Jfw64 – Doesn’t that make it true, then, that piracy killed the show? I wouldn’t necessarily have thought so, myself, but if what you say is true…

Smart Man. I agree that the show is for adults i strated watching stargate when i was 6 and have grown up with the show and i feel the show has grown with me. its sad that this will be the first time since i was 6 that stargate wont be on. but life goes on and i will hope for atlantis movies or sg1 movies even sgu movie to finish the story that would be good. i have always thought people wont always be so angry about a show ending if the networks just let them finish the story.

I think the reason the show did as poorly as it did was along the lines of what David was saying. As a Stargate fan, as repetitive as it may have been, I got used to them going through the gate at least once an episode. Going on a mission, saving someone, something and doing what we were all used to and liked. SGU went a total different direction but I think it was too much of a change for most fans. I still have and will watch every episode and do enjoy the show.

Wouldn’t it be great if an actor someday had the you know what’s to tell the truth about what he or she thought and not sugar coat their opinions to not burn any bridges with a specific writer or producer… I absolutely love McKays character and he makes a lot of valid points but just has to be “diplomatic”. I guess I would have to do the same thing.

the problem is that there are so many different shows trying to compete for specific time slots and those all important ratings and sadly so many good shows over the years have been canceled and left unfinished because of this.
i mean come on if you are going to tell a story you are obligated to finish it in my opinion.
also people want to watch shows when they want to watch it and not have to be forced to choose what to watch that will please everyone in the family as im sure many of you know all to well lol.
so question is, is why have tv networks not embraced the future and change they way they bring tv to us just about everyone has access to the internet whether it be computer console or cable etc and most as it has been said before download their favorite shows via torrent or whatever which obviously not only affects ratings but ultimately harms the show in the long run, yes its true we all like to get something for nothing, but if say it only cost a dollar/euro per view/download of a show i wanted to watch then i would pay, and the more people that did the same the better it would be for both the shows network and the fans of whatever the show may be, for example say if even 20million people around the world payed 1 dollar/euro for an episode thats 20million just for 1 episode good for the network and show and cheap for the viewer as for advertisers they can do the same as what they are doing on sites like youtube a few seconds of ad b4 the show starts playing everyone wins and piracy will also seem pointless as it would be so cheap to watch what what you want to watch when you want to watch it while showing support for your favorite shows. surely something like this could be worked out
question is how can we all make this reality and how many of you would agree?
thanx for reading :)

I agree with both what David said and what Pecisk said. At the same time, I think that the “SGU killed SGA crowd” puts SGA on too high of a pedestal. Was it a good, fun show? Yes, but it wasn’t God’s gift to sci-fi, the way they try to paint it.

David’s right though in that SGU is aimed at a different audience and the problem is its the third series in a franchise that’s traditionally had a more family oriented focus. Nothing is wrong with a different focus but I think they went into it too hard and in this day in and with a “succeed or die” mentality you can’t play with your numbers like that, Fringe and Chuck are the exception and I’m disappointed that SyFy didn’t decide to make SGU its Fringe or Chuck – both shows have gotten SGU-like ratings (for a big network) but they still have the support of their respective networks (NBC and FOX).

The more I think about it, the more I think ratings had nothing to do with it at all. SGU (and Caprica before it) were conceived before SyFy decided it was going to head in this “brillian” new direction – whatever direction it is they’re heading in. Its taken a couple years but if you look at the shows that SyFy has airing next year its clear they’ve decided what their direction is – Eureka, Warehouse 13, Being Human, Sanctuary, etc. SGU is nothing like any of the shows that SyFy is airing, which are more family oriented in nature and more lighthearted. Unless SGU was like the top-rated show on SyFy I think it would have been canceled no matter what, I don’t think ratings had anything to do with it. Just look at how they’ve thrown Stargate fans under the buss since the announcement and have given us no reassurance at all. Had SGU been more light hearted like SGA or SG-1 then I think it would have had a chance.

That being said, what’s done is done and we can’t go back and undo it. There’s a possibility we might get a conclusion but aside from that and MAYBE one or two SGA or SG-1 movies, Stargate’s presence as a TV franchise is over for the time being.

David Hewlett is of course right in what he says. The old audience didn’t grow up as the writers expected, and so they could not follow SGU. I think the biggest mistake the producers made was to pitch SGU to SyFy, instead of the parent TV channel, NBC. I’m pretty sure that on a major network, and with the right ad campaign, SGU would have made it.

Seizure was an awesome episode filled with both great emotional moments and the return of McKay. SGU has really start to hit its stride in season 2, but alas it’s too little too late.

The direction that SyFy has grow as a network, the old SG-1 and/or SGA is a much better fit than SGU or even BSG.

I would agree with what David Hewlett said about why SGU was cancelled. SGU was a essentially a complete opposite of SGA and SG1, which seemed to irk a good share of Stargate viewers. But its biggest obstacle was that the majority of season 1 was just Ok. Magnified by people pissed about the change from Stargate to SGU; the Ok programming was characterized as terrible and dropped by a lot of viewers. If season 1 had been made like season 2 the show probably would be going on to a 3rd season.

Dark Scifi for whatever reason that is too far out there seems to not pick long lasting audiences. The previously mentioned Fringe is a great example where the show started out with very good numbers. But once Fringe got into alternate universes that audience saw a good cut.

“[Atlantis was] the kind of science fiction that families sat down and watched together.”

You’re exactly right, David. Me and my whole family would make the time to come together every Friday night to watch. I’d even bake brownies or cake each time for the occasion, and we all had a great time. We barely made it through SGU’s first episode without changing the channel out of boredom, and the next Friday, no one showed up. Those halcyon days were over.

At least I had a plate of brownies all to myself.

“And I know Brad [Wright, executive producer] said he had a hard time trying to figure out how to bring McKay back, but I’m really glad he did. And it’s too bad that the show’s not going to continue.”

I know. I really would have loved to see the show go on for at least a few more seasons, if only to see more McKay. We’re talking about Atlantis, right?

This all just makes me miss Atlantis and McKay and the Team more. Would be nice if he were right and it does continue somehow, even in a combined movie.

@mythos
>”So what he said is more the opposite of what you said.”

Not necessarily. You forget that the writers bet on the fact that they expected the previous SG-1/A viewers, usually either kids, or young parents, to grow up and watch an adult show. After 10+ years of the same kind of show, they expected their audience to follow them into more serious venues. But their old audience didn’t, and the non-SG audience thought that SGU was “yet another stargate”, so they wanted nothing to do with it, so they never even tried it. Maybe Hewlett didn’t spell it, but ultimately that’s what happened.

Hewlett brought up an interesting point about family viewing. It’s not something that I had considered before, but it makes complete sense. I grew up watching Stargate with my family, but no one else in my family really stuck around for SGU. Whether it was the tone or the characters (or the writing of those characters) I don’t know. But something was definitely lost between series.

@ELQ – But it’s not really an adult show. What makes you say that it is? Because they’ve had sex scenes? There are 12 year old’s having sex. You don’t have to be an adult for that. And let’s see…one of them found out they had a kid and then promptly went back to having what would have to be unprotected sex by now because they could not possibly have brought enough condoms with them to last that long. But they kind of gloss over that, don’t they..wouldn’t the more adult thing be to deal with that issue? Seriously, how could Chloe not be pregnant by now?

SGU isn’t any more adult than it’s predecessors. It just tries to use simple, pandering ideas as a way to be ‘edgy’ because it’s a buzzword that people like these days. If you’re not phased by such things and can see through them, they weren’t even handled that well.

@mythos
“>But it’s not really an adult show. What makes you say that it is?”

SGU is way more adult than SG1/A. It’s explained in the comments above, and even in the interview itself. It’s by far the most realistic of the three series, and it tries to be a bit deeper. As for condoms, well, there are other ways to avoid pregnancy. Not as fool-proof, but there are.

>So where is the realism?

In the kind of episodes that the show started: lack of air, food, water, power. In the kind of relations among people who were not military, and so not trained for this. In the kind of science, that took Rush MONTHS to crack the master password of Destiny, or gain access to other systems — something that SG-1/A would have done in the last 10 minutes by McKay or Carter doing something impossible scientifically. That’s the kind of realism I’m after, and that’s what I got. I’m happy for how the show got structured.

I’m sorry, but SGU is not a show I would like my kids watch. Everyone felt comfortable and at ease watching SG-1 and SGA on no ‘Adultp situations occured. Case in point, using the stones to sleep with your wife in another man’s body….not children, even 12 years old appropriate. I tried to watch it, and it was not my cup of tea. No common enemy, and I wanted to shot them all in the head, and shove their bodies into space. The only character that tweeked my interest was Rush, but not enough to give it an hour of my life.

Seizure was a great McKay Woolsey fix for me, and enough to know I did the right thing on not watching any more of SGU.

I love BSG, until it went so dark it was to depressing to watch. I want to be entertained. If I want sex, betrayal, back stabbing, I hate you, no I hate you more, then I would’ve kept watching the soaps and shows like 90120 and the like. That is what I liked about SG-1 and SGA…it gave you a good mix of entertaiment….Outcast, The Shrine, Trinity, VEGAS, etc…..with SGU I wondered if this was really a vampire movie and someone forgot to write in the fanged ones….

I respect it was other’s cup runnith over of teas, but don’t tell me that I’m ‘not’ grown up enough….and that is from some of the comments. I think David was spot on.

@majorsal: Not at all. The trick with doing a write-up based on someone else’s interview is not to use up all the best material and render the original superfluous (especially when, in this case, the original was written by a friend of mine).

The combo movie idea is something that has been bandied about in a number of quarters, and not something that I think David has an inside track on just yet.

Well Claudia Black and Michael Shanks have new SG1 novels coming out soon. As stated on ClaudiaBlackOnline (The third series of Stargate audios are moving from the ‘narrated’ style of the first two series to full cast dramas.) Now that sounds like something good. http://bit.ly/gcqDj6

@ELQ

Hey, myself, I’m not one who really cares for TOO much “realism” in a sci-fi universe like our beloved “Stargate”… but, for your sake, let me take a look at few o’ your examples:

“In the kind of episodes that the show started: lack of air, food, water, power.” Three words why these important scenarios can sometimes fail in a show like SGU: Writing, writing, and writing. Writing about the *need* for those things is a lot different than writing about those same characters going about *getting* those things. If the writers already have made it difficult to believe in these characters (see below), then why would the viewers— both SG fans and the targeted casual/new audience— want to sit around and see how these poor souls acquire such items?

“In the kind of relations among people who were not military, and so not trained for this.” Say… WHAT?? Civilians of all stripes of life— scientists, engineers, doctors, office personnel– have been working alongside our uniformed people for as long as uniforms have been around on this planet. Oh, and by the way- in reference to your “realism” exercise here- those civilians would’ve been the best in their fields even to be assigned to an SGA program in the first place; and even if by some writing loophole that may have stated that these written characters were supposed to be the second-tier people at the time of the attack, then that would’ve clashed with the fact that, with a visiting senator, the first-tiers would’ve been the ones to have been there to greet him/her anyway— that is, in the *real* world… Again, write better *characters*.

“In the kind of science, that took Rush MONTHS to crack the master password of Destiny, or gain access to other systems — something that SG-1/A would have done in the last 10 minutes by McKay or Carter doing something impossible scientifically.” See? Who says that we can’t agree on something? Robert’s Dr. Rush is one character that was a breath of fresh air amongst a stable of poor-written (but not poorly *acted*) characters… and obviously, a lot of viewers rendered their verdicts on this subject with their remotes.

“That’s the kind of realism I’m after, and that’s what I got. I’m happy for how the show got structured.” Okay; I can’t change your mind on that one. But beware of what you ask for: Poorly-written “realism” can come back to bite the show that needs the eyeballs and the ad numbers. And in this case, the numbers did not lie…

Wow, he hit the nail on the head here –> “So obviously the people who want to sit down with their family, you know, they can’t do that with SGU.” <—This is exactly why I didn't watch it. ~(-: We have 3 generations in my house that LOVE and watch Stargate together as a family. We went to go see all the Star Wars movies as a family. Went to see the new Harry Potter as a family. Sci Fi fantasy + dark and edgy is a poor formula if you want a successful franchise. If you look at most hugely successful sci fi/fantasy shows, there is little to no sexual content and minimal gore.

Never seen a single episode of either SG1 or Atlantis. I agree with Hewlett, “it’s (SGU) a gorgeous show.”

>But seeming more realistic isn’t really the same as being more realistic.

It’s realistic ENOUGH. It’s different than the vanilla tv shows out there that are _laughable_ when comparing the same issues at hand and how these are portrayed. You claim that I didn’t explain why SGU feels more realistic, but I did. I even gave an example with McKay/Carter creating something scientifically impossible (e.g. by combining incompatible technologies), in the last 10 minutes of an episode, and they save the day. On SGU this is way more rare, and way more realistically done. The very fact that it took Rush/Chloe/ship/whatever to crack the code many months, to me this adds realism.

>you’re not really familiar with the current state of cryptography

I’m a developer. Unless you have quantum computers (we have no indication that this is what Destiny uses), any *strong* code (as this ship would naturally have) will take years to crack. It only took months because of the ship’s and Chloe’s help.

SGU failing had nothing to do with SGA, or the fact that it was different to the previous shows. SGU failed because it just didn’t appeal enough to ANY audience.

I wouldn’t have continued watching SGU even if SGA had continued to air – the reason is I didn’t like anything about SGU. I didn’t mind that it was different to the other shows, all I expected was it to be entertaining and interesting and it was neither for me.

I find it laughable that some accuse viewers of not being adult enough to understand SGU. If SGU was so gripping and adult why didn’t it appeal to a wider audience then, there is a huge audience out there who love dark and gripping.

It didn’t appeal to more viewers because it was a boring, slow paced show, full of incredibly unlikeable characters and the ratings reflected that. Viewers stopped watching in every country it aired in. That had nothing to do with it being different to the previous Stargate incarnations, or the fact that it was darker (supposedly) to previous shows. SGU just didn’t deliver.

Embarrassing as it is to admit, before watching SGU the only Stargate I’d seen was the 1994 movie. I was asked to review the first season of SGU as an outsider; someone who wouldn’t be influenced by a love of the previous series. In the end, the only nice thing I had to say about SGU was that it got me watching SG-1 and SGA because there had to be a reason that the franchise lasted so long and I wasn’t seeing it in SGU. SGU doesn’t have a single character that I like, no one to connect with on any level and, therefore, there isn’t any reason for me to care about what happened to any them. In the first season the only character I liked was Daniel – and the only knowledge I had of him at the time was from the movie! Crossing over characters is fun and gives us a chance to spend time with them again, but it also exposes just how unlikeable SGU’s regular characters are.

Torrent downloads and DVRs… that means nothing to the network and there’s a reason for that. Nielson ratings = advertisement revenue = money to keep the show on air. Do I think the Nielson ratings system is outdated? Of course. But that’s the way it works right now, so until it gets updated (if it ever does) fans need to accept that watching a show live is what keeps the show on air.

@ELQ – But you never said gave any indication of why you feel it’s more ‘grown up’. As for being ‘more realistic’, it’s relative to the story. Carter routinely worked alongside very advanced alien races. McKay had access to the vast information available in Atlantis. People think advancement comes in the form of hard, long work, but it really doesn’t. It’s a series of ‘eureka’ moments. The last 30 years of technological advancements outweighs the combined efforts of the rest of history. And it’s only speeding up, not slowing down. Every time something new is thought up, realized or discovered, it creates a cascade of related ideas. Since the shows obviously exist within a universe that’s different from ours (we don’t have a stargate), Carter and McKay were realistic within their universe.

As for being a developer…no offense, but so? I’m assuming by developer you mean in terms of programming, but I know dozens of developers that know nothing about cryptography. They can learn and use the syntax of a cryptographic function, but that’s far different. A few days back, the FBI released an encoded document related to a suspicious death case from 20 years ago that they’ve been unable to crack. Within 2 days they were not only overwhelmed with responses but were amazed by how promising some of the results were. FBI – 20 years, a bunch of very smart people – 24 hours. This is real, in our world, right now. There are people right now working on technologies that could crack 1024 bit ssl certificate transactions in a few days..something that was once thought to take hundreds of years. So again, just because you and I (I’m including myself in this as while I’m interested in it I’m by no means an expert at it) can’t do it, that doesn’t make it unrealistic.

As for the ‘english speaking aliens’ issue, this was loosely covered by the show. The reality is that dealing with languages just costs too much. You either have to resolve it technologically (think universal translator on star trek) or socially (humans were transplanted from other worlds where english was spoken). Until a scifi show gets ratings like NCIS, this is pretty much the way it has to be otherwise too much time and money would be spent dealing with the issue. I’d love to see completely foreign intelligent lifeforms too. But I also know people in the industry and know how cost prohibitive it is.

Simply put, I enjoy all Stargate. I don’t care if its family, adult or XXX oriented. Well maybe not the last one…I think!?
What ever happened to giving a show at least 3 seasons to measure level of success. I know I know, Firefly. But that was on Fox and they cancel most sci-fi shows after one season anyway, thats their thing.
But I digress.
Its late here again and I must sleep.

@mythos — I was thinking the same thing. Carter and McKay solving problems in the last ten minutes seems perfectly realistic to me. They are geniuses. Geniuses always do stuff like that.

But I can see how if, in reality, one has never met or seen a real genius in action then maybe it’s hard to suspend their disbelief.

One of the many things that I didn’t like about SGU (one straw on the camels back) was how nearly every character, except perhaps for Eli, had the hesitant speech impediment. Like they were triple thinking every word they spoke before it came out. Or the grunting sentence as it might be called. When you have one person doing that on occasion it is interesting, but when nearly every character acts that way it just seems stupid. And of course I could name half a dozen other small problems that just worked together to make the show a chore to watch instead of a highlight of the week.

@ictus75 — I’m not sure I would agree that SG1 or SGA would be canceled if premiering now days. Caprica has the same issue as SGU in that the stories were really dull. And therefore the audience numbers wasn’t maintained. I don’t think it was related to the direction of the SyFy network. However, I agree that SyFy does put to much effort into wrestling and reality shows. That annoys me.

I commented in another thread a few months ago that if SGU had been created as a unique show instead of 3rd in the Stargate franchise it probably would have come closer to succeding. However it does look a little to much like the producers fell in love with BSG and dropped everything to try their hand at BSG in more ways that one. Even going so far as adopting FTL terminology instead of Hyperspace. I mean that’s just stupid.

My problem with SGU was that it took way too long for them to work through the internal conflicts and become a team working together. I grew tired of the main question every week being who was going to literally or figuratively stab each other in the back. This season they did start to resolve those issues and become a team, but it was too late. If they had cancelled the show at the end of season 1 it wouldn’t have bothered me, but now I’m disappointed.

@cheyenne67:

Adults (both sci-fi *and* non-sci-fi fans) all stayed away from SGU. The ratings back this up; non-SG viewers have expressed this; and some of us long-in-the-tooth SG fans have told you why it wasn’t as well-crafted as it should’ve been– once again, proving that the metered eyeball numbers were indeed correct after all.

Our children can often have problems with accepting life’s more harsher truths. Methinks you need to re-evaluate the real truth behind SGU’s demise, or you may wind up not thinking like the “grown-up” you’re professing to be here…