MGM’s new leadership simply isn’t interested in continuing the Stargate television franchise right now, according to actress Alaina Huffman.
“They tried very hard to put a movie together,” Huffman said in a stage appearance at the Wizard World Comic Con in Philadelphia last month. “[But] Spyglass is not interested in Stargate, so therefore would not fund the movie. So we — we, as in Brad [Wright] — had to look for money elsewhere, and came very close several times.”
The historic Hollywood studio emerged from bankruptcy proceedings at the end of 2010 with Spyglass Entertainment chiefs Gary Barber and Roger Birnbaum appointed as Co-Chairmen and CEOs. Formed in 1998, Spyglass itself is primarily a film studio, helping get movies like The Sixth Sense, Star Trek (2009), and The Tourist to screens.
In years’ past Stargate was a juggernaut for MGM’s television division, pulling in significant revenue from syndication, overseas markets (airing in over 120 countries), and the lucrative DVD market. Studio executives called it MGM’s most important franchise after James Bond. But those revenue sources just aren’t what they used to be.
Since emerging from bankruptcy MGM is back on its feet with a full slate of upcoming movie releases. It also continues to work in the television field, producing MTV’s new Teen Wolf series. But the studio has not made any official, public statements about the future of Stargate since the new execs took over.
The studio appointed Roma Khanna as its new President of Television Group and Digital last month. Khanna oversees all television sales, production, acquisitions, licensing, content creation and digital initiatives for MGM, as well as existing franchises like Stargate.
According to Huffman, the pitch that executive producer Brad Wright was making to the studio in early 2011 was for a pair of films.
“His plan, from what I understood … was he wanted to do two movies, one to finish out our storyline, and one [with] an all-star cast they that they would shoot in Hawaii. I don’t know why they couldn’t get the funding. I thought that would have been a really great way to close out the series.
“To me, it’s really unfortunate that the franchise and the producers didn’t get the opportunity, given their long track record, to finish out the story.”
Watch the video clip from Huffman’s convention appearance (with SGU co-star Julia Benson) below. The two will appear together again at Wizard World’s Chicago event, August 11-14.
(Thanks to Tyler for the tip!)
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Darren created GateWorld in 1999, and today is the owner and managing editor. He lives in Scotland with his wife and two children. (More)
It is a sad day to see that Spyglass has no intention of continuing the second most important franchise it owns (next to James Bond). You would think Spyglass would give more respect to the long track record that Brad Wright has with Stargate.
It’s interesting to keep reading and hearing about more of these behind-the-scenes deals that are/were being negotiated.
I really wonder if SyFy isn’t/wasn’t incredibly leary about MGM/Spyglass’s future and thus the decision to push them aside by moving Stargate into position for cancellation so that they could claim it was MGM/Stargate’s fault. “All our other shows are doing just fine!” Meanwhile, Spyglass not giving any favors to the Stargate franchise is probably why the franchise isn’t getting picked up elsewhere.
I think what bothers me the most is that we have a 17 season long sci-fi epic that, though it ended prematurely, really only needed these last two films to close the book. If the show airs in 120 countries, it doesn’t seem like a modestly budgeted film would have lost money.
As much as I miss Stargate, closure would’ve at least made the ending of the series acceptable. Instead, we’ve got hanging threads that may never get an ending.
@Cheshil whats worse is that there are hanging threads for 2 different series. Universe: will they ever make it home? will they ever complete the mission?
Atlantis: will Ronon and Teyla ever make it back home to their people in Pegasus galaxy? What happened to Todd?
And even in SG-1 there are a couple big questions I have: will the Stargate ever go public? Do we really have a moon base now?
What will it take to show them that we want this? EVERY Stargate fan I see is asking about future movies/television projects, will there be continuations of SG-1/SGA/SGU, etc. etc. I believe that MGM/Spyglass are missing out on a big financial opportunity with it, come on! Give us two last movies! You promised us two movies two years ago anyway and you didn’t deliver and you know what? ITS YOUR OWN DUMB FAULT! That’s right! Its not our fault, its YOUR fault for stupid financial decisions that placed YOU in bankruptcy and as a result you’re punishing US? I keep on thinking back to Star Trek. With Star Trek there was somewhat of a sense of satisfaction because each series (except TOS of course which really didn’t need one) had a finale and had closure. SGU and SGA had finales, but they weren’t searies finales as much as they were season finales. Instead you throw money at a useless series called VIKINGS which will fail just like Camelot has failed on Showtime because nobody will watch it, why not throw that same money at a few Stargate movies to conclude the franchise and finally put it to rest? You’re even releasing Atlantis on blu ray! If you didn’t think Stargate was still profitable you wouldn’t be releasing it on blu ray!
When Star Trek ended its TV run, there were 5 seasons and well over 400 episodes between the five seasons. People were sick of it. Stargate is nowhere NEAR reaching that limit. People still want more. Everybody I know who is a Stargate fan, on the Internet, etc. says when will we get more? Even on Star Trek sites people want more Stargate!
I have no problem with Dean Devlin going back and finishing his trilogy, in fact, I’m interested to see what he would have done differently. HOWEVER, before you do that why not give closure to the TV franchise so fans are ready to move on?
I can see why Spyglass might be leary about working with Brad and Co. again, he promised the moon and didn’t deliver. However, I see no reason why they couldn’t assign the franchise to someone else they trust to breath new life into Stargate. They must be very bitter about how things turned out to want nothing to do with the entire franchise. And good point by someone above, they are releasing a Blu-Ray of Atlantis, so they must feel someone wants to see a bit of Stargate.
i know its a little off topic but i tend to think of it like this if say 400 people go to watch a movie in a cinema and say about halfway thru about 200 walk out how would the remaining 200 people feel if suddenly the lights came on,the movie stopped and then asked to leave by staff? if it was you would you ever go back to that cinema again? if it were me of course not so why do networks continue to do just that to us canceling good shows before they get a chance to finish? maybe its time for networks to change and get with the times alot of people dont watch live tv they watch it later after they have recorded it or on portable devices etc so the old ratings system is both unfair and inaccurate and why cancel a entire franchise based on the ratings of 1 show in 1 country? doesnt sound like good business sense 2 me lol i have seen loads and loads of comments and reasons why people think it got canceled etc some say they liked it they way it was and others were more than happy to bash the program with their dislikes about it at the end of the day a story was being told and its only polite and fair to let be told from start to finish those that like it enjoy it those that hate it plz just go to sleep or something and not seek out forums to vent your hate i mean why even bother if i dont like a program i just dont watch it lol i hope that someone will pick up stargate and continue the story it doesnt even have to be a major studio there are alot of independent talented wealthy people out there that could join forces and save stargate if networks wont show it then do it as webisodes or something anyway im sure there are a few options that could help save stargate we can either keep going around and around in circles saying the same things over and over again or actually try and do something about it thanx for reading :)
What’s most amazing to me is how on earth can it be that they are not willing,interested in making at least one stargate movie,if not two,just one to finish the SGU story,considering the fact that it is the second most lucrative,second strongest franchise after James Bond!?
That is so completely puzzling,it seems as if something was so wrong with that picture.
How is that possible,I will never understand,it could be properly done with $10 million budget at the most.And no one can tell me that they wouldn’t turn a considerable profit with that kind of money invested.I’m absolutely positive that at least 2 mil ppl worldwide would buy that dvd/blue-ray,which means some $40-50 mill.in revenue..at least $35 mill.pure profit.I believe that much at least would be guaranteed,probably more when renting dvds is included.And we’re talking USA,Canada,Europe,Australia,Japan,Russia and few South American countries.
This is disappointing news but I could see why continuing the franchise would give spyglass some pause. Ostensibly SGU was a reboot of the franchise and it ultimately flopped. Whatever the reasons continuing on that avenue would evidently be too big a financial risk. The original movie at the time it came out in 1994 was considered a big budgeted flop hence why it never got the sequel its producers wanted in last 17 years. Then the SG1 and SGA stories apparently fizzled out in the minds of SyFy, MGM, and the producers that got bored producing the two shows. The show now suffers from what Star Trek was after Enterprise where the series had absolutely no feasible or obvious place to go from there until JJ Abrams came along. Stargate could make money but Spyglass probably believes that at the moment they don’t have anyone to make Stargate work anymore. Going forward the questions will be who and where is Stargate’s JJ Abrams.
@Zach236 Whil I kind of agree with you, the problem is, SG1 still has stories to tell (with Amanda Tapping, Chris Judge, Michael Shanks, RDA, etc), Atlantis still has plenty of stories to tell with (Joe Flannigan, David Hewlett, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Paul McGillion, Jewel Staite, and Robert Picardo). And at we at least need to get the Destiny crew home (after finding whats out there) and the story needs to be told by (Alaina Huffman, Robert Carlyle, David Blue, Brian J Smith, Louis Ferrera, Lou Diamond Philips, Eleyse Levesqu (spelling), Ming Na, etc).
My point is, while a reboot can and should happen in the future, we need to finish the stories we have now, and with the same actors (who I’m pretty sure would all do it). Can you really imagine watching Stargate Atlantis without Col Sheppard and Dr McKay?
I don’t know when MGM went bankrupt but if it was after 2007 when SG1 got cancelled then it makes sense! You don’t cancel your best TV franchise & expect to stay in business! I think Spyglass should @ least do the SG1 & SGA movies because they know they will make money off them. I would be leery of making an SGU movie too since the series wasn’t anywhere near as good as the other two series. I think they should have made SGU into one or two TV movies before making the series to find out how the Stargate fans would do with a spin-off that’s completely different from the other two series & closer to a BSG spin-off/rip-off.
Teen Wolf? Seriously? It was good as a movie, owing mostly to Michael J. Fox’s nerdy charisma. But everyone forgot they made a sequel, for good reason. Ah, well, at least they’re not making TV shows about wrestling.
SGU never should have been made. I would have produced a SGA movie & another SG-1 movie at least once every other year to ride out the ecomony but keep the Stargate existence going. Now SG has it’s “Voyager” and/or “Enterprise” failed BSG ripoff series under it’s belt. Teen Wolf, what a waste.
Look, I love the show(s) as much as anyone, but let’s be real. SG-1 ran its course. The thing that killed it was everyone thinking that season 7 was the last. It would have been a good ending, too. But it got picked up for season 8 and that was a surprise. The threw it together as best they could, but since no one was expecting it the episodes were sub-par at best. It picked up in season 9 and 10, but season 8 was so bad that only the most die-hard of fans were left after that.
Atlantis went away prematurely. I think the its death was the result of Torri Higgonson leaving the show. She was awesome. My guess is it was not her idea but that doesn’t matter at this point. She left and that vital role was lost after that. They brought Amanda Tapping in and that should have been great but her character was completely wasted. Woolsey turned out to be okay, but by then the damage was done.
SGU started out with strikes against it and never helped its own cause. It was a good show with a good premise. However, the producers (or whoever) decided to capitalize on the Battlestar Galactica craze and go for the dark, gritty, shaky-cam pseudo reality sci-fi style. Although that isn’t what Stargate is all about they ALMOST pulled it off. The only flaw was that the show ended up being boring. SG-1 and Atlantis managed to develop characters while still being somewhat light-hearted and action oriented. SGU followed a cycle that could never have hoped to keep a similar audience. The season premier was really good, but then it got boring and didn’t pick up again until the season finale. The second season followed the same pattern. The show had a lot of potential, but just couldn’t hold interest. Any sci-fi show has to maintain a good balance between action and story/character development to be successful and SGU never achieved that balance. It looked as if it was going to do it toward the end of season two, but by then it was too late.
The point is, the franchise had run its course and there wasn’t much left to do. Everyone wants to see RDA and crew back in action, but you have to consider the actors feelings and RDA wasn’t interested in doing it full time anymore. Who can blame him? he isn’t the same guy he was 20 years ago!
Are there still plenty of stories to be told in the Stargate universe? Of course there are. But it would have taken new producers/writers to make it happen. No one can expect the same people to keep coming up with new ideas within the same universe for that long. It just isn’t possible. As much as they love the show, it was constraining them and they were constraining it. That’s the way storytelling goes, and in the television biz these days if a show isn’t a hit right away it isn’t going to stick around. Especially on a cable network like SyFy. I doubt it can afford it.
@Jim:
“And no one can tell me that they wouldn’t turn a considerable profit with that kind of money invested.I’m absolutely positive that at least 2 mil ppl worldwide would buy that dvd/blue-ray,which means some $40-50 mill.in revenue..at least $35 mill.pure profit.”
Here on GW, on the forum, it was discussed the DVD sales for SGU. They sold something like 23 000.
MGM/Spyglass didn’t say no to Stargate as much as they said no to Brad Wright. Think about it. He took the most successful Science Fiction franchise in U.S. TV history and ran it into the ground with his failed Universe experiment. And he disrespected the previous two Stargate series and the fans in the process. Brad Wright is the Rick Berman of Stargate. Would you invest in his leadership.
When we do get Stargate again, and we will get it eventually, it will be under new leadership. Are you listening, J.J. Abrams?
@orfeu But,see that is something completely different.Those SGU DVDs sold were of the show that had already aired.And they have only been released for so long,so they are still being sold.
I’m talking about completely new DVD/Blue-Ray of a story’s closure that would have not been shown anywhere previously.
What you’re saying would be like comparing the sales of The Arc of Truth and Stargate Continuum direct to DVD with the sales of SG-1 and Atlantis seasons on DVD.When those two categories cannot be compared.Those two straight to DVD movies had sold in at least ten time larger numbers than already aired seasons..in the US only.Not to mention the rest of the world.Also I know for a fact that in some countries it is very hard.if not impossible to buy seasonal dvds,while you can find movies.
I’ve read aproximations that there is some 6-8 mill.stargate fans around the world.If only one third,or even quarter of them buys the movie,which ever one is hypothetically made and I’m sure that many would buy it,a profit is there.
And I absolutely agree with everyone who said;it doesn’t even have to be a series of movies,like Star Trek,but just the closure of those few already existing stories.
Business is all about the numbers. Just like major movies that rake in hundreds of millions of dollars play with the numbers to make it seem like they lost money to avoid paying extra royalties, television gets the same kind of ‘creative accounting’. It comes down to the fact that they could make the bottom line look better by cutting the show rater than by supporting it. It’s unclear if the show was actually making money or losing money, but even if it were making money, it wouldn’t have been making enough to get the attention it needed. Fans may want to see the same shows over and over, but investors want ‘new and fresh’. And because of it’s extensive run, even with a new direction like SGU, it’s still bound so much to the original idea that it couldn’t really be ‘new and fresh’.
This could ultimately be for the best, though. If MGM, under it’s new overlords, doesn’t hold much interest in doing anything with the property, they may sell it to someone who does. With the right people in control, it could definitely live and grow again. It would be bittersweet because it would probably mean there would be no hope for closure to any of the remaining threads from the current franchise, but it would at least mean more hope for the future. For now, as long as the syndication checks stay strong, that’s all the studio is likely interested in.
First off I wanted to say I called it when Devlin commented on wanting to do the sequels to the Stargate movie two weeks or so ago. Check the boards. I asked a question on here, but no one answered me because it probably would be insane right, but they, the producers, have always said they wanted to do a triology and I think we need this to show Spyglass that there is money in Stargate as a TV show. If they go ahead and do the triology WE, the fans of the TV show, have to unite and go in droves because if we show that the franchise is still alive and kicking then Spyglass would be morons for not putting the show back into production with the old team. Especially if DVD sales stay up. We have to keep thinking long term and we have to NO MATTER WHAT support the major motion film triology idea. If we don’t then kiss what we all love as Stargate TV version anyway goodbye. It won’t come back until well i don’t know when. I guess if we all fracture like we did with Universe then we can just read a book or two about the movie and their plans instead of seeing it on a screen. I hope people won’t be fighting Devlin’s idea but I have a feeling they will.
@mythos Yes,that’s most probably just it.But it is highly unfair towards fans,cause if they’re making even minimum profit while giving us closure with a couple of movies,they should do it,before going to hybernation.
As for something completely new and fresh..closure aside,that should definitely wait few years.
I don’t know what to say. Something that for so long has brought them money. Enough money probably to keep them going during times when they had nothing else making money….and they just throw it out the window.
Looks like MGM’s new leadership is more interested in greed. Very unfortunate and my respect level for the company has gone way way down.
This news coupled with the recent fire-sale of all physical assets of the show lead me to believe that the Stargate property will be up for sale very soon (if it isn’t already)
As usual, SGU bashers are here to blame Brad. For crying out loud give a rest for your hateful theories, you are just being childish. World economy tanked. DVD market tanked. Suddenly it wasn’t bringing so much money as before. MGM went for sale. New owners were interested only and only for very profitable parts of package – not SG which could bring in money, but not lots of them. It is very high propability that whole SG franchise will be up for sale quite soon.
@Brian2k7 – MGM isn’t some indie studio. Greed is definitely their motivation. If their driving force were fan appreciation, of course they’d make the movies. But, particularly having just come out of bankruptcy proceedings, the very most important thing to them was showing a good bottom line.
@saxgod – Such movies would not likely affect the Stargate TV franchise. Things don’t really tend to work that way. If they did, then the creative team behind the movie would have been the driving force behind the show. It was different people who drove the show. Stargate is actually the only successful movie-to-tv conversion that I can think of. Every time there’s a big blockbuster, people try to pitch ideas for a related tv show. Few of them ever get past the first suggestion and none others that I can think of went on to a long run. Most of them end up changed so much to fit the tv mold that the connection is barely noticeable.
What’s is that we simply support the franchise. The fan base needs to be united. We can’t have anymore hate groups against Universe or whatever. SGU season 2 was just released on DVD. If you don’t have a blu ray, then buy that set! If you do, wait for it to come out on blu ray and buy it then! Also, Atlantis is coming out on blu ray, buy that too to show your support! If there’s a whole in your collection, a set you don’t have pick it up! This is what we need to do to show them that there is still interest in this.
@majorsal – Agreed!
Unfortunately though, just like Mr. Burns and Smithers so too would Spyglass/MGM rather bury SG with their worthless carcusses. Well …ok, I’m sort of kidding.
I recently got my brother and his girlfriend to watch SG1 and now they are hooked, and these are people that watch only about 12 hours a year of sci-fi/horror type tv compared to my approximately 600+ hours a year. Now if they can just get 4 more people to watch my work will be done.
Yes to all non-believers, SG is really that good! Of course I’m preaching to the choir on this site so my words are mostly pointless.
Darren, thank you for being at least “somewhat” apologetic (this time around) about this bad news.
I have been mad at Gateworld lately because the last few morsels of bad news which SG fans have received from Gateworld were served up to us gate-lovers as if they were Bon-Bons … yeeesh!
Right now we SG fans have nothing but re-runs and DVD’s to enjoy.
As you know, SyFy is starting to pull the re-runs now too, so it seems that the more that we say we want more Stargate, the less Stargate they give us. This is just wrong on many levels.
I would still very much like to go forth with my idea of an open letter of “HAND PICKED SG FANS” of Stargate and direct this open letter straight at the powers that be at SyFy/MGM/ and NBC… if you wish to throw Spyglass into that mix all the better. This is only fair, because since there was an open letter from SyFy, to the fans, there should be an open letter from the fans to SyFy. Sounds fair doesn’t it? Why can’t we at least try to let them know how deeply we feel on a proper forum like this one. In fact, GateWorld is just about the only forum where something like this would carry some weight, so feel free to message me directly if you are at least considering it.
It’s the right thing to do!
There’s something wrong here! These big studio executives are pullin’ 6 figure salaries because of the fans! They have the jobs that they have because of the fans! They have fancy cars and homes which they posses because of the fans! Not just any fans, … in a VERY large part it was the STARGATE fans!
It’s time now for these folks at the top to give back to this fan-base that supported them for well over a decade! I will gladly take point on orchestrating this “open letter” to these exec’s. The idea I had (if you recall from my other posting on GW) was for 20 Stargate fans of means to put in 100 words or less, why the Stargate should reopen. These hand-picked contributors would be of the caliber that can not be easily ignored! Case in point, Mark Zuckerberg is a Stargate fan, if he wanted to, he could fully fund 5 seasons of what ever Stargate he likes and it would not phase him one bit. He would be one of the people which I would try to get to contribute to this letter, along with several SG loving attorneys, creative writers, producers, actors, politicians, directors and more. You get the idea. When this letter is completed, you put IT on GateWorld, and then let Craig Engle or Roma Khanna or ANYBODY tell these folks in this letter why there is not going to be any more Stargate. If you won’t or can’t do this for the fans, then GateWorld is really just a one way street isn’t it. SyFy and the rest can throw all sorts of negative news at us, and you can sugar coat it a bit, but how WE the fans feel about what ever news we receive, just remains posted here on these mini response slots which is never read by any exec’ anywhere.
If you can’t help the Stargate fans of the world get word back to the powers that be, then these same exec’s will continue to go about their business, scheduling more wrestling and cooking shows and not really knowing the true gravity of what “No More Stargate anything” means to so many of us.
The bottom line is this … The folks who are in charge of the SG franchise should either go forth with more Stargate productions, or simply sell the franchise to a corporation that can put it to good use. Perhaps TNT, Dreamworks, Lucas Films, or even Netflix, somebody who will take the darn thing out of mothballs and reopen it in all of its glory and give the millions SG fans of the world NEW adventures!
Those who currently control the SG franchise must come to understand, a world with a “closed Stargate” is simply not an option. Please help us to Save Future Stargate Travel!
Joseph Sardone
@Jim:
I can not see SGU having those kind of numbers. Stargate maybe has a lot of fans, SGU not so much and the DVD sales provided a final nail in the proverbial coffin.
And by betraying the fans or whatever, most fans already felt betrayed when SGU was green lighted and it was made clear that it was not for them.
@orfeu SGU is Stargate as well,DVD sales as you’ve presented them are apples and oranges..I’ve already explained that and if anything provided a final nail in the coffin is the split among the fans.Split because of which now none of the fans of stargate,whatever series in the franchise they prefer won’t get anything.
Also it is absolutely not true that most fans already felt betrayed when SGU got greenlit,cause season one wouldn’t have finished with 1,6 mil viewers and there wouldn’t have been season two at all.Season two that in the view of majority of ppl was in fact better.
And the last thing,if you’d read the article correctly,you’d have noticed that they’ve given up on the entire stargate franchise,including sg1 and atlantis movies.That has absolutely NOTHING to do with sgu.
Point being,they’re unwilling to make any of the stargate movies,regardless of the series in the franchise.
So basically stargate fans got what they deserved..NOTHING! And if I were Brad Wright,with insults and lack of respect he had to put up from ppl that no nothing about creative process,or tv business and that had forgotten overnight that he was the one who brought them 15 seasons of show they fell in love with in the first place..I wouldn’t have tried even one dioda as hard as he had to bring them anything more.
Actually I have to correct myself..I don’t really think that stargate fans deserved what they got.What I had in mind is actually the vocal minority,that for one reason,or another still can’t get passed SGU.In reallity they really don’t matter at all,nor should we care about them.
What’s really a shame is that none of us who are true fans of stargate won’t get to see closure of those few stories from all three series,that could have been brought to us with just few movies.Just as it is unfair that the creators of the show we love didn’t get that final chance to finish their stories.Something they’ve most definitely earned concerning their record and everything they’ve brought to the fans,studio and network over 15 years!
@Jim:
No one believed those movies would be made. TBTW lost the confidence of the fans the second they announced SGU. I cannot see SGU as Stargate and, from the look of things, many people can’t.
They screwed up a lot and now they are out of a job. But they had to respect their artistic soul or something. The DVDs sold poorly. There was no split between the fans, only agreement: we don’t like SGU.
@Jim:
“Brad Wright,with insults and lack of respect he had to put up from ppl that no nothing about creative process,or tv business and that had forgotten overnight that he was the one who brought them 15 seasons of show they fell in love with in the first place..”
Of course, and he did this out of the goodness of his heart. Let’s get real. He did it for money. The moment he could not please the fans, which SGU did, he got fired. He turned his back to everything that made him look smart, which just proves he didn’t have any idea what he was doing, and made one of the worst shows in the last 20 years (and expensive, did I mention expensive?).
@Pioneering: You took the words right out of my mouth. Now that exes know that creative producers can loose their touch like Berman did, they are mindful of these sort of flops. Universe NEVER should have been made. It was nothing more than a grandiose Power Point presentation. Imagine if Roddenberry actually produced a “WAGON TRAIN TO THE STARS” series… Bradwright was just an ego and that happens over time when the fans tell you that everything you do is WONDERFUL AND AWESOME. If you want to keep your edge you get better by challenging yourself not staying the same and Atlantis was subcombing to the same mediocrity that killed SGU from Go. At least Atlantis made it up by casting…
“His plan, from what I understood … was he wanted to do two movies, one to finish out our storyline, and one [with] an all-star cast they that they would shoot in Hawaii.”
I wouldn’t have been interested in any of the movies.
I also don’t think combining SG1/SGA with SGU would have worked because of the whole style of those series. SG1/SGA are just completely different than SGU. The SGU parts/characters would have been a foreign object in the movie. Or if they would have made the movie in an SGU style, they probably would have changed the personalities of the SG1/SGA characters again, like they did when they were guest stars in SGU. That is also not something I would have liked to see.
I am waiting for a complete reboot now, because I think the SG1/SGA/SGU universe is dead. I bet the next Stargate movie/series will start with humans discovering the Stargate on earth for the first time in the present. I guess it will take some years, maybe even decades, but I am sure it will happen.
I don’t understand why so much of my previous comment got moderated. I think it is a valid opinion, that the crossover movie would have never included all SG1/SGA characters. That would have been too many in addition to characters from SGU. I definitely would have missed some SG1/SGA characters.
And I simply don’t like the SGU characters, which makes their inclusion a negative aspect for me. They would have been an annoyance for me, something which makes the movie worse. They would have taken away screen time from the SG1/SGA characters, I am interested in.
I am sure I am not the only one, who don’t like all Stargate series. I bet there are a lot of people out there, who only like one or two Stargate series. Not every SGA fan likes the SG1 characters, not every SGU fan likes the SGA characters, and so on.
psw said: “I am sure I am not the only one, who don’t like all Stargate series. I bet there are a lot of people out there, who only like one or two Stargate series. Not every SGA fan likes the SG1 characters, not every SGU fan likes the SGA characters, and so on.” —–
i’m one of those ppl that only really likes sg1, BUT, it’s this mindset that’s dividing fandom so much, and possibly making it *so* hard for the spyglass ptb to actually know what to do.
it’s like whatever spyglass does, someone(s) are going to not like it. doesn’t sound easier to just not do *anything*, and then wait a while and reboot?
i don’t like that idea at all, but i can see the logic in it, b/c we just can’t stop fighting for wanting our preferences over the others. (i’m very guilty of this too)
if i were in charge (knowing what i know), i’d make a combo mini series, focusing on sg1 and atlantis, but with a side dose of sgu. i’d have sg1 fighting the sgc program being revealed to the world, at the same time as atlantis trying to get back to the pegasus galaxy, only to discover a distress alert from destiny that they are in a desperate situation and need help.
it’s 3 stories in one, but enough time given to properly deal with each and it’s characters. it could be a 3 or 4 part mini series on syfy.
if everyone could just accept that there’s going to be things/characters they don’t want to see, and just focus on what they LIKE… we could just all win.
now all we need is spyglass and syfy to want to do this, getting all the actors to want to participate, and… i don’t know. :p
@orfeu When you say we don’t like sgu,you should say I don’t like sgu,because there’s a lot of ppl that like it..at least as much as the ones that don’t and most probably more.
And even among those who do not like it,there’s a minute,miniscule groupe of ppl like you who for some reason feel the need to offend and spue hate towards Brad Wright.Now I don’t know why that is,but it only shows that you were never real sg fans,cause stargate is HIS creation.And not only his..the entire crew of producers and most writers went on to SGU.
You could have probably watch the adventures of sg1 team till the sun stopped shining,but reality is things change.If you don’t like that fact..fine..that’s you.But if you feel the need to offend the man who brought you 15 seasons of what you supposedly like,you are just one lame,pathetic man.
And trust me,neither BW,nor any of those guys are out of job.
@majorsal I tend to agree with you.If just most of fans where like you,we would have the show now.I too like some of it more than others,but ultimately,I like all of it,cause I just like that world,universe.whatever.
But there are ppl who when they don’t get exactly what they want,how and when they want it,start acting like someone ran over their cat.
They should be pittied,cause I can imagine them not functioning very well in real life either.
SGU was good but with those ratings i kinda felt sorry for MGM. The show was designed from the ground up to attract more viewers and a new breed of fans, it obviously couldn’t. SG-1 and SGA never had those kind of ambitions and were safe because of it.
@Jim:
“it only shows that you were never real sg fans,cause stargate is HIS creation.And not only his..the entire crew of producers and most writers went on to SGU.”
Except the fans, they didn’t go over to SGU.
“because there’s a lot of ppl that like it..at least as much as the ones that don’t and most probably more.”
Of course there are. Where? Sales are poor, viewership was poor, the forum here at GW is dead already.
“And trust me,neither BW,nor any of those guys are out of job.”
Yet another statement without base, like that about those millions of fans which would buy that DVD movie.
“But if you feel the need to offend the man who brought you 15 seasons of what you supposedly like,you are just one lame,pathetic man.”
He was one guy in an entire collective who managed to destroy a good franchise and didn’t have the decency to admit his own limits and retire. he got paid very well for all those 15 years, do please stop with those attempts to make me look guilty.
It seems odd to me that there are people who could think it’s not Brad Wright’s fault that there is no longer Stargate on tv. It was his job to keep Stargate going. He failed. It is his fault. He is, by definition, the one responsible for it by his position. Whether or not people choose to hold animosity to him for it is another matter, but whether it’s his fault is undeniable. If you work for a company and it’s your job to ensure that you don’t run out of self-sealing stem bolts and the company runs out of them, it’s your fault. You failed to do your job. Even if they ran out because your supplier went under, it’s still your fault. Even if somehow they became completely unavailable in the world, it’s still your fault. There’s always reasons for everything, but they don’t change the situation. And if there’s no more self-sealing stem bolts and your job was based entirely around them, the outcome would be that you no longer have a job regardless of what those reasons were because you failed to do your job.
You can claim that the ratings system is bad but it’s the same ratings system he’s been working with through the entire run of the Stargate tv franchise (and the same system that has been around for decades). A system it was his job to know and understand and work within. There are still tv shows getting huge ratings. So there are people whom are capable of doing the job out there. Maybe it was harder in this situation than some, maybe it wasn’t. It doesn’t really matter. The bottom line is that he failed to come through.
He is responsible for SGA ending. It’s documented that he wouldn’t do 2 shows at the same time again and because Syfy wanted SGU (after being promised bigger ratings), SGA was sacrificed. Revisionists will try to claim otherwise but it’s just words. So he is responsible for SGA ending.
He’s a producer. So yes, he has a big ego. Read any interview with him and it’s pretty obvious. He also forgot the cardinal rule of television which is that the story is not yours, it’s the fans. You can self-publish a book. You can make an indie movie with your handycam from best buy. There’s no work-arounds for a television show. Television producer is a job. As a producer, you’re in the upper echelon of your little world of the show, but you still answer to a lot of people, including ultimately the fans. He failed at his job.
Whether or not people choose to have animosity towards him because he failed at his job is up to the person. It is a bit silly to have any real animosity towards him because it is ultimately just a tv show. But he shouldn’t automatically get a buy because of his earlier work. Whether SG1 and SGA makes up for his failure with SGU is up to the individual fan. Those who feel it does are entitled to their opinion and those who feel it does not are entitled to theirs. He failed the fans. His inability to take responsibility for it does lessen my image of him as a person. His blaming the fans rather than taking responsibility for it does lessen my image of him as a person. It is the easy route for him to blame others, but it was ultimately his responsibility. At the same time, I don’t expect my opinion of him to really affect anything. And while I would be slightly hesitant to follow his next project because of this, I wouldn’t rule out watching a show just because of his involvement.
Well said, mythos. I hold little animosity towards Brad as a person, but I certainly don’t hold him (and Rob Cooper) blameless for the end of the franchise.
@Mythos:
I don’t have any animosity against BW, but I get annoyed when people say I own him something for those 15 years of entertainment. He got paid really well for them. He screwed up royally with SGU, he has a lot of merits for the franchises success, but he is also to blame for the its failures. I see SGU as totally his fault.
@Duneknight:
“if it werent for Brad stargate wouldve not even been a franchise. he kept going for 15 years, try to beat that.”
How do you know the franchise wouldn’t have been an even bigger success without him at the helm? Answer: you don’t. And I could also say it was the fans who kept the franchise going. We can see that from when they left SGU, which in spite of having “the entire crew of producers and most writers” from previous shows, tanked.
Let me say it again: “the entire crew of producers and most writers,” but not the FANS. It tanked.
And it was very expensive, did I mention very expensive?
@orfeu I’f you respected facts,you’d be aware that most ppl here on GW liked SGU.Including the ppl who run the site.
And please stop with the dvd sales,I’ve already explained..the sales of an already aired show are something completely different from a new movie,plus I clearly said movies..meaning sg1,atlantis and SGU.
And BW didn’t get the franchise in his hands and ruin it,it was his to beginn with.He had every right to to with it whatever he wanted,as lomg as network and studio approved..and guess what,they did approve.If you don’t like it,you don’t watch it..which is obviously what you did.
Still,the “poor” viewership had to do more with the network policy,cause the show was better than anything sci-fi on tv today.Also the viewing habits have changed,look at all the other shows struggling.But,yes,it is much easier to have just one simple thing,one man to blame,it’s much easier to look at the world as black and white than to turn on the brain.
@Jim:
“I’f you respected facts,you’d be aware that most ppl here on GW liked SGU.Including the ppl who run the site.”
the 40k registered users or the fifty active users plus the site owners? Huge fan base …
And please stop with the dvd sales,I’ve already explained..the sales of an already aired show are something completely different from a new movie,plus I clearly said movies..meaning sg1,atlantis and SGU.”
Of course the sales are different. I mean look at the sales of already aired shows, SGA, SG1, True Blood. Awful. Oh, wait, no, those were pretyy good, True Blood is huge hit actually. For some reason you said that a SGU movie would have amazing sales. And no, you didn’t say anything about SGA and SG1 movies.
“Still,the “poor” viewership had to do more with the network policy,cause the show was better than anything sci-fi on tv today.Also the viewing habits have changed,look at all the other shows struggling.”
And look at the other shows which do great. All the recent scifi was really bad, even Fringe had a bad season. It is not the habbits that changed, it is the shows, they are bad.
For those saying Stargate is probably going to be sold, I bet it is all ready being worked out. The original owners will buy it and make millions off of big budget movies and start over. Hopefully the don’t forget the fans and keep some of the mythology ( the ancients, the Asgard, the Nox …) and they just start over. I would be fine with that. Its better then not having Stargate.
I, too, will always give Brad many kudos for a well-earned place among the Keepers of Stargate past and present. A decade and a half of keeping a fictional universe afloat in a crowded TV marketplace is a stunning feat of creative ambidexterity, indeed.
But…
…Even the most skilled circus juggler will honestly know when their ambidextrous talents have eroded to the point where those same talents are not worthy enough to be shown to his/her paying public. And iffen they DON’T, then those in that paying public will remind the performer of this by way of an ever-shrinking gate purse.
Brad’s time a the top of the SG game began waning a long time ago— he even said as much, when he quipped about his desire to pen a different style of SG than what was already successful beforehand— but his ego left him out in the battle ring of TV producers for far longer than he should’ve been… and it showed. Painfully.
It *is* his fault, people. He- as well as others who’re trying to deflect blame for the showrunner of a successful media franchise with such a high position as his- has to own up to the fact that it is ultimately his responsibility for the unsuccessful course of action taken here in the case of SGU. I’m sure he meant well; but what you’ve *meant* to do, and what you *did* do, sometimes do not match up in the execution department, and a good, honest leader has to take ownership of such an endeavor.
It’s time for new leadership IMHO, and I’m thinking Spyglass must’ve arrived at the same conclusion as well.
Perchance they’ll be a bit warmer to a new set of runners with a new set of Stargate ideas..?
(I mean, Atlantis on the moon with a ticking time bomb because it arrived in the Milky Way..? Say WHAT?? **easy, ulp, breakfast… easy**)
This is old, forget Stargate, it’s dead. Move on, I loved the show, it gave me everything, but it’s dead and gone. Many of us foreigners watched SGU, even if we didn’t agree with the original concept. And that didn’t matter. It seems, if you’re not in the United States, or have a Neilson box, then your views matter not. MGM Spitglass, whomever, they see how simple fan made bits of fluff make it online, and has the support of so many people, that the posters on Youtube makes cash from advertisements—they don’t care though. Our franchise is dead and gone because Hollywood, and Hollywood minded idiots, holds the keys and the locks. When I do a series, it’ll be streamed online, Frak TV, Frak Neilson, Frak Hollywood; do your stuff with no one in between, and do what Alan Moore said; “Things made cheaper, seems to be better done.” What you can’t do, learn to do; special effects, etc, forget Hollywood, do your own thing. Jack, Teal’c Daniel, Sam, Shepherd, Mckay, they’re all dead now, move on.
@orfeu You show remarkable abillity of quoting ppl,but you don’t understand anything.For example Fringe is on Fox and True Blood is better than all three stargate shows put together!
And I have mentioned stargate movies,few still opened threads that should be finished.That is plural and it means more than just SGU movie.Sorry if that’s too hard on your brain,but hey at least your quoting is ok.
Quote away,lol!
@orfeu Oh and I guess Fringe is also too bad for you..not enough guns and explosions,too much to think.
No wonder we live in idiocraty.Caprica was another perfect example of that.
Thank God USA has New York and California if you know what I mean.
@Jim:
OK, I’ll quote you about the movies. Plural. All about SGU:
“What’s most amazing to me is how on earth can it be that they are not willing,interested in making at least one stargate movie,if not two,just one to finish the SGU story,considering the fact that it is the second most lucrative,second strongest franchise after James Bond!?”
So you were using plural. For SGU.
I know True Blood is on HBO, Fringe on Fox. I don’t understand your point. I was saying that there are shows which are good, very good, like SGA, SG1, True Blood, which sell a lot of DVDs, even if those episodes were already aired. Also there are shows with a lot of viewership, although the people changed their habits, as you say. The only thing that changed was SG and for the worst, as a result it was cancelled and all the people involved in it were fired.
Caprica was also a bad show. It got pulled of the air because it was bad. The DVDs sold also poorly. SyFy lost a lot viewers while airing SGU and Caprica.
It’s amusing to watch people defend the popularity of SGU even now. Popular shows sell dvd’s. Doesn’t matter if they aired recently or not. SGU just wasn’t popular. I actually liked the latter episodes of SGU and wanted it to be continued – but if I were the person calling the shots, I’d have axed it too. It wasn’t producing. Ratings were low (doesn’t matter in the least whether you think they’re accurate or not, it’s what’s used). Media sales were low (guess they’re rigged too?). It costs a fortune to make and just wasn’t getting the numbers. If I were one of the execs responsible for deciding for the show, I would have cancelled it after the first season when the numbers were already disappointing for a show that was promised to bring bigger ratings than it’s predecessor.
Cannes is full of films every year that very few will ever see. Often critically acclaimed but also often completely lacking appeal for the masses. If you want to win awards, indie films are a much better way to go than television. And television producers should know this. It’s their job.
@mythos: That’s the long and short of it. SGU was a big expensive experiment. To me the first season was just awful. It was an excercise in watching paint dry. They simply took too long bringing out the bridge taking control and reveal the ship’s mission. The episodes did get better from what I hear the second season was better but that’s not reason for continue seasons. Execs can’t afford to be fans.
SyFy did not want it to work. SyFy already had there mind set by the end of the first season on cancelling SGU. If SyFy had Lost it would not made it past the second season. They had there mind set no matter what the ratings were for season 2. Till this day I have not seen ratings for season 2 and every time someone brings it up to Craig Engler he avoids it. So if you were an Exec I think you would be watching the numbers for season 2. I think it did good I dont know for sure I might be wrong who knows. Does anyone know?
@bringbackatlantisfools – Of course Syfy had their minds set by the end of the first season. The show they had dumped tens of millions of dollars into on promises of big ratings was failing. Badly. If the show would have managed to bring in bigger numbers on the second season, they would have kept it, though. Syfy doesn’t hate science fiction. They hate expensive shows with low ratings. As for ratings for season 2…you seriously haven’t seen them? They’ve been posted on here many times. Look back through the feeds. They were low. Very low.
@bringbackatlantisfools:
“Till this day I have not seen ratings for season 2 and every time someone brings it up to Craig Engler he avoids it. So if you were an Exec I think you would be watching the numbers for season 2.”
The ratings for season 2 were heavily discussed here for almost every episode. They were worst than the ones from season one and many episodes had bellow 1 million viewers, half of them I think.
@orfeu My point was how bad SyFy is and how it’s mostly their fault.HBO always were masters at their job and nowdays even Fox is doing a good job.That’s something SyFy is never gonna get even close to.
You can’t seriously tell me when you look at the new SyFy’s programme that BW is the one who ruined Stargate.MGM and their financial troubles are another matter.But if SGU was such a disaster,why aren’t they making anything else stargate..sg1,atlantis.Atlantis taht was canceled by the network,cause they wanted more viewers to compete with big networks.What they got is flop and what we got is nothing,whatever stargate show you prefere.
Brad Wright is a typical example of an escape goat for everything that went wrong..and why?Because ppl buy that as proven by your views.
Nobody is saying SGU was popular,it’s just that many of us think it was good.And the point of this thread basically was why not give such loyal fans of the entire franchise closure with two.or three movies to close up the stories.
Those movies wouldn’t bring huge profit,but they would bring some profit and considering that,I believe they owe it to fans who’d been sustaining the franchise for 15 years and 17 seasons to shoot those few films.If not sg1,then definitely Atlantis and SGU..with the old cast and before they put the entire thing on ice for another decade!
@Jim (et al):
We have heard you. And as SG fans, most of us agree with all of your heart-felt opinions about some sort of closure…
But we’re also a’tryin’ very hard to get some of you to understand the *business* (read: not so fannish) side of this thang called Tee-Vee, mein freund.
It didn’t get the numbers. BW and his gang didn’t deliver the demos in the numbers promised to the execs. And, according to Huffman above, the incoming chiefs aren’t exactly warm themselves of sending good money after bad in a current sci-fi take that failed.
Now, you and I may disagree with such actions and sentiments on their parts; but they are the ones with the checkbooks AND the shareholder clout to make such decisions.
OMG all of this IS about business..BAD bussines!
And business side of things is NOT the responsibillity of creatives.
And just try to imagine if every businessman out there,after one bad business move sat down with his head down and had an attitude;Ok,it’s all over,everything is gone,ruined,I may as well jump over a bridge.
We all understand,but is it really necessary that every time someone tries to show some support on a FAN site,the same three people have to try and impress everyone with their business,economic theories.
@medegno51 ..”not so fannish”…Newsflash dude,it is a fan site,not Financial Times..we get it..money,numbers,ratings,blah,blah…But somehow I don’t think guys put up this site to discuss economy..at least not as intensly as some would like to with their essays.What’s next..politics!?
@Jim:
“OMG all of this IS about business..BAD bussines! And business side of things is NOT the responsibillity of creatives.”
Yes, but the ones with the business finance the creatives, so unless those “artists” work for a charity, their work has to turn a profit. Any way, our artists from SGU got paid pretty well for a very bad work (SGU), so no need to petty them. BAD business was to finance SGU in the first place.
This is a fan site, where everything is discussed, including the financial aspect.
I would appreciate if you would make up your mind: the SGU movies would turn a (guaranteed) big or a small profit, if the fans are the ones who made this franchise great, or the producers, the fans owe the producers, or SyFy owes the fans. You are all over the map, it is very hard to follow your logic, if there is any.
@orfeu If it is hard for you to follow my logic,that’s your problem,but it is in fact very simple.All you need to do is to actually read what people say,instead of thinking of a “smart” response ahead.First of all,why are you constantly talking about me mentioning some SGU movies.I said a movie..one last to finish the story.And one last Atlantis movie for the same reason.Sg1 doesn’t need it and the mix of all three that had been mentioned doesn’t seem as a good idea to me.That’s it,that’s all I meant.
SyFy is a dead horse and I don’t want to beat it anymore,but my point is that if a studio could make even minimal profit on making those movies and I believe it could..I think they should do it.Yes as a show of appretiation to fans who have stood behind them all those years.And then they could put it on ice and wait for someone else..meaning showrunners,cast..etc.to perhaps revive it some day if it’s gonna be possible.In that sense I do not believe it will,because as mythos,I believe said,even SGU was to much the same..and the industry wants new things.I may be wrong though.
Bad business was on the side of SyFy..that wanted something stargate,but that would also draw in younger audience,be darker and grittier like BSG cause that was the trend at the time.The thing is,you always wanna think ahead,not reproduce what’s trending at the moment..like what they’re doing now with reality shows.If you really mean business and not just overnight profit..wham,bam,thank you ma’m!
And finally artist’s work needs to turn the profit,but it’s someone else’s job to make that happen.By doing all those things that I’ve already mentioned right and by good marketing,by not shifting schedule that worked for a decade..summer-winter,to autumn-spring in an attempt,ludacrise attempt to compete with network tv,big players.Whay fix it,if it ain’t broken?Which is why ultimately all of it happened..change of air-time,bigger budget…It was a failed experiment,but not by BW,by SyFy.Yes he did want to try something different,but I’m sure his different wouldn’t have had to do much with what we’ve seen.I think we saw glimpses of what his and other producer’s idea initially was,but ultimatelly they had to adapt to network’s wishes.Think about it,all the episodes that ppl were most excited about were in fact Brad and company’s attempt to wiggle their way through the contract and make the best of it as much as they could.
I’m not saying that Brad is perfect and didn’t make mistakes,what I’m saying he isn’t the one man who singlehandedly ruined his own creation as some ppl in their frustration would like to think.And people are so fast to crucify and linch.And why..cause it’s much simpler to have someone specific and concrete to point out to as the one who’s guilty of everything,than think about the complexity of reasons.That’s just human nature..always has been.
“Yes, but the ones with the business finance the creatives, so unless those “artists” work for a charity, their work has to turn a profit. Any way, our artists from SGU got paid pretty well for a very bad work (SGU), so no need to petty them. BAD business was to finance SGU in the first place.”
Very well said. I have to say, I was absolutely speechless when Jim uttered that “and business side of things is NOT the responsibility of creatives” bowl of logical guano. The most successful and well-known “creatives” are by default very responsible on the business side of things. “Creatives” have to buy groceries, too…
@Jim:
“By doing all those things that I’ve already mentioned right and by good marketing,by not shifting schedule that worked for a decade..summer-winter,to autumn-spring in an attempt,ludacrise attempt to compete with network tv,big players.”
The best marketing can not sell a bad product. Once the product hits the market, it has to stand on its own. You can flood the streets with commercials, if the people know the product is bad, they wont buy. Also SGU was already going down on Friday. The DVD sales were bad, people weren’t interested in it.
“Whay fix it,if it ain’t broken?”
Good question. Maybe the creators of SGU could answer that.
“Which is why ultimately all of it happened..change of air-time,bigger budget…It was a failed experiment,but not by BW,by SyFy.Yes he did want to try something different,but I’m sure his different wouldn’t have had to do much with what we’ve seen.I think we saw glimpses of what his and other producer’s idea initially was,but ultimatelly they had to adapt to network’s wishes.”
Dod you have any proof of that? Of course, you are sure, should we just trust you, with all the good reasoning you have displayed so far?
@orfeu Should we trust you?What’s your reasoning..constant repeating of wrong facts and constant insisting on DVD sales,something that’s been irrelevanr for two years at least..And the best marketing CAN sell a bad product..you’ve obviously never worked in marketing.
Falling Skies is a perfect example..very poor show with high ratings.
Are you really blind to SyFy programming.Maybe instead of repeating what I’ve said,you could try and say something meaningful of your own.
Another,opposite example would be Firefly..an amazing show with piss poor marketing,shifting air time that got canceled after only 13 episodes.
Now come on go on with your dvd sales and so called arguments..I’m done waisting my time with you.tankfully,there are enough reasonable people on this site.
@Jim:
DVD sales are not relevant? For the last two years? Oh, I get it, SGU sold badly, so, you know, they are irrelevant.
Good marketing can sell a product. Once, maybe, maybe twice. You know, fool me once … In the case of SGU the best marketing could not help. It was just a bad show.
“Maybe instead of repeating what I’ve said,you could try and say something meaningful of your own.”
Maybe instead of making up facts, you should make sense. The reason I quote you is because I don’t want people to think I’m making stuff up.
“Another,opposite example would be Firefly..an amazing show with piss poor marketing,shifting air time that got canceled after only 13 episodes.”
Firefly has a fanatical fanbase, it was poorly treated, but it did get a lot of marketing.
“Falling Skies is a perfect example..very poor show with high ratings.”
Falling Skies doesn’t have high ratings. They have Spirlberg behind, but the ratings are not that great. People are still waiting. Season two will probably be its last if something doesn’t change quick. They already aired three episodes out of ten and the ratings are steady. This is not good, a bad episode, as was Life for SGU, could damage the show a lot. Also a good one … The jury is still out on this one.
“Now come on go on with your dvd sales and so called arguments..I’m done waisting my time with you.tankfully,there are enough reasonable people on this site.”
For your information it is the DVD sales which brought some closure to Firefly. Because those were good someone invested in that movie, Serenity (and lost money). Also the same thing saved Futurama and Family Guy. And what is wrong with my so called arguments? The fact that you cannot refute them and look sane at the same time?
@orfeu Yes 6 mill viewers for a cable show is not good ratings!?Are you all right,do you feel fine? And dvd market has been dead for two years,everyone from planet Earth,you don’t have to be from the US,knows that!Goo back to school,cause by making a statement that Firefly had a good marketing you’ve revealed yourself and your age..finish High School first,lol!
@Jim:
6 millions for the premiere. It dropped in the second episode and didn’t gain anything in the third, although True Blood recovered.
Brad Wright said the DVD market took a beating. But if you look at http://www.the-numbers.com, you will that good products still sell well. Maybe when he said that, it was true, but not anymore.
@orfeu:
“For your information it is the DVD sales which brought some closure to Firefly. Because those were good someone invested in that movie, Serenity (and lost money). Also the same thing saved Futurama and Family Guy. And what is wrong with my so called arguments? The fact that you cannot refute them and look sane at the same time?”
I cannot recall who the particular poster was about two months ago when this was said (maybe it was you, as well then), but I did remember someone pointing out this exact same Firefly example to others like the very one you’re current engaged in conversation with. The argument makes, equally, just as much sense NOW as it did back then.
Firefly had a very good tailwind of fan support to fall back on (despite its disrespectful treatment from the network suits– something all fans/posters can agree on). It also had a very impressive and cohesive fan base, which made the DVD possibility- while indeed a bit risky for the studios- a better chance at succeeding there when other shows of a similar vein would not (and did not) have.
I also have to take this opportunity to humbly apologize to the posters and mods here at GateWorld while, at the same time, responding to your post. I had a few posts mod-ed here in the past few days (in hindsight, for acceptable reasons) for conversing with the same individual you yourself, orfeu, has been trying to reason with these past few posts. I’m not going to try to entertain engagement with that individual again.
@mythos:
“If the show would have managed to bring in bigger numbers on the second season, they would have kept it, though. Syfy doesn’t hate science fiction. They hate expensive shows with low ratings. As for ratings for season 2…you seriously haven’t seen them? They’ve been posted on here many times. Look back through the feeds. They were low. Very low.”
Exactly your point (and others here): These numbers and info on SGU’s continuing problems as it headed towards extinction has been posted here many times for all to see… but as is often the case, there are those that will not open their eyes past their own passions to see such truths. Sad, indeed…
What I don’t understand is that SyFy channel can come up with the money for all these moves, Almighty Thor, Battle of Los Angeles, Beyond Lochness that don’t get the greatest viewership but a TV show that has lasted them 15 year of profit, still making money in syndication, and they can’t say “We’ll give you 2 or 3 movies to finish everything. Close Universe, then do something that will wrap everything up!!!” For those movies they would get the big numbers they are looking for!!! I thought Season 1 of Universe was daytime soap in space, but the second season got better but fell off cause they little time to finish. Just my thoughts!!!
@JoeyCT02 That is exactly right.Nobody’s asking for a series of movies,or a new stargate show,but not to give us 2 movies is plainly arrogant.Especially after as you said 15 years of bringing profit,syndication…They wouldn’t loose a dollar on it,would make some profit and the whole story could be put to rest.Forever,cause I honestly believe Stargate isn’t coming back,ever.Nor should it.
@JoeyCT02 – It doesn’t really work that way. Syfy rarely ever foots the bill for this stuff directly. The movies are produced by production companies which sometimes get some of the money for the movie from the channel. But that money is often mixed with the money of others. And as an investor on the movie, they can control the deal they make with the network itself and actually give themselves a better deal than if they were working on it outright. And then, make money on other distributions of the movie as well and have filler. Television stations need filler. Things they can show again and again that may not get big audiences, but get enough to count. Even a bad movie on syfy typically will get higher ratings than many episodes of SGU did. And they can show it again and again to rack up the numbers.
Why can’t they use this same model to produce Stargate movies? Because no one would want that. Would you really want a Stargate movie with special effects that look like they were crayoned directly onto the film? A bunch of ‘actors’ that they found from a mix of has-been 80′s personalities and whomever they could find at the denny’s nearby? I sure wouldn’t. And those who own the franchise wouldn’t either. It would devalue it too much. All it takes is for people to see one really bad syfy-movie level stargate movie and the syndication value would plummet.
@mythos The point that I was trying to make is that is money out there. I believe when you have a series that lasted so long and has produced so much revenue, has such a loyal fan base it would be nice to wrap it up completely. They gave SG1 2 movies to finish the show that was losing numbers, then tied it into Stargate Atlantis, which had a final conclusion with back on earth. I would figure from a studio point of view, writers, actors and specially the fans that it would be nice to have closure. Finish the show with a ending, finale. Not a cliff hanger, those are for the cheesy horror movies. I also think the show should finish and the franchise laid to rest. I think the show just needs to end with a Big Bang!!! That could be a spoiler…LOL!!!
@Eagalis I never said SyFy connected with 15 years,read it again. It concerns studio and SyFy.
Although SyFy had 12 seasons of stargate and it made there name.Without it,they would have never made BSG and…wait that’s it,nothing more worth mentioning.
And now studio and the network can’t come up with $20 mil…yeah right.
@JoeyCT02 – I’d like to see all of the Stargate movies made myself, but I also know why they’re not likely to do it. They take a risk in making these movies. A risk that could devalue their syndication revenue. It would have to make a lot of money to make up for that. They are probably raking in the cash on the syndication for 17 seasons of the shows. Even if they only made $1 million a year for each season of the show, which is likely only a fraction of what they make, that’s still $17 million a year for doing nothing. The are making more than the movies would make without even lifting a finger. But make a bad movie and risk cutting into that easy money. The movies would have a much better chance of being made if Stargate hadn’t done so well for so long.
@orfeu Studio sells it’s product,including air rights to a network,in this case SyFy and then the network who by owning the air rights collects most of the profit from syndication(meaning renting their rights to other networks to air it).
And movie not being made by SyFy was my exact point.Like I said,finish the school first.
Of course there’s a lot more to all that but I simplified it as much as possible just for you @orfeu.
Mythos could know the details and possibly enlight me about it,but not you,nor were I even adressing you! Give it up.
I’m not sure of the specifics of the deal between Syfy and MGM but it would be unusual for a studio to sell the show outright to a broadcaster. In all likelihood, Syfy only had original airing rights to the seasons of Stargate that it was the first to show. Any syndication deals would have most likely seen the money go to MGM. I think the only way Syfy would get any money is if another network in the US wanted to air an episode for which Syfy’s original airing rights have not yet expired.
It is a sad day to see that Spyglass has no intention of continuing the second most important franchise it owns (next to James Bond). You would think Spyglass would give more respect to the long track record that Brad Wright has with Stargate.
wraithkelso | July 4 @ 3:56 pmWell, I will be boycotting any MGM releases…
julslakeheath | July 4 @ 4:31 pmIt’s interesting to keep reading and hearing about more of these behind-the-scenes deals that are/were being negotiated.
I really wonder if SyFy isn’t/wasn’t incredibly leary about MGM/Spyglass’s future and thus the decision to push them aside by moving Stargate into position for cancellation so that they could claim it was MGM/Stargate’s fault. “All our other shows are doing just fine!” Meanwhile, Spyglass not giving any favors to the Stargate franchise is probably why the franchise isn’t getting picked up elsewhere.
GoodThings2Life | July 4 @ 4:33 pmor maybe they just aren’t interested in a failed show…
daug21 | July 4 @ 4:43 pmI think what bothers me the most is that we have a 17 season long sci-fi epic that, though it ended prematurely, really only needed these last two films to close the book. If the show airs in 120 countries, it doesn’t seem like a modestly budgeted film would have lost money.
As much as I miss Stargate, closure would’ve at least made the ending of the series acceptable. Instead, we’ve got hanging threads that may never get an ending.
Cheshil | July 4 @ 4:49 pm@Cheshil whats worse is that there are hanging threads for 2 different series. Universe: will they ever make it home? will they ever complete the mission?
Atlantis: will Ronon and Teyla ever make it back home to their people in Pegasus galaxy? What happened to Todd?
And even in SG-1 there are a couple big questions I have: will the Stargate ever go public? Do we really have a moon base now?
It would be nice to get the stories finished!!!!!
wraithkelso | July 4 @ 5:03 pmWhat will it take to show them that we want this? EVERY Stargate fan I see is asking about future movies/television projects, will there be continuations of SG-1/SGA/SGU, etc. etc. I believe that MGM/Spyglass are missing out on a big financial opportunity with it, come on! Give us two last movies! You promised us two movies two years ago anyway and you didn’t deliver and you know what? ITS YOUR OWN DUMB FAULT! That’s right! Its not our fault, its YOUR fault for stupid financial decisions that placed YOU in bankruptcy and as a result you’re punishing US? I keep on thinking back to Star Trek. With Star Trek there was somewhat of a sense of satisfaction because each series (except TOS of course which really didn’t need one) had a finale and had closure. SGU and SGA had finales, but they weren’t searies finales as much as they were season finales. Instead you throw money at a useless series called VIKINGS which will fail just like Camelot has failed on Showtime because nobody will watch it, why not throw that same money at a few Stargate movies to conclude the franchise and finally put it to rest? You’re even releasing Atlantis on blu ray! If you didn’t think Stargate was still profitable you wouldn’t be releasing it on blu ray!
When Star Trek ended its TV run, there were 5 seasons and well over 400 episodes between the five seasons. People were sick of it. Stargate is nowhere NEAR reaching that limit. People still want more. Everybody I know who is a Stargate fan, on the Internet, etc. says when will we get more? Even on Star Trek sites people want more Stargate!
I have no problem with Dean Devlin going back and finishing his trilogy, in fact, I’m interested to see what he would have done differently. HOWEVER, before you do that why not give closure to the TV franchise so fans are ready to move on?
Browncoat1984 | July 4 @ 5:21 pm[...] GateWorld.net Sven Woditschka On Juli – 5 – [...]
Kein Interesse an Stargate | Stargate-Fenura.com | Newsportal | July 4 @ 6:02 pmWas hoping to see some investigative reporting here. Or at least a “Spyglass turned down our requests for an interview.”
zainea13 | July 4 @ 7:00 pmI can see why Spyglass might be leary about working with Brad and Co. again, he promised the moon and didn’t deliver. However, I see no reason why they couldn’t assign the franchise to someone else they trust to breath new life into Stargate. They must be very bitter about how things turned out to want nothing to do with the entire franchise. And good point by someone above, they are releasing a Blu-Ray of Atlantis, so they must feel someone wants to see a bit of Stargate.
Sylvia | July 4 @ 7:31 pmPS – That gum chewing drove me nuts! (Cranky Old Woman here)
Sylvia | July 4 @ 7:32 pmi know its a little off topic but i tend to think of it like this if say 400 people go to watch a movie in a cinema and say about halfway thru about 200 walk out how would the remaining 200 people feel if suddenly the lights came on,the movie stopped and then asked to leave by staff? if it was you would you ever go back to that cinema again? if it were me of course not so why do networks continue to do just that to us canceling good shows before they get a chance to finish? maybe its time for networks to change and get with the times alot of people dont watch live tv they watch it later after they have recorded it or on portable devices etc so the old ratings system is both unfair and inaccurate and why cancel a entire franchise based on the ratings of 1 show in 1 country? doesnt sound like good business sense 2 me lol i have seen loads and loads of comments and reasons why people think it got canceled etc some say they liked it they way it was and others were more than happy to bash the program with their dislikes about it at the end of the day a story was being told and its only polite and fair to let be told from start to finish those that like it enjoy it those that hate it plz just go to sleep or something and not seek out forums to vent your hate i mean why even bother if i dont like a program i just dont watch it lol i hope that someone will pick up stargate and continue the story it doesnt even have to be a major studio there are alot of independent talented wealthy people out there that could join forces and save stargate if networks wont show it then do it as webisodes or something anyway im sure there are a few options that could help save stargate we can either keep going around and around in circles saying the same things over and over again or actually try and do something about it thanx for reading :)
StArGaTeFaN | July 4 @ 8:16 pmWhat’s most amazing to me is how on earth can it be that they are not willing,interested in making at least one stargate movie,if not two,just one to finish the SGU story,considering the fact that it is the second most lucrative,second strongest franchise after James Bond!?
Jim | July 4 @ 9:53 pmThat is so completely puzzling,it seems as if something was so wrong with that picture.
How is that possible,I will never understand,it could be properly done with $10 million budget at the most.And no one can tell me that they wouldn’t turn a considerable profit with that kind of money invested.I’m absolutely positive that at least 2 mil ppl worldwide would buy that dvd/blue-ray,which means some $40-50 mill.in revenue..at least $35 mill.pure profit.I believe that much at least would be guaranteed,probably more when renting dvds is included.And we’re talking USA,Canada,Europe,Australia,Japan,Russia and few South American countries.
This is disappointing news but I could see why continuing the franchise would give spyglass some pause. Ostensibly SGU was a reboot of the franchise and it ultimately flopped. Whatever the reasons continuing on that avenue would evidently be too big a financial risk. The original movie at the time it came out in 1994 was considered a big budgeted flop hence why it never got the sequel its producers wanted in last 17 years. Then the SG1 and SGA stories apparently fizzled out in the minds of SyFy, MGM, and the producers that got bored producing the two shows. The show now suffers from what Star Trek was after Enterprise where the series had absolutely no feasible or obvious place to go from there until JJ Abrams came along. Stargate could make money but Spyglass probably believes that at the moment they don’t have anyone to make Stargate work anymore. Going forward the questions will be who and where is Stargate’s JJ Abrams.
Zach236 | July 4 @ 10:19 pm@Zach236 Whil I kind of agree with you, the problem is, SG1 still has stories to tell (with Amanda Tapping, Chris Judge, Michael Shanks, RDA, etc), Atlantis still has plenty of stories to tell with (Joe Flannigan, David Hewlett, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Paul McGillion, Jewel Staite, and Robert Picardo). And at we at least need to get the Destiny crew home (after finding whats out there) and the story needs to be told by (Alaina Huffman, Robert Carlyle, David Blue, Brian J Smith, Louis Ferrera, Lou Diamond Philips, Eleyse Levesqu (spelling), Ming Na, etc).
My point is, while a reboot can and should happen in the future, we need to finish the stories we have now, and with the same actors (who I’m pretty sure would all do it). Can you really imagine watching Stargate Atlantis without Col Sheppard and Dr McKay?
wraithkelso | July 4 @ 10:39 pmI don’t know when MGM went bankrupt but if it was after 2007 when SG1 got cancelled then it makes sense! You don’t cancel your best TV franchise & expect to stay in business! I think Spyglass should @ least do the SG1 & SGA movies because they know they will make money off them. I would be leery of making an SGU movie too since the series wasn’t anywhere near as good as the other two series. I think they should have made SGU into one or two TV movies before making the series to find out how the Stargate fans would do with a spin-off that’s completely different from the other two series & closer to a BSG spin-off/rip-off.
loki47 | July 5 @ 12:11 amTeen Wolf? Seriously? It was good as a movie, owing mostly to Michael J. Fox’s nerdy charisma. But everyone forgot they made a sequel, for good reason. Ah, well, at least they’re not making TV shows about wrestling.
Dachannien | July 5 @ 12:48 am@Dachannien wouldn’t a wresting shoe be a show about wrestling?
wraithkelso | July 5 @ 1:15 amSGU never should have been made. I would have produced a SGA movie & another SG-1 movie at least once every other year to ride out the ecomony but keep the Stargate existence going. Now SG has it’s “Voyager” and/or “Enterprise” failed BSG ripoff series under it’s belt. Teen Wolf, what a waste.
btc909 | July 5 @ 3:56 amLook, I love the show(s) as much as anyone, but let’s be real. SG-1 ran its course. The thing that killed it was everyone thinking that season 7 was the last. It would have been a good ending, too. But it got picked up for season 8 and that was a surprise. The threw it together as best they could, but since no one was expecting it the episodes were sub-par at best. It picked up in season 9 and 10, but season 8 was so bad that only the most die-hard of fans were left after that.
Atlantis went away prematurely. I think the its death was the result of Torri Higgonson leaving the show. She was awesome. My guess is it was not her idea but that doesn’t matter at this point. She left and that vital role was lost after that. They brought Amanda Tapping in and that should have been great but her character was completely wasted. Woolsey turned out to be okay, but by then the damage was done.
SGU started out with strikes against it and never helped its own cause. It was a good show with a good premise. However, the producers (or whoever) decided to capitalize on the Battlestar Galactica craze and go for the dark, gritty, shaky-cam pseudo reality sci-fi style. Although that isn’t what Stargate is all about they ALMOST pulled it off. The only flaw was that the show ended up being boring. SG-1 and Atlantis managed to develop characters while still being somewhat light-hearted and action oriented. SGU followed a cycle that could never have hoped to keep a similar audience. The season premier was really good, but then it got boring and didn’t pick up again until the season finale. The second season followed the same pattern. The show had a lot of potential, but just couldn’t hold interest. Any sci-fi show has to maintain a good balance between action and story/character development to be successful and SGU never achieved that balance. It looked as if it was going to do it toward the end of season two, but by then it was too late.
The point is, the franchise had run its course and there wasn’t much left to do. Everyone wants to see RDA and crew back in action, but you have to consider the actors feelings and RDA wasn’t interested in doing it full time anymore. Who can blame him? he isn’t the same guy he was 20 years ago!
Are there still plenty of stories to be told in the Stargate universe? Of course there are. But it would have taken new producers/writers to make it happen. No one can expect the same people to keep coming up with new ideas within the same universe for that long. It just isn’t possible. As much as they love the show, it was constraining them and they were constraining it. That’s the way storytelling goes, and in the television biz these days if a show isn’t a hit right away it isn’t going to stick around. Especially on a cable network like SyFy. I doubt it can afford it.
tmach | July 5 @ 4:11 am@Jim:
“And no one can tell me that they wouldn’t turn a considerable profit with that kind of money invested.I’m absolutely positive that at least 2 mil ppl worldwide would buy that dvd/blue-ray,which means some $40-50 mill.in revenue..at least $35 mill.pure profit.”
Here on GW, on the forum, it was discussed the DVD sales for SGU. They sold something like 23 000.
orfeu | July 5 @ 4:42 amMGM/Spyglass didn’t say no to Stargate as much as they said no to Brad Wright. Think about it. He took the most successful Science Fiction franchise in U.S. TV history and ran it into the ground with his failed Universe experiment. And he disrespected the previous two Stargate series and the fans in the process. Brad Wright is the Rick Berman of Stargate. Would you invest in his leadership.
When we do get Stargate again, and we will get it eventually, it will be under new leadership. Are you listening, J.J. Abrams?
Pioneering | July 5 @ 7:45 am@orfeu But,see that is something completely different.Those SGU DVDs sold were of the show that had already aired.And they have only been released for so long,so they are still being sold.
Jim | July 5 @ 10:52 amI’m talking about completely new DVD/Blue-Ray of a story’s closure that would have not been shown anywhere previously.
What you’re saying would be like comparing the sales of The Arc of Truth and Stargate Continuum direct to DVD with the sales of SG-1 and Atlantis seasons on DVD.When those two categories cannot be compared.Those two straight to DVD movies had sold in at least ten time larger numbers than already aired seasons..in the US only.Not to mention the rest of the world.Also I know for a fact that in some countries it is very hard.if not impossible to buy seasonal dvds,while you can find movies.
I’ve read aproximations that there is some 6-8 mill.stargate fans around the world.If only one third,or even quarter of them buys the movie,which ever one is hypothetically made and I’m sure that many would buy it,a profit is there.
And I absolutely agree with everyone who said;it doesn’t even have to be a series of movies,like Star Trek,but just the closure of those few already existing stories.
Business is all about the numbers. Just like major movies that rake in hundreds of millions of dollars play with the numbers to make it seem like they lost money to avoid paying extra royalties, television gets the same kind of ‘creative accounting’. It comes down to the fact that they could make the bottom line look better by cutting the show rater than by supporting it. It’s unclear if the show was actually making money or losing money, but even if it were making money, it wouldn’t have been making enough to get the attention it needed. Fans may want to see the same shows over and over, but investors want ‘new and fresh’. And because of it’s extensive run, even with a new direction like SGU, it’s still bound so much to the original idea that it couldn’t really be ‘new and fresh’.
This could ultimately be for the best, though. If MGM, under it’s new overlords, doesn’t hold much interest in doing anything with the property, they may sell it to someone who does. With the right people in control, it could definitely live and grow again. It would be bittersweet because it would probably mean there would be no hope for closure to any of the remaining threads from the current franchise, but it would at least mean more hope for the future. For now, as long as the syndication checks stay strong, that’s all the studio is likely interested in.
mythos | July 5 @ 11:57 am[...] haben. Das haben Sie nämlich nicht. Das ist alles nur ein bißchen kompliziert … derzeit. [Gateworld, Stargate Project] [...]
Stargate Filme: Universe’s Alaina Huffman sagt, “Spyglass hat kein Interesse, das SG-Franchise fortzuführen” | Serien-Load.de | July 5 @ 11:59 amFirst off I wanted to say I called it when Devlin commented on wanting to do the sequels to the Stargate movie two weeks or so ago. Check the boards. I asked a question on here, but no one answered me because it probably would be insane right, but they, the producers, have always said they wanted to do a triology and I think we need this to show Spyglass that there is money in Stargate as a TV show. If they go ahead and do the triology WE, the fans of the TV show, have to unite and go in droves because if we show that the franchise is still alive and kicking then Spyglass would be morons for not putting the show back into production with the old team. Especially if DVD sales stay up. We have to keep thinking long term and we have to NO MATTER WHAT support the major motion film triology idea. If we don’t then kiss what we all love as Stargate TV version anyway goodbye. It won’t come back until well i don’t know when. I guess if we all fracture like we did with Universe then we can just read a book or two about the movie and their plans instead of seeing it on a screen. I hope people won’t be fighting Devlin’s idea but I have a feeling they will.
saxgod | July 5 @ 12:25 pm@mythos Yes,that’s most probably just it.But it is highly unfair towards fans,cause if they’re making even minimum profit while giving us closure with a couple of movies,they should do it,before going to hybernation.
As for something completely new and fresh..closure aside,that should definitely wait few years.
Jim | July 5 @ 1:09 pm@daug21 – It wouldn’t be a “failed show” if they’d cowboy up and order more episodes.
TV Junkie | July 5 @ 2:16 pmI don’t know what to say. Something that for so long has brought them money. Enough money probably to keep them going during times when they had nothing else making money….and they just throw it out the window.
Looks like MGM’s new leadership is more interested in greed. Very unfortunate and my respect level for the company has gone way way down.
Brian2k7 | July 5 @ 3:49 pmThis news coupled with the recent fire-sale of all physical assets of the show lead me to believe that the Stargate property will be up for sale very soon (if it isn’t already)
jonmuse | July 5 @ 5:17 pmAs usual, SGU bashers are here to blame Brad. For crying out loud give a rest for your hateful theories, you are just being childish. World economy tanked. DVD market tanked. Suddenly it wasn’t bringing so much money as before. MGM went for sale. New owners were interested only and only for very profitable parts of package – not SG which could bring in money, but not lots of them. It is very high propability that whole SG franchise will be up for sale quite soon.
Pecisk | July 5 @ 5:24 pmI want to point out that Roma Khanna is former NBC Universal. Yeah, current SyFy owners.
They simply wants SG to die. Sci-fi TV is too expensive and with too low profit margins for them. Period.
Pecisk | July 5 @ 5:38 pm@Brian2k7 – MGM isn’t some indie studio. Greed is definitely their motivation. If their driving force were fan appreciation, of course they’d make the movies. But, particularly having just come out of bankruptcy proceedings, the very most important thing to them was showing a good bottom line.
@saxgod – Such movies would not likely affect the Stargate TV franchise. Things don’t really tend to work that way. If they did, then the creative team behind the movie would have been the driving force behind the show. It was different people who drove the show. Stargate is actually the only successful movie-to-tv conversion that I can think of. Every time there’s a big blockbuster, people try to pitch ideas for a related tv show. Few of them ever get past the first suggestion and none others that I can think of went on to a long run. Most of them end up changed so much to fit the tv mold that the connection is barely noticeable.
mythos | July 5 @ 5:39 pmWhat’s is that we simply support the franchise. The fan base needs to be united. We can’t have anymore hate groups against Universe or whatever. SGU season 2 was just released on DVD. If you don’t have a blu ray, then buy that set! If you do, wait for it to come out on blu ray and buy it then! Also, Atlantis is coming out on blu ray, buy that too to show your support! If there’s a whole in your collection, a set you don’t have pick it up! This is what we need to do to show them that there is still interest in this.
Browncoat1984 | July 5 @ 8:03 pmif spyglass/mgm isn’t interested in stargate anymore, sell it to someone(s) that is!!
majorsal | July 5 @ 8:22 pm@majorsal – Agreed!
worgel | July 5 @ 9:48 pmUnfortunately though, just like Mr. Burns and Smithers so too would Spyglass/MGM rather bury SG with their worthless carcusses. Well …ok, I’m sort of kidding.
I recently got my brother and his girlfriend to watch SG1 and now they are hooked, and these are people that watch only about 12 hours a year of sci-fi/horror type tv compared to my approximately 600+ hours a year. Now if they can just get 4 more people to watch my work will be done.
worgel | July 5 @ 10:04 pmYes to all non-believers, SG is really that good! Of course I’m preaching to the choir on this site so my words are mostly pointless.
Well okay its more like 450+ hrs of sci-fi tv and about 150+ hrs of sci-fi/horror movies a year.
worgel | July 5 @ 10:16 pmI thought about that a little too much.
Darren, thank you for being at least “somewhat” apologetic (this time around) about this bad news.
I have been mad at Gateworld lately because the last few morsels of bad news which SG fans have received from Gateworld were served up to us gate-lovers as if they were Bon-Bons … yeeesh!
Right now we SG fans have nothing but re-runs and DVD’s to enjoy.
As you know, SyFy is starting to pull the re-runs now too, so it seems that the more that we say we want more Stargate, the less Stargate they give us. This is just wrong on many levels.
I would still very much like to go forth with my idea of an open letter of “HAND PICKED SG FANS” of Stargate and direct this open letter straight at the powers that be at SyFy/MGM/ and NBC… if you wish to throw Spyglass into that mix all the better. This is only fair, because since there was an open letter from SyFy, to the fans, there should be an open letter from the fans to SyFy. Sounds fair doesn’t it? Why can’t we at least try to let them know how deeply we feel on a proper forum like this one. In fact, GateWorld is just about the only forum where something like this would carry some weight, so feel free to message me directly if you are at least considering it.
It’s the right thing to do!
There’s something wrong here! These big studio executives are pullin’ 6 figure salaries because of the fans! They have the jobs that they have because of the fans! They have fancy cars and homes which they posses because of the fans! Not just any fans, … in a VERY large part it was the STARGATE fans!
It’s time now for these folks at the top to give back to this fan-base that supported them for well over a decade! I will gladly take point on orchestrating this “open letter” to these exec’s. The idea I had (if you recall from my other posting on GW) was for 20 Stargate fans of means to put in 100 words or less, why the Stargate should reopen. These hand-picked contributors would be of the caliber that can not be easily ignored! Case in point, Mark Zuckerberg is a Stargate fan, if he wanted to, he could fully fund 5 seasons of what ever Stargate he likes and it would not phase him one bit. He would be one of the people which I would try to get to contribute to this letter, along with several SG loving attorneys, creative writers, producers, actors, politicians, directors and more. You get the idea. When this letter is completed, you put IT on GateWorld, and then let Craig Engle or Roma Khanna or ANYBODY tell these folks in this letter why there is not going to be any more Stargate. If you won’t or can’t do this for the fans, then GateWorld is really just a one way street isn’t it. SyFy and the rest can throw all sorts of negative news at us, and you can sugar coat it a bit, but how WE the fans feel about what ever news we receive, just remains posted here on these mini response slots which is never read by any exec’ anywhere.
If you can’t help the Stargate fans of the world get word back to the powers that be, then these same exec’s will continue to go about their business, scheduling more wrestling and cooking shows and not really knowing the true gravity of what “No More Stargate anything” means to so many of us.
The bottom line is this … The folks who are in charge of the SG franchise should either go forth with more Stargate productions, or simply sell the franchise to a corporation that can put it to good use. Perhaps TNT, Dreamworks, Lucas Films, or even Netflix, somebody who will take the darn thing out of mothballs and reopen it in all of its glory and give the millions SG fans of the world NEW adventures!
themaingmaster | July 6 @ 12:24 amThose who currently control the SG franchise must come to understand, a world with a “closed Stargate” is simply not an option. Please help us to Save Future Stargate Travel!
Joseph Sardone
@Jim:
I can not see SGU having those kind of numbers. Stargate maybe has a lot of fans, SGU not so much and the DVD sales provided a final nail in the proverbial coffin.
And by betraying the fans or whatever, most fans already felt betrayed when SGU was green lighted and it was made clear that it was not for them.
orfeu | July 6 @ 5:50 am@orfeu SGU is Stargate as well,DVD sales as you’ve presented them are apples and oranges..I’ve already explained that and if anything provided a final nail in the coffin is the split among the fans.Split because of which now none of the fans of stargate,whatever series in the franchise they prefer won’t get anything.
Jim | July 7 @ 3:31 amAlso it is absolutely not true that most fans already felt betrayed when SGU got greenlit,cause season one wouldn’t have finished with 1,6 mil viewers and there wouldn’t have been season two at all.Season two that in the view of majority of ppl was in fact better.
And the last thing,if you’d read the article correctly,you’d have noticed that they’ve given up on the entire stargate franchise,including sg1 and atlantis movies.That has absolutely NOTHING to do with sgu.
Point being,they’re unwilling to make any of the stargate movies,regardless of the series in the franchise.
So basically stargate fans got what they deserved..NOTHING! And if I were Brad Wright,with insults and lack of respect he had to put up from ppl that no nothing about creative process,or tv business and that had forgotten overnight that he was the one who brought them 15 seasons of show they fell in love with in the first place..I wouldn’t have tried even one dioda as hard as he had to bring them anything more.
Actually I have to correct myself..I don’t really think that stargate fans deserved what they got.What I had in mind is actually the vocal minority,that for one reason,or another still can’t get passed SGU.In reallity they really don’t matter at all,nor should we care about them.
Jim | July 7 @ 3:46 amWhat’s really a shame is that none of us who are true fans of stargate won’t get to see closure of those few stories from all three series,that could have been brought to us with just few movies.Just as it is unfair that the creators of the show we love didn’t get that final chance to finish their stories.Something they’ve most definitely earned concerning their record and everything they’ve brought to the fans,studio and network over 15 years!
@Jim:
No one believed those movies would be made. TBTW lost the confidence of the fans the second they announced SGU. I cannot see SGU as Stargate and, from the look of things, many people can’t.
They screwed up a lot and now they are out of a job. But they had to respect their artistic soul or something. The DVDs sold poorly. There was no split between the fans, only agreement: we don’t like SGU.
orfeu | July 7 @ 4:03 am@Jim:
“Brad Wright,with insults and lack of respect he had to put up from ppl that no nothing about creative process,or tv business and that had forgotten overnight that he was the one who brought them 15 seasons of show they fell in love with in the first place..”
Of course, and he did this out of the goodness of his heart. Let’s get real. He did it for money. The moment he could not please the fans, which SGU did, he got fired. He turned his back to everything that made him look smart, which just proves he didn’t have any idea what he was doing, and made one of the worst shows in the last 20 years (and expensive, did I mention expensive?).
orfeu | July 7 @ 4:11 am@Pioneering: You took the words right out of my mouth. Now that exes know that creative producers can loose their touch like Berman did, they are mindful of these sort of flops. Universe NEVER should have been made. It was nothing more than a grandiose Power Point presentation. Imagine if Roddenberry actually produced a “WAGON TRAIN TO THE STARS” series… Bradwright was just an ego and that happens over time when the fans tell you that everything you do is WONDERFUL AND AWESOME. If you want to keep your edge you get better by challenging yourself not staying the same and Atlantis was subcombing to the same mediocrity that killed SGU from Go. At least Atlantis made it up by casting…
Saquist | July 7 @ 5:09 am“His plan, from what I understood … was he wanted to do two movies, one to finish out our storyline, and one [with] an all-star cast they that they would shoot in Hawaii.”
I wouldn’t have been interested in any of the movies.
I also don’t think combining SG1/SGA with SGU would have worked because of the whole style of those series. SG1/SGA are just completely different than SGU. The SGU parts/characters would have been a foreign object in the movie. Or if they would have made the movie in an SGU style, they probably would have changed the personalities of the SG1/SGA characters again, like they did when they were guest stars in SGU. That is also not something I would have liked to see.
I am waiting for a complete reboot now, because I think the SG1/SGA/SGU universe is dead. I bet the next Stargate movie/series will start with humans discovering the Stargate on earth for the first time in the present. I guess it will take some years, maybe even decades, but I am sure it will happen.
psw | July 7 @ 1:49 pmI don’t understand why so much of my previous comment got moderated. I think it is a valid opinion, that the crossover movie would have never included all SG1/SGA characters. That would have been too many in addition to characters from SGU. I definitely would have missed some SG1/SGA characters.
And I simply don’t like the SGU characters, which makes their inclusion a negative aspect for me. They would have been an annoyance for me, something which makes the movie worse. They would have taken away screen time from the SG1/SGA characters, I am interested in.
I am sure I am not the only one, who don’t like all Stargate series. I bet there are a lot of people out there, who only like one or two Stargate series. Not every SGA fan likes the SG1 characters, not every SGU fan likes the SGA characters, and so on.
psw | July 7 @ 4:25 pmpsw said: “I am sure I am not the only one, who don’t like all Stargate series. I bet there are a lot of people out there, who only like one or two Stargate series. Not every SGA fan likes the SG1 characters, not every SGU fan likes the SGA characters, and so on.” —–
i’m one of those ppl that only really likes sg1, BUT, it’s this mindset that’s dividing fandom so much, and possibly making it *so* hard for the spyglass ptb to actually know what to do.
it’s like whatever spyglass does, someone(s) are going to not like it. doesn’t sound easier to just not do *anything*, and then wait a while and reboot?
i don’t like that idea at all, but i can see the logic in it, b/c we just can’t stop fighting for wanting our preferences over the others. (i’m very guilty of this too)
if i were in charge (knowing what i know), i’d make a combo mini series, focusing on sg1 and atlantis, but with a side dose of sgu. i’d have sg1 fighting the sgc program being revealed to the world, at the same time as atlantis trying to get back to the pegasus galaxy, only to discover a distress alert from destiny that they are in a desperate situation and need help.
it’s 3 stories in one, but enough time given to properly deal with each and it’s characters. it could be a 3 or 4 part mini series on syfy.
if everyone could just accept that there’s going to be things/characters they don’t want to see, and just focus on what they LIKE… we could just all win.
now all we need is spyglass and syfy to want to do this, getting all the actors to want to participate, and… i don’t know. :p
majorsal | July 7 @ 6:30 pm@btc909: It was never a BSG ripoff & you know it. You’re beating a dead horse with a non-existent imaginary stick.
Gaeth | July 7 @ 7:01 pm@orfeu When you say we don’t like sgu,you should say I don’t like sgu,because there’s a lot of ppl that like it..at least as much as the ones that don’t and most probably more.
Jim | July 8 @ 12:26 amAnd even among those who do not like it,there’s a minute,miniscule groupe of ppl like you who for some reason feel the need to offend and spue hate towards Brad Wright.Now I don’t know why that is,but it only shows that you were never real sg fans,cause stargate is HIS creation.And not only his..the entire crew of producers and most writers went on to SGU.
You could have probably watch the adventures of sg1 team till the sun stopped shining,but reality is things change.If you don’t like that fact..fine..that’s you.But if you feel the need to offend the man who brought you 15 seasons of what you supposedly like,you are just one lame,pathetic man.
And trust me,neither BW,nor any of those guys are out of job.
@majorsal I tend to agree with you.If just most of fans where like you,we would have the show now.I too like some of it more than others,but ultimately,I like all of it,cause I just like that world,universe.whatever.
Jim | July 8 @ 12:36 amBut there are ppl who when they don’t get exactly what they want,how and when they want it,start acting like someone ran over their cat.
They should be pittied,cause I can imagine them not functioning very well in real life either.
SGU was good but with those ratings i kinda felt sorry for MGM. The show was designed from the ground up to attract more viewers and a new breed of fans, it obviously couldn’t. SG-1 and SGA never had those kind of ambitions and were safe because of it.
Duneknight | July 8 @ 1:27 amand all you who bicker over sg1 sg atlantis, and universe get over it. we need to come together. don’t leave us hanging, it is a great show.
subverter | July 8 @ 2:15 am@Jim:
“it only shows that you were never real sg fans,cause stargate is HIS creation.And not only his..the entire crew of producers and most writers went on to SGU.”
Except the fans, they didn’t go over to SGU.
“because there’s a lot of ppl that like it..at least as much as the ones that don’t and most probably more.”
Of course there are. Where? Sales are poor, viewership was poor, the forum here at GW is dead already.
“And trust me,neither BW,nor any of those guys are out of job.”
Yet another statement without base, like that about those millions of fans which would buy that DVD movie.
“But if you feel the need to offend the man who brought you 15 seasons of what you supposedly like,you are just one lame,pathetic man.”
He was one guy in an entire collective who managed to destroy a good franchise and didn’t have the decency to admit his own limits and retire. he got paid very well for all those 15 years, do please stop with those attempts to make me look guilty.
orfeu | July 8 @ 3:56 amIt seems odd to me that there are people who could think it’s not Brad Wright’s fault that there is no longer Stargate on tv. It was his job to keep Stargate going. He failed. It is his fault. He is, by definition, the one responsible for it by his position. Whether or not people choose to hold animosity to him for it is another matter, but whether it’s his fault is undeniable. If you work for a company and it’s your job to ensure that you don’t run out of self-sealing stem bolts and the company runs out of them, it’s your fault. You failed to do your job. Even if they ran out because your supplier went under, it’s still your fault. Even if somehow they became completely unavailable in the world, it’s still your fault. There’s always reasons for everything, but they don’t change the situation. And if there’s no more self-sealing stem bolts and your job was based entirely around them, the outcome would be that you no longer have a job regardless of what those reasons were because you failed to do your job.
You can claim that the ratings system is bad but it’s the same ratings system he’s been working with through the entire run of the Stargate tv franchise (and the same system that has been around for decades). A system it was his job to know and understand and work within. There are still tv shows getting huge ratings. So there are people whom are capable of doing the job out there. Maybe it was harder in this situation than some, maybe it wasn’t. It doesn’t really matter. The bottom line is that he failed to come through.
He is responsible for SGA ending. It’s documented that he wouldn’t do 2 shows at the same time again and because Syfy wanted SGU (after being promised bigger ratings), SGA was sacrificed. Revisionists will try to claim otherwise but it’s just words. So he is responsible for SGA ending.
He’s a producer. So yes, he has a big ego. Read any interview with him and it’s pretty obvious. He also forgot the cardinal rule of television which is that the story is not yours, it’s the fans. You can self-publish a book. You can make an indie movie with your handycam from best buy. There’s no work-arounds for a television show. Television producer is a job. As a producer, you’re in the upper echelon of your little world of the show, but you still answer to a lot of people, including ultimately the fans. He failed at his job.
Whether or not people choose to have animosity towards him because he failed at his job is up to the person. It is a bit silly to have any real animosity towards him because it is ultimately just a tv show. But he shouldn’t automatically get a buy because of his earlier work. Whether SG1 and SGA makes up for his failure with SGU is up to the individual fan. Those who feel it does are entitled to their opinion and those who feel it does not are entitled to theirs. He failed the fans. His inability to take responsibility for it does lessen my image of him as a person. His blaming the fans rather than taking responsibility for it does lessen my image of him as a person. It is the easy route for him to blame others, but it was ultimately his responsibility. At the same time, I don’t expect my opinion of him to really affect anything. And while I would be slightly hesitant to follow his next project because of this, I wouldn’t rule out watching a show just because of his involvement.
mythos | July 8 @ 10:02 amif it werent for Brad stargate wouldve not even been a franchise. he kept going for 15 years, try to beat that.
Duneknight | July 8 @ 11:27 amWell said, mythos. I hold little animosity towards Brad as a person, but I certainly don’t hold him (and Rob Cooper) blameless for the end of the franchise.
Sylvia | July 8 @ 11:37 am@Duneknight – None of us have to try to beat that. We’re not tv producers. It’s not our job. It was his.
mythos | July 8 @ 11:47 am@Mythos:
I don’t have any animosity against BW, but I get annoyed when people say I own him something for those 15 years of entertainment. He got paid really well for them. He screwed up royally with SGU, he has a lot of merits for the franchises success, but he is also to blame for the its failures. I see SGU as totally his fault.
@Duneknight:
“if it werent for Brad stargate wouldve not even been a franchise. he kept going for 15 years, try to beat that.”
How do you know the franchise wouldn’t have been an even bigger success without him at the helm? Answer: you don’t. And I could also say it was the fans who kept the franchise going. We can see that from when they left SGU, which in spite of having “the entire crew of producers and most writers” from previous shows, tanked.
Let me say it again: “the entire crew of producers and most writers,” but not the FANS. It tanked.
And it was very expensive, did I mention very expensive?
orfeu | July 8 @ 12:19 pm@orfeu – And I think you have the right to see it as totally his fault.
mythos | July 8 @ 1:14 pm@orfeu I’f you respected facts,you’d be aware that most ppl here on GW liked SGU.Including the ppl who run the site.
Jim | July 8 @ 11:53 pmAnd please stop with the dvd sales,I’ve already explained..the sales of an already aired show are something completely different from a new movie,plus I clearly said movies..meaning sg1,atlantis and SGU.
And BW didn’t get the franchise in his hands and ruin it,it was his to beginn with.He had every right to to with it whatever he wanted,as lomg as network and studio approved..and guess what,they did approve.If you don’t like it,you don’t watch it..which is obviously what you did.
Still,the “poor” viewership had to do more with the network policy,cause the show was better than anything sci-fi on tv today.Also the viewing habits have changed,look at all the other shows struggling.But,yes,it is much easier to have just one simple thing,one man to blame,it’s much easier to look at the world as black and white than to turn on the brain.
@Jim:
“I’f you respected facts,you’d be aware that most ppl here on GW liked SGU.Including the ppl who run the site.”
the 40k registered users or the fifty active users plus the site owners? Huge fan base …
And please stop with the dvd sales,I’ve already explained..the sales of an already aired show are something completely different from a new movie,plus I clearly said movies..meaning sg1,atlantis and SGU.”
Of course the sales are different. I mean look at the sales of already aired shows, SGA, SG1, True Blood. Awful. Oh, wait, no, those were pretyy good, True Blood is huge hit actually. For some reason you said that a SGU movie would have amazing sales. And no, you didn’t say anything about SGA and SG1 movies.
“Still,the “poor” viewership had to do more with the network policy,cause the show was better than anything sci-fi on tv today.Also the viewing habits have changed,look at all the other shows struggling.”
And look at the other shows which do great. All the recent scifi was really bad, even Fringe had a bad season. It is not the habbits that changed, it is the shows, they are bad.
orfeu | July 9 @ 12:37 amFor those saying Stargate is probably going to be sold, I bet it is all ready being worked out. The original owners will buy it and make millions off of big budget movies and start over. Hopefully the don’t forget the fans and keep some of the mythology ( the ancients, the Asgard, the Nox …) and they just start over. I would be fine with that. Its better then not having Stargate.
blistna | July 9 @ 12:26 pmAs others have already said here on GateWorld:
I, too, will always give Brad many kudos for a well-earned place among the Keepers of Stargate past and present. A decade and a half of keeping a fictional universe afloat in a crowded TV marketplace is a stunning feat of creative ambidexterity, indeed.
But…
…Even the most skilled circus juggler will honestly know when their ambidextrous talents have eroded to the point where those same talents are not worthy enough to be shown to his/her paying public. And iffen they DON’T, then those in that paying public will remind the performer of this by way of an ever-shrinking gate purse.
Brad’s time a the top of the SG game began waning a long time ago— he even said as much, when he quipped about his desire to pen a different style of SG than what was already successful beforehand— but his ego left him out in the battle ring of TV producers for far longer than he should’ve been… and it showed. Painfully.
It *is* his fault, people. He- as well as others who’re trying to deflect blame for the showrunner of a successful media franchise with such a high position as his- has to own up to the fact that it is ultimately his responsibility for the unsuccessful course of action taken here in the case of SGU. I’m sure he meant well; but what you’ve *meant* to do, and what you *did* do, sometimes do not match up in the execution department, and a good, honest leader has to take ownership of such an endeavor.
It’s time for new leadership IMHO, and I’m thinking Spyglass must’ve arrived at the same conclusion as well.
Perchance they’ll be a bit warmer to a new set of runners with a new set of Stargate ideas..?
(I mean, Atlantis on the moon with a ticking time bomb because it arrived in the Milky Way..? Say WHAT?? **easy, ulp, breakfast… easy**)
medegno51 | July 9 @ 10:06 pmThis is old, forget Stargate, it’s dead. Move on, I loved the show, it gave me everything, but it’s dead and gone. Many of us foreigners watched SGU, even if we didn’t agree with the original concept. And that didn’t matter. It seems, if you’re not in the United States, or have a Neilson box, then your views matter not. MGM Spitglass, whomever, they see how simple fan made bits of fluff make it online, and has the support of so many people, that the posters on Youtube makes cash from advertisements—they don’t care though. Our franchise is dead and gone because Hollywood, and Hollywood minded idiots, holds the keys and the locks. When I do a series, it’ll be streamed online, Frak TV, Frak Neilson, Frak Hollywood; do your stuff with no one in between, and do what Alan Moore said; “Things made cheaper, seems to be better done.” What you can’t do, learn to do; special effects, etc, forget Hollywood, do your own thing. Jack, Teal’c Daniel, Sam, Shepherd, Mckay, they’re all dead now, move on.
Coremae | July 10 @ 11:05 am@orfeu You show remarkable abillity of quoting ppl,but you don’t understand anything.For example Fringe is on Fox and True Blood is better than all three stargate shows put together!
Jim | July 10 @ 1:31 pmAnd I have mentioned stargate movies,few still opened threads that should be finished.That is plural and it means more than just SGU movie.Sorry if that’s too hard on your brain,but hey at least your quoting is ok.
Quote away,lol!
@orfeu Oh and I guess Fringe is also too bad for you..not enough guns and explosions,too much to think.
Jim | July 10 @ 1:39 pmNo wonder we live in idiocraty.Caprica was another perfect example of that.
Thank God USA has New York and California if you know what I mean.
@Jim:
OK, I’ll quote you about the movies. Plural. All about SGU:
“What’s most amazing to me is how on earth can it be that they are not willing,interested in making at least one stargate movie,if not two,just one to finish the SGU story,considering the fact that it is the second most lucrative,second strongest franchise after James Bond!?”
So you were using plural. For SGU.
I know True Blood is on HBO, Fringe on Fox. I don’t understand your point. I was saying that there are shows which are good, very good, like SGA, SG1, True Blood, which sell a lot of DVDs, even if those episodes were already aired. Also there are shows with a lot of viewership, although the people changed their habits, as you say. The only thing that changed was SG and for the worst, as a result it was cancelled and all the people involved in it were fired.
Caprica was also a bad show. It got pulled of the air because it was bad. The DVDs sold also poorly. SyFy lost a lot viewers while airing SGU and Caprica.
orfeu | July 10 @ 3:05 pmIt’s amusing to watch people defend the popularity of SGU even now. Popular shows sell dvd’s. Doesn’t matter if they aired recently or not. SGU just wasn’t popular. I actually liked the latter episodes of SGU and wanted it to be continued – but if I were the person calling the shots, I’d have axed it too. It wasn’t producing. Ratings were low (doesn’t matter in the least whether you think they’re accurate or not, it’s what’s used). Media sales were low (guess they’re rigged too?). It costs a fortune to make and just wasn’t getting the numbers. If I were one of the execs responsible for deciding for the show, I would have cancelled it after the first season when the numbers were already disappointing for a show that was promised to bring bigger ratings than it’s predecessor.
Cannes is full of films every year that very few will ever see. Often critically acclaimed but also often completely lacking appeal for the masses. If you want to win awards, indie films are a much better way to go than television. And television producers should know this. It’s their job.
mythos | July 10 @ 7:23 pm@mythos: That’s the long and short of it. SGU was a big expensive experiment. To me the first season was just awful. It was an excercise in watching paint dry. They simply took too long bringing out the bridge taking control and reveal the ship’s mission. The episodes did get better from what I hear the second season was better but that’s not reason for continue seasons. Execs can’t afford to be fans.
Saquist | July 11 @ 3:00 amSyFy did not want it to work. SyFy already had there mind set by the end of the first season on cancelling SGU. If SyFy had Lost it would not made it past the second season. They had there mind set no matter what the ratings were for season 2. Till this day I have not seen ratings for season 2 and every time someone brings it up to Craig Engler he avoids it. So if you were an Exec I think you would be watching the numbers for season 2. I think it did good I dont know for sure I might be wrong who knows. Does anyone know?
bringbackatlantisfools | July 11 @ 10:23 am@bringbackatlantisfools – Of course Syfy had their minds set by the end of the first season. The show they had dumped tens of millions of dollars into on promises of big ratings was failing. Badly. If the show would have managed to bring in bigger numbers on the second season, they would have kept it, though. Syfy doesn’t hate science fiction. They hate expensive shows with low ratings. As for ratings for season 2…you seriously haven’t seen them? They’ve been posted on here many times. Look back through the feeds. They were low. Very low.
mythos | July 11 @ 11:35 am@bringbackatlantisfools:
“Till this day I have not seen ratings for season 2 and every time someone brings it up to Craig Engler he avoids it. So if you were an Exec I think you would be watching the numbers for season 2.”
The ratings for season 2 were heavily discussed here for almost every episode. They were worst than the ones from season one and many episodes had bellow 1 million viewers, half of them I think.
orfeu | July 11 @ 11:38 am@orfeu My point was how bad SyFy is and how it’s mostly their fault.HBO always were masters at their job and nowdays even Fox is doing a good job.That’s something SyFy is never gonna get even close to.
Jim | July 11 @ 1:14 pmYou can’t seriously tell me when you look at the new SyFy’s programme that BW is the one who ruined Stargate.MGM and their financial troubles are another matter.But if SGU was such a disaster,why aren’t they making anything else stargate..sg1,atlantis.Atlantis taht was canceled by the network,cause they wanted more viewers to compete with big networks.What they got is flop and what we got is nothing,whatever stargate show you prefere.
Brad Wright is a typical example of an escape goat for everything that went wrong..and why?Because ppl buy that as proven by your views.
Nobody is saying SGU was popular,it’s just that many of us think it was good.And the point of this thread basically was why not give such loyal fans of the entire franchise closure with two.or three movies to close up the stories.
Jim | July 11 @ 1:26 pmThose movies wouldn’t bring huge profit,but they would bring some profit and considering that,I believe they owe it to fans who’d been sustaining the franchise for 15 years and 17 seasons to shoot those few films.If not sg1,then definitely Atlantis and SGU..with the old cast and before they put the entire thing on ice for another decade!
@Jim (et al):
We have heard you. And as SG fans, most of us agree with all of your heart-felt opinions about some sort of closure…
But we’re also a’tryin’ very hard to get some of you to understand the *business* (read: not so fannish) side of this thang called Tee-Vee, mein freund.
It didn’t get the numbers. BW and his gang didn’t deliver the demos in the numbers promised to the execs. And, according to Huffman above, the incoming chiefs aren’t exactly warm themselves of sending good money after bad in a current sci-fi take that failed.
Now, you and I may disagree with such actions and sentiments on their parts; but they are the ones with the checkbooks AND the shareholder clout to make such decisions.
medegno51 | July 12 @ 1:35 amOMG all of this IS about business..BAD bussines!
And business side of things is NOT the responsibillity of creatives.
And just try to imagine if every businessman out there,after one bad business move sat down with his head down and had an attitude;Ok,it’s all over,everything is gone,ruined,I may as well jump over a bridge.
We all understand,but is it really necessary that every time someone tries to show some support on a FAN site,the same three people have to try and impress everyone with their business,economic theories.
@medegno51 ..”not so fannish”…Newsflash dude,it is a fan site,not Financial Times..we get it..money,numbers,ratings,blah,blah…But somehow I don’t think guys put up this site to discuss economy..at least not as intensly as some would like to with their essays.What’s next..politics!?
Jim | July 12 @ 2:40 am@Jim:
“OMG all of this IS about business..BAD bussines! And business side of things is NOT the responsibillity of creatives.”
Yes, but the ones with the business finance the creatives, so unless those “artists” work for a charity, their work has to turn a profit. Any way, our artists from SGU got paid pretty well for a very bad work (SGU), so no need to petty them. BAD business was to finance SGU in the first place.
This is a fan site, where everything is discussed, including the financial aspect.
I would appreciate if you would make up your mind: the SGU movies would turn a (guaranteed) big or a small profit, if the fans are the ones who made this franchise great, or the producers, the fans owe the producers, or SyFy owes the fans. You are all over the map, it is very hard to follow your logic, if there is any.
orfeu | July 12 @ 6:52 am@orfeu If it is hard for you to follow my logic,that’s your problem,but it is in fact very simple.All you need to do is to actually read what people say,instead of thinking of a “smart” response ahead.First of all,why are you constantly talking about me mentioning some SGU movies.I said a movie..one last to finish the story.And one last Atlantis movie for the same reason.Sg1 doesn’t need it and the mix of all three that had been mentioned doesn’t seem as a good idea to me.That’s it,that’s all I meant.
SyFy is a dead horse and I don’t want to beat it anymore,but my point is that if a studio could make even minimal profit on making those movies and I believe it could..I think they should do it.Yes as a show of appretiation to fans who have stood behind them all those years.And then they could put it on ice and wait for someone else..meaning showrunners,cast..etc.to perhaps revive it some day if it’s gonna be possible.In that sense I do not believe it will,because as mythos,I believe said,even SGU was to much the same..and the industry wants new things.I may be wrong though.
Bad business was on the side of SyFy..that wanted something stargate,but that would also draw in younger audience,be darker and grittier like BSG cause that was the trend at the time.The thing is,you always wanna think ahead,not reproduce what’s trending at the moment..like what they’re doing now with reality shows.If you really mean business and not just overnight profit..wham,bam,thank you ma’m!
And finally artist’s work needs to turn the profit,but it’s someone else’s job to make that happen.By doing all those things that I’ve already mentioned right and by good marketing,by not shifting schedule that worked for a decade..summer-winter,to autumn-spring in an attempt,ludacrise attempt to compete with network tv,big players.Whay fix it,if it ain’t broken?Which is why ultimately all of it happened..change of air-time,bigger budget…It was a failed experiment,but not by BW,by SyFy.Yes he did want to try something different,but I’m sure his different wouldn’t have had to do much with what we’ve seen.I think we saw glimpses of what his and other producer’s idea initially was,but ultimatelly they had to adapt to network’s wishes.Think about it,all the episodes that ppl were most excited about were in fact Brad and company’s attempt to wiggle their way through the contract and make the best of it as much as they could.
I’m not saying that Brad is perfect and didn’t make mistakes,what I’m saying he isn’t the one man who singlehandedly ruined his own creation as some ppl in their frustration would like to think.And people are so fast to crucify and linch.And why..cause it’s much simpler to have someone specific and concrete to point out to as the one who’s guilty of everything,than think about the complexity of reasons.That’s just human nature..always has been.
Jim | July 12 @ 7:58 am@orfeu
“Yes, but the ones with the business finance the creatives, so unless those “artists” work for a charity, their work has to turn a profit. Any way, our artists from SGU got paid pretty well for a very bad work (SGU), so no need to petty them. BAD business was to finance SGU in the first place.”
Very well said. I have to say, I was absolutely speechless when Jim uttered that “and business side of things is NOT the responsibility of creatives” bowl of logical guano. The most successful and well-known “creatives” are by default very responsible on the business side of things. “Creatives” have to buy groceries, too…
medegno51 | July 12 @ 9:47 am@Jim:
“By doing all those things that I’ve already mentioned right and by good marketing,by not shifting schedule that worked for a decade..summer-winter,to autumn-spring in an attempt,ludacrise attempt to compete with network tv,big players.”
The best marketing can not sell a bad product. Once the product hits the market, it has to stand on its own. You can flood the streets with commercials, if the people know the product is bad, they wont buy. Also SGU was already going down on Friday. The DVD sales were bad, people weren’t interested in it.
“Whay fix it,if it ain’t broken?”
Good question. Maybe the creators of SGU could answer that.
“Which is why ultimately all of it happened..change of air-time,bigger budget…It was a failed experiment,but not by BW,by SyFy.Yes he did want to try something different,but I’m sure his different wouldn’t have had to do much with what we’ve seen.I think we saw glimpses of what his and other producer’s idea initially was,but ultimatelly they had to adapt to network’s wishes.”
Dod you have any proof of that? Of course, you are sure, should we just trust you, with all the good reasoning you have displayed so far?
orfeu | July 12 @ 2:10 pm@orfeu Should we trust you?What’s your reasoning..constant repeating of wrong facts and constant insisting on DVD sales,something that’s been irrelevanr for two years at least..And the best marketing CAN sell a bad product..you’ve obviously never worked in marketing.
Falling Skies is a perfect example..very poor show with high ratings.
Are you really blind to SyFy programming.Maybe instead of repeating what I’ve said,you could try and say something meaningful of your own.
Another,opposite example would be Firefly..an amazing show with piss poor marketing,shifting air time that got canceled after only 13 episodes.
Now come on go on with your dvd sales and so called arguments..I’m done waisting my time with you.tankfully,there are enough reasonable people on this site.
Jim | July 12 @ 5:56 pm@Jim:
DVD sales are not relevant? For the last two years? Oh, I get it, SGU sold badly, so, you know, they are irrelevant.
Good marketing can sell a product. Once, maybe, maybe twice. You know, fool me once … In the case of SGU the best marketing could not help. It was just a bad show.
“Maybe instead of repeating what I’ve said,you could try and say something meaningful of your own.”
Maybe instead of making up facts, you should make sense. The reason I quote you is because I don’t want people to think I’m making stuff up.
“Another,opposite example would be Firefly..an amazing show with piss poor marketing,shifting air time that got canceled after only 13 episodes.”
Firefly has a fanatical fanbase, it was poorly treated, but it did get a lot of marketing.
“Falling Skies is a perfect example..very poor show with high ratings.”
Falling Skies doesn’t have high ratings. They have Spirlberg behind, but the ratings are not that great. People are still waiting. Season two will probably be its last if something doesn’t change quick. They already aired three episodes out of ten and the ratings are steady. This is not good, a bad episode, as was Life for SGU, could damage the show a lot. Also a good one … The jury is still out on this one.
“Now come on go on with your dvd sales and so called arguments..I’m done waisting my time with you.tankfully,there are enough reasonable people on this site.”
For your information it is the DVD sales which brought some closure to Firefly. Because those were good someone invested in that movie, Serenity (and lost money). Also the same thing saved Futurama and Family Guy. And what is wrong with my so called arguments? The fact that you cannot refute them and look sane at the same time?
orfeu | July 13 @ 2:00 am@orfeu Yes 6 mill viewers for a cable show is not good ratings!?Are you all right,do you feel fine? And dvd market has been dead for two years,everyone from planet Earth,you don’t have to be from the US,knows that!Goo back to school,cause by making a statement that Firefly had a good marketing you’ve revealed yourself and your age..finish High School first,lol!
Jim | July 13 @ 3:28 am@Jim:
6 millions for the premiere. It dropped in the second episode and didn’t gain anything in the third, although True Blood recovered.
Brad Wright said the DVD market took a beating. But if you look at http://www.the-numbers.com, you will that good products still sell well. Maybe when he said that, it was true, but not anymore.
orfeu | July 13 @ 4:04 am@orfeu:
“For your information it is the DVD sales which brought some closure to Firefly. Because those were good someone invested in that movie, Serenity (and lost money). Also the same thing saved Futurama and Family Guy. And what is wrong with my so called arguments? The fact that you cannot refute them and look sane at the same time?”
I cannot recall who the particular poster was about two months ago when this was said (maybe it was you, as well then), but I did remember someone pointing out this exact same Firefly example to others like the very one you’re current engaged in conversation with. The argument makes, equally, just as much sense NOW as it did back then.
Firefly had a very good tailwind of fan support to fall back on (despite its disrespectful treatment from the network suits– something all fans/posters can agree on). It also had a very impressive and cohesive fan base, which made the DVD possibility- while indeed a bit risky for the studios- a better chance at succeeding there when other shows of a similar vein would not (and did not) have.
I also have to take this opportunity to humbly apologize to the posters and mods here at GateWorld while, at the same time, responding to your post. I had a few posts mod-ed here in the past few days (in hindsight, for acceptable reasons) for conversing with the same individual you yourself, orfeu, has been trying to reason with these past few posts. I’m not going to try to entertain engagement with that individual again.
@mythos:
“If the show would have managed to bring in bigger numbers on the second season, they would have kept it, though. Syfy doesn’t hate science fiction. They hate expensive shows with low ratings. As for ratings for season 2…you seriously haven’t seen them? They’ve been posted on here many times. Look back through the feeds. They were low. Very low.”
Exactly your point (and others here): These numbers and info on SGU’s continuing problems as it headed towards extinction has been posted here many times for all to see… but as is often the case, there are those that will not open their eyes past their own passions to see such truths. Sad, indeed…
medegno51 | July 13 @ 10:16 amWhat I don’t understand is that SyFy channel can come up with the money for all these moves, Almighty Thor, Battle of Los Angeles, Beyond Lochness that don’t get the greatest viewership but a TV show that has lasted them 15 year of profit, still making money in syndication, and they can’t say “We’ll give you 2 or 3 movies to finish everything. Close Universe, then do something that will wrap everything up!!!” For those movies they would get the big numbers they are looking for!!! I thought Season 1 of Universe was daytime soap in space, but the second season got better but fell off cause they little time to finish. Just my thoughts!!!
JoeyCT02 | July 13 @ 10:22 am@medegno51 – Careful…that sounds like actual logic…some don’t like that ’round these parts.
mythos | July 13 @ 12:21 pm@JoeyCT02 That is exactly right.Nobody’s asking for a series of movies,or a new stargate show,but not to give us 2 movies is plainly arrogant.Especially after as you said 15 years of bringing profit,syndication…They wouldn’t loose a dollar on it,would make some profit and the whole story could be put to rest.Forever,cause I honestly believe Stargate isn’t coming back,ever.Nor should it.
Jim | July 13 @ 4:08 pm@ Jim syfy didn’t have stargate for 15 years show time had it for the first 5 seasons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_SG-1 read that article
Eagalis | July 14 @ 10:58 am@JoeyCT02 – It doesn’t really work that way. Syfy rarely ever foots the bill for this stuff directly. The movies are produced by production companies which sometimes get some of the money for the movie from the channel. But that money is often mixed with the money of others. And as an investor on the movie, they can control the deal they make with the network itself and actually give themselves a better deal than if they were working on it outright. And then, make money on other distributions of the movie as well and have filler. Television stations need filler. Things they can show again and again that may not get big audiences, but get enough to count. Even a bad movie on syfy typically will get higher ratings than many episodes of SGU did. And they can show it again and again to rack up the numbers.
Why can’t they use this same model to produce Stargate movies? Because no one would want that. Would you really want a Stargate movie with special effects that look like they were crayoned directly onto the film? A bunch of ‘actors’ that they found from a mix of has-been 80′s personalities and whomever they could find at the denny’s nearby? I sure wouldn’t. And those who own the franchise wouldn’t either. It would devalue it too much. All it takes is for people to see one really bad syfy-movie level stargate movie and the syndication value would plummet.
mythos | July 14 @ 12:14 pm@mythos The point that I was trying to make is that is money out there. I believe when you have a series that lasted so long and has produced so much revenue, has such a loyal fan base it would be nice to wrap it up completely. They gave SG1 2 movies to finish the show that was losing numbers, then tied it into Stargate Atlantis, which had a final conclusion with back on earth. I would figure from a studio point of view, writers, actors and specially the fans that it would be nice to have closure. Finish the show with a ending, finale. Not a cliff hanger, those are for the cheesy horror movies. I also think the show should finish and the franchise laid to rest. I think the show just needs to end with a Big Bang!!! That could be a spoiler…LOL!!!
JoeyCT02 | July 14 @ 3:33 pm@Eagalis I never said SyFy connected with 15 years,read it again. It concerns studio and SyFy.
Jim | July 14 @ 3:49 pmAlthough SyFy had 12 seasons of stargate and it made there name.Without it,they would have never made BSG and…wait that’s it,nothing more worth mentioning.
And now studio and the network can’t come up with $20 mil…yeah right.
@JoeyCT02 – I’d like to see all of the Stargate movies made myself, but I also know why they’re not likely to do it. They take a risk in making these movies. A risk that could devalue their syndication revenue. It would have to make a lot of money to make up for that. They are probably raking in the cash on the syndication for 17 seasons of the shows. Even if they only made $1 million a year for each season of the show, which is likely only a fraction of what they make, that’s still $17 million a year for doing nothing. The are making more than the movies would make without even lifting a finger. But make a bad movie and risk cutting into that easy money. The movies would have a much better chance of being made if Stargate hadn’t done so well for so long.
mythos | July 14 @ 3:57 pm@mythos MGM has nothing to do with syndication,nobody wants to see Syfy made movie..god forbid!
Jim | July 14 @ 11:25 pm@Jim:
“MGM has nothing to do with syndication”
I knew that MGM was the one making money off syndication.
“nobody wants to see Syfy made movie..god forbid!”
The movie would not be made by SyFy, just like the series wasn’t made by SyFy.
orfeu | July 15 @ 4:59 am@orfeu Studio sells it’s product,including air rights to a network,in this case SyFy and then the network who by owning the air rights collects most of the profit from syndication(meaning renting their rights to other networks to air it).
And movie not being made by SyFy was my exact point.Like I said,finish the school first.
Jim | July 15 @ 9:20 amOf course there’s a lot more to all that but I simplified it as much as possible just for you @orfeu.
Jim | July 15 @ 9:29 amMythos could know the details and possibly enlight me about it,but not you,nor were I even adressing you! Give it up.
I’m not sure of the specifics of the deal between Syfy and MGM but it would be unusual for a studio to sell the show outright to a broadcaster. In all likelihood, Syfy only had original airing rights to the seasons of Stargate that it was the first to show. Any syndication deals would have most likely seen the money go to MGM. I think the only way Syfy would get any money is if another network in the US wanted to air an episode for which Syfy’s original airing rights have not yet expired.
mythos | July 18 @ 2:47 pm