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The heroes of the Stargate universe have done some “damned distasteful things” over the years, often walking the moral line … and sometimes crossing it. In Stargate Universe, however, the writers’ goal was to avoid the heroic archetypes and create characters who are all varying shades of grey. But can we as viewers still love these characters and engage in their stories? We can relate to their imperfections … but can we look up to them?
In this week’s episode of the podcast GateWorld’s Darren and David talk about the “anti-heroes” of SGU, and the capacity of such true-to-life characters for real heroism. If you haven’t seen the show yet, beware of spoilers through the end of “Justice,” the mid-season finale that aired in December. There are only two week remaining until new episodes return!
SHOW NOTES
Stargate News
- Robert Knepper cast on Stargate Universe
Vala Mal Doran comic book due in May
Sky1 to premiere new SGU episodes April 13
Hewlett stars in Syfy’s Morlocks
Catching up with Paul McGillion
Discussion – SGU‘s Anti-Heroes
- Related Episodes:
“Red Sky” (SG-1 Season Five)
“Window of Opportunity” (SG-1 Season Four)
“Cor’ai” (SG-1 Season One)
“Air, Part 3” (Universe Season One)
“Justice” (SG-1 Season One)
“Water” (Universe Season One)
“Earth” (Universe Season One)
“Light” (Universe Season One)
“Darkness” (Universe Season One)
“Life” (Universe Season One)
“Chain Reaction” (SG-1 Season Four)
“48 Hours” (SG-1 Season Five)
“Air, Part 1” (Universe Season One)
| This Week’s Listener Question: What is your favorite episode from Atlantis Season Four, and why do you love it? |
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Next Episode: Atlantis Season Four. Call in now and get your opinion on the podcast!
“But can we as viewers still love these characters and engage in their stories?” -> No
“We can relate to their imperfections” -> No
“can we look up to them?” -> No
How can you love characters with no redeeming qualities who are selfish and self absorbed. They don’t need to be heroes to be likeable, they just need to be decent human beings who are interested in something more than their own petty issues.
Oh, thanks – podcast is here. I’ve been checking in often! I’ll enjoy this.
Agree with psw – I’m more into heroes than anti-heroes (though if someone is really good looking (oops being a bit shallow here), or have some redeeming factors I could like them a little. In SGU so far… Eli and that Lady “doctor” are the only ones that I find like able, so far…
I do love Robert Carlyle but would have loved him to be a O’Neill kind of hero, but his way
Okay just going to pass along a few comments made on twitter about the following podcast:
“SGU does NOT have “Anti-heroes” It’s layered, it’s a tapestry with a weave! Snip one thread -it changes!”
“I think SGU works well because it doesn’t have the clean-cut heroes and villains.”
“I agree and that’s what the show is all about. Cannot believe @GateWorld Staff can’t see that. They really missed the point”
I don’t usually agree with you guys, but IMO this podcast is very balanced and well-done, and I think you’ve fairly represented the risk of SGU in terms of whether fans can accept very flawed characters week after week. Being able to root for them, wondering if they’ll be redeemed, it’s all relevant to discuss. A character can be flawed and still NOT compelling, or evocative of loyalty. That’s the issue for SGU for many of the characters. How can anyone (Brian’s mommy or others) say you miss the point? It’s just your interpretation, and it’s clearly based on lots… Read more »
I can sure relate to comments made on Sons of Anarchy & shows of its ilk, as I just can’t get into series where the main character is just a tad-bit better than the bad guy. Dexter. Yech, sorry. SGU has characters who are a bit too flawed. They need to give something to the viewing audience that makes you go ‘I can relate’. Perhaps Eli and CHloe are the closest one can relate to, but Chloe gets to do basically zip except have sex. As was pointed out in another’s comments, the characters aren’t compelling yet. SG1 and SGA… Read more »
@ Tanith I wonder why you decided to only post well worded twitter messages. Brian Jacob Smith’s mother also wrote in response to this podcast: “Because sites like Gateworld keep stirring sh*t.” “yeah, I wonder what the cast/crew of SGU will think about the site while they keep trashing them?” “they are causing trouble, for some strange reason.” “I don’t go anymore, but I saw the tweet about the podcast and thought since it’s the site owners should be fine. NOT!” “dumb ass people” Just to put your quoted twitter messages into perspective. I really don’t understand what made her… Read more »
The world is full of anti-heroes taking it to the Nth degree misses the whole point of why Stargate has been successful for a decade plus. The show put our best foot forward and said yeah were not there yet but we can work hard and get there.Anti-Heroes isn’t bold new territory it is a joke and a smear on the franchises own legacy.
I want to watch people who try to do the right thing, even if it doesn’t turn out that way in the end. Watching people struggle to make the best choices and failing is so much more my thing than watching characters whose only goals are selfish and self-serving. One or two of those types might be OK, but everyone? Not my cup of chai tea.
“But can we as viewers still love these characters and engage in their stories?” -> Yes “We can relate to their imperfections” -> Yes “can we look up to them?” -> Yes (some) That 1st lady didn’t even know the names of the characters. I actually do relate a bit to Rush. I relate to all of them except maybe Cloe, but I don’t dislike her. Sons of Anarchy are not drug dealers, they are *specifically* not drug dealers. They *attack* drug dealers. That’s a redeemable quality. Jax and the some others do have redeemable qualities individually too. I actually… Read more »
The characters are unlovable, they are mildly likable and at most times annoying.
Can we look up to them? Maybe later. I dont know. Right now they do not inspire anything in me.
Can we relate? Maybe. I can relate so certain TRAITS of characters, not a complete character. I can relate to Rushs cynicism, Youngs hardass attitude, Elis naivety. But i cant relate to Eli, or Rush or Young as whole characters.
Everyone has more negative qualities than redeeming ones.
Its like you have a whole ship of Baltar clones.
So you can only relate to perfect characters? Perfect is unrelatable, inspirational yes, relatable no.
DUDE!
would you PLEASE get off the idea that i want perfect characters.
I dont know what you think a “perfect character” is, but i think you are confusing Hero and Mary Sue.
You don’t want perfect characters or flawed characters from the sound of it. What’s left?
I cannot relate to these people because they lie, rape, and murder and see nothing wrong with their actions. Even tptb see nothing wrong. They think Young is a hero. Do they even watch the show?
Flawed characters can be heroes if they recognize their flaws and try to do better but they are villains if they embrace their flaws and use them to their advantage. Young and Rush are villains and deserve no admiration for their selfish actions.
You only know extremes dont you?
There cant possibly be anything in between. EVER
Wow, I just got back from reading some of the twitter responses to your podcast and some people are incredibly defensive about this show. I truly thought you came across as fans of the show who were asking some thoughtful questions about the nature of the characters. But they took your show as a slam against SGU for even asking questions?!
I guess they are very sensitive due to the amount of dislike SGU has engendered but to criticise you two who DO like it was very strange to read.
Extremes, no. There’s perfect and there’s flawed. Perfect is perfect and flawed is everything else.
I agree, Sylvia — it feels a bit surreal. I don’t know how wanting to talk for an hour about the show, its characters, and how viewers might perceive them equals slamming SGU. Anyone who listens to the show should recognize that we are fans of SGU.
If this particular podcast had been critical of the show, I would understand the backlash from its most ardent supporters. This feels like someone coming to GateWorld, looking around at all the time and effort we’ve put into content over ten years, and concluding, “Boy, you guys sure don’t like Stargate, do you?”
I don’t think there’s a single true hero in any of the Stargates. Jack shut the iris on Odo (sorry, can’t recall character’s name), Daniel shot a container full of Gou’ald larva, Sam… um, well, she’s as close to perfect as there might be, except for that Black Widow curse ;) McKay blew up 5/6th of a solar system, Sheppard gunned down a Wraith in a holding cell… no, we don’t have any shining white examples of heroes, but otherwise, the characters in SG1/SGA for the most part, did think of the collective more than of themselves. SGU is more… Read more »
@Darren, I don’t think the people complaining even listened to the podcast. They objected to the questions you posed, as if even asking them is disloyal to the “perfect beauty” of SGU. I know the production has a lot riding on SGU as the continuation of the franchise, but long-time, heavily involved fans like you have a big stake in it, too. All those thousands of hours creating and running websites, thousands of dollars spent on DVDs, conventions and merchandise… the emotional investment in the shows. So the “ardent supporters” would do well to understand fans have something to lose,… Read more »
I listened to the podcast and thought it was done very well. I never felt it was attacking SGU and instead I thought it was a nice debate on the types of characters portrayed in SGU. I think many people are just getting hung up on the title “anti-hero”. As for the debate on the characters and how they are portrayed I tend to side with those who find the characters uninteresting, unlikable and in general lacking redeemable qualities. I do not fault the actors for this as I think they are doing the best they can with what I… Read more »
I don’t think the flaws are that excessive. I’d love to see this magical training that turns you into a hero as well.
Scott is staying stoic, doing his job oh I forgot he slept with Chloe..the very thought!
Young is doing his best , he’s taking **** from all sides and dealing with it best he can.
Ego’s are clashing and that is real life! It happens every day.
Stunner, I am assuming your response was to my post, so let me clarify a couple of things. No where in my post did I say training made you a hero. What I stated is that these people supposedly went through the same training as the other Stargate teams did, but this crew seems to lack the professionalism (a term I actually did use) that we expect from the military people associated with the SGC. I think back to an episode in SG1 that focused on three new recruits to the Stargate program and the hard training they were put… Read more »
It wasn’t directed at you.
The thing is if it was SG1 O’Neill would shout and say something and everyone would fall in line, but that wouldn’t really happen with civili
@Stunner
are you yaspaa in disguise?
It wasn’t directed at you.
The thing is if it was SG1, O’Neill would shout and everyone would fall in line, but that wouldn’t happen in real life, not with civilians on board. Young is injured and being attacked on all sides, which including Rush setting him up for murder pushed him over the edge. SG1 and SGA both, always built up to a happy ending which isn’t going to happen with this show. I love what SG1 brought to the table, but that was a 20th century show , SGU isn’t.
no stunner it would happen with civilians on board b/c they’re military scientists, therefore they fall under military command. They were on the base and they are on the ship and they all understand that.
No J.O., I think he’s Emily.
@Mentat
maybe he is the true identity of Hong Kong Fuey?
Yes I am. I also know where you lot are from. ;) I think Emily is overmindone.
There are more than military scientists on board, Wray for one.
Very good posts jjs. If I’m not interested in the characters then I have no interest in what happens to them. As I said they don’t even have to be heros to be likeable and this is where I think Brad Wright and co and have gotten it all wrong. They keep going on about not wanting flawed characters, as others have said all the previous characters were flawed in some shape or form but they acted for the greater good and put others needs before theirs. The SGU characters have no qualities I could admire or look up. They… Read more »
“but Chloe gets to do basically zip except have sex.”
I can’t believe that people are still saying that after “Justice”.
@angel. What a load of nonsense SG1/SGA didn’t have flawed characters, what have you been watching? Being a nice person isn’t a job requirement.
You don’t like it don’t watch it. How many times does that have to be said.
@Stunner
you departed from our last conversation without explaining how chloe could visit her loved ones by using the kinos. care to clarify what you meant by that?
Pick on the minor points, I obviously didn’t mean that.
I found the so called “shallow” (as defined by SGU producers themselves) heroes of SG-1 to much more inspirational and lovable, and they are the ones that made me love the show.
Picking pathetic characters as heroes is a characteristic of a reality show (e.g. big brother etc).
Also, SGU is so obsessively keen on copycatting BSG, but on BSG there were in fact a lot of admirable characters!
jjs wrote:
I find the characters and their constant internal turmoil too unbelievable
^^ Exactly, the real science fiction in SGU is the human interactions!
More exaggeration, really.
@Stunner
what did you mean then? as i thought that she was going to get eli to fly a kino to the shuttle where her dead dad was so that she could see him preserved by the vacuum of space for eternity
I don’t think shooter should have died anyway.
@Stunner
any chance that you will be revisiting the forum where you deleted all of your posts?
Please stay on topic, folks. Personal issues don’t belong on news discussion threads.
Missed the boat.
Other than Ely and maybe Rush, there’s not a SINGLE character I have the slightest interest in.
I can’t even name most of the SGU characters. They are not just flawed, they are uninvolving.
As a fan with all the SG1 and Atlantis DVD’s, this should be a cause for concern for the creatives running SGU.
Kudos for what I believe to have been the most thought provoking and objective podcast you guys have ever done. That said, I was surprised you didn’t mention the SG-1 episode “The Other Side” (Jack slamming the iris shut) or “Abyss” (Jack beating the Jaffa mercilessly) as examples of grey. That said, you both pointed to the most important aspect of a television series – the need for compelling characters. That’s what brings us back week to week. We need to connect to these characters in order to follow them on their journey. And yes, I too find Col Young… Read more »
@prion
Carter gained the trust of Fifth, the human replicator, only to trap him in the time vortex after he helped them escape. There you go, Carter’s flawed too :)
Hi. I don´t think they have no redeeming qualities…..We don´t know enough of these characters. It´s been just 10 episodes! I like Lt. Scott and Col Young seems a fine officer too. It´s not what they expected and yes, sex is a stupid idea while working and yes, it´s not a good idea to leave you best scientist in a planet. You are dooming yourself and the ones by your command. As jjs mentioned wisely….military personnel at least in Icarus should have been veteran SGC members. They didn´t expect to be in Destiny, but they knew they were offworld. The… Read more »