since then it's ALL been Carter. It's pathetic and honestly it makes me feel laugh that people think it's true love *gag* If Jack ever loved Carter as much as the shippers think he does he would have gladly given up his career for her, or had her transferred somewhere else so they could be together.
The writers left it WIDE open--so you can live in lala land believing they're together but the rest of us will be quite content believing he told her to once again to get a life.
Yes, you "make me feel laugh", too. But not the funny kind of "laugh".
Ship is one-sided? Wide open, eh?
Divide and Conquer:
SAM: Something neither one of us can admit, given our working relationship, our military ranks....
JACK: Oh! (Pause) Oh, that.
*later*
JACK: (I couldn't leave her behind) Because I care about her (Sam)... a lot more than I'm supposed to.
Citizen Joe: JOE (to Jack): And don’t worry – I won’t say a word about your feelings for ... (At that moment Sam walks in. Jack raises a finger to Joe warningly.)
Threads: KERRY (to Jack): Is the Air Force the only thing keeping you two apart? Rules and regulations? 'cause if it is, you’re making a very big mistake.
Hmm. Yeah...you're right. Ship only exists in Sam's poor little deluded mind and in the minds of the legion of fans who enjoy watching it too.
*cough*
Mary Beth
Anonymous @ 7:55 am said:
Joe, could you please confirm that Jack is in Washington re-united with his WIFE? BTW, it would be great to see Jane Harley Kozak again :)
You know, you might make a more convincing argument that you actually are a big fan of the Sara O'Neill character and the Jack/Sara relationship if you actually got the actress's name correct. BTW - while it would be great to see her on screen again, Harley Jane Kozak is not really acting much anymore. Instead, she has become quite a successful writer and just released her second novel last year. So, personally, I don't see that ship happening anytime in the near future.
Mr. Mallozzi - is there any way the writers could acknowledge what happened to Jack and what is going on with his relationship (or lack thereof) with Sam in Season 10? I have been watching Season Nine and I do like many aspects of it, including many of the new characters. But I find my enjoyment diminished by the fact that the writers continue to string the shippers along. No offence - I know you all have good intentions and are trying to please all of the different groups of fans by making the issue as vague as possible. After a while, however, the lack of resolution just gets irritating. Now that Jack is gone and most likely will not be coming back, I would suggest that it is time to cut the string and let the shippers off the hook. You need to briefly acknowledge whether Jack and Sam are together or not. Please, just make a decision one way or the other and then you will never have to bring it up again and we can all move on.
Personally, I will be happy either way as long as there is some sort of closure. Maybe then I will be able to enjoy the new show for what it is instead of longing for some resolution for character arcs that you all just left hanging after the end of Season 8. I know all of the writers believe they have more important stories to tell right now, but you should never start something you do not intend to finish. Thanks for being brave enough to enter the fandom fray. If I were in your position, I would not have the courage to do so.
Ack, the UST/ship has been nuts forever. The one kiss that wasn't AU or alt timeline was in a daydream Carter was having WITHIN a hallucination during a concussion. According to the dvd commentary, they had a poll or something on what the fans wanted, and the audience was so split they did this weird dream within a dream.
S9's "not exactly" can be fanwanked to still having post-Pete issues and caring for Cassie or racking up frequent flier miles between DC and Area 51.
Suffice to say, there's evidence for both the shippers and non-shippers to hang their hats on. Neither side is going to convince the other, and any further mention by TPTB either establishing or rejecting the ship is going to alienate the fans rooting for the alternative.
I'm so sick of the whole debate and the moving towards ship and then backing away by TPTB that I don't care one way or the other anymore.
shipsucks said:
"but the rest of us will be quite content believing he told her to once again to get a life"
My, just how many imaginary cohorts ARE bouncing around in your head? I see you use the term "believing", which is good, because at least you're aware that it's an entirely made up scenario that you're describing. At least you recognize that it's a faith-based kind of thing, where you'll never ever get any sort of support for the trash you're peddling as truth.
I understand not liking ship or not liking Sam/Jack, but to deny it exists is just plain wacko. Tell me, when you read books, articles, magazines, hell, when you read anything, do you gloss over story points and pertinent facts just because you find them distasteful? Do you really not see the meaning behind words written on a page or scenes acted out on stage? It is the most bizzare thing I've ever heard.
Do you "believe" SG1 is still fighting Apophis because you don't like Anubis? Do you "believe" Jonas never existed because Daniel eventually came back? Do you "believe" that Janet Frasier is still the base doctor despite her death? These questions aren't insults or jokes, but we're talking THAT level of denial, absurd as it may be, when you say that "the writers left it wide open".
Sheesh, this online fandom thing is a wonder to behold.
Ahhh, the dreaded ship.
Unfortunately, the actions that transpired post-Divide and Conquer were a result of compromising.
While the c-word was most likely done with the best interests of everyone at heart, it seemed to cause even more problems for the fandom and for TPTB in the long-run.
It's always been such a huge problem, because basically the two factions had conflicting aspects of canon to use at their disposal in the deadliest of fandom wars.
"It's canon that Jack said this," "it's canon that Sam said that," "it was IMPLIED (the worst of them all) that THESE feelings were conveyed..."
If a decision had simply been made, both clearly and directly, one of the two groups wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. Sure, they probably still would've grumbled and complained, but a decision would have been made by you guys. Period.
Plus, it would've saved you ALL the headache of trying to decide how much or how little angst should be in a line or shot.
Having lines, scenes or entire episodes where any fan could "read into it what they want" is, on the surface, a nice way of handling the issue. However, in reality, all it does is deepen the confusion.
I only say this because there seems to be some of this in Atlantis, too. Only NOW there are 3x more "couples" to choose from.
And while hardcore Atlantis fans don't seem to be NEARLY as high-strung as SG-1 fans, this could become a pretty insane problem by, let's say, the fourth season...
Are you guys honestly trying to convey some John/Elizabeth shippiness, or is that all in our heads? Or is Elizabeth getting some nooky from Rodney? Is there some weird Teyla/Ronon or John/Teyla thing going on, or are we all just crazy? What about McKay and Beckett? Teyla and Beckett? What about Beckett and John? What about Elizabeth and Beckett? John and McKay? Does Elizabeth have the hots for Caldwell? Does Ronon for Elizabeth?
OK, I guess you can just stop right there. The REAL question should probably be this: Is Atlantis going to turn into one intergalactic orgy before it's all said and done?
If so, it's great to plan these things ahead, because I don't think even THIS fandom can handle that kind of trauma.
~DoS
SG-1 turned into a shippy nightmare that managed to piss off pretty much everyone- shipper, anti, and noromo alike. So why even mess around with it on Atlantis? Haven't you guys learned your lesson?
You don't need to add shippy moments- fans who want to can see them just fine without you putting up blinking neon signs that say SHIP. And the best part is that fans who don't want to see it aren't subjected to blatant attempts at shippyness that could potentially ruin a moment/episode for them.
IMO, ship on BOTH shows should be fanon, not canon. 'Cause once you start messing around even with the open-to-interpretation stuff, you're going to set yourself on a path with only one destination: compromise. I personally don't want to see Atlantis's integrity compromised just so some shipper faction can be appeased. It should be about what's best for the show, not what some group of fans dictates should happen.
And if having no romantic entanglements seems too unrealistic, well, hello, that's what the secondary and tertiary characters are for! ;) There's no rule that says you have to ship the main characters and it might be nice if, for once, someone somewhere decided to do what was realistic instead of what was expected.
The writers have partically stood on their heads to make the ship as vague as possible which is part of the reason I never cared for it. They never committed really to the story. And it made Sam look silly and indecisive at times imo.
There is a lot of wiggle room and space for differing interpretations. Shippers will see what they want regardless--a brush of a hand means...whatever you want it to.
The problem is when people start telling others that they MUST see it and acknowledge it. Who cares if someone else doesn't see it like you? How does that harm your enjoyment of the show? I don't get it.
Joe,
IMO, you guys messed up, plain and simple and the onw to suffer for this will be AT/Carter. Over the last 2 years, specifically, you've written Sam in a way which has caused a certain percentage of fans to dislike the character. The writers did this -- no else -- and now you aren't sure what to do with the character. Isn't that what writers do? Figure out characters?
Since Skiffy, MGM and Sony, individually or collectively, now want Claudia Black on the show, you're thinking of having Carter appear on both SG-1 and SGA, which leaves room for Vala to own the screen on SG-1 and have Carter take screen time away from some of the characters already established on SGA -- a move guaranteed to upset those fans who've really come to like SGA and identify with *those* characters, not to mention the fans who like Carter and want *her* to continue as a main cast member on SG-1. About the only people who are happy about this are the Claudia Black fans and the Uber Daniel fans who think more of Vala means more of Daniel and Vala.
Anyway you look at it, this possible move puts AT/Carter in a position to be resented more. I really hope you don't do this; if you really were talented writers, you could figure out a way to have both Claudia and Sam on the same show; it's not an either/or thing. Needless to say, I don't think Vala should be a member of SG-1.
Daragh Gibsom
IMO, ship on BOTH shows should be fanon, not canon. 'Cause once you start messing around even with the open-to-interpretation stuff, you're going to set yourself on a path with only one destination: compromise. I personally don't want to see Atlantis's integrity compromised just so some shipper faction can be appeased. It should be about what's best for the show, not what some group of fans dictates should happen.
And if having no romantic entanglements seems too unrealistic, well, hello, that's what the secondary and tertiary characters are for! ;) There's no rule that says you have to ship the main characters and it might be nice if, for once, someone somewhere decided to do what was realistic instead of what was expected.
HERE HERE!
These are SCIFI shows--they don't NEED ship. I just hope the writers realize that with Atlantis so that we aren't faced with the same kind of shit that went on and is STILL going on in the SG1 fandom. If ever there was a reason to run screaming from fandom it's the whole fanatic shipper aspect--whether it's those who are jumping up and down on their soap boxes screaming that Jack and Carter are in love or the ones doing the same demanding that they aren't.
Adding ship to SG1 was a stupid move that has caused nothing but headaches in fandom and the worst part is from listening to the commentaries there are those writers who seem to be shippers themselves and are happily letting what that one part of fandom think/demand determine what the rest of us see on the show.
For the love of the Atlantis fandom's sanity leave the ship OUT of this show--PLEASE!!!!!
THAT level of denial..."writers left it wide open."
I don't think they were talking about denying that the writers made it obvious with Carter--I think they were referring to the way the "ship" was left. There was NO closer whatsoever with it and THAT has left it WIDE OPEN. Which I agree with--it was left open to interpretation at the end. The shippers are left to "believe" if they so choose that Jack and Carter are off doing whatever and those who didn't/don't like the ship are left to "believe" that nothing happened between them.
Also...your questions--WERE insulting and down right rude. Just because this person doesn't see ship the same as you do (and there are LOTS of people that see it the way this person does) does NOT make him/her delusional. The ship in the show was ambiguous at best. The scenes where something actually happened were 1)something Jack alone knew about and could choose not to act on (WoO) and 2)Carter's hallucination in Grace--it did NOT happen--it happened IN HER HEAD. These feelings that are brought up by Kerry? Does Jack actually say "You're right, I do have feelings for Carter--or you're right I shouldn't let the airforce stand between us"? NO he doesn't say anything about these feelings at all...so the shippers can jump up and down but those who don't see the ship see that scene as KERRY believing Jack has feelings for Carter but he doesn't admit to them.
So yeah sorry but the writers HAVE left things pretty wide open in the end.
ship? we don't need no stinking ship! said:
"These are SCIFI shows--they don't NEED ship."
That's right, we need space battles. And space ships. And some cool sexy aliens. And some super cool martial arts sequences. And some of that bad drama, what do they call it, melodrama? Some more clocks ticking down would be cool too, you know, add to the "drama". Scifi is all about the CGI, not stupid character stuff. I want ray guns and sword fights (don't ask me how those two go together), not angst or characters having feelings, ship or otherwise. Come on, producers, how about a little less depth! I don't want to think too much when I tune in.
ship? we don't need no stinking ship! also said:
"For the love of the Atlantis fandom's sanity leave the ship OUT of this show--PLEASE!!!!!"
I wouldn't bet on it. Like it or not, there is no avoiding those super secret tv formulas that are used to make every single show. There WILL be ship on Atlantis. If it lasts long enough, that is. It's unavoidable. Trust me, Skiffy wants it. Maybe not yet, but they do want it. It's sure to rile people up. Just look at what it's done to you.
leaveatlantisalone! said:
Also...your questions--WERE insulting and down right rude. Just because this person doesn't see ship the same as you do (and there are LOTS of people that see it the way this person does) does NOT make him/her delusional. The ship in the show was ambiguous at best.
I know. Do you think I wrote it that way by accident? And as far as ambiguity goes, that ain't it. Whether or not Hamlet is crazy is ambiguous. Whether Reese was shutting down the replicators in Menace is ambiguous. Whether on not O'neill loves Carter is not ambiguous. I'll grant you that the whole ship/antiship thing has involved some of grossest incidents of fanwanking I've ever encountered. But it has been written that Carter and O'neill care for each other. No matter how much or how little anyone wants that, it does not change the fact that it's there in the story. Denying that is purposefully misreading/misinterpreting what you're being presented with. And the more emphatically you deny it, the more out of touch and yes, delusional, you sound.
Good SciFi needs both - well written ship (I hope it for Daniel and Vala in the future) and space battles, or maybe rather as many different planets, creatures and cultures as possible, less space battles - leave them for teenage boys, I'm a grownup woman and this kind of stuff was OK for me 20 years ago.
shadowmaat said:
You don't need to add shippy moments- fans who want to can see them just fine without you putting up blinking neon signs that say SHIP. And the best part is that fans who don't want to see it aren't subjected to blatant attempts at shippyness that could potentially ruin a moment/episode for them.//
there's no reason to play a romantic entanglement ambiguously, just like it's not necessary when showing a firefight or a briefing room scene. filming/writing scenes bland so one group isn't bothered is lame and lazy writing (and chickensh*t).
//And if having no romantic entanglements seems too unrealistic, well, hello, that's what the secondary and tertiary characters are for! ;) There's no rule that says you have to ship the main characters and it might be nice if, for once, someone somewhere decided to do what was realistic instead of what was expected.//
well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that.
ship? we don't need no stinking ship! said:
These are SCIFI shows--they don't NEED ship. I just hope the writers realize that with Atlantis so that we aren't faced with the same kind of shit that went on and is STILL going on in the SG1 fandom. If ever there was a reason to run screaming from fandom it's the whole fanatic shipper aspect--whether it's those who are jumping up and down on their soap boxes screaming that Jack and Carter are in love or the ones doing the same demanding that they aren't. //
and the ones that have screamed against it the loudest and for the longest ARE shippers, they just want the ship to be with daniel and jack instead of sam and jack. now, i know not 'all' anti s/j ppl think that way, but the *vast* majority of the time it's this equation.
for me, i enjoy ship. i always have and always will. but tv shows stretch things out to mammoth proportions and frustrate a LOT of fans. so for as much as i love ship, i would have appreciated it if they would have pulled back on the 'will they/won't they' some time ago. just deal with the issue and move along.
ambiguous has become a dirty word for me now. and seeing as they've went past using the A word for just ship now (who's the real team leader? where's jack?), i'm ready for those answers now. NOW. did i mention now?
sally :)
Hey Joe,
Season nine--not the best. The new guy on the show is pretty lame. I hope things get better when Carter gets back. Will Jack O'neill be in any episodes this season?
well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that.
I'm sorry, exactly WHERE did I say that companionship was abnormal?
What's wrong with having relationships with non-main characters? Because of that bullshit about how people only care about the leads? How fans can't develop an emotional bond with a character who isn't in every ep? I can think of fans of a dozen different secondary characters who would beg to differ on that point. If the characters are written well enough, it doesn't matter how often they appear- fans will still love 'em (or hate 'em).
And having the main characters ALWAYS fall in love is at least as "abnormal" as having it never happen. ;)
I guess the better question is: why do we let someone else's opinion of the ship ruin out own enjoyment of the show?
If you just want to read opinions of people who feel the same way as you do about ship, there are lists/threads that allow you to do that to your heart's content. When you come to a general type discussion board, you have to expect that there will be many different interpretations of the very same episode.
And what does it matter what the person's fan fic perferences are--there are Sam fans in the SAGC thread at GW who are love Sam, but don't like the ship. When you start automatically assuming that you know a person's motivation, that's when communication completely breaks down. I have never slashed a day in my life and I have talked to several nonshippers that haven't either.
People just like what they like. What if I said that ship on Stargate was so badly done that only pathetic losers with no lovelife of their own could like it? Or that all shippers sign their letters to the PTB, "Sam and Jack 4eva" with pink glitter pens? Kind of silly and no, I don't believe that.
I have been a Sam fan, but I think the character has taken a few hits over the last couple of years by being mainly associated with her love life, so I wish they would have not gone there rather than do it so badly.
Other people like the storyline. Why would I waste time arguing with them when we both just have our perferences? Why would I let it ruin my day that they think Sam is great and I have issues? Doesn't make sense to me.
Discussion and even disagreement can be worthwhile, but what I don't understand is the personal nature of the attacks on people with other viewpoints.
Why does the desperation to be "right" and be validated by the powers that be preclude us from being decent to each other?.
(backing slowly away from the soapbox)
Chio
sally said: well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that.//
shadowmaat said: I'm sorry, exactly WHERE did I say that companionship was abnormal?//
you didn't. and i didn't say you did.
//What's wrong with having relationships with non-main characters? Because of that bullshit about how people only care about the leads? How fans can't develop an emotional bond with a character who isn't in every ep? I can think of fans of a dozen different secondary characters who would beg to differ on that point. If the characters are written well enough, it doesn't matter how often they appear- fans will still love 'em (or hate 'em).//
there's nothing wrong with ship being between the secondary characters, but if it's 'only' being done between the secondaries because you don't want to 'bother' the fans that don't want too much of it done with the leads, then there's something hinky with that sort of reasoning. well, hinky and unfair. to me.
//And having the main characters ALWAYS fall in love is at least as "abnormal" as having it never happen. ;)//
what? :p
sally :)
I agree. Always having the leading guy/gal fall in love is a cliche. And you know how I feel about cliches... ;)
But I think the point here is that there actually was such a chemistry between the actors that they decided to play off of what was there.
I know, I know...not everyone sees that chemistry or feels that zing.
But for those of us that do, it's a great flavoring to an already great show...an added layer of depth for them to care about each other but put duty and responsibility above all else.
So now with just Carter there fulltime and knowing that ship will have no bearing on the team or the order of things, why not have shippy moments spread throughout the season next year? At this point, it can only be a positive thing as it will validate what they both went through (especially Sam because the focus was so heavily on her side) and make TPTB look good for being true to what they wrote.
So bring on Kickbutt!Sam next year...and throw in some shippy moments here and there as a nod to the fans that we all didn't go through the emotional rollercoaster in vain. Otherwise, what was the point of it all?
Mary Beth
But it has been written that Carter and O'neill care for each other. No matter how much or how little anyone wants that, it does not change the fact that it's there in the story. Denying that is purposefully misreading/misinterpreting what you're being presented with. And the more emphatically you deny it, the more out of touch and yes, delusional, you sound.
I've been called worse. (And, I know that was addressed to someone else, but if the shoe fits) I agree that the show has certainly strongly hinted these things, and I don't believe the show meant to suggest Joe Spencer was talking about Daniel/Thor/Mary Steenburgen/ or anyone else but Sam (it's classic visual story telling). But, I don't think it's been unequivocalbly (yes, I realize it might be spelled wrong) stated that Jack and Sam are in love. Because isn't that what people mean when they say that it's canon that Jack and Sam care about each other? They don't mean that they just care. I think that's a given, among all the members of SG1. Even the most stringent anti shippers (me included) wouldn't argue against that. I don't think even the most stringent anti-shippers would argue against the actual words in D&C (just the interpretation of what those words mean). Some of us just believe that Jack caring for someone more than he should doesn't stop with Sam, but included Daniel and Teal'c, all in a loving or platonic way. But, I think the show has been very careful never to write specifically into the show that Jack and Sam are in love, although, as I said, they've done some intricate dance moves hinting at it. Gene Kelly would be proud.
well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that.
I don't want ship among the main cast of SG1 (at least not written into the show. Fanfiction, bring it on. Personal interpretations, I'm all for) but that does not mean I think that the characters are androids. It just means that I don't think romantic companionship is a vital criteria for humanness. Because they all have companionship. At least in the best, imo, interpretation of the show, each person has three of the dearest companions (and, I guess Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c could one day be thought to have 4 of the dearest companions, once their relationships with Mitchell develop more) that they could ever have, even if it's not romantic.
So, no, just because a person would rather not see ship isn't because they want robotic, non emotional people.
"well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that."
Not to belabor the point, but this struck a chord.
One of the things that turned me off the ship was that the caring between ALL the characters sort of diminished after the introduction of feelings between O'Neill and Carter. It didn't have to, but it seemed like the writers couldn't have Jack and Sam as close with Daniel and Teal'c anymore as if that would somehow disminish the feelings that they were trying to sell.
Oh, there were a few nice moments over the years, but the team as family feel was missing.
I have to add on to the above post.
When the writers didn't try and write in shippy moments, but let the actors sneak in the subtext, I liked the relationship between Jack and Sam. When they started to write it in, it seemed just tacked on and it changed the chemistry of the show.
dani347 said:
"I agree that the show has certainly strongly hinted..."
I think that's simply a matter of semantics and that you're just parsing words, but whatever. Either way, given these "strong hints", aren't the non- or anti-shippers the ones who are being placated? If it were just one or two occaisons where said hints had been inserted into the dialog or scenes or physical storytelling (as you put it), then I might agree that it isn't clear, but after nine years of hinting at the same thing it is laughable that people are willing themselves to not see what's in front of them. I'd be a lot more pissed off if I were against Sam/Jack than for it, because if I were I'd KNOW that *I* was the one being patronized with ambiguity. Because it's just not that ambiguous at all. Not at this point.
Hey, if patronization means no actual on screen confession of being in love, no wedding, no Daniel and Teal'c telling Sam to say hello to Jack at the end of an episode, nothing that flat out says to my delusional mind that they're in love, I say bring the patronization on! I'm all for it!
But, if I am delusional, it's obvious that I'm never going to see what's right in front of my face, so just give me up as a lost cause and I'll live in blissful ignorance.
Ah yes, blissful ignorance. Where would untenable arguments and points of view be without you? Conceding defeat, no doubt.
As a shipper who came in at the end of the sixth season, it would have been MUCH more bearable if the ship had simply been dropped right then in S7, rather than stringing the shippers fans along with false hope; further angering the anti-shipper fans into a frenzy; confusing the neutral fans; and portraying Sam (and by association, God knows why, Amanda Tapping) in a bad light.
As much as I love the ship, it would have been WAY better if they had let it go. It pains me to say this, too. Really, it does. However, if Skiffy really plans to squeeze every last ounce out of this series, the dark and ambiguous J/S ship will always hang over its fandom like a cloud.
Death would have been more merciful.
~DoS
Joe, is peter Deluise coming back for season ten and in RDA comming back to tie up some loose ends?
I'm with ya DoS as far as ambiguity goes I think it's a losing game plan long term. Taking a solid stance ticks one group off for sure, but ambiguity ticks pretty much everyone off.
I say now that they should show decidedly non-ambiguous stuff whenever the opportunity arises. Not dedicate an episode to it or anything...but moments here and there that are about as ambiguous as a two by four. :D
You know, since Jack's no longer there and the team's not affected one way or the other by it, what's the point of being ambiguous? Ship was made canon which irked those who hate it...so what's the point of being vague about it now? That'll just irk the shippers who are thirsty for more.
It's not that showing a moment of something shippy is going to make Kickbutt!Carter less of a warrior or genius. It'll just be a nice payoff for going through all that angst for so long.
MB
Okay Joe(or any shipper),
I see that there has been an attempt made to give the impression tht Jack and Sam love each other in some capacity. But how could you possibly be satisfied with the way things are now? Are you satisfied shippers?
Jack and Sam if they are in love cannot possibly love each other enough to make a go of it. Shippers, I ask you, why did Carter get together with Pete? It looked to me that she honestly tried to make a go of it with him. Why would she introduce him to her father and plan a wedding if she never had any intention to marry him? So, she, up into season eight had no intention of getting together with Jack. She kept approaching him to tell him her feelings. It looked to me that outside of Divide and Conquer she never told him how she felt. Why not? After Jack gets unfrozen, why not tell him then? Why continue with Pete? It doesn't seem as clear-cut to the characters as it is to the shippers. I see indecision, not certainty. Carter rarely hesitated in showing an interest in another man.
Now I am certain up through the end of season eight Jack and Sam have never been togehter. Is that your belief as well or are they breaking regulations? Why not take the steps necessary to be together? Whether they love each other or not doesn't mean they would or should get together. And as of yet no shipper has made an argument convincing enough to make me believe Jack and Sam are violating regulations. And I have yet to hear a convincing argument made that says Jack and Sam for sure without a doubt will get together or want to be together as a couple. It seems to me that throughout the series Jack and Sam have regularly decided not to get together. So to me it seems shippers want Jack and Sam to change that decision that they keep making, unless you think they are behaving dishonorably and sneaking around, which there is absolutely no evidence for whatsoever.
So, Joe and shippers, I'm waiting for the proof that they are either together, should violate regulations to be together or are a sure thing to be together in the future. Which I believe such proof does not exist.
To the post above this one:
What???
Anonymous said:
---I think the writers are trying to combine the shows too much---
I agree. Not everyone who watches SG-1 also tune in to Atlantis. Just like not everyone who watches CSI, watches CSI: Miami or CSI: New York. It's usually a gimmick to get people to watch a show who normally don't. CSI: Miami is a two-parter this week, with part two showing up on the lower rated CSI: New York.
Shadowmaat said:
---I think it says a LOT about fan confidence in TPTB that the idea of crossovers has a lot of people (or apparently a lot of people) worried---
It certainly has a lot of anonymous people worried, that's for sure. I don't watch Atlantis, and I no longer like Carter, but I don't think putting her on Atlantis is a very good idea either, and for pretty much the same reasons already listed.
Another Anonymous said:
---And, for the record, the Congressional Medal of Honor is not easy to obtain. The fact it was "awarded" to Mitchell for getting shot down makes no sense at all. A Purple Heart, sure, but the CMH? As if that's not bad enough, the scene in the episode where he does get the medal implies that everyone involved in the battle would get one---
Not only that, but it wouldn't be awarded by a Lt Col, it would be awarded by someone much, MUCH higher up. I'd also kind of like to know why Mitchell is considered such a hero. So he led the air strike, or whatever it was. What about all the other pilots? What were they, chopped liver?
While I did enjoy the episodes with Vala this season, I don't want to see 20 episodes of Claudia Black running around in skimpy clothes shooting off one-liners to Michael Shanks so he can look frustrated and pissed off and shoot one-liners back to her. I don't want a pregnant Vala, either, I don't care if it turns out to be King Arthur himself. I'd like to see some character development, a little depth, some emotion, some caring, like we had in the early seasons.
Yeah, Joe, I'm still pissed that nobody could manage to tell Daniel they were glad he was back from Glowyville, and I STILL think Daniel deserves to be given a medal. ON SCREEN ::GRIN::
I'm enjoying Season 9 so far.
>>To the post above this one:
What???
10:18 PM <<
What don't you understand? I asked questions about the ship. Are Sam and Jack together now? Are they going to get together? They(Jack and Sam) obviously decided not to pursue it. Why do shippers say that they are pursuing it?
"well, i guess if you're living with a bunch of androids, that would work. stargate is about human beings (and some aliens) that actually want (and require) companionship. nothing abnormal about that."
Companionship is perfectly normal. I honestly wish they would show more about the friendships that have developed on SG1 and Atlantis. It's the line between friendship and relationship that I think you have blurred. I see no reason why there HAS to be a relationship or relationships on SG1 or Atlantis. Just because these people are put under stressful situations or they spend a lot of time together is not a good enough reason to automatically assume that relationships must form. Men and women work together in real life under (somewhat) similar situations all the time and they don't take a roll in the hay.
After seeing the lackluster ending to Sam and Jack, I'm pretty sure I don't want to see a repeat on Atlantis.
someone said:
So, Joe and shippers, I'm waiting for the proof that they are either together, should violate regulations to be together, or are a sure thing to be together in the future.//
this is just 'one' shipper answering you here (we're not a hive mind); there's no proof that they're in a relationship now, but i see that they 'want' to be in one. for *me*, sam got together with pete because of jack. sam dumped pete because of jack. jack got dumped by kerry because of sam. their fishing together meant a LOT in what fishing really stood for between them.
so are they 'in' a relay now? i really don't know, but i feel it's just a matter of time.
but you want proof on all this? was there any doubt that sam and pete were interested in each other? no. why? because they didn't play it ambiguously. that's all you'll need to have your proof with sam and jack too, even if you don't actually want to see it. but that proof is coming; 8 years of build up/scenes tells me so.
i'm not sure this is enough for you, but i don't feel like writing out 8 years worth of scenes and eps to show you how i got to my conclusions.
sally :)
Oooh oooh! Post 400!
Okay...I must say something deep. Something meaningful...something that tugs at the ol' heartstrings...
*ponders for a moment*
I got nothing.
So Joe...I guess I'll just repeat what I've been saying...more team, more sam, yadda yadda...
And more YOU! Any word about YOUR return yet, Joe???
MB
So this has turned into open season on amanda?????
tell ya what folks, if you don't want Sam on Atlantis, why don't you let SKiffy and MGM know that you don't want Vala in SG1 full time....because the inclusion of her character is why TPTB are looking to take care of one of thier own and not do what skiffy wants....to basically fire an actress because she dared to have a child and refuses to pander to thier 'can you wear a size smaller shirt?' 'can you take it off please?' 'yeah, we know it sounds like a line from a porn movie, but say it anyway' type of writing that they have burdened Vala with.
The key to keeping Sam off your precious atlantis is to either keep vala off SG1, or convince our fine writers and the idiots at the networkd that *gasp*, yes, two women can co-exist on the same show and the SG1 team doesn't HAVE to have four members.
that's the real reason behind having Sam appear on Atlantis. Bridge studios is trying to take care of one of thier own that Skiffy and MGM are determined to kick to the curb in favor of catering to the scapers and continuing to degrade the show to the trite and silly
their fishing together meant a LOT in what fishing really stood for between them.
Are we equating fishing with love/sex? Cause if so then what was the episode saying?? Were they having an orgy at Jack's cabin cause I do remember seeing Daniel and Teal'c there--you can't say that just because Carter is at the cabin that means they're in love--the WHOLE team was there!
Jack and Sam "fishing" together would violate regulations so Daniel and Teal'c were along so we know that they were really just fishing not "fishing." See?
I don't believe that Jack and Sam are together as of now. If TPTB want a resolution at some point, I think they will wait until RDA comes back for a guest shot or resolve it years later in the movie version like they did with Riker and Troi.
It appears to me that right now, Sam is still hung up on her feelings for Jack and so is not going to date anyone else therefore, "not exactly" single. When else are you not exactly single--you are either seeing someone or not--like she once said about Pete. Although, I guess you could be not exactly single if you are separated but not yet divorced. Hmm, there's a plot bunny. ;)
Jack? Who knows? He maybe thought about leaving the airforce for her but then decided not to cause he's got two stars on his uniform now. If they were going to be together, then the characters could have made it happen easily but Jack apparently still has some say in Carter's assignments--he had to give permission for her to come to the SGC in Beachhead.
So, no, I don't think there is evidence enough on screen to say they are definately together. If the writers stay interested enough in the storyline, maybe they will be at some point in the future.
Of course, it was written vaguely enough so that shippers can see it as they wish and more power to them.
Jack and Sam "fishing" together would violate regulations so Daniel and Teal'c were along so we know that they were really just fishing not "fishing." See?
LOL Which is exactly where the ambiguity comes in. Shippers see Daniel and Teal'c being there as a cover so that it's not obvious that Carter and Jack are breaking the regs--but it's never shown that way. *shrugs* Guess the noromos and slashers aren't the only ones seeing what they want ;)
If you want to drag up the old regs comment (which, given the sloppy 'following' of the regs in the past couple of years in the way of tank tops on duty, cam getting the cmoh and this silly co-leader bit seems to prove that their much vaunted miliatry advisor has either bailed or doesn't care anymore) then the as much desired 'jack and daniel friendship moments' that some want are just as against the regs.
commanders cannot have anything to do with one of thier subordinates that sets one aside from the others.
if the regs are strictly followed, jack can't even invite teal'c over for pizza without inviting or having over the others, since it could be presumed that, by buying teal'c a pizza, he's showing preferential treatment to him.
same with jack giving daniel a ride to work on a consistent basis, or calling him, or calling sam or using his truck to help one of them move.
Strict interpretation of the regs to disavow het ship also means that it should be strictly interpreted to disavow pretty much all contact between jack and members of his team.
however, the regs are written to be deliberately vague. so that they can be used to smack the bad while allowing leeway for the good.
of course, this is all water under the bridge and in the past. it's history and nothing will be changed. RDA seems to be fed up enough with the stuff going on at bridge/mgm/scifi that he's washed his hands of the whole mess and about the only saving grace is that the die hard shippers are just as screwed over as the die hard slashers.
neither of them will get the resolution that they feel they deserve
"Cheng-mun siu-je!"? That's "Excuse me, Miss!", right?
I've got the same Pimsleur set, though I must say I'm less disciplined that you are; I managed to reach the dizzy heights of lesson 4 before I drifted away. :)
Well done for getting through it, and thanks for reminding me that it exists!
Someone said:
>>but you want proof on all this? was there any doubt that sam and pete were interested in each other? no. why? because they didn't play it ambiguously. that's all you'll need to have your proof with sam and jack too, even if you don't actually want to see it. but that proof is coming; 8 years of build up/scenes tells me so.
i'm not sure this is enough for you, but i don't feel like writing out 8 years worth of scenes and eps to show you how i got to my conclusions.<<
I don't argue that Sam and Jack love each other. I saw the same eight years you did. I'm asking if they think it's worth the effort to get together. Relationships are a lot of work and it seemed Sam made a greater effort to have a relationship with someone else(Pete) rather than confront Jack about it. I don't think Jack and Sam have been intimate - yet, if they ever will be I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure the writers are committed enough to the ship to follow through on it. If Carter is going between the Milky Way and Pegusus Galaxies, and RDA never returns, I'm not sure it's going to happen. You know the writers could kill off Jack in season ten if they wanted to. I haven't seen any guarentees/assurances that TPTB will have them get together. And I haven't seen anywhere in any interview that says AT or RDA will insist on it. Actually I thought AT(as long as she was willing) would always be on SG1(show) full-time. Now, it doesn't look like that. Sometimes people who are in love never get together and have a romantic relationship. What makes any shipper so sure TPTB will follow through on the ship? I gave up on it because I think TPTB are not in agreement over making it happen. How can anyone be sure it's going to happen on screen? They haven't even bothered to say where Jack is now on screen. Why should I have any hope they'll even bother with the ship? I don't see any proof that they are going to make it happen. And I have yet to see any shipper give any proof it's going to happen either.
I don't know about the specific regs for Jack and Sam but the airforce did seem concerned enough that they have to have AU's and dreams and timeloops in order to show a kiss. I have never heard that they have ever had a problem with Jack's friendships with Daniel or Teal'c.
But then, far as we know Jack never kissed Daniel or Teal'c. ;)
Which would cause more of a morale problem?
an as-far-as-we know-hetero-general taking his newly promoted female subordinate up to his cabin.
Or
an as-far-as-we-know-hetro General taking his as-far-as-we-know hetero male civilian friends fishing at his cabin.
People have dirty minds and they would assume that a little nudge-nudge-wink-wink was going on in the first case.
In the second case? I don't know; I guess it would depend on whether there was perceived favoritism going on or the civilians were getting undeserved advancement due to a close friendship with the general.
Marshall, Atlantis fans aren't anti Amanda, this is nothing personal about the actress I'm sure she is a very nice person but we have the right to be protective of our own characters. You wouldn't be happy with our characters coming onto SG1 and shoving Sam or Daniel to the side so why should we stand by and have our characters pushed aside so Sam can come over here just because the writers don't know what to do with her. If Sam is given major storylines on Atlantis then some of the Atlantis characters will have to be moved aside to make room for her and Atlantis fans have every right to be annoyed at that. Atlantis is a seperate show and we were told there were be very few if any crossovers now we are being told that a major SG1 character is coming over practically hijacking our show. We have every right to be protective of our characters and show.
Sam belongs on SG1 and you SG1 fans should be supporting that, keep her where she belongs.
Not all Atlantis fans are SG1 fans we love Atlantis and the characters on that show are wonderful, fun and new. SG1 has been around for a long time so it's only fair that the characters on Atlantis get a chance to develop now.
It's true that Jack can't show any favoritism to men or women, but of course people are far more likely to believe Jack is fooling around with a woman rather than a man he invites to his cabin. His inviting Teal'c over is one of the view ways Teal'c was ever going to get out of the mountain, si i think few would resent Jack for escorting Teal'c to see our world. The military people I've talked to say they do interact with subordinates in a friendly manner and no one makes much of an issue of it. I think military is able to distinguish between friendships and romantic relationships.
But I ask any military people out there: can you only be good friends or have someone over that isn't in your chain of command or a subordinate? That seems ridiculous. What if your best friend gets promoted? Is your friendship over?
Now I would think people would understand the diference between a close relationship with a woman and a man for Jack.
Jack invited Daniel over to his house when they first came back from Abydos. I doubt anyone would take issue with such a kindness show to Daniel. I would think the US military can discern such differences between friendship and romantic relationship and decide the impact that has on morale.
If Jack is seeing Carter and is giving her promotions, I can see where there is something this at least inappropriate about that. Of course I think Jack has the integrity to do no such thing. So I believe as of now Carter and Jack are not in a romantic relationship.
Who out there thinks Jack would be sleeping with/having a thing with Carter and writing her performance reviews at the same time? I think better of Jack than the shippers apparently do. And if you think he's violating regulations, why would you then think he's good enough for Carter? I believe they have feelings, I just don't believe they would their violating regulations to do it. I also think Jack wouldn't violate the regs to be with Daniel either. But then, I think highly of Jack.
There was an incredible amount of support for Sam/AT in regard to Sam's role on SG-1. Most fans are supporting Sam on SG-1. (Also take a look at the poll). I think there may be a bit of an overreaction here, only because we have no idea what the split between SG-1 and Atlantis will be for Sam. And AT didn't know either. I think it could work out really well to have Sam over in Atlantis, but just for an occasional time, or a one-time story arc lasting two or three episodes, where it really makes sense for the story.
I think a big fear of mine is that the writers/producers are writing for the new actors, trying to fit them in somehow into the Stargate Universe, rather than writing stories that make sense and are compelling. For example, they are trying to force us to accept Mitchell as leader when there isn't much reason to do so. They may be trying to get Vala on the SG-1 team (we really don't know), but this doesn't make much sense militarily for the show. IMO, the integrity of the storylines are being threatened. And for so long, this integrity of the writing (and particularly in writing team stories) is what has made SG-1 so successful. Will the show lose its integrity?
Edwina,
There is a BIG difference between friendship and a romantic relationship.
Here's something that really hasn't
been answered by Joe or any other PTB. Has Lexa been asked back for a season 10?
The reson why I'm asking is because with all the Vala/Daniel shippers out there, I'm wondering if this will be part of her's/MS's contract- No Sex Scene's with anyone else besides us.
If she hasn't, then I believe the ship is on and I feel sorry for you Joe, since you are the buffer here.
LaCroix
Ugh, I've just read the rumor that Vala will be back as a regular next year. Joe, please tell me this isn't true! What are you guys doing to my SG-1? And what's this nonsense about Carter on Atlantis? I thought there weren't going to be any huge crossing of the two shows. Things sound like they are going ominously bad up there in Vancouver Joe.
sally said: their fishing together meant a LOT in what fishing really stood for between them.//
Curious said:
Are we equating fishing with love/sex? Cause if so then what was the episode saying?? Were they having an orgy at Jack's cabin cause I do remember seeing Daniel and Teal'c there--you can't say that just because Carter is at the cabin that means they're in love--the WHOLE team was there!//
it isn't about sex. it's about how many times jack asked sam, and how many times she turned him down because of a- it's against the regs, and b- if your'e attracted to someone (especially someone you're not supposed to be), it's not a good idea to go to a remote place with them and be alone. basically, i always saw sam turning jack down because she didn't want to bait temptation.
so for sam and jack to *finally* be fishing together showed *to me* that sam (and jack) had decided to stop fighting what they felt for one another. finally. the fishing trip represented YEARS of repression that had finally melted away. just her saying yes to going was a huge advance in their relationship. it's not just breaking down the walls, it's embracing what might be.
thus ends what was 'supposed' to be a short reply. ;)
sally :)
someone said:
I don't argue that Sam and Jack love each other. I saw the same eight years you did. I'm asking if they think it's worth the effort to get together. Relationships are a lot of work and it seemed Sam made a greater effort to have a relationship with someone else(Pete) rather than confront Jack about it.//
i see what you're saying, but we're not dealing with 'sam' dealing with this issue, we're dealing with the writers who only want to stretch out the outcome for as long as they can. for some reason that i still haven't figured out, writers seem to think that once a couple gets together, fans lose interest. so we get to see sam and jack in their mating dance instead of the actual mating. :p
//What makes any shipper so sure TPTB will follow through on the ship? I gave up on it because I think TPTB are not in agreement over making it happen. How can anyone be sure it's going to happen on screen? They haven't even bothered to say where Jack is now on screen. Why should I have any hope they'll even bother with the ship? I don't see any proof that they are going to make it happen. And I have yet to see any shipper give any proof it's going to happen either. //
i don't have any guarantees or proof that it'll happen because i don't really trust these ptb to follow through on it. and that's a shame.
just because the years of build up says we'll get it, and just because the ptb know there's fans out that that want it doesn't mean they'll give it to us. and that's a shame.
another someone said:
Sam belongs on SG1 and you SG1 fans should be supporting that, keep her where she belongs.//
we're trying. :(
sam moving to atlantis is making her come off as the mitchell/vala of atlantis. newbie comes on and pushes established character aside.
seems sam's losing either way. :( :(
sally :)
I'm curious about the idea of what the fishing meant. Are they together or not? So is this a long distance relationship? How come Carter is going to choose to spend even more time away from Jack and even farther away?
I agree that Carter turned Jack down for fishing because at the very least it would look inappropriate enough to put their careers in jeopardy.
I know that even after the fact the military can go after officers that have been involved when it was against regulations.
Would Jack and Sam risk the integrity of the Stargate Program to have an affair?
Do all shippers believe that Jack and Sam had sex on that fishing trip?
If Sam and Jack are in love what should they do? What can they do? And what's taking them so long to do it? Or are they already together? And if they are together , which is against the rules they took an oath to uphold, should they be court martialed for it? Or should the rules only apply to some people? How well can a military work if some are held accountable and some are not? If you're in love does that excuse breaking the rules in any and all circumstances? How can it be fine for Jack and Sam to break the rules but everyone else has to follow them.? Would you, as a married person, be fine if your spouse had an affair as long as they were in love with the person they cheated with? Doesn't any shipper respect the fact that although they are in love, Sam and Jack choose to live in respect of the regulations? Doesn't that say something great about them that they can deny themselves because they respect their oath and the Air Force?
I prefer to think of Sam and Jack as principled officers rather than believe they lack the character to honor their commitments.
Someone said,
Sam moving to Atlantis is making her come off as the Mitchell/Vala of SG1.
She sure will and the Atlantis fans won't be happy with her shoving off established characters to make way for her. So Sam will be the biggest looser in all of this unfortunately.
My view? Jack and Sam are just close friends - people who have respect and affection for each other, and who have grown close through the stress under fire intensity they have experienced over the years as a team.
If there were something more than this communicated - then the series will have taken an irrevocable step that will change it forever ... much better to remain ambiguous so that we can all enjoy the speculation and debate, and choose for ourselves what we want to believe.
And of course, Jack is a gentlemen, and gentlemen never tell.
Edwina,
There is a BIG difference between friendship and a romantic relationship.
not accordinig to the regs. Read them, they apply to same gender as equally as they do opposing genders. It's only personal perception and predjudice that allows for one kind to be more 'allowed' than the other.
Folks can't have things both ways. If they want a strict interpretation of the regs in regards to Jack/Sam, then they need a strict interpretation of them in regards to Jack/Daniel...and according to the regs, Jack taking SAm up to the cabin alone is just as bad as him taking DAniel up.
People that interpret one as worse than the other are not looking at things objectively but with their personal preferences and can be operating under the presumption that male/females must always be looking for sex and are incapable of being friends while also interpreting that m/m are always friends and never looking for sex.
and as to jack being het, hey, i agree with you....but when i've said that to a slasher for a reason why i don't see slash, her response?????
People change preferences all the time. how do you know he hasnt' decided to bat for the other team???
Trust me, I would love nothing more than to have Amanda and Sam full time on SG1. That's where she belongs.
but that's where someone seems determined that she can't be. Personally, i don't think it's bridge that's wanting to be rid of her. I think they're using atlantis as a way to keep one of thier own in the cast and treat her fairly. I think it's scifi and mgm who want rid of her in preference to thier new shiny toy of vala.
and why do they like vala???? Well, they have no shortage of folks promoting her and pimping her and pushing her because, well more vala = more daniel so more vala is good for folks that like that dynamic. And they've been lacing thier 'we want vala' with 'sam sucks'
I'm just saying those that watch atlantis that don't want sam threatening their character, well the includion of vala and the perception that if vala is on the show then sam needs to be off the show is what's putting sam on atlantis.
so if you want to keep sam off atlantis, then either vala needs to go or the writers need to accept that two female characters can co-exist on the show
"Folks can't have things both ways. If they want a strict interpretation of the regs in regards to Jack/Sam, then they need a strict interpretation of them in regards to Jack/Daniel...and according to the regs, Jack taking SAm up to the cabin alone is just as bad as him taking DAniel up."
I don't have a strict interepretation of the regs because I don't know exactly what they are. In my above post, I was talking about what the airforce advisors would allow on the show. There doesn't seem to be a problem with friendships whatever real life regulations would be.
But they do seem to have an issue with any appearance of anything improper going on with Jack and Sam. I don't know if this has any bearing at all, but the airforce has had some very nasty sexual scandals in recent years--harrassment, abuse and superior officers sleeping with subordinates. Maybe they are drawing a firm line to try and get away from anything that could be interpretated negatively.
So we have Jack having to resign in WoO and the AU's and Grace's sort of kiss and Sam just stopping short of admitting anything out loud. A great deal of the ship is implied with looks, lighting and music and blocking. Very little is expliciting spelled out in dialogue.
Which in my opinion is its weakness.
Hi Marshall,
There are also plenty of fans who do NOT want more of the Vala and Danaiel dynamic--or at least don't want it to be front and center, but rather have the TEAM be front and center. There are also plenty of fans who have expressed their concern over having Vala as a regular versus a recurring character. I am one of those who thinks that too much Vala will ruin the dynamic, but a recurring Vala would be good. This opinion is continually being expressed.
And it is ridiculous to think that Sam and Vala could not share the stage of SG-1. IMO, the only fans who think that they shouldn't are the small subset of Daniel fans who want nothing but Daniel front and center (and you're right--the way Vala has been written so far means that more Vala equals more Daniel).
I hope the writers are smarter than this and remember what makes SG-1 so successful---good team dynamics and good storytelling where the characters are acting in character!
After reading Joe's comments again, it seems that they are considering having Sam only occasionally cross over-- if this is so and the story warrants it, I think this would be great. I would love to see Sam interact with Weir again, and of course McKay (and not just in an hallucination). Sam and Sheppard would be interesting too. Some potential for good occasional crossovers.
Cathy
The only way Carter could remain on SG1 and be part time on Atlantis is if they get a ZPM to go back and forth with greater ease. And maybe they will. The trip takes too long to think Carter could stay on SG1(team). Either TPTB are trying to make more room for Vala on SG1 or trying to get more people to watch Atlantis before they cancel SG1(show). Maybe both. I think SGA is a consolation prize for AT because they want to have more Vala.
I believe it is possible to have enough room for Vala and Sam on SG1(show) and enough room for Carter to sometimes visit SGA. But not with these particular writers. They have a difficult time advancing each character's story at the same time. They can't do it without wallpapering someone, or everyone, but one character. Maybe they had to write around RDA's schedule so much that they can't write for the team anymore. But they had no such issues on ATlantis and they rarely can include secondary(or even primary charcters) in their stories when they should logically be there. Why choose Weir rather than Beckett to discuss medical issues with Sheppard? The writers make bad choices often.
And to all those who want to see Jonas make a return(which I don't) can see now that money was not the issue as to why they will not bring back Jonas because they have the money for Vala don't they. So they say they're leaving the door open for Jack to return? I don't believe that either.
And you think this blog is done out of the goodness of someone's heart? I don't think so. It is to dispense information or misinformation at will to either rile up certain fans or to appease them. It is a tool for manipulation. But I do enjoy reading what other fans think though.
To whomever said it... yes, zipping Sam back and forth to Atlantis will be energy-draining. There are two ways to do it: she'd have to come via the Daedalus, which takes week. She COULD go back via the gate, but to suck that much energy to send one person back for a non-emergency reading makes no sense.
Wait, wait, I've got an incoming message. Yes, they found a ZedPM on eBay! (insert heavy sarcasm). I hope they don't just find another ZPM that easily, and worse yet, just as a side mention ("Oh hey, Major Lorne's team found one. literally tripped over, wasn't that convenient...") Pfft.
Of course this blog is a tool for the producers. If anyone believes otherwise they're fooling themselves. That said, it does work both ways, and I suspect that Joe and the gang are getting a lot more negativity over the shiny new SG-1 than they ever imagined they would. Response to said negativity has been prideful and condescending, so I wouldn't delude myself into thinking that they'll actually change anything, but even good ole' Joe has to realize that nearly all of the decisions made for season nine (Mitchell, Vala, command of SG-1, lack of any character development, lack of any team feeling, the Carter/O'neill ship, O'neill's abduction by aliens?, the mistreatment of Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel in favor of the new characters) are almost universally reviled by fans. No one here expects to be able to influence the direction of the show. But it also doesn't hurt to let the producers know that they're ruining eight years of a great thing in one fell swoop.
Jackie
And you think this blog is done out of the goodness of someone's heart? I don't think so. It is to dispense information or misinformation at will to either rile up certain fans or to appease them. It is a tool for manipulation. But I do enjoy reading what other fans think though.
of course it is. it's a propoganda tool. It's a promotion tool. it's a way to keep the boards buzzing during hiatus because, for many, the shows aren't good enough to tune into for the re-run so the boards die down a bit. but if you keep the fans stirred up with spun rumors and things sure to inflame, you keep people talking - and in the opinion of some - keep thier interest piqued.
thinking that tptb will do anything from anything said here is rather foolish. It's kind of like how, a few months ago, tptb said 'hey, watch it before you complain about it'....well, here's a newsflash for you guys, by the time we can watch it, the whole season is pretty much history.
by the time the uk can see the first episodes broadcast the season is totally wrapped, by the time the us sees it, it's july and the first 10 episodes are in the can with a good portion of the rest written. by the time we're permitted to make an informed opinion to express, everything is history.
course, maybe they like it that way, then can tell the complainers to shut up and then delude themselves that 'well, we didn't know everyone would hate that idea until it was too late'
do i think that we're manipulated by tptb? heck yeah.
joe's spoilers are carefully worded to not only not give away major spoilers but also to intrigue and interest us. They're also, upon occasion, deliberately, at least in my interpretation, worded to tick off one side of the fandom or the other.
as long as we keep sniping at each other, we're talking about the show, which is what they want.
I for one think that vala's character is a horrible choice. She could have been so much more but she's little more than an Anise re-run...with less clothes. (and hey vala got in daniel's bed, which is more than anise got around to)
However, someone believes that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread, so we're now to be subjected to '7 of 9 syndrome'....where the existing characters are ignored and set aside in favor of the scantily clad female (at least in this case we don't also have the personal relationship between jeri ryan and one of the producers to deal with. Claudia is very much the innocent victim in this whole mess)
The only way vala can be sustainable is if she's toned down, A LOT. however, to many, her OTT is what makes her interesting. If she's toned down will she the be criticized for being nothing more than a 'carter clone'? If she's not toned down, she'll be heavily criticized as well for simply being too much. She will become fingernails on a blackboard, annoying and disliked and, for many, a reason to turn off the set.
There is just no real way for the character's run to end well. Not the way she's been introduced. Now if they'd had a bit less fun and made her a bit more normal from the beginning, maybe. But vala will be doomed to failure.
She's kinda like that great dane puppy who was sooooo cute when you brought it home....but soon wears out it's wecome and becomes a real issue when all 300 pounds of it wrecks your house.
and why do they like vala???? Well, they have no shortage of folks promoting her and pimping her and pushing her because, well more vala = more daniel so more vala is good for folks that like that dynamic.
Want to know why do I love Vala and Vala/Daniel together? Because both Claudia and Michael are BRILLIANT actors, watching these two you are watching really BRILLIANT performance, art with the BIG A. I can't say I see it watching Amanda's performance on SG-1. Claudia is TEN THOUSAND times more talented that AT and with her talent she made possible to Michael Shanks to show how brilliant actor he is too. The producers, directors and writers are not blind, working with them all every day they can tell where the REAL talent is. And it entered SG-1 stage with Claudia Black. I want this MAGIC continue in season 10.
I think the most alarming part about the whole Vala mess is that TPTB really and truly seem to think the character is great. They DON'T see anything wrong with the way she acts and with what she does to SG1. The show is a shadow of its former self. It's all tits and ass now, both from the guys as well as the girls. I for one am glad that RDA is no longer around because his legacy on the show doesn't deserve to be debased with this raunchy, base version of the show. I'm just sad for AT, CJ, and MS. Well, maybe less so for MS, but he brings that on himself.
If all Joe wanted was positive comments- or at least a majority of positive comments- I think by now he'd have given it up as a wash. ;)
He does intentionally rile up the fans and he does deliberately set us against each other... and we fall for it every time. *shrug* It [i]does[/i] keep us hooked and coming back for more, so you can't really condemn him for using something that works so effectively.
I'm curious if the "epic" 200th ep will be used to rip apart and ridicule the fans who've been complaining... all in the name of fun and frivolity, of course. ;) Not meant to be taken seriously, oh no, just a sly tip of the hat to acknowledge that they're listening.
I don't expect the show to change based solely on what I or others say. That would be stupid. But I'm sure TPTB will find a way to let us know that [i]they[/i] know. Y'know? ;)
Are you kidding me with the AT vs. CB crap again? Kalliope, get the hell out of here for christ's sake, will ya? No one cares that you're CB's personal whore/stalker/attacker. The lady doesn't even know you exist but you're willing to trample on another (and better) actress to pimp her to the world?
I must say joe i'm so glad you brought these farscape wackos over, they're really great people. It's no wonder everyone is unhappy with the way AT is being treated by you and the other PTB. The longer you let this go on, the less respect you seem to have. Stand up for your actors, the people who gave you a job for a change. They're supposedly your friends i thought.
I think the most alarming part about the whole Vala mess is that TPTB really and truly seem to think the character is great. They DON'T see anything wrong with the way she acts and with what she does to SG1. The show is a shadow of its former self. It's all tits and ass now, both from the guys as well as the girls. I for one am glad that RDA is no longer around because his legacy on the show doesn't deserve to be debased with this raunchy, base version of the show. I'm just sad for AT, CJ, and MS. Well, maybe less so for MS, but he brings that on himself.
The show is FULL OF LIFE now. And it's great.
If the show continues like it's been for the first 10 episodes of season ten, it'll fall right into line with the rest of the drek scifi shows.....vampire bats, killer snakes, cheesy bruce campbell movies and other such brainless forms of 'entertainment'.
Making Vala full time is just another step along the way to T&A B-Movies shown in a weekly format.
Oh for the good old days when it required more than hormones and eye candy to make a tv show
Marshall said "and why do they like vala???? Well, they have no shortage of folks promoting her and pimping her and pushing her because, well more vala = more daniel so more vala is good for folks that like that dynamic. And they've been lacing thier 'we want vala' with 'sam sucks'"
...
"Anon" said "Want to know why do I love Vala and Vala/Daniel together? Because both Claudia and Michael are BRILLIANT actors, watching these two you are watching really BRILLIANT performance, art with the BIG A. I can't say I see it watching Amanda's performance on SG-1. Claudia is TEN THOUSAND times more talented that AT and with her talent she made possible to Michael Shanks to show how brilliant actor he is too."
Marshall, you couldn't have been given a better example of your bolded statement. Thanks Kalliope, oops I mean anonymous, for verifying that the fanbase that tears down Carter just so they can build up Vala is still alive and kicking.
If the show continues like it's been for the first 10 episodes of season ten, it'll fall right into line with the rest of the drek scifi shows.....vampire bats, killer snakes, cheesy bruce campbell movies and other such brainless forms of 'entertainment'.
Making Vala full time is just another step along the way to T&A B-Movies shown in a weekly format.
Oh for the good old days when it required more than hormones and eye candy to make a tv show
I'm sure majority of British audience which is just watching the first half of season 9 won't agree with this statement. Go and read their reviews of the new eps in the episodes section. They're actually much more positive about them than American audience. Interesting why... ;)
The show is FULL OF LIFE now. And it's great.
Ah yes, it's so full of life that it's going to die a horrendous and painful death after next season because none of the long-term fans will recognize it as the show they once loved anymore. Sorry, but enjoy it while you can, Anonymous, I just don't think they're going to find enough of an audience to keep the full-time intergalactic Vala/Daniel/Cam space circus alive for more than one season.
I know the mere thought of Vala appearing full-time in season 10 makes me dread what is to come, particularly when it appears she may do so at the expense of Carter. Vala is entertaining in small doses, but every show? No, no, no, no, no....
Strix varia
Hi Joe. I've been watching in the UK while trying to avoid spoilery bits at all costs. I got suckered into reading the Gateworld article with Ben Browder and now am pretty confused. I'm floored that there are 400+ comments here, but here goes anyway. Are you telling me that Mitchell is in command of SG-1? That's not really making any sense to me. He's got no offworld experience and seems to be very immature. That's ok, hopefully he'll learn. But, having seen The Powers That Be tonight, I can't help but feel that Daniel Jackson is in command of SG-1, at least until Amanda Tapping returns. Daniel Jackson is the one telling Mitchell what to do, not the other way around. How can Mitchell be leader if he doesn't ever know what to do? He's got NO experience at all, right?
Seriously, two things should happen to this blog before JM posts again:
1) You have to be a GW forum member to post here
and/or
2) Anonymity is no longer an option.
I'm just tired of people - Sam Fans, Vala Fans, Ship Fans, Anti-Shippers, Anti-everything, etc. - being allowed to post so vehemently and insultingly, without having the testicular fortitude to show their names.
I'm tired of Sony's Satan Children coming over here to post anonymously about how GREAT the show is now, only to go BACK to Sony to complain about how utterly biased and Sam-centric GW is. That's idiotic in the most pathetic of ways.
Don't get me wrong: I'm obviously not against name-calling and mud-slinging. Especially if it involves The Daniel/Vala Cult of Doom.
I just think we should all be (wo)man enough to let everyone know who we are AND what we stand for, without cowering behind the same lame title.
No matter how witty or intelligent you are, this anonymous crap is getting old.
/rant
~ the dancer of spaz
For the last time, yes, Mitchell is supposed to be the new leader of SG-1. No, he has absolutely no experience in offworld travel. No, he's not even close to being the best person for the job. No, he's not going to be acting like a leader anytime soon, sorry UK viewers. Yes, everyone else, Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel will look like they're commanding Mitchell in any given episode. No, there will be no team scenes with Mitchell. There will be no explanation of the command structure of the team. It's a huge boondoggle. The Mitchell character is one huge, gaping black hole of logic that SG-1 has been pulled into and seems unable to extricate itself from.
Look, I'm not trying to snap at anyone, but I'm sick of Ben's character having to take so much heat. I started watching Stargate because of Ben. I love Ben, and enjoy seeing him act, but this role has been no good at all for him. The character continues to be despised by many, many fans, and it doesn't seem like the writers are concerned with changing that. Mitchell has been poorly written since the beginning, and it's only served to tarnish Ben's impeccable reputation from Farscape. I'm as happy as anyone that he's got work, but Mitchell is not working out. Playing the character is making Ben look like a weak actor. Right now, I wish he never would have joined the cast, and I wish that he wasn't so gungho for season ten. The Mitchell character certainly isn't inspiring me to watch.
1) You have to be a GW forum member to post here
and/or
2) Anonymity is no longer an option.
3) Only comments directed to Joe allowed.
Which I realize is impractical, since it can't be regulated, and that I have also -including right now- posted in response to other posters. But, it would cut down on the pointless debates. "This character is why Stargate sucks now!" "Idiot! This character is why Stargate is revitalized!" "This character is the most important to the show!" "No! That character is worthless. This is the character the show can't do without, and you're an idiot, an IDIOT, I TELL YOU if you can't see that!" And, so on.
What I'm sick of is the ever decreasing age of Stargate viewers. The show was once about intelligent, thought provoking stories and realistic, relatable characters. Now all that gets promoted are spaceships, explosions, and half-naked actors. Stories have about the depth of a puddle anymore and are rife with cliches and "homages" to other series. This lobotomized version of the show is killing me.
Oh, I wouldn't blame it on the actual age of the audience. It's all about demographics in the eyes of the Suits.
As for the fans... mental age and physical age don't always match. I've seen people over the age of 30 act with all the maturity of your average 12 year old, and I've seen kids who are 15 who could pass as 25. At least online. ;)
Now, if you wanted to talk about the severe drop in the average IQ, then I might be more willing to agree. :)
(replying to more than one poster)
php404 said...
If there were something more than this communicated - then the series will have taken an irrevocable step that will change it forever ... much better to remain ambiguous so that we can all enjoy the speculation and debate, and choose for ourselves what we want to believe.//
ah, boring! :o
i'm not a big fan of daniel jackson, but i'm sure as heck not asking for a cardboard cutout of him to be used instead to save me the tedium. i'm not a fan of jaffa stories, but i'm not expecting a watered down version so my sensitive eyes and ears won't bleed.
writing ambiguous to save certain ppl the grief that don't like certain things is anti-writing. they didn't write sam/pete (or other pairings) ambiguous, so why should sam/jack be made that way?
this is an old argument that is totally based on selfishness (to *me*).
someone said:
So we have Jack having to resign in WoO and the AU's and Grace's sort of kiss and Sam just stopping short of admitting anything out loud. A great deal of the ship is implied with looks, lighting and music and blocking. Very little is expliciting spelled out in dialogue.
Which in my opinion is its weakness. //
YES! when you stretch something out to proportions that warp the characters, something is lost in translation.
and when you consider all the other couples that didn't play it ambiguously (sam/pete/ jack/laira, daniel/woman that turns into goauld, teal'c/woman that is breathing); it seems massively unfair.
as a sam and jack shipper, all i want is to SEE them together as a couple. take the first half of chimera between sam and pete and *that's* what i want to see with sam and jack. (of course ending with them getting married :p)
cathy said:
After reading Joe's comments again, it seems that they are considering having Sam only occasionally cross over-- if this is so and the story warrants it, I think this would be great. I would love to see Sam interact with Weir again, and of course McKay (and not just in an hallucination). Sam and Sheppard would be interesting too. Some potential for good occasional crossovers.//
i'm not a fan of atlantis (only because i haven't watched it), but i'd love to give it a try IF sam was on. BUT... if this two-show deal were being done for any other reason than sam being pushed out of the way for the vala/mitchell brigade, i'd be embracing this change.
you know, it really sucks to be a sam fan and s/j shipper right now. :(
sally :)
Hhhhmmm - of all of the wonderful actors and actresses over at Stargate SG1 (some of who are apparently 10,000 times better than AT), who gets on the MSNBC "IT List" this week and is challenging Johnny Depp, Kate Hudson, et. al. for No. 1? Hhhmmm looky, looky - it's Amanda Tapping - hhhmmmmm - 'nuff said.
Anon wrote:
Want to know why do I love Vala and Vala/Daniel together? Because both Claudia and Michael are BRILLIANT actors, watching these two you are watching really BRILLIANT performance, art with the BIG A. I can't say I see it watching Amanda's performance on SG-1. Claudia is TEN THOUSAND times more talented that AT and with her talent she made possible to Michael Shanks to show how brilliant actor he is too...i
I think CB and MS are very fine actors; probably the best 2 on Stargate now, and I enjoy them both. But I think the adjectives are a bit much, don't you? If either of them were that *brilliant* in terms of their acting, their talent would be so widely recognized, that they probably would be doing other jobs instead of being on a science fiction show on a cable channel.
Joe, I think S8 and 9 have been pretty boring; the Ori are a joke to me.
Suze Coleman
You know it is possible for whatever these changes are, they could be good. The real problem is there is little explanation as to what is happening and why. That I find amusing sinse the show is full of exposition and technobabble, but it doesn't tell us anything in terms of the characters. At the beginning of season nine all the characters have gone their separate ways, but we are not told why or how that came about. Sam is "not exactly" single. That's not explained either. Jack is somewhere obviously still in the Air Force. What he's doing and where is not explained. Carter, Teal'c and Daniel all decide to go back to SG1. How they came to that decision is not explained either. I like the characters so I want to see them work through their decisions or somehow show them talking about it. Jack talked with his team before taking the general job. I'd think the other characters and Jack again deserve a witness to those tough decisions. The loyal viewing audience should be allowed to bear witness to these things as well.
What I fear most is not that Vala become a member of the team or Carter goes to Atlantis or that Mitchell leads the team. What I fear is that all those things happen(ed) with no logical explanation given as to why things are the way they are or will be they way they'll be.
Whether Carter is leader of SG1 or not matters less than why it happened. If Carter lost her place then show Carter acknowledging that fact somehow. Are we really to believe Carter could care less that she isn't leading the team she lead before? At least show a scene where there is a conversation about it.
I think TPTB don't want Carter to lead and they hope we'd accept that since SG1 was disbanded that Carter would not even think about commanding or not. Whether she should have command or not, the least that should happen is Landry discussing it with Sam, and/or Mitchell.
So as more changes happen in season ten, I suspect that TPTB will not bother to explain the hows, whys or wheres of these changes.
[sarcasm] Another crack poll by Gateworld![/sarcasm]
Though I'm sure that Joe will love this one, as he likes the answers it gives him. It's only the ones that contradict his opinion/wants/needs that he rags on. Pride? What pride?
Oh, sorry. This is, like, the New Stargate. We don't explain anything. And the characters, they're like, tools to tell our stories. Which are all about the space battles! and babies! from heaven?
Yeah, that's right, we take our cues from Andromedea now. Deal.
So now we are Sony Children of Satan's??? What's next Dancer of Spaz? are you going to burn us alive? Salem? Deep Middle Ages? Seems like your so called "christianity" is from that era...
Joe,
I know that just by reading these comments, your getting a view of the on-line fandom.
But what happens next year when the off-line fandom watches S10 with no clue on whats been written on various lists, BB, forums, this weblog aand comment section. What happens when the viewier who wishes not to partake in internet community watches all the changes being done this year and sees changes done to one of their programmes?
Will there be an explaintion written in various programme guides? What about the Lowdowns?
If the ones who really count (Nielsen viewers) see all this, who are not privy to this information about next year, will the numbers go up/down? Or will they remain the same?
If you take into account whats happening here, because we don't really count, (the above mentioned counts), will there be an opinion that one/both shows are drawing to conclusion?
Only time will tell.
Thank you
LaCroix
How can Mitchell be leader if he doesn't ever know what to do? He's got NO experience at all, right?
why??? Because the morons at scifi believe that a show MUST have a leading man, and that man MUST lead any and all females on the show, even if the females have a TON more experience than he does. Because they'd rather have an unqualified man in charge than do soemthing really radical and have a female in charge. oh, cause you know, they also have to punish said female for DARING to have a life and a child.
misogyny and discrimination at it's finest.
[sarcasm] Another crack poll by Gateworld![/sarcasm]
yep, yet another slanted and biased poll since it discounts those that dont' want vala on the show.
What happened to:
Vala will be part of season 10, are you...
thrilled
happy
don't care
not happy
ready to turn off the set
oh wait, that just might be negaitve....can't be negative about poor widdle vala-wala. she's the greatest thing since sliced bread :insert eye roll:
maybe we need to start a pool, how long it takes her to take off all her clothes.
Vala is a character that has potential. but exploring that potential will take time and effort and will require some real work beyond coming up with sexually laden dialogue and skimpy costumes. Thus far, these writers haven't shown a willingness to work that hard. she's so much more fun to write when she's a shallow cliche in a bustier.
Bret said...
[sarcasm] Another crack poll by Gateworld![/sarcasm]
yep, yet another slanted and biased poll since it discounts those that dont' want vala on the show.
What happened to:
Vala will be part of season 10, are you...
thrilled
happy
don't care
not happy
ready to turn off the set
oh wait, that just might be negaitve....can't be negative about poor widdle vala-wala. she's the greatest thing since sliced bread :insert eye roll:
maybe we need to start a pool, how long it takes her to take off all her clothes.
You can start such poll and you're all gonna be losers in it, 'cause CB has "no nudity" clause in her EVERY contract. And I don't suppose it's gonna ever change.
You can start such poll and you're all gonna be losers in it, 'cause CB has "no nudity" clause in her EVERY contract. And I don't suppose it's gonna ever change.
Good for her. And that's nice to know. I personally have more respect for actresses who don't fall into the 'must bare it all to get noticed' trap.
That's something else she and amanda have in common and i respect actresses who do that.
Oh yes the IT poll. The one that the Sam fans are telling everyone how to clear the cookies on their browser to vote multiple times. The mad clickers strike again.
"I'm tired of Sony's Satan Children coming over here to post anonymously about how GREAT the show is now, only to go BACK to Sony to complain about how utterly biased and Sam-centric GW is. That's idiotic in the most pathetic of ways.
Don't get me wrong: I'm obviously not against name-calling and mud-slinging. Especially if it involves The Daniel/Vala Cult of Doom.
I just think we should all be (wo)man enough to let everyone know who we are AND what we stand for, without cowering behind the same lame title.
No matter how witty or intelligent you are, this anonymous crap is getting old.
/rant
~ the dancer of spaz "
So Dancer of Spaz is your real name then?
Anonymous Sony Cultie said:
"So now we are Sony Children of Satan's??? What's next Dancer of Spaz? are you going to burn us alive? Salem? Deep Middle Ages? Seems like your so called "christianity" is from that era..."
-----------------------------------
I have no intentions of burning you alive! In fact, I have no intentions of doing ANYTHING to you. I just think it's funny that you guys want everyone to take you so seriously when Uber-Sam Fans and not-so-Sam Fans alike think you guys are a complete joke.
Nope. I leave the burnings at the stake up to you guys. That is a part of your initiation ceremony, right? Worship at the altar of the Bespectacled One and The One With Flowing Dark Hair, denounce all who threaten to take their beloved screen time away?
Yeah, that sounds about right.
-----------------------------------
Anonymous said:
"So Dancer of Spaz is your real name then?"
-----------------------------------
Actually, it's the dancer of spaz. ;) And I have absolutely NO idea what you're getting at...
~ the dancer of spaz
Anonymous said...
Oh yes the IT poll. The one that the Sam fans are telling everyone how to clear the cookies on their browser to vote multiple times. The mad clickers strike again.
and that's the EXACT same thing that's been happening with gateworld's latest poll. and the exact same thing that happened during the whole SDJ fiasco when members of that group culled names from phone books and photocopied letters to artificially inflate the true number of their membership(and what they're probably doing with their current 'get amanda fired and claudia hired' campaign, which is being carried on by many folks who used to be members of the SDJ)
Online polls and petitions are ALWAYS easy to forge. which is precisely why intelligent folks ignore thier results. Anyone with a mouse and time on their hands can rig anything.
I have lost all respect for Amanda T. First she gets up on stage and tells those of us who attended GABIT that SHE had to approach Robert C for a contract for Season 10, and spun this great "woe is me, I've been so ppoorly treated" tale. THEN she turns around and blames her fans (remember us? The ones who paid a hell of a lot of money to see her that weekend), yes she blames these fans of hers for spreading false rumours.
Way To Go Amanda Tapping. What a class act - not!
Now that Jack has left, can we finally get rid of Sam Carter too? She serves no point anymore anymore now her boyfriend is off the show. Let the shippers have their way and let the rest of us get on with finally enjoying the show without the Sam overload.
Hey Joe, is it true that we might actually be spared Michael Shanks "acting" in season 10? I read the statement his publicist released, and it sounds like he's either going to bail (again), or he's trying to squeeze you guys for every penny you've got. God, I've lost *ALL* respect for the man. I'm sure he's devastated.
If people think that Amanda Tapping was trying to get her fans riled up (and I'm not saying she wasn't), then Shanks is doing the exact same thing with that imbecilic statement. Not being a fan of the newer, tough-love Daniel, I hope he's not just bullshitting everyone and is planning on becoming a "free agent". OOH, maybe he could star in Sumuru 2! He could use all the good press that would be generated. And I could use a nice, side-splitting laugh. The man is a star, a star I tell you!
I keep telling myself I'm going to quit posting, and I keep doing it.
Anyway, I thought the option "I'm not a fan. I watch in spite of her." was negative. It's saying you don't like her. Maybe the wording isn't as strong as people like?
Anyway, I thought the option "I'm not a fan. I watch in spite of her." was negative. It's saying you don't like her. Maybe the wording isn't as strong as people like?
that's one way to look at it. i mean, who cares if you can't stand the character but will still watch the show? as long as folks watch, they get ratings so they don't care.
I for one consider vala one of the biggest mistakes on the show. she COULD have been good, but is nothing more than fodder for late night tv (presuming any of them actually lowered themselves to watch the show)
the option of 'watch in spite of her' still means you're watching and so there's no option for the folks that say stuff it and move on
Anonymous said...
Oh yes the IT poll. The one that the Sam fans are telling everyone how to clear the cookies on their browser to vote multiple times. The mad clickers strike again.
and you think the DAniel fans aren't already writing MSN to get MS included and moaning his absence from the list? (these are the same folks that literally time the credits and complain if MS' name is up for 1/30th of a second shorter than his co-workers) or the CB fans or the BB fans???
and that they wouldn't do exactly the same thing????
Yeah, the negative isn't really that negative a response. Couple that with three positive answers and the poll can't help but be skewed. Add in all the Valadictorians voting over and over and over and over, and the whole thing is just laughable.
Wow, this whole Mitchell situation just keeps getting worse and worse. Now even GateWorld has made a note of it in their Browder interview.
This is all eerily familiar. Can anyone say "Jonas Quinn"?
No matter how witty or intelligent you are, this anonymous crap is getting old.
/rant
~ the dancer of spaz
----
And your real name would be?
Just asking because I haven't seen you have the balls to use it in these blog comments yet.
Right now all I see is 'Pot-kettle-black' from you.
anonymous said:
Wow, this whole Mitchell situation just keeps getting worse and worse. Now even GateWorld has made a note of it in their Browder interview.
This is all eerily familiar. Can anyone say "Jonas Quinn"?
Yeah, it looks like Mitchell is going to have that "hated character" stigma just like Jonas did. There's even a couple of "Save Mitchell" threads popping up on various forums, just like in season six. No, the threads aren't titled that, but that is most definitely the sentiment that's being expressd in them. It's come to this very quickly too.
Most of this isn't Browder's fault either. He's just playing a lame, weakly written character. The sad thing is he's never going to be "the lead" for most fans. It's the producer's fault for trying to rachet him into the "leader" position on a team that's already composed of three way, way, way more qualified characters. It's just a stupid thing to do. And to his credit, Browder has tried to downplay his character's importance and supposed leadership position. He's very quiet about Mitchell, even while being very grateful for having a job. And that's a nice thing to do, but it doesn't really speak well for the character he's playing.
Oh well, the producer's will probably wind up killing the character and cutting him loose, just like with Corin Nemec. It seems to be what they do with failed characters.
Just one of Sony's Satan Children said...
No matter how witty or intelligent you are, this anonymous crap is getting old.
/rant
~ the dancer of spaz
----
And your real name would be?
Just asking because I haven't seen you have the balls to use it in these blog comments yet.
Right now all I see is 'Pot-kettle-black' from you.
Hmmm. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do believe her name is "the dancer of spaz"...as in that is her Gateworld identity just like mine is ÜberSG-1Fan...as in this is how either of us can be contacted on Gateworld. So, NOT so anonymous, eh?
And since the anonymity issue is clearly so upsetting to you, might I then assume that your GW name is "Just one of Sony's Satan Children"?
Is that with spaces or underscores?
Mary Beth
Wow Joe, I think your blog will be number 1 again :P
Lot of angry internet fans out there.
I'm glad you addressed the issue about AT/SC. I'm not really sure about the crossover idea bc not all fans of SG1 are fans of Atlantis, plus Atlantis characters are entirely seperate. Having such a prominent character from SG1 become a regular could detract from the awesome story lines in SGA. It's impt that the female leads get along. There are already so few great female leads in SF that to have them bicker and fight with each other becomes so tedious and grating.
Having grown up on the stargate franchise, as have many others, we have become attached to many of the characters; fictional as it is. It's hard for people to accept changes. And its doubly hard to start a new season when the finales of previous seasons were absolutely amazing that if it just ended there, everyone would have sighed and said, wow, what a great run.
New cast and story lines just means it takes time to gather a new fan base. Old fans will just have to accept that it is no longer the same show and we have to change our perspective and watch it differently, subjectively. It's just like the new season of Alias. New characters coming on the show and old characters leaving...(hope that wasn't too big of a spoiler)
Just remember that we love(d?) stargate because it was so different from all the other SF shows out there. It was funny, smart, realistic (to a certain extent), and somewhat satired global issues/philosophical issues. It was never about chicks in leather and firefights (although having some wicked firefight scenes make the show more enjoyable)
Best of luck with negotiations.
I hope it turns out the way you hope.
-Jen
"Just one of Sony's Satan Children."
DEFINITELY underscores, Mary Beth. ;)
Question: Why can't people bash Amanda Tapping, Claudia Black and/or Michael Shanks in PMs and emails?
Why do we have to spew garbage about people we don't even know all over public space?
Just asking...
~ the dancer of spaz
that's one way to look at it. i mean, who cares if you can't stand the character but will still watch the show? as long as folks watch, they get ratings so they don't care.
As long as folks watch, they don't care what the polls say period.
the option of 'watch in spite of her' still means you're watching and so there's no option for the folks that say stuff it and move on
So, there's a negative option just not that particular negative option.
No, no. This IS just like the Mitchell poll. Joe can gnash his teeth at the obvious inaccuracy or "bias" of it all he likes, the fact remains that he's not getting the feedback he wants, so he's lashing out at the poll starter. Perhaps instead he should try and allow for the fact that so far, Mitchell and Vala have had a less than stellar reception among fans, online or not. It's not too difficult to separate the actors from characters, at least for most fans. I'm sure Ben Browder and Claudia Black are very nice people. But there characters are a poor fit for SG-1, and Joe and the producers know they've botched the stories for both.
Yeah, the negative isn't really that negative a response. Couple that with three positive answers and the poll can't help but be skewed. Add in all the Valadictorians voting over and over and over and over, and the whole thing is just laughable.
Over 8000 votes in a recent Sam/AT - SG1/SGA poll anyone? How many people were "voting and voting and voting and voting" , or actually cheating in another words? This stick has two ends. If you're saying this about ONE group of fans, you need to realize that exactly the same can be said about ANOTHER group of fans, too. BTW, with over 10 000 registered members of GW and a lot of un-registered lurkers who can vote in these polls, I don't understand why you're so unpleasently surprise that about 2100 votes were given (about 1680 for "She's perfect. Keep up the great work" option) in 24 hours to show their support to a wonderful actress that CB is and funny and very interesting character she plays on the show.
Any schmo with the address and a mouse can vote in the polls. And anyone who doesn't expect internet polls to be skewed needs to lose the naivite.
of COURSE they're skewed. This website by its very nature is skewed. these blog comments are skewed
in fact, unless you randomly pull pages from phonebooks from all over the world and call up people and ask thier opinions, every single poll will be skewed (and even that one would be since you're only talking to the folks that have phones)
obviously, in the case of this week's poll, the vala fans have something to prove.
It doesn't matter if scifi and mgm get 10,000 letters saying how much she's liked/disliked....they're only going to respond when the ratings start to sink like a stone. and by that time it'll be too late because i seriously doubt there'll be a season 11.
scifi will have thier bragging rights for 'longest running american scifi show' and that's all they'll care about.
they won't care that, for many fans, the show ended at season 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or that no one watched season 10.
all they'll care about is that the show ran that long.
There may not be a Season 11 of SG1 but I want a Season 4 and more of Atlantis and if Sam comes over and takes a major role in Atlantis watch the ratings plummet she will be known as the character/actress that brought down Atlantis and the Atlantis fans will not be a happy bunch. Leave our show alone it's a entirely new and different show with a wonderful bunch of new characters and great storylines. We don't want SG1 castoffs on our show. Not all Atlantis fans are SG1 fans there is a whole bunch of new fans watching this show and I'm sure a lot of SG1 fans don't even watch Atlantis. So leave Atlantis alone keep Sam on SG1 where she belongs.
Um, I never said that the other poll wasn't skewed. You're just reading what you want, and using my words as an excuse to bash the Sam/AT fans again. If you're going to accuse them, at least have the gall to do it outright and not as a response to criticism aimed at you. Of course, that does seem to be the requisite action from you and your ilk, doesn't it? And again you seem to have difficulty reading--it asks whether or not you like Vala, not CB. Learn to separate the two, if you can learn, that is. I'm pretty sure Claudia would be aghast at having fans like you out there who attack her colleagues and friends just becasue you get off on it.
OK, English is not my native language, but I can tell the difference between the question: Do you like Vala? and What do you think (about) Claudia Black as Vala Mal Doran so far? which is the question of this week's poll. With Claudia's name mentioned in this question, it is obvious that the question is about both, Claudia playing Vala and Vala herself. Perhaps the question should be slightly different? For example: What's your opinion about Vala Mal Doran? And answers: Love the character. The next 4 are OK for this question. And the last option - Hate the character.
I actually would be much more excited about Atlantis if Sam were on it on occasion. I think that she would actually help to boost the ratings. Atlantis's ratings have been going slowly downward since season 1, moving to its all time low recently. This isn't so good for a fairly new show. I think having some interesting cross-overs, again just on occasion, with Sam could really help the show. I definitely think Sam should primarily be on SG-1---frankly I think she should be LEADER. SG-1 would be much more believable that way, IMO. And much more credible than it is now.
Cathy
First, to explain why Mitchell is in charge of SG-1, the answer is quite simple if you want to be logical - Sam left, a new SG-1 had to be formed, Mitchell got command. You do not get to walk away from a command, and walk straight back into it, no matter how the fans want it.
Add to that, he is probably the more senior officer. Just because he doesn't have the SGC experience that Carter does, doesn't mean that he didn't get promoted first, thus giving him seniority.
Secondly, people are detirmed to hate him for the very reason he is not Jack. Fine, whatever. That's your choice, if you don't like the show, stop watching it. There is your power.
Thirdly, quit bagging out Amanda for what some people misintrepted her to say at GABIT. People took it the wrong way, she was just saying what was happened and did at no point say she was unhappy, just that she was kind of worried she wasn't approached. That's fine, but the woman is a class act. If you misintrepted what she said, that is not her fault. If you notice she was very, very careful not to blame the fans when she responded to the allegations, rather she just addressed the issue that was initally stated at GABIT. Most the people who went to GABIT aren't blaming AT for anything.
Forthly, Why was there no 'we are going to join SG-1' moment, just the cute handing over of the badges (which I liked). Simply because A, Sam is military, she doesn't get a whol lot of choice. They can reassign her whenever they want. B, Daniel is a military consultant, they can reassign him whenever they want. C, Teal'c, while Jaffa and still free to visit his breathren, while on Earth he is under the juristiction of the military and thus they can make him work wherever they want.
You make it sound like choice, when in actuality there is little to no choice for those within SG-1.
Fifthly, Claudia and Amanda can star on the same show without the crap many people think is happening. They are not hiring CB to replace AT, they are 2 very different characters. One could never replace the other, but I could see how they would work well together. It could be interesting to see.
And for my Six and final point. Don't you think it's a little early to judge season 10 when the end of season 9 has yet to air? Hmm, patience is a virtue.
I know why Mitchell is in "charge", but remember that he thought that he would be joining SG-1 and that Sam would of course be leading. He expected Sam to lead and rightfully so because she had been the leader and she has had eight years of experience off-world. He has had no experience. And they have similar rank, so I do not think he has seniority, or why did he expect to serve under Sam? So when Mitchell asked her to come back, wouldn't it be reasonable that they would have a bloody conversation about the leadership issue?! Good grief--this isn't asking much. Why would Sam expect Mitchell to lead, and why would Mitchell expect himself to lead? And why in the world would Landry want Mitchell to LEAD SG-1 when it consists of three much more experienced members and there is an incredible threat out there. Fans are asking for it to make sense.
And even now when Mitchell is supposedly leading, he really isn't. The other three are just kind of doing what they want to do, and rightfully so. I don't think it is too much to ask to have Mitchell, Sam, and Landry discuss the issue.
Chocdoc
Dee,
I really wish I could be as naive as you are being. Really, I do. Trust TPTB, right? It would make my life so much easier. Blissful ignorance and all that.
Re: Command
Yes, what you state is the "reason" Mitchell now "leads" SG-1, if that's what you want to call what he's doing. But that's not the issue. The issue is that he shouldn't be. The issue is that that scenario is a poorly concieved and executed plot contrivance of the worst kind, designed to assuage the producer's seeminly misogynistic need to have a male leader of SG-1. The issue is that as written in the show, no one with Mitchell's qualifications would ever get to command an SG team out of hand. No one. He has no experience, period. Over the last eight years we have been introduced to a plethora of military personel who have more of a right to lead SG-1 than Mitchell. They were written as being much more capable, too. If the writers really wanted Mitchell to have a valid, logical claim to SG-1, then they would have made him a full Colonel, given him some real off world combat and leadership experience, and made sure that the structure of SG-1 was clearly defined. Instead, they've done exactly the opposite, making Carter, Teal'c, and Daniel look as experienced and worthy as they really are, and making Mitchell look like a lame tag-along with no purpose, no input, and no reason for being a part of the team. He stands there and looks pretty while the rest of "his" team saves the day. That IS how the character has been written, and it is in no way unintentional on the part of the writers.
And, for the record, contrary to however rigidly defined anyone thinks the show is, the US military in absolutely no way has Carter, Teal'c, or Daniel bent over a barrel. They are so astoundingly imperative to Earth's continued exploration of the universe that in any reality, it is the US military who would beg them to stay, and it is the US military who would endeavor to keep those three heroic, irreplaceable individuals extremely happy and satisfied. Any one of them could easily leave the program and move on.
Agreed, it is the sheer implausibility of the situation that is rankling most fans. There has been no logical explanation for what has taken place regarding Mitchell. And give Big Joe's delicate attitude, I'm betting that the writers can't come up with one any more than the fans can.
The complaint is that it is just an asinine situation to be in, caused by studio/network politics and some terrible writing. Everyone involved seems to be ashamed of the mess, which is good, but it also seems like no one knows what to do about it.
It's crap. And it's hurting many, many people's perception of an otherwise ok show.
The problem is that all of the "reasons" given why Mitchell is leading are all fabricated by the writers. They are not reasons.
A reason would be that Amanda requested that she not continue in that role because she wanted to spend more time with her daughter (which we know isn't true) or...AND THIS IS THE MORE LIKELY SCENARIO...someone from some aspect of TPTB wanted a new leading man to take over the team and REALLY wanted that to be Mitchell (who I think was originally going to be a Major).
But you know...they should have made him an eager beaver Major wanting to learn from the best of the best...then told to make his own team when he learns the original team disbanded...then turned over command to Carter when she returned to the SGC. That would have been logical especially since that's how he's acting...no experience, making tons of rookie mistakes and doesn't actually lead anyone.
The scenario as written is implausible at best and highly insulting at worst. Ignore logic and reason and and the history of the show...and just accept that he's a hero worthy of leading the best of the best on the frontline team because we've been told he's really a hero worthy of a CMH...even though he doesn't act like it.
And pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Mary Beth
Yep, good leader. So far he's tagged along on Daniel's and Vala's scavenger hunt, gotten ill, threatened a prior while Sam and Vala led, got literally shoved into the backgroud by Teal'c twice, did his little twig fighting lesson (sorry, no leading there), released Anubis' son, failed at stopping the prior plague, and got captured (again!) by the Sodan.
And stay tuned for the second half of the season where he gets captured (again!) and accused of murder and reveals the existence of the Stargate program to someone without clearance. And that's just what we know about. I for one can't wait to see what other fun "leadership" experiences Mitchell runs into. Hell, it's no wonder there's no time for character development this year, SG1 is too busy saving/rescuing/coming to the aid of/fixing mistakes by their redoubtable leader, Cameron Mitchell.
UberSg-1fan said:
And pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
What man? I keep seeing a big white elephant.
The thing is, it's not too late to "fix" it, so to speak.
There's a way to make everyone happy here - from Vala fans to Sam fans to Cam fans to Team fans. There's a way to make this work.
First of all, it needs to be recognized that AT is as much of a valuable asset to this franchise as Sam is to the SGC.
Second, the command issue - NO MATTER HOW IT GOES - needs to be addressed. Just like ship, no one is putting their foot down, and it's causing major problems.
Joe Schmoe Media Consumer may not analyze any eps when he kicks back in his La-Z-Boy, but many other peeps do - even the ones who don't go online.
If these "normal" fans ever caught a glimpse or two of S8, they would be wondering where the HECK this show is going. Some of the stuff is just too illogical to ignore.
Third of all, SciFi needs to get off its high horse and stop pandering to the Farscape fans with one hand, while patronizing the Stargate fans with the other. It's ridiculous, a waste of time and it insults ALL of our intelligence.
Fourthly, hardcore SG fans who resent CB and BB need to take a step back and gain some perspective on the situation. The actors are not the enemy here. Though their characters may be slightly contrived, it's not their fault.
Lastly, as a Crazy Fandom Universe, we all need to be sticking together. What happened to compromise? There's a place on SG-1 for Sam, Cam and Vala. There's a place for Daniel, too. And heck, because he's just so dang talkative, there's a place for Teal'c as well. We need to find some common ground here.
And the network and the producers need to, too. Not that it matters much to the suits, but it would appear that everything's going to Hell in a handbasket when it comes to the people who have been watching consistently for years.
~ the dancer of spaz
Dancer of Spaz, thanks SO much for calling me a wanker and a liar in one post. Yes I paid money to see Amanda Tapping, yes I was one of those fans who adored the actor prior to her recent comments branding us fans liars. If you knew who I really was, you certainly wouldn't be calling me a wanker and a liar. You would probably fall off your chair in shock.
I din't want Carter on Atlantis. Otherwise you will do SamShep ship and I don't want that.
But I don't see she has any place on SG1 any more. She's like a fifth wheel over there.
Whatever Happened to Gateworld's Motto: Trust THe Powers That Be? All I see here are desperate attempts to sure up a pathetically outdated character (Carter) and to downplay the success of the new, fresh and imporved SG1.
Send Carter to Atlantis, Brad Wright always loved the character more than other one.
I have to laugh reading this. All the Sam fans crying out that EVERYONE is united in wanting Sam back, that EVERYONE is united in disgusted at how Amanda has been treated.
The Sam fans say how much they want Sam and Vala to have time together - the same buch who a few months ago were calling Vala Vulgar and how they want her off the show.
Then I read all these people saying Sam is great, but don't put her on my show/get rid of her off my show.
Seems to me there is only one thing universal with Sam - no one knows what to do with her - she has to be paired up with someone (Jack/Vala/Mitchell/Teal'c/Daniel/McKay) to have any use at all.
Anyone of you lot championing Sam Carter and the actress as so wonderful and that she should be the leader/star etc ever stop to think she has had a chance to show she was capable of being the lead of the show since S6 when RDA decreased his presence? Oh no, I forgot Jonas took that opporuntity away from her. Then Daniel returning took that opporunity away form her, then Vala and now Mitchell is taking that opporunity away from her.
Maybe this just proves she is such a poor character/average actor that she can't be the lead/star in her own right.
I have the perfect solution to all the shows woes Joe. Marry Jack and Sam off, the Sam can go to Washigton and make babies, the shippers will be happy and so will everyone else with Sam no longer on the show.
Nice try, anonymous--probably the same person posting over and over again their hatred of Sam.
I find it so interesting that the Sam fans are not crying for any character to be off the show, but the so-called little subset of Danny fans are very rude and the only ones crying for anyone to be off the show. It shows how immature you are. And I don't see any Sam fans trying to say SG-1 should be the Sam Carter show. I also don't see any Sam fans saying that EVERYONE loves Sam/AT. AT does have alot of support, but no character or actor has EVERYONE's support.
I also don't see Sam fans complaining about Sam's screen time in seasons 6, 7, or 8. She did quite fine, thank you.
So, whoever you are, anonymous, your arguments are lame.
And the anonymous person who thinks AT is calling her fans liars--I feel sorry for you if you think that is what her message meant. Good luck to you and working out your anger.
Chocdoc
Wow, six anti-Carter posts in a single half hour stint. And my, aren't they all so similar in language and composition! I will give you Carter haters this, you are persistent. Incredibly stupid, but persistent in your stupidity.
Actually, Anonymous Sony visitor #214, Amanda WAS in charge for most of s6. And has been the one consistent actor throughout the entire run of the show. Well, guess i have to amend that, Chris has consistently been silent wallpaper since day one.
Those of you that have nothing to do but bash Sam, well I have to wonder what you're so threatened about? Like maybe the fact that she - on a bad day - can act circles around your little darling MS and, since day one, has proven that, even though he thought that he was hired as the co-star of the show, she took that place through sheer talent and ability....while MS amused himself playing video games with Chris.
There are so many Sony Trolls over here that board must be reeling in shock.
If your adored MS was really such a great and talented actor, then he wouldn't be threatened by a mere girl now would he????
Anonymous said...
Wow, six anti-Carter posts in a single half hour stint. And my, aren't they all so similar in language and composition! I will give you Carter haters this, you are persistent. Incredibly stupid, but persistent in your stupidity
yes, aren't they?
Must not have anything else to do
Hey Joe! Congrats on the season renewals! I am really looking forward to Season 10 and Season 3.
I am a bit concerned about the news regarding AT possibly splitting time between SGA and SG1. I do realize that much like the Wraith, AT sucks the life out of any given scene, but this is a bit unfair to a show that, IMO, has great potential. SGA shouldn't have to suffer because Carter is now a character without an arc on SG1; nevermind the fact that she doesn't have a place on SGA either. AT's character would be as redundant on SGA as it is on SG1. Wouldn't it be easy to ship her off to Washington so she can continue to pine for her "love interest?"
Sony Satan's Children, Sony Trolls... what's next?
New update from the Solutions poll:
My favourite SG-1 team character is:
Jack O'Neill 131
Daniel Jackson 291
Samantha Carter 129
Teal'c 32
Cameron Mitchell 25
Jonas Quinn 5
Total votes: 613
Thanks: we have your vote
My favourite female character is:
Samantha Carter 279
Janet Fraiser 113
Vala Mal Doran 274
Osiris 7
Sha'uri 2
Catherine Langford 6
Oma Desala 3
Carolyn Lam 8
Anise 5
You really have to wonder if the Anti-Sam/AT really wanted her gone, then they should have voted for Mitchell, rather than Vala.
This is as of 11/10/05.
I love how everyone is freaking out over the whole OMG Carter isn't in charge crap *rolls eyes* Amanda was pregnant people! She agreed to be away for 5 episodes after her daughter was born but there it was left open that if she wanted more time she could have it--making her CO of SG1 would have been utterly ridiculous given the situation.
Seriously, enough freaking character bashing!! I'm not a huge Carter fan anymore--haven't been since the ship was introduced but I think given what Amanda has been given to work with by the writers she's done a fantastic job and ALL the other actors on the show have done the same.
I miss RDA! Jack was my favorite and tho I've pretty much stopped watching the show, the episodes I did watch prove that ALL of the cast are doing a stellar job with what they're given.
If you have a problem with Mitchell or Vala or Daniel or whoever--look at the man that wrote this blog and the other writers--NOT the actors. They ACT, they do NOT write for the freaking show. Seriously, grow up and place the blame if there is any where it belongs--with the WRITERS!!
>>You really have to wonder if the Anti-Sam/AT really wanted her gone, then they should have voted for Mitchell, rather than Vala.>>
Hello, have you noticed Vala and Mitchell are not choices in the same poll? Do you realize internet polls mean nothing anyway because people can cheat them?
As for whoever said compromise is what we need, I so disagree. It's compromise that has put the show in the mess it's in now. On the ship, on Jack's new job, on finding something for the extraneous character Carter to do. They need to have a bit of artistic integrity and make some hard choices.
Extraneous? I believe that Mitchell is the one standing around with his thumb shoved up his ass.
Anonymous "GABITEER" said:
"Dancer of Spaz, thanks SO much for calling me a wanker and a liar in one post. Yes I paid money to see Amanda Tapping, yes I was one of those fans who adored the actor prior to her recent comments branding us fans liars. If you knew who I really was, you certainly wouldn't be calling me a wanker and a liar. You would probably fall off your chair in shock."
-----------------------------------
Well, I'm in a good mood right now. And I really could use some excitement in my day. A bit of shock wouldn't be so bad. So why don't you just say who you are and clear all this up, rather than posting anonymously about how offended you are by AT's actions (and now mine)?
You're reading WAY too much into her statement on her website. She never called fans liars. In fact, she didn't really place blame anywhere. She just addressed the issue, seeing as how it had escalated (without her knowledge) over the course of three days.
If anything, you're being overly-sensitive to a situation that ultimately affects only one person: AT. All the rest - all of OUR feelings, all of OUR consternation, all of OUR disgust... is moot right now.
If you truly were a Sam/AT fan prior to a couple of weeks ago, if you truly went to GABIT, AND if you truly feel like you were manipulated, then by all means, do speak up. I'd be open to see how you honestly felt, seeing as how you're the only person who went to Gabit, that I've seen, who is now complaining about AT's behavior.
IF you went, then please, do continue to complain and gripe. Anonymously.
If not, then drop the act.
That's all I'm sayin',
the dancer of spaz
--Hmmm. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do believe her name is "the dancer of spaz"...as in that is her Gateworld identity just like mine is ÜberSG-1Fan...as in this is how either of us can be contacted on Gateworld. So, NOT so anonymous, eh?--
GW screen names are the same as people's the real names? You're kidding me right? You don't really believe that do you?
Boy oh boy, I thought I'd heard all the possible delusions some fans could have, but this one is a doozy.
Sweetie I hate to break it to you and shatter your delusions, but GW screen names are just fancier identity smoke screens. Thinking they are real names is just crying out for help. Go and get some, please.
Oh grow up, will you? I made the assumption that people would recognize what I meant and not make an asinine comment like you just did.
So I'll clarify for logically-impaired, self-important individuals such as yourself.
I meant that she is accessible through GW and can be contacted or PM'd like other people on GW as can I.
Unlike brave souls such as yourself who don't even bother with that much, Mr. or Ms. "get real".
SIGNED
Mary Beth
Anonymous "GABITEER aka Sal" said:
Yes I paid money to see Amanda Tapping, yes I was one of those fans who adored the actor prior to her recent comments branding us fans liars.
Not for nothing, but Amanda never said anyone was a liar. She cleary said:
"HI Everyone;
I just wanted to say how great it was to meet those of you who were able to attend GABIT's event this past weekend. It was a fantastic event and I had a wonderful time.
The only negative thing to come out of the weekend is a rumour that needs to be put to rest. First of all, I have every intention of returning to Stargate next year. No, my contract has not been signed, but I fully expect that it will be soon. Yes, I have been offered the possibility of working on both SG-1 and Atlantis. To what extent still remains to be seen, but I will be doing a total of 20 shows or a full season. Am I happy about it? You betcha! Yes I have been offered another series but I will participate in it only if it they are willing to work around Stargate's schedule. Stargate starts as this series wraps up. If it can work, then great. If not, then I will not be doing the other series. Stargate is a wonderful series to work on and I have every intention of staying with it. I hope that this clears up any erroneous speculation.
Now back to GABIT. It was great! Thank you to everyone for your generosity. The gifts, the letters, the cards are so greatly appreciated. I hope you all had as wonderful a time as I did.
With much love,
Amanda
would not be returning to Stargate next year. Did she say at GABIT that she would not be back for season ten? No, she didn't. So if someone posted that she wasn't coming back, that would be their words, not hers, correct? She put a rumor to rest and that was that. I didn't see her denying anything else she said on stage at GABIT either. And I certainly didn't read her calling anyone a liar.
Taking a categorically clear statement like that and then twisting around it so that all of a sudden, Amanda called you a "liar" and denied what she said on-stage is just exactly the sort of broken-telephone rumor-starting fanwanking that causes this sort of thing to occur. It's people like you who run off and "paraphrase" in emotional diatribes without reference to the original source of your angst, that end up making problems where there are none. And all of a sudden we end up with a bowl of quarter-truths and baseless innuendo when in point of fact, the actual STATEMENT itself meant something completely different than what you made it out to seem.
Shame on you.
This is great! Some popcorn, some music and you've got a great show going on here.
It's GateWorld vs. Our Stargate/Sony
It's Sam vs. Daniel/Vala
It's fans of seasons 1,2,9 vs. fans of all the rest
I can't wait for the next round. The best part is, near as I can tell, it's mostly women sniping back and forth at each other. It's a war of ideologies. Those in Danny's corner hold Carter to a ridiculous standard of conduct, action, and even thought. Meanwhile, they totally throw that same standard out the window when it comes to Vala. The other side sees Carter as a decent model of a successful woman while seeing in Vala everything that stereotypes women and degrades them in the professional world.
I'm looking forward to what wacky justifications are next, so keep it coming Our Stargate/Sony. You're great for a laugh.
Edwin Saunders
My last post seems to have been half-eaten by the blog monster. I'll try this again.
Anonymous "GABITEER aka Sal" said:
Yes I paid money to see Amanda Tapping, yes I was one of those fans who adored the actor prior to her recent comments branding us fans liars.
Not for nothing, but Amanda never said anyone was a liar. She cleary said:
---BEGIN Quote from AMANDATAPPING.COM ---
"HI Everyone;
I just wanted to say how great it was to meet those of you who were able to attend GABIT's event this past weekend. It was a fantastic event and I had a wonderful time.
The only negative thing to come out of the weekend is a rumour that needs to be put to rest. First of all, I have every intention of returning to Stargate next year. No, my contract has not been signed, but I fully expect that it will be soon. Yes, I have been offered the possibility of working on both SG-1 and Atlantis. To what extent still remains to be seen, but I will be doing a total of 20 shows or a full season. Am I happy about it? You betcha! Yes I have been offered another series but I will participate in it only if it they are willing to work around Stargate's schedule. Stargate starts as this series wraps up. If it can work, then great. If not, then I will not be doing the other series. Stargate is a wonderful series to work on and I have every intention of staying with it. I hope that this clears up any erroneous speculation.
Now back to GABIT. It was great! Thank you to everyone for your generosity. The gifts, the letters, the cards are so greatly appreciated. I hope you all had as wonderful a time as I did.
With much love,
Amanda
---END Quote from AMANDATAPPING.COM ---
At no point therein did she say that she did NOT approach RCC. She didn't deny that fact. At no point therein did she call any of her fans "liars" either. She very clearly said she was trying to dispell a rumor. The rumor that she would not be returning to Stargate next year. Did she say at GABIT that she would not be back for season ten? No, she didn't. So if someone posted that she wasn't coming back, that would be their words, not hers, correct? She put a rumor to rest and that was that. I didn't see her denying anything else she said on stage at GABIT either. And I certainly didn't read her calling anyone a liar.
Taking a categorically clear statement like that and then twisting around it so that all of a sudden, Amanda called you a "liar" and denied what she said on-stage is just exactly the sort of broken-telephone rumor-starting fanwanking that causes this sort of thing to occur. It's people like you, who run off to forums and "paraphrase" in emotional diatribes without reference to the original source of your angst, that end up making problems where there are none. And all of a sudden we end up with a bowl of quarter-truths and baseless innuendo when in point of fact, the actual STATEMENT itself meant something completely different than what you made it out to be.
Shame on you.
I won't even bother to make a comment regarding Sam, Daniel, Vala or Cam because it seems as if there are those fans who go out of their way to say negative things about characters they don't like. However I will say that as a fan of Stargate SG-1, I'm truly embarrrassed by the nasty and petty personal comments people, from each fan base, are making about all of the actors on the show.
Daniel may not be my favorite character, but I still enjoy the character and I have any ill feelings towards Michael.
Each of you may be a admirers of Amanda's or Michael's, but you are in no way their friend or anyone even close to them. However, the last I read, Amanda and Michael really are friends and I seriously doubt either enjoys reading such hateful comments about the other.
Honestly, I think both MS and AT would be highly embarrassed and upset to know that there are people, who call themselves their fans, who are so outwardly hateful towards their collegues.
I was at Gabit, I heard Amanda's comments. Never did Amanda say anything negative about any of the other actors, writers and/or producers. Never did she say that she did not want to be a part of Stargate. Never did she state that she was leaving the show. All of these comments have been created by fans out of sheer panic or hatred.
I really would like to speak to the anonymous person who posted that he/she feels betrayed by Amanda. Perhaps you could send me an PM, because I am very curious as to why you feel as if Amanda is betraying her fans. I was the person who originally posted Amanda's comments here on the SAGC thread. I posted them exactly as I heard them, and I do not believe as if I have done something wrong. But I've never once took Amanda's response on her website as a slap in the face to me personally or as a fan. I admit I never imagined it would have caused such a stir on this forum and others. What bothers me the most is that people feel they have the right to post their hateful comments towards one of the actors simply because they do not like a character.
Perhaps it's time for some of you to take a step back from fandom and try to get a real perspective on life again. Because it really isn't healthy for you to hold this sort of hostility towards someone you don't even know.
Kat
ForeverSG1 said...
Daniel may not be my favorite character, but I still enjoy the character and I have any ill feelings towards Michael.
but she really meant...
"I [don't] have any ill feelings towards Michael."
Talk bout wishing you could edit a post. Laugh.
Kat( ForeverSG1 )
"Is it confirmed that CB has a full 20 episodes for s10?? "
I really really hope so!
Yeah me too. dressed in her dominatrix outfit she reminds me of that joke from spaceballs. you know, the "its megamaid, she's gone from suck to blow" one. Ha, ha
Edwin Saunders...
I agree with almost everything you said except one thing...I too am a fan of seasons 1 and 2. It's this new and improved shiny yet distinctly souless SG-1 from season 9 I can't quite sink my teeth into...
MB
Those in Danny's corner hold Carter to a ridiculous standard of conduct, action, and even thought. Meanwhile, they totally throw that same standard out the window when it comes to Vala. The other side sees Carter as a decent model of a successful woman while seeing in Vala everything that stereotypes women and degrades them in the professional world.
Edwin Saunders, from my POV you have summed things up beautifully.
I would only add that many of us Carter fans are riled up because we perceive (rightly or wrongly) that the continued participation of our favorite character on the show is being threatened. We're feeling the angst.
After all:
One way for TPTB to fix the leadership fiasco is to get rid of Carter. Period. There wouldn't be any competition (in the audience's mind) for the leadership role if Carter wasn't around. It would be a quick and easy fix. (Yes, I think the the leadership issue was handled horribly, but this is not the fix I'd like to see.)
Plus, we hear the hatred pouring forth from the Sony Boards (which I fondly refer to as the Dark Place of Negativity), and some of us are afraid that TPTB at Sony may actually listen to it (seeing as it is the Sony forum and all...). This is a Carter fan's greatest nightmare. So, we want the TPTB to hear that Carter does, indeed, have fans and supporters, and, unfortunately for everyone who doesn't have a vested interest in the character, the best way to do that seems to be posting in places like this blog. I personally suspect that, much like in the world of politics, sitting back and silently watching from the sidelines will accomplish nothing. And while all the shouting for this that or the other may still accomplish nothing (except annoy people who don't agree with me), at least I won't feel like I haven't tried to do anything.
Also, I don't think there would be nearly the level of concern about Vala if there wasn't a corresponding fear that Vala is being primed as a female replacement for Carter. I certainly don't pretend to speak for all Carter fans in any of this, but the sense I get from many (though certainly not all) is that Vala is fun (or at least acceptable) in small doses. Perhaps even in larger doses with her sex-kitten routine toned down. We just don't want Vala to replace Sam. Thus, when Vala (the character) is pimped by all and sundry, we like to point out that Carter is a great character too. At least in our minds.
So, I suggest you buy more popcorn, because, alas, until we hear something definitive about what will happen in season 11, the battle will go on, and Carter fans will continue to vigorously defend the character and the actress(hopefully with a modicum of civility).
Of course, this will only delight TPTB because they've managed to stir the fandom up again, holding our attention during the break.
Cheers,
Strix varia
"Is it confirmed that CB has a full 20 episodes for s10?? "
If so please let us know so I know that I wont have to bother turning Scifi on until 9PM when Atlantis comes on.
Of course I am sure you scifi will suggest you run out and get someone "fun" for that show too.. or are they just telling you to have Weir and Teyla wear low cut shirts.... I know they told you to have those two "make out".. that would be sooo kwweellll and the target audience will love it. You can claim it as an homage to the Carolina Panther Cheerleaders.
Truly the less I can watch of the Scifi channel the better. It is only a small thing, but it is the only way I can protest the destruction of the once great SG-1.
Why would anyone at Sony ever listen to or even consider the hateful opinions of a handful of fans over at the Sony forum? If Sony is that stupid, heaven help us. Let's see--say 20-25 fans out of 2.4 million? Or 20-25 fans out of many more million internationally? Sony cannot be that stupid.
Cathy
Anonymous said...
"Is it confirmed that CB has a full 20 episodes for s10?? "
If so please let us know so I know that I wont have to bother turning Scifi on until 9PM when Atlantis comes on.
Of course I am sure you scifi will suggest you run out and get someone "fun" for that show too.. or are they just telling you to have Weir and Teyla wear low cut shirts.... I know they told you to have those two "make out".. that would be sooo kwweellll and the target audience will love it. You can claim it as an homage to the Carolina Panther Cheerleaders.
Truly the less I can watch of the Scifi channel the better. It is only a small thing, but it is the only way I can protest the destruction of the once great SG-1.
What PRECISELY do you have against Vala's clothes in Origin, The Ties That Bind, The Powers That Be (except for Quetesh outfit) or Beachhead?
Avalon's dominatrix outfit was created by a WOMAN, btw. I'm not sure whether she was told by Skiffy what to design.
Carolina Panther Cheerleaders are women too. So I guess that makes it ok, after all, a Woman did. Go weir\teyla, show Mckay\beckett where its at.
Hiya joe,
i just read the spoilers for Ethon. i'm glad leda isnt back b/c that would just add that pesky emotional depth component to the story that has been gone on sg1 this year. i'm looking forward to more space battles to, what with the phasers and what not. it really sounds like a great episode. a great star trek episode that is.
You want to know what means this entire thing so laughable. For years TPTB must have been bring to for show that people enjoy and thus became so passionate about; and then the second that they do something that doesn't seem to make sense, that we haven't even seen totally play out - you decide they are unworthy and want to stage a coup.
It's entertaining all in its own right. I am not saying that at time TPTB haven't made mistakes, hell - they don't even claim it. But I am saying to be a fan of the show, is not to be a fan of what you want to show to be, rather it's a delecate balance of what is going to work.
Oddly enough, most of the fans I have talked to are more then happy with where the show is going. They like Mitchell (and for those bagging out how many thing Mitchell has done wrong in 10 episodes - shall we step back into season one and remember how many thing Jack did wrong?), they like the new dynamic and are willing to give it a chance. As for what is going to happen in season 10, that's anybodies guess. But I don't see how there can be any pre-detirmination of how it is going to play out until it is written, let alone until it starts to film.
I have been a Sci-Fi fan my entire life, and the Stargate fandom is one of the better ones. But right now, I can't see the logic behind any of your bitching. There are still 10 eps of season 9, there is a chance for things to be addressed.
Add to that, those who are not only character bashing the characters of the show, but the actors aswell I want to say one thing. You can dislike a character, you can dislike an actors style - but to dislike the person you have a personally know the person. Who here can claim that?
First off, I wish to express my apologies to anyone that I may have offended here with anything that I have written.
There are times that with the passionate effect of news being brought forth, sometimes my Italian half takes over.
LaCroix
Dee:
Stop now. You're only making yourself less credible everytime you post.
If I may, I would add that in future posts, as needed, may cause
another appearence of my Italian half.
LaCroix
OK, I'll bite. You step back into season one and tell me all the times Jack screwed up. (This should be rich.)
Why would anyone at Sony ever listen to or even consider the hateful opinions of a handful of fans over at the Sony forum? If Sony is that stupid, heaven help us. Let's see--say 20-25 fans out of 2.4 million? Or 20-25 fans out of many more million internationally? Sony cannot be that stupid.
Well, see, that's part of the problem. I don't know if Sony is that stupid or not. Or Scifi channel or anyone else who has significant influence on the direction of the show for that matter. I don't know, and I wish I did.
However, since Joe and company have given me 8 great seasons, I'm more inclined to distrust the higher ups on the food chain who may not really understand the show or the fandom. But perhaps that's just me.
Cheers,
Strix varia
Jack does screw up in season one and so does every one of SG1. And they're still doing it. Why would anyone in their right mind bring back anything from Anubis' lab?
I love the show, but I'm sick of them bringing back stuff through the gate that is dangerous. They should be making completely new and different stupid mistakes.
Oh, and Joe,
If we're not going to see Paul Davis can we at least hear he's been promoted? Oh, and I'd love to see an episode through the eyes of Siler.
Please, please, please don't have a silly episode making fun of the fans for the 200th episode. Oh, and please don't make the 200th episode a musical version. Actually never do that. I'd really love it if you could somehow bring Janet back for good.
And what happened to Nyan? Or Loren? Or Jack? Or Shifu? Or the Abydonians?
And while I'm asking for the impossible, could you forget about the Or-shark baby storyline. And if you must do it, make it a girl(less cliche), and for goodness sake don't make them twins.
Oh, and did the episode Grace take place completely in Carter's head of were there really aliens?
Can you do an episode where everyone on Atlantis has to talk with that psychologist?
And why are we letting these aliens make the US military look like wusses. First Vala and then Ba'al just make everyone look inept. Well, after the Katrina fiasco maybe they are.
Mr Anonymous - I am less crediable? Okay, sure... whatever helps you sleep at night. Fact is, without TPTB we wouldn't have a show, fact is they created a show we all obviously love, and another fact is the majority of fans are enjoying the new season and aren't panicking about the next. Point out how that isn't crediable. Explain to me how your opinion speaks for us all?
Strix Varia - thank you.
See people, another example of a fan who isn't going to write off something they haven't even seen!
As for when Jack screwed up, first episode he bought home the enemy (Teal'c) as a friend, not a prisnor. That's not SOP.
Emancipation: He left a team member alone in a possibly hostile environment.
Brief Candle: He not only slept with, but ended up contracting nancites which made him grow old.
And that is but to name a few MAJOR screw-ups.. there are a number of little ones to go along the way, even some not so little. Mitchell isn't alone in making mistakes, it's just that some people don't like him so they will find any fault in him they can see - ignoring the same faults in other characters.
And Mr Anonymous, if credibility is such an issue with you - why don't you post with a name.
The thing about some fans is (and I have noticed it slightly more in sci-fi, maybe because people are more passionate) they don't accept change well, and don't like others who do. I personally have always prefered my entertainment to be dynamic and changing, and cast changing is an amazing way to do that. If some don't like it, sure - you are intitled to that opinion. But can I be clear in reminding everyone that not everyone shares the same thoughts.
For example, not everyone is or was into Jack/Sam ship... That doesn't mean they wouldn't have liked it if it happened, just that they wouldn't petition for it, because they were willing to have what happens, happen.
I get your passionate, I do. But get that not everyone shares your view, and being rude and personally attacking people does nothing to get people to listen.
I meant to say in Emancipation Jack slept with a woman - not just slept with.
Yes, Mitchell isn't perfect. But I can't speak for anyone here, I enjoy that. A perfect person is so hard to watch.
Yeah, keep it up, Dee. Jack really screwed the pooch when he trusted Teal'c and brought him back to the SGC. That one hasn't paid off at all.
I just don't know why you insist on prattling on about "trust TPTB" and whining "don't prejudge". Tell ya what. You watch till the end of season nine and then come back and let us know how that shark baby turns out. I got dibs on a mutated third fin. Trust me, I hope I'm wrong and the producers have a great, original plot all worked out for the little tike. But, given how well things have gone with Mitchell, O'neill, command, etc. so far this season, I'm thinking that they'll just hire Roy Schieder as a random guest "Lt. Colonel" (everyone is a Lt. Col. now) to harpoon that freaky Ori/Vala hybrid.
So much intolerance for interspecies love.
Mr. Anonymous
Hey, you didn't ask me to name the mistakes that didn't pay off. Yes, bringing Teal'c over did, but it was a mistake. You cannot deny that. Yes, a well reasoned a planned mistake - but hey a mistake none the less. No one on SG-1 is perfect. You don't like that, right, your choice. I always prefered to watch people though.
Seriously, you pretend to be a fan, pretend that you want to show to succeed, pretend that you know what you are talking about. I would be suprised if you even knew where the term 'Jump the Shark' came from Mr Anonymous.
And I am questioning my own sanity for discussing a show I enjoy with someone who only has the ability to produce a negative opinion and not one bit of reason to back it up.
"I don't like it..." Yeah, well, the show isn't made just for you buddy. Remember that.
I get where most of the complaints are coming from at least to do with the leadership. But then again, for awhile now I don't think even Jack was so much a CO as a guiding and uniting force - because even then they all did what they wanted/had too. That's the thing about 'leaders' they don't have to be in charge, they have to know their men and what they are capable of.
Then again, even if the leadership role is addressed, people are still going to hate Mitchell. For the life of me I cna't figure out why, but I think I like it that way.
Edwin Saunders said:
"This is great! Some popcorn, some music and you've got a great show going on here.
It's GateWorld vs. Our Stargate/Sony
It's Sam vs. Daniel/Vala
It's fans of seasons 1,2,9 vs. fans of all the rest
I can't wait for the next round. The best part is, near as I can tell, it's mostly women sniping back and forth at each other. It's a war of ideologies. Those in Danny's corner hold Carter to a ridiculous standard of conduct, action, and even thought. Meanwhile, they totally throw that same standard out the window when it comes to Vala. The other side sees Carter as a decent model of a successful woman while seeing in Vala everything that stereotypes women and degrades them in the professional world.
I'm looking forward to what wacky justifications are next, so keep it coming Our Stargate/Sony. You're great for a laugh."
SHH! You gonna ruin it with your common sense and rational thinking.
*passes the popcorn*
Why would anyone at Sony ever listen to or even consider the hateful opinions of a handful of fans over at the Sony forum? If Sony is that stupid, heaven help us. Let's see--say 20-25 fans out of 2.4 million? Or 20-25 fans out of many more million internationally? Sony cannot be that stupid.
So let's play this back the other way, shall we? Why would anyone at Sony/MGM/Bridge ever consider the opinions of the fans at a forum like Gateworld where it is almost de rigeur to be cheering for the show's cancellation, where the polls are so skewed to try and deliver a result that suits the agenda of the resident clique of fans that even Joe has had to speak out about it and yet this bias still continues. Why on earth would they want to placate a group of fans whose opinions are so obviously out of step with the larger viewing public, as can be seen by the ratings and demographics, whose only interest is in a charcter who will never return and one who is rapidly being superceded by a newer (younger) model? Fans who are not campaigning (oh, no no no) but are writing long, rambling diatribes to the producers claiming that they speak for all fans and telling them that even the "rabid anti-shippers" do actually want Sam and Jack to be together. (Do these people ever listen to themselves?) Gatwworld, wake up to yourselves. Your day is done. You are finished, your opinions belong in the past. The show has moved on and left you behind. And the only people not delighted by it are the sad little cohort siting here in their own personal flat earth society, bemoaning change and weeping for the "good old days". In season six, I think Corin Nemec (whom you all professed to care for so deeply) had excellent words of advice for all you quaint old Flat Earthers here. He said: "Change is beautiful thing". Perhaps you should all think on that, if you are indeed able to think without Darren telling you what to think about.
The post above this is clearly made by a frequent visitor to Sony who does not look at themselves to see the sad, angry state they are in that allows them to spew nothing but vile hatred of certain characters, and worse yet, lets that seep into making nasty comments about the actors themselves, because they are threatened by that very character. They come here and condemn the thousands of fans who visit the GW boards (many of whom, unlike themselves, have watched Stargate for 6-8 years)and the GW admins while spewing vile hatred over at Sony in their little tiny group. They then get on their soap box about "the agenda of the resident clique of fans that even Joe has had to speak out about it and yet this bias still continues" but in the very next breathe they spew the same nonesense they spew at Sony with their tell-tale "agenda" and "BIAS" by saying "whose only interest is in a charcter who will never return and one who is rapidly being superceded by a newer (younger) model?". The Sony bottomdwellers only reason for disliking the 2 characters referenced in this quote is because both of those characters threaten, and rightly so, their pet characters Daniel and Vala - well the Sony bottomdwellers should be worried and worry leads to anxiety and to stress and we all know that stress leads people to say and do things they might not ordinarily do so I write their vile hatred, and disturbing personal attacks, off to their stress and anxiety - they really should step back and get some professional help.
In the spirit of identification, most of which I do not see here from those that like to make the most repugnant posts (the easliy identifiable Sony "lemmings"-- I love that term, I am so glad someone used this term because it really is aprapoe for the Sony "clique"):
Sue C.
As a fan of Amanda Tapping, I was there when she stood up in front of a room full of her fans, without prompting and told us how she had to go to Robert Cooper regarding her contract for the next season, how she wasn't in the "club" because she didn't play golf, how they didn't know what to do with her character etc. The implication being how badly she'd been treated. So of course her fans (myself included) leapt to her defence and started writing letters and posting comments both in Joe's blog and in the forum proper.
Next thing we know, Amanda turns around and says the only negative thing to come from Gabit was the "rumour" that needed to be put to rest. Her statement on her offical site implies that it is her fans that got things wrong and stirred things up. I have had dear friends on the phone to me over the last week in tears thinking they got Amanda Tapping into trouble by reporting what she said UNPROMPTED at her con in front of a room full of people.
Well I am sorry Amanda Tapping, but you knew exactly what you were doing when you told us about the contracts and season 10, you knew exactly how your fans would react, you knew and wanted us to start writing letters to support you, and then to appease your masters you turned around and washed your hands of it, saying that the "rumours" were the only "negative" thing to come from the Gabit weekend.
I am afraid there is another negative thing that came from the weekend. My absolute disgust at your behaviour and disregard for the feelings of your fans. You can cut the sweetness and light act Amanda, because that is exactly how I see it now, an act to manipulate the people who support you and believe in you, the people who will influence discussions on your status and future. If you were so wondersful and sweet and caring, then you would never have used your fans in this way.
If they give Oscars for blatant manipulation and hypocracy, Amanda Tapping you would win hands down.
An ex fan.
Oh and before Sal and company jump on me, I am a poster in SAGC thread. I still will post there as I think Sam is a great character. I just don't think Amanda is so wonderful anymore after her behaviour over the past week.
And Amanda? Your fans did NOTHING wrong. You did something wrong by using them like this in your contract negotiations.
Let's review, where should I post-
I could post over at Solutions. But do I really want to take an oath saying S6 doesn't exist, TPTB really screwed up by having Jonas Quinn as a character (let alone the actor), and the only ones you're allowed to watch/speak about are the ones where Daniel/MS are in.
Am I also told to believe that Sam and the ship is the reason why Daniel is was pushed into the background and why even Teal'c didn't have any screen time.
As I stated before, I have read slash. But when the author decides it prudent to remind the reader that the ship is keeping the boys apart (even though they acknowledge that the actors orientation is not in question, but the preception of fictional characters are), then have posts on their website by the same authors start to spill over on to the actor. That's why I left.
Also, there are some fem-slash writers out there, who are not happy that Janet is gone and Sam has no one to turn to, I might add.
I could post to OS, The Alpha Gate but the same rules apply. Sci-Fi BB's? That board used to be a place of great discussion of all things Stargate. But sadly, even that has changed.
So I post here now, where I can discuss what I want. Where I can talk of s6 and not feel the censure
coming.
What I find funny is what you said about CN. If TPTB really wanted a true change in where both shows where/are going, why didn't they stand up and keep Jonas ( along with CN). Why weren't cast changes that started in S6 up until now done?
Sorry, I really do not see your point. And yes I do think for myself and will continue to do so in the future.
Sorry Joe about that.
LaCroix
reading thru all these comments here the only thing i see is almost unnanymous calls for for sam carter not to be on either show. atlantis fans doen't want her, sg1 fans don't want her. can't see any evidence of unnanymous support as someone claimed. the only ones who do still want sam are those diehard shippers who won't be happy until the wedding happens for real and not just in an alt universe or in their dreams.
Dancer of Spaz said: "only those with testicular fortitude to post under their names should post here", - which when you think about it is why Dancer of Spaz posts as guess what? Dancer of Spaz. Our little Dancer has no testicular fortitude to actually put her/his own name to their posts.
Gotta keep taking those hormones Dancer.
Other little gems from our 'erdite' Ballerina of Fluff include Sony's Satan Children, Cult of Doom and calling people 'idiotic in the most pathetic of ways'. It is so good to see you do admit to not being against name calling my little Flamenco Kiddie, after all you do excel at the juvenile levels of name calling associated with elementary school.
Tell me, my Tiny Ballerina, you seem to enjoy ranting against the Sony site. It features strongly in the majority of your posts. Does this mean there is a place that has unbiased moderation, so that when you start calling people pathetic and idiotic, you might get a smack on your little fluffy pink botty?
But it sounds to me that you are not sure if the hormones are working my little Irish Jigger? After all you write of people being wo(man) enough as if there is doubt in your mind as to what they and you are.
I especially loved your little rant at the end my little Sugar Plum Fairy, when you say that the anonymous crap is getting old. Guess that is why you call yourself Dancer of Spaz still and not Mary Sue or Bobby Joe.
By the way my little Nutcracker (and from your testicular reference, I am not sure if you are capable of cracking nuts - chestnuts of course), has anyone ever told you that Spaz was an old nickname for someone who has autistism?
Of course these days it is very politically incorrect to make such references, as I am sure you know.
If Amanda has a no nudity clause in her contract, why does she do raunchy sex scenes with her onscreen boyfriend, boast about being naked for her New Order 2 gel scene with Fifth, and then do shots where she looks like a $10 hooker in our flag?
It's degrading even without nudity.
Please, no Vala in Season 10! She dresses too much like a slut!
Well, then, I would say you are blind. Almost all the fans making statements here are very much in favor of Sam on SG-1 and most fans who are concerned about Atlantis also state that they really like Sam and AT. So good try, but your perception is way off.
I find it so interesting that these few Sam-haters like to come here and say that they see little support for sam/AT. I think that they are just threatened by her and just simply WANT to believe that this is true. Sorry to tell you, but she does have alot of support, but go on believing your myth if it makes you feel better.
Just to note, there are MANY fans of Sam and the show in general who are not sam/jack shippers.
To the ex-fan of AT---Others have tried to point out that AT was not saying anything negative about her fans at all--the rumor was about not being back for season 10. People have already pointed this out and it seems you are stuck on the same way of thinking. That's to bad, anonymous. I've now read numerous reports and messages, and fans can say nothing but how well GABIT went.
What is more bizarre --I find it odd that you have to post your feelings on this blog in the first place. You are publicly saying these things, yet your are not giving AT a chance to respond to you. The fair thing to do is write to her directly and let her know--give her a chance to respond--not write your feelings on a blog. Can you imagine someone being upset with you and they handle it in the manner you are doing?! One wonders why you are doing it in the first place -- your credibility is very low.
Chocdoc
Please, no Vala in Season 10! She dresses too much like a slut!
Saint hypocrite... you're so pathetic.
I'm wondering why it is all the sudden okay to post negative things regarding actors/actresses.
There are actors and actresses I prefer and those I don't just like anyone else. And whereas there's nothing wrong with asking questions about the cast, it is highly inappropriate to post in an open forum or setting negative statements regarding the cast. Period.
You have a problem with someone? Write them a letter and tell them how you were offended by something they said or did...don't air your dirty laundry in public "Mr. or Ms. Anonymous Gabit Goer."
I'm especially ashamed if you really are a member of the SaGC because it seems to me that you don't know her at all if you believe she lied to anyone.
The reason I can dismiss your interpretation of the events is quite simple...it contradicts everything I have seen/read/heard from both the people who've met her and know her and it contradicts the information I heard directly from those who attended the event. Therefore I have to believe that you misinterpreted things grossly.
So if you want to believe that Amanda told everyone she was leaving the show, then more power to you although it never happened. But since you were so offended as to air your dirty laundry in public, anonymously to boot, I suggest you write her a letter and let her know how you feel.
MB
I have been to all of the boards mentioned and every single one of them has intelligent considerate people. But they also have some people on each board that say mean, hateful and spiteful things. Some have commented here.
The angry, nasty viscious comments only reveal that the people who make such comments are mean-spirited themselves no matter who they are a fan of. There are good, decent people who are fans of Sam, of Daniel, of Teal'c, of Jack, of Sam/Jack, of Jack/Daniel of whatever they love of the show. But each faction of fans seem to also have people who love to say horrible vindictive things as well.
Those of us who are better than that please don't allow the behavior of a few make you hate other fans. Don't get pulled down by them. Don't believe everyone on the other boards are as terrible as they say or as they act. Those who are spewing out accusations are wrong, most of those on any of the fan boards are nice people. There are only a few vindictive people that make it difficult to enjoy any fan board at all. And I'm sure someone can't wait to tell me that if I don't like it I can just stay off of them. I don't like what some opinions have been, but the are entitled to them. I just will respond with reasoned logical arguments and hope the insults are kepted to a minimum.
It is sort of sad and funny at the same time that the very people who are condemning others for negativity are themselves so negative and nasty that they negate their own argument.
To the GABIT attendee who saw through AT's manipulation of her fans, brava to you. Well done. AT has turned the wounded lamb routine into a career strategy. I'm sure she's a very nice person, but she's no saint and not above using whatever tools she has to get what she wants. Too bad the tools this time were her fans.
Ex-fan said Her statement on her offical site implies that it is her fans that got things wrong and stirred things up.
It does? Interesting interpretation. I think it is quite possible to read Amanda's message and not come to that conclusion at all.
Listen, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong to feel the way you do, but I would ask you to at least consider the possibility that there are other ways to interpret AT's message (and the entire situation) that do not reflect on her as poorly as you apparently want everyone to believe.
By dissing her (the actress herself, not the character she portrays) in a public venue, you increase the seriousness of your accusations. This is a real person whose moral character you are calling into question in front of a potentially huge audience, and maybe that's why you continue to post anonymously. Your words are hurtful and damning. But by not owning up to your statements, you also deny yourself credibility. If you are ashamed (or afraid) to be associated with your words and beliefs, you should probably question yourself as to why you are posting them for the world to see.
Cheers,
Strix varia
OK, Here's what I don't get about some posters on this blog.
It is fine to trash the show IF you are talking about Mitchell, Vala, the writers, or even Daniel/MS.
But it is bad to speak negatively about Sam to the point that people who do are evil and Satan's children and other such things.
OKaaay, you can't have it both ways and look anywhere near reasonable. You do know that makes you look quite silly to be ranting about negativity on one hand and then bashing other fans or characters on the other hand, don't you?
Also, Sam/Amanda fans--you do also realize that the folks who are posting the most outrageous statement are winding you up and sitting back and waiting for you to take the bait and then squeeing in delight when you do--they want you to rant and rave.
Joe, please come and write a new entry soon, this one is getting hard to navigate. :)
Joe,
Please keep Sam off Atlantis. The Atlantis fans are a happy bunch and we love our show and characters just the way they are. They are all new and we are just getting to know them. We love Sheppard and McKay snarking at each other and the humor between them. We are growing to love Ronan, Teyla is sweet, Weir is a strong leader, Carson is so much fun and Zelenka brings us plenty of comic moments. Major Lorne is a nice addition too. There are enough characters already on the show to give us plenty of wonderful storylines. If you bring Sam over they will be pushed into the background and that's not fair to the fans or the characters who are doing such a wonderful job entertaining us every week.
I would hate the see the Atlantis fans fighting each other like they are now on SG1. So far Atlantis is a fun place to be so please, please leave Sam on SG1 and leave Atlantis alone.
Not all Atlantis fans are SG1 fans, some of us left SG1 because we were unhappy with the way the show was going and others have never even seen SG1. Please don't mess with this wonderful show.
Sad to say that I lost a lot of respect for AT already when she appeared in an American flag with her breasts hanging out--great role model there.
AT is not even American so who could she have been representing--hmmm.
Funny thing is, the other day on GW, I saw a person slamming the sexual content on the show and her sig pic was Amanda in the flag. How nice.
Yes, yes, put your god damn burka on. And cover your face up too. You're showing too much ankle as well. And don't look up or at men when in public. I'm sick of you women trying to corrupt society with your breasts and what not. And any of you people who talk about sex like it's something for public consumption, well, I'll be looking down on you all as you roast in the cleansing fires of brimstone.
Hi Joe:
I think this last batch of comments has cured me from reading them at all. It's so depressing to see such netgative and mean-spirited discord among the fans of SG1. I think maybe it's time to stop the comments option, and maybe go back to your Q & A on Gateworld where there's a modicum of control over what gets allowed on there.
My extended family and I are all fans of the show, although I'm the only one on-line, and I must tell you that everyone loves the show, and is happy with ALL the characters, although liking certain ones more than others,we have no wish for anyone to leave the show except of their own free will. We also are enjoying the inclusion of the new characters, Mitchell AND Vala, and hope to see some great "Team" episodes where they can all interact and rely on each other, and form great bonds between all of them.
We enjoyed the past seasons very much, but are also enjoying the new direction of Season 9. It's been quite a ride!
I watch TV shows like SG1, Lost, CSI, to be entertained, and I have no desire to shape the direction any show chooses to go, that's what writers, directors and producers are for. The show-runners are much more qualified than I am to take the show forward, and while I may be disappointed in different story-lines and the way they're concluded, I still enjoy watching and seeing how differently someone saw it than I did. All of you have a wonderful talent, and should be proud of what you've done with the show over the years, you still manage to surprise me with some of the episodes, and you're all to be commended for the imagination and skill you've shown in making SG1 the wonderful show it still is after all these years. And also for putting up with the craziness that abounds in the Stargate fandom! I'll bet you didn't plan on that when you started with the show, but you've done pretty well dealing with it, considering the mean, malicious and pure nastiness that you all get bombarded with constantly, it's a wonder any of you are still able to think of any fan as anything but "wacky".
Hope to see you back with SG1 & Atlantis for their next season, and I hope you and other TPTB will be at the convention in Vancouver in March. I'd love to meet some of you and thank you for the years of pure enjoyment and entertainment you've given me.
Regarding Gabit --> There was a rumor going around that Amanda refused to sign on or return for season 10. "That" was the rumor Amanda was trying to stop.
I am very, very, very glad that Gateworld Forum has moderators because it prevents the BS that I've been reading here about a lovely actress (Amanda Tapping). Why it is open season on her is beyond me, but the more ugliness I read about her, the more I want to support her. This blog is dirty now.
Chocdoc said: “I find it so interesting that the Sam fans are not crying for any character to be off the show, but the so-called little subset of Danny fans are very rude and the only ones crying for anyone to be off the show. It shows how immature you are. And I don't see any Sam fans trying to say SG-1 should be the Sam Carter show. I also don't see any Sam fans saying that EVERYONE loves Sam/AT. AT does have alot of support, but no character or actor has EVERYONE's support.”
TWO POSTS Later:
“Those of you that have nothing to do but bash Sam, well I have to wonder what you're so threatened about? Like maybe the fact that she - on a bad day - can act circles around your little darling MS and, since day one, has proven that, even though he thought that he was hired as the co-star of the show, she took that place through sheer talent and ability....while MS amused himself playing video games with Chris.
There are so many Sony Trolls over here that board must be reeling in shock.
If your adored MS was really such a great and talented actor, then he wouldn't be threatened by a mere girl now would he????”
Hmmm. Based on that and other comments, I’m seeing some Sam fans doing EXACTLY that ChocDoc. Granted as are some Vala fans and some Daniel fans–and as a “Daniel fan” who finds Vala irritating (but NOT a slut who should be kicked off, like some “Sam” fans are lobbying for), likes Mitchell (he’s okay in command) and pined for Sam’s return (yay! She’s back! Put her to work on something cool!), I find being lumped in one category annoying–I wonder if I should ever go look at these infamous Sony boards. I tried once and the page took too long to load.
What really burns me is why are posters dragging the actors into this trolldom fare is beyond me. I think AT and MS are both wonderful actors, and they seem to have a friendly working and personal relationship from what LITTLE I’ve observed, that I am ONLY basing on public interviews in the dvds and otherwise (so if they’re not friendly, then both of them are even BETTER actors than I suspected)–and I certainly would never presume to know their minds or inner feelings.
Stop bashing the actors. Stop stereotyping fans. Stop acting holier than thou (leave that to the Ori) and note to self: stop banging head against wall trying to rationalize irrational rants.
Strix wrote:
By dissing her (the actress herself, not the character she portrays) in a public venue, you increase the seriousness of your accusations... If you are ashamed (or afraid) to be associated with your words and beliefs, you should probably question yourself as to why you are posting them for the world to see.
While I agree with what you say in principle, I think the tendency to take oneself too seriously often occurs here. Posting comments on a blog that perhaps only 1-2% of the viewing audience (if that) of Stargate SG-1 will ever read is not quite the same as the "world" seeing them.
Since I'm here reading this blog and replying, I'm certainly including myself in this category. I think perhaps the rest of the "world" might think those of us who spend time writing about and arguing over fictional TV characters (Jack belongs with Sam vs. Jack belongs with Daniel, Sam is better than Vala, Vala should be a member of the team, etc.) are a tad "obsessed." I would hope that most people understand that while the Internet has many good attributes, it is also a place where any wingnut can hold court on any subject, saying whatever they want under the cloak of anonymity; it should all be taken with a very large grain of salt.
And, I suppose for someone like Joe, who seemingly has a bit of a dark sense of humor and never answers questions directly, preferring to play games with people's questions, this blog and online forums provide him with good theatre.
And...I miss Jack. I loved Jack -- warts and all. I don't dislike Mitchell because he's not Jack, I just find him boring because he seems not to have any kind of personality at all; not even a remnant one. Don't know if he ever will develop one. And that's sad to me, because I loved Ben as Crichton. What a waste of the man's talent.
Gabby Ellison
The Sam fans are such saints - not. They are the ones who call Vala Vulger, they are the ones demanding the show be cancelled now, they are also the ones saying that Robert Cooper hates women and that TPTB are only doing this to Amanda for daring to have a baby. Then they turn around and cry piously that they are saintly and good. Of course they will never do an evil thing like a campaign to make sure Amanda/Sam stays on the show, no never. The standard letter they want everyone to sign and send in is not a campaign. Not at all. It's differnet because they thought of it and they are true fans (who want the show to be cancelled now they don't have what they want). See, it is diferent. Very. Because, because they say so. So there ner!
Wow, thats a massive over generalization.
I like AT well enough and I think Vala has done vulger things.
I dont know Robert Cooper.
I have never claimed sainthood.
Why is campaigning for a character to stay on a show "evil"?
Are MS fans evil? (as one I will say no)
Are farscape fans evil? (as one I will say no).
I dont want SG-1 to be cancelled. I want SG-1 to be SG-1. Why is that wrong? If it is wrong how could it possibly in any reality be considered "evil".
Anonymous said Stop bashing the actors. Stop stereotyping fans.
On this we agree completely. Lines of civility have been crossed on many sides. Spamming the blog by bashing any actor is completely unacceptable, IMO, just as slander is unacceptable in "the real world." And anyone who calls other fans derogatory names loses the high ground, which is almost always a strategic mistake as well as an ethical one.
Personally, I'm irritated by nasty anonymous posts in much the same way as I'm irritated by nasty anonymous graffiti on a bathroom wall. I give their messages about as much consideration and validity, as well, but hate in any form is ugly to behold and has the potential to cause hurt. I wish people would stop it.
Cheers,
Strix
What is everyone's problem with Vala? She is smokin' hottt!
Joe, do you think we can see Vala wearing pasties and a thong next season?
What the hell? I thought we were STARGATE fans first. If Stargate only AT or only MS or only CJ? No. It is, what it is because of the team. Not an individual actor. Get over yourselves. Its ok to like and adore an actor but don't ruin it for others. You can like one actor without the need to tear down the others.
What "vulger" (should be vulgar, btw) did Vala do exactly? Examples, please...
There's an idea that I think TPTB would love - let's all start a campaign for pasties, thongs and cheap sexual innuendo jokes for EVERYONE - not just Vala - and then they will really have a show they can claim is fun to write for and I am sure the brains at Sci-Fi would well and truly put it in place.
Binkpmmc
You know the guys are pretty enough, but I dont want to see them in pasties and thongs....well except maybe hammond ;)
Seriously what is all this crp. What you say we have a military team dressed in military gear and explore the galaxy and shoot bad guy dressed in armor.
Is SG-1 becoming the next fricking incarnation of Lexx?
Joe
God bless you if you read all the way down to this remark, but here goes. I was reading a thread from a little over a year ago about command of sg1 and the addition of ben browder and claudia black into the show. It's a pretty sad read, because everyone in the thread talked about their worst case scenario and how they thought it playing out so poorly was highly unlikely. Still, the reality of the situation on sg1 anymore with BB in command for no reason and CB pushing AT off the show is exactly what everyone thought would never happen. How sad that it has worked out that way and that you've totally compromised the integrity of the sg1, Sam Carter's character, AT's contributions to the show's success, and the quality of work we fans had come to expect. Sorry for being so blunt, but i need to let someone know how disappointed i am, and how worried i am for the future. i wish there was no future.
For that person who question Amanda'a nudity contract, and then commented on her love scenes and the scene in New Order...
A nudity contract covers frontal nudity on screen. It does not cover being partially nude on set. She actually does no frontal nudity, and if you see her character showing her parts - it's a body double.
We have magic with Mckay/Zelenka, I'd hate to see that fade. I didn't much like the McKay character until he appeared in Atlantis. In SG1 he couldn't outshine Sam in the brains department no matter how he tried. In Atlantis it's different he's the go to guy and I'd hate to see Sam outshine him on this show. As we've seen in "Trinity" Rodney can bring himself down to the size of an ant, he doesn't need anyone else's help. Not to say that's all Sam would be doing. Actually, what would be really cool is if she appeared in an ep where she totally undermines Kavanagh and then has to kill him. That would be cool. Actually any episode where he gets killed would be cool.
Do people have such short memories or am I just too easily pleased? In season 8 we get some insight into the Jack/Sam ship. We hear Sam's own Dad tell her she can still have what she wants; basically hinting that she shouldn't let the job keep her from getting her man. Jack gets the same kind of speech from his girlfriend. Episode 20 sees them fishing together in a way that suggests more than colleagues.
So enter season 9. No Jack and Sam I just assumed they'd moved on to different departments so that they could get together without breaking any rules. Maybe it helped that I'd read that RDA wasn't gonna be around much but, as much as I love Jack I noticed the Stargate mythology was still going and that is why I tune in. That is the whole reason I gave the show a look in from season one, because as corny as some people thought the film was, I felt there was huge potential there. SG1 has proved this to be true. Along the way I fell in love with some characters, I missed Daniel in season six but his loss didn't detract from the mythology.
In Season 9 the Jaffa are free and lack direction, the Ori are some seriously scary assed villains. They scare me more than the people who knock on my door on Saturday mornings. I was quite happy to watch Mitchell try to pick up the pieces of SG1 whilst helping to move the mythology forward. Everyone came back in time didn’t they?
I guess we all watch the show for different reasons. When I start to notice that Daniels looking a lot bigger these days or that Amanda has a bit of a tummy, or that that the paint is peeling in the Gate room then I blame the writing and or direction for failing to keep my attention.
This fandom reminds me so much of the Star Trek fandom, so much petty bickering it’s unreal!
Anonymous ex-AT fan said:
"I am afraid there is another negative thing that came from the weekend. My absolute disgust at your behaviour and disregard for the feelings of your fans. You can cut the sweetness and light act Amanda, because that is exactly how I see it now, an act to manipulate the people who support you and believe in you, the people who will influence discussions on your status and future. If you were so wondersful and sweet and caring, then you would never have used your fans in this way."
Oma Desala replies:
"The river tells no lies, though standing on the shore, the dishonest man still hears them."
Are you honest? Are your intentions good or evil? Did anyone truly lie? Or did you just hear what you wanted to hear? Or did you really hear anything at all? In the end, you must be the judge of yourself and your actions. And I truly hope you will someday forgive - both AT for the slight you perceive she dealt you and even more importantly yourself.
Whatever, man. Just don't mess up Sam, and REALLY don't mess up Atlantis. I trust you guys, Stargate has always rocked.
As for Vala, I kinda liked her. But there was a sense of relief, of being "home" when she left. She was kind of tacky, and I always appreciated Stargate for being a little more classy than all the other shows. Admittedly, I'm not a Sci-Fi fan, and I find anything other than Stargate and Star Wars unbearable. ;p
Good luck on Season 10!
Hey Joe,
I was just checking out the blogs at random today and saw this. I want to start off by saying that I'm a HUGE Carter fan and I missed her a great deal in the beginning of season 9.
However, I think the crossover idea isn't such a great idea as you might think. When SGA was first created, it was done in another galaxy so there wouldn't be that many crossovers and the people from each galaxy going 'Ooh! Let's engage the stargate and get help from the other people!' I was afraid that with the introduction of the Deadalus, that was exactly what was going to happen, but thankfully SGA has remained independent.
But if Carter crosses over, what will become of the Atlantis cast? SGA is still a baby compared to SG-1, and if you guys start bringing in the vets and making THEM shine in a series that isn't THEIRS, how are the true stars supposed to be developed? SGA fans don't watch the show because it's another SG-1, or because they're hoping to see glimpses of SG-1 in there. They watch it because it's a TOTALLY different show with a different feel, with different needs and perspectives. We LIKE our show the way it is. We LIKE our characters. I think a lot of SGA fans feel that if Carter were to start taking up SGA cast time, a lot of good actors would stop showing up.
I for one would love to see more development with the minor casts that already exist in SGA such Zelenka and Lorne. Also, we still know close to nothing about the main cast other than little tid-bits. The person we know the most about is McKay and that only because he was in SG-1 too, and had a tendency to babble a million miles an hour. Teyla, Ronon, and Carson seem to have very little screen time as it is. We still don't know a whole lot about Ronon or Teyla's life before meeting the SGA team despite the fact that Teyla has been there since the beginning. Nor do we know a whole lots about Sheppard or Weir.
SG-1's S9 is still in the introductory part, with, like you said, a lot of new people being introduced. Once the introductions are over with, Carter will probably once again shine the way she did in the past. I don't think it's fair for SGA to have to be turned into a show where the SG-1 stars go off to in order to have more screen time, because that's what it basically sounds like. That since Sam doesn't have a big role in SG-1, then she can have more screen time in SGA, despite the fact that all the fans feel there's already too little time in the show for all the things we want to see done with the characters (especially since SG-1 gets 2 more hours than SGA).
Anyway, enough babbling on my part. I just thought I'd let you know the feelings of a SGA on the subject.
PLEASE don't ruin Atlantis!
Holy Mackerel! I like both shows, and I am thrilled to read that Sam might appear in SGA, as it seems reasonable. She's the main science-whiz at SG-1 -- you'd think she would hitch a ride once in awhile on the ship returning to Atlantis. I don't think she would be a threat to the Atlantis team --not like a "home wrecker". They're quite a cohesive bunch.
I hope it happens.
OzGirl
I thought the comments section was for addressing things JM said in his updates not trashing the actors & each other. How naive was that?
fuck
Just wanted to say that this blog made me laugh out loud. Funniest thing I've read in ages (well since I read the blog above it...)
Also the whole trailer thing sounds like a smokescreen. I think we need some more answers on that one. ;)
Seems like some people have already made their views on the rest of Season 9 and Season 10. O.o When did everyone become a fortune teller?
Anyway, I just wanted to say that some of us sane folks will wait until we actually see the episodes to judge them. You've done a great job with SG and I hope you'll be a part of it as long as it lasts. :)
I have to agree with... well, this page is so long it would be hard to list them, so I shall refer to them as the "sane people". Now...
1) Season Nine is not even over yet. Perhaps we should watch it before we form our opinions about it...?
2) Joe has been on the team now for what, five, six seasons? Seasons that, presumably, some of the frothy-mouthed have not despised, since they evidently continued to watch them. I would posit that the writers know what they are doing; they have done okay thus far... No matter how much a fan may love a character or storyline, the writers are the ones who created it, and who ultimately control it. We trust them to do what is best; that is why we watch the shows. We don't write them; we never have. Why should we suddenly feel we have the right to criticize the writers now? Ah, yes... because now we have a forum open to all. Unfortunately the people who wish to put forth their opinions are often those with opinions nobody would listen to were they given the choice (for example, I imagine a lot of you don't care what I am writing - or are enraged by it. flame away...).
3) The possessive pronoun is "your". the contraction of "you are" is "you're". Not intending to create a mass debate on this, but it is possible to review what you have written before posting it, and a grasp of basic English may help to give your argument more weight. I always get the feeling when I see posts rife with errors that they are rushed, and thus not well-thought-out.
4) I am amused by the number of requests for the writers not to ruin SG-1 and Atlantis; I know how hard the entire writing team must be working to ensure that their livelihood and the universe they clearly love so much is destroyed....
5) Was I the only one who thought that
"If I did, I would have been asked to return for the show's 10th season by now"
was a joke...? Perhaps there is something wrong with my sense of humour.
Hope nobody has an aneurysm over this...
Peace