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For Cryin’ Out Loud: You’ve Had Your Say

Friday - April 2, 2010

For Cryin' Out Loud - Jack ("Window of Opportunity")For Cryin’ Out Loud is GateWorld’s weekly editor’s column! If you have questions or suggestions about what you’d like us to talk about, e-mail the editors now.

Ch-ch-changes are in store for GateWorld.  Before I tell you what they are, let me give you a little personal bio that I hope gives you insight into why I’m doing this.

I started GateWorld when I was 23 years old, just married and living in a new city.  It was 1999, and I wanted to combine my love of Stargate SG-1 with my newest hobby and creative outlet, Web development.  And so a fan site was born that was truly a labor of love, occupying 10, 20, sometimes 30 or more hours per week.  It grew. I met people from all over the world. The site earned recognition from the production studio, and I even made some friends among the cast, the crew, and at MGM.  They let us maintain complete independence, recognizing that you can’t pay people to maintain a site like this.  It has to be a labor of love, and when it stops being fun … well, we wouldn’t really want to do it any more, no matter what we would lose.

It’s been ten and a half years now, and we’ve had some good times (and some great times) and some bad times.  We’ve witnessed feuding and bashing, splinters in fandom, and one or two near meltdowns.  But I made it through every time, because I still loved what I was doing.  Working on the site and creating new content was fun, and other fans seemed to appreciate that work.

Over the past couple of years, though, the hatred and factions that have crept up in Stargate fandom have started to take their toll on my love of this project.  I’m also a father of two and a full-time student now, and my “little” Stargate fan site has a different priority in life.  In January, something very private happened that nearly made me walk away.  Those days and weeks this winter when we went with no site updates?  Some of that wasn’t because it was a slow news week as much as because I didn’t want to do it any more.  But I still love Stargate, and I still have fun working on the site, and the friends that I’ve made here are still here.  So I didn’t pull the plug.

Now, I have a choice:  Give it up and try to regain my sanity in the real world, or make some serious changes to the way GateWorld does things.  Refocus on doing what I love doing on the site, and get rid of those elements that take away my joy.

So starting today, the seemingly endless cycle of Stargate Universe hatred posted by viewers at GateWorld comes to an end.  I think we’ve been way, way more than “fair” in giving those who despise the new incarnation of Stargate a place to have their say. GateWorld is first a fan site, and if you don’t like SGU, you shouldn’t post about it here.

As I wrote about a couple of months ago, my desire for GateWorld has always been to strike a balance between keeping it a fun place for fans of the show and also a place where everyone could have their voice heard.  That has not changed. Let’s put that right up front: No one is being asked to go away or told they can’t post here.  Instead, I’m asking you to post with this Community Vision statement in mind, and I’m giving fair warning that we’ll be much stricter in how it is applied.

GateWorld exists as a place for fans all over the world to enhance their enjoyment of the Stargate franchise by sharing it with others. Our vision for this forum is that it will be an open and welcoming place for the enjoyment of Stargate and science fiction, a place free of hostility where we communicate and build friendships, and a home that is open to challenging discussions. While we affirm everyone’s right to critique things they do not like, we ask that such comments be made with tact and respect for others. Our site may be large, but it is our home, and we want to focus our time talking about the things we enjoy about our favorite shows.

This has always been present on the comment rules page.  It’s just been ignored by those who have, in many cases, deliberately targeted our site and pushed the envelope as far as possible … to see what they could get away with.  They took advantage of my commitment to free speech, in other words, in an attempt to make our site a living hell for those of us who love SGU.  No more.

We rolled out the Community Vision statement at GateWorld and GateWorld Forum last year, after Stargate Atlantis‘s final episode had aired and angry fans had been given time to vent and to mourn the loss of a great series.  We applied it with a light touch at first, then with increasing firmness at the forum.  Here on the news threads, it’s been much easier to get away with bashing SGU because I wanted to let everyone actually see the new show and have their say on it.  Watch the pilot.  Watch the first half of the season.  Spend the mid-season break reflecting on it.

That time has now passed, and those who have made up their mind to hate the show and all it stands for have had their say.  It’s time to move on.

What does this mean, practically?

  • Not every news story will have a comment thread. In those cases we encourage you to post your thoughts at GateWorld Forum instead.
  • The forum has been restructured a bit, making the Universe, Atlantis, and SG-1 sections larger and more self-contained sub-forums.  Fans who love SGU should have a place to go where the discussion is utterly free of hatred of the show.  Not critique, mind you — hatred.  Fans who love the other shows, meanwhile, will have a self-contained place to enjoy what they love about Stargate, without feeling compelled to trash something another fan likes.
  • If you want to critique the show here on the news threads, you may do so with tact and respect for the cast, crew, and fans who are enjoying it.   If there is a whiff of disrespect, that you are pushing my patience and our community standards to see how far I’ll bend in the name of free expression, our moderators will be quicker on the Delete button.
  • When a discussion thread shows vigorous and profitable give-and-take debate, within our posting guidelines, we’ll encourage it.  When it devolves into bickering between the same old members, the thread will be closed.
  • If the moderators are convinced you are just trying to cause trouble, your posting rights will be suspended or, in extreme cases only, you will be banned from commenting.  (In some cases we’ll try to communicate with you by e-mail, so don’t use a dummy account you never read and then be surprised that you wind up banned.) There are plenty of places on the Internet to sow relentless hatred for a television series.  This is not one of them.
  • If our community standards are too strict to let you say what you want to say (and what you want to say over, and over, and over again), our site is not the best place for you.  There are other sites where you can find like-minded people and enjoy yourself without dragging us down.

Let me add that I’ve read a lot of very measured, thoughtful, and respectful criticisms of Stargate Universe here in recent months.  Those members have my personal thanks for expressing their concerns in the right way.  That’s also what I’ve tried to do on the podcast, because as much as I love the show I don’t think every episode is the pure gold standard.  I hope those thoughtful critiques, which measure up to our community standards, continue to be posted.  There is a noticable difference between a fan who has a critique to voice and a “hater,” one who has firmly made up his mind about the series and posts primarily to disrupt and to spread that hatred.  This change targets only the latter.

I’m aware that this won’t be a popular decision, that for some it will only fuel the fires of their hatred.  But it’s in the best interests of this site and my sanity.  Right now, it’s the only way GateWorld can continue to exist.  If it’s not fun for the people doing the work and keeping it online, it will be gone.

Respect, or free expression? Stargate fandom has become so fractured and vitriolic over the past two years (even before SGU!) that, unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that I’ve been forced to choose between them.  We try to maintain both, but the balance of the scale inevitably tips one way.  We either let the haters run roughshod over our site and continue to trash our reputation and despoil our community, all while laughing over what they got away with, or we have to start restricting people’s ability to say absolutely anything they want, as often as they want.

We reached a point where I didn’t like coming to my own site, and I didn’t like that feeling.  GateWorld is about opening the doors to all Stargate fans, no matter their opinion — but even more than that, it’s about enjoying Stargate.  I, for one, want to enjoy it again.




ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Darren created GateWorld in 1999, and today is the owner and managing editor. He lives in the Seattle area with his wife and three children. (More)


COMMENTS (169):Rules | Report Comment | Trackback

  • Thank you! I agree 100%. Lets get back to watching and enjoying Stargate. I love SG1 while my son can not stand it. He loves SGU with a passion while I am still waiting for… But we still behave like family and respect each other’s opinion.
    Gateworld is not a democracy. It is your creation and those of us who visit the site and listen to your podcast will be happy to follow where your heart and head lead you.

  • I think this is a great move, if people dislike SGU we’ve heard what they have to say 100’s of times over by now, the negativity keeps some fans away (myself included, seldom if ever visit the forums) so i think these steps are positive ones

  • Hey Darren, 1st let me say Thankyou for this awesome site, I visit it all the time, it’s the only site i use for all my Stargate news.
    2nd I don’t understand why the haters are even here, have they got nothing better to do. I never visit the forums anymore because i am sick of the complaining.
    I love all of the Stargate shows.
    Thanks again : )

  • Thanks for doing this. People too often feel a sense of anominity when on the internet.

    I hope people respect this decision.

    The part I don’t understand is, if you hate SGU that much why would you watch it, continue to comment on it, why……….

    Thanks again, we don’t want to lose you or the site.

  • And I think you need to step back and ask yourself is it the fans or the product that TPTB all but ordered us to watch that is causing the problem.

  • You changed me Darren, i will now post only good things about SGU.

    The first thing I like about SGU and this site is that its Stargate. Stargate is a great franchise, its so good to have more Stargate.
    SGU is a great show because it has great actors playing characters and nobody can say anything bad about that. I also like the FTL.

    This site has finally taken a step forward to unite The Fandom. Darren shows us tough love by splitting the fandom, but in the end it will save his site and by that it will save his fandom.

    I encourage you, Darren, to further expand your policies, it will make this site a better place.

  • Oh and btw, for anyone else that still wants to talk openly about SGU, theres still SGU°S, you know where to find us.

  • Fantastic move and exactly what I have wanted to happen: to have critiques not haters. Seriously strikes a blow to those trolls who are sad enough to do whatever they can to get SGU cancelled.

  • I also agree 100%. If you don’t like SGU then don’t watch, find another show to watch and hassle them Not GateWorld. Keep up the great work.

  • After reading that I must confess that I have truly repented and will try my best to be constructive in my comments in future about the show. The error of my ways has been shown to me and I feel suitably chastised.

  • Like not watching stargate universe Is going to help when

    A. IT is the only new stargate on TV.

    B there is not much else like stargate on TV that is new or like stargate.

    c. The other shows that might be like stargate are not as good and do not last that long.

    You are stuck with stargate universe it is the only thing in town.

    It’s not like I can watch star trek on Tv anymore or something it is all reruns so that don’t watch only helps give stargate universe bad ratings not pleasure people who want to watch new stargate that do not like universe./

  • I understand your feelings 100%. But you shouldn’t take this too heavily, simply make a rule that hating posts which can harass those who love are not allowed.

    I’m one of the haters, and I apologize. The reason many people comes to these forums boasting in flames is that this is the largest community in stargate world and they want scifi to hear their cry for redemption. Understand that stargate is so long brand that it has not only fans.. but also cults of fans.

    It is like they were protecting their “children” from harm such as the changes in SGU are taking place (in their opinion) and so they come here with all their flamethrowers ready to burn the unbelievers.

    I hope you understand, keep the good work up!

  • David,

    I can only guess on the emotional toll it took on you to post this. I have always felt thankful that this site was here. Thank you David. Not all fandoms have a source like this and people seem to forget that this is (or should be) a labor of love. For my family this is the first place we go to for info, whether it is for news, analysis of episodes and characters, screen caps, or have a place to mingle with like-minded people. I have a family of five and we all have a different focus for our love (and dislike) for Stargate. We are a passionate bunch that loves to discuss and debate everything but debate doesn’t mean bash. We all have different character we love and hate and have different way we explore the fandom. For example, I go to as many Cons as I can, my hubby doesn’t go to Cons at all. But we all get along. As for negative people on this site, I have never understood why they expend all the time. There are shows (yes, there is a world outside of Stargate) that I hate to watch, so I don’t and I don’t waste the time to post about it.

    There is plenty of room here for the SG-1’ers and the Atlantis’ers. Welcome SGU’ers. Come and play. If you do not like SGU, go play somewhere else, stay in the other areas for SG-1 or Atlantis.

    I am not a writer, so I hope that this is conveying what I mean. Simply put, thank you David, I appreciate all you have done here and hope you continue and the it give you pleasure.

    Slam

  • I don’t have any problem with what you’re doing here. The haters are really a drag. It’s not just on GateWorld. I frequent trekmovie.com and the haters also post their vile ridden commentary on SGU related posts over there. Most recently this week. It’s such a turn off. No other show seems to garner such hatred. It ruins it for the those of us that are fans of the show and I’m sure it taints the waters for prospective fans. To some extent I do blame the producers of the show for how they handled things in the initial stages. They managed to alienate a large portion of the fan base. Be that as it may it has gone on far too long, so I’m in complete agreement with your decision.

  • Darren, you and David have given us, the fans, a great gift in this wonderful sight. When I turn on my computer it’s the first place I go. In fact, it is the only place I obtain my daily Stargate “fix.

    (EryasDax, nodding and applauding in a group standing ovation.)

  • There are haters and also PPL like me that dont like what happens to good SciFi Shows/Movies. (Or brought SyFy anything good out accept Tin Man in the last Years?

    Look why JMS will no longer make any B5 Storys and so on.

    Some just hate and some want just a damm good SPACE OPERA and sadly to Say at the Moment there is no GOOD SciFi show.

    Goodby that was my last posting here.

  • Darren, thanks for all your hard and great work. We certainly want to keep you sane. I wouldn’t know what to do without Gateworld. I also love well-written (typo-free) articles and well-structured and thought out comments from fans. I also love the podcasts – they are very interesting and well produced, and when they are a minute late I get a bit anxious :)

    Hope comments on article will still be possible – I find it much easier to read those than going to the forum, where I don’t find my way around at all.

  • Darren,

    This..was a mistake. As someone whom works in your hobby professionally, I can say with some certainty that you’ll end up regretting this. Not the action, but the posting of it. Change like this is best made quietly. Those whom were reprimanded in some way for speaking out against SGU already believed they were being chastised unfairly for speaking their mind. This will just add fuel to their fire. And now, anyone whom feels slighted for not praising SGU will preach of the ‘evil censorship of gateworld’. This isn’t a pro or con message, just a prediction from someone whom has been there.

    That aside, I also think that this message is very vague on what is acceptable. Criticism is negative. There’s not really any such thing as positive criticism. There is constructive criticism but it’s still negative. By not clarifying what exactly is allowed, you leave it open.

    In the end, you can’t run a totalitarian system and then claim you believe in free speech. You may believe in the idea of free speech, but you don’t practice it here by what you’ve said above. It doesn’t exist in a totalitarian system. And saying you believe in it doesn’t change that. Most whom haven’t lived in a totalitarian system don’t truly understand the value of free speech. If you had ever had someone you knew executed for simply saying what they thought, you’d have a different view on things. Promoting more use of the delete button isn’t the key to fixing things. If you want to make things better, don’t delete messages. Tell people why their message is bad and not to do it again publicly. If a criminal justice system only told the person who committed a crime that it was a crime and never let anyone else know, the crime would just be committed over and over again. And if the mods are worried about defending their actions, then perhaps you need new mods as if they can’t defend their actions then perhaps they should rethink them. I’ve been there, I’ve done that and I’ve never had a problem with defending myself. People will respond much better if they can see why something said was bad. Sure, there will be some who will fight against it, but at least then they’ll know they crossed the line and others will have seen where the line is. Eventually, people will learn where the boundaries are and adapt. Sometimes why a post is bad is obvious, but if people don’t see the original message, they’re much more inclined to think that it probably wasn’t. Repression is a tactic that always ultimately fails because people will only stand for it for so long. Granted, it may work up until a time when there is no Stargate left (hopefully a long time off) but if it doesn’t, what you’ve seen on Gateworld pales in comparison to other sites that I’ve seen torn to shreds in virtual holy wars. The problem with running a fan site is that fans are often very devoted. And in reality, the resources aren’t available to stop even one overzealous fan from taking down a whole site. I’ve never seen indication of such extent on here yet, but that doesn’t mean the potential’s not there.

    I won’t deny that I am an SGU hater. So far, I’ve hated it. Why do I still watch it? It’s only half a season in and there’s promise of changes coming. I can always hope they’ve realized the error of their ways and will change it in a positive way. Maybe they’ll even find a way to make both camps happy. It’s not impossible. Does any of this devalue my opinion? I would say not. I don’t ‘troll’. I respond to posts and keep to the topic at hand. I always try to defend my positions and always try to respond to anyone who responds to what I say. I am a believer that if I can’t defend my position, then my position is likely wrong. Obviously, others may not always agree. But I won’t just say something and then not try to defend it. So because I haven’t really liked SGU at all and would even go as far as to say that I’ve hated it so far, does that mean I should leave Gateworld? Here’s a chance to directly set a boundary. Ask me to leave because I hate SGU, and I will and you’ll have set a precedence for others to follow. I’m relatively sure you won’t ask me to leave over this, but I’m also trying to prove the point of how public knowledge of such things can help lead the site to more peaceful times.

    So if you’ve actually taken the time to read all of this (or at least skimmed to the bottom), I will say that Gateworld has been mostly a great site over the years and I hope it can continue to be and that Stargate does continue to live on (just because I don’t like it’s current incarnation and do hope that enough bad happens to where they realize what I view as a mistake on their part, it doesn’t mean that I want it to end, just that I want it to be better).

  • I can’t believe that I typed David not Darren in my comment. (I need more sleep.) I am such a bonehead.

    Darren, thank you.

    David, thank you also.

    *Slinking back to my lurking place.*

    Slam

  • I don’t see how anyone could have a problem with this. IMO a post that isn’t respectful, logical and well reasoned in it’s opinions isn’t worth reading anyway. I’d much rather hear the reasoning and ideas behind someone’s opinions than just “omg SGU suxx” or whatever.

    I don’t know if anyone noticed, but the first half of SG-1’s first season wasn’t that good. Well, no, I take that back, I actually enjoyed every single one of those episodes, what I mean is that, they don’t really fit in with what SG-1 became. Shape-shifting crystal people? Goa’uld nanites? Off-world Mongols? Would any of this really have fit in in say, Season 5?

    I guess what I’m getting at is, just because the first 10 episodes of SGU might not have been super-special-awesome, doesn’t mean it isn’t worth watching. They’re finding their footing. Would you prefer that, or a show like Heroes, which IMO had a fantastic first season then gasped and wheezed on life support for three years afterwards? I’d rather have cautious optimism for SGU’s future, having gotten to know the characters some, than be wowed by a fantastic first year and then be continually let down for years after. Not that a fantastic first year would automatically guarantee that, but still. There’s been no waterskiing or shark tanks in sight. People need to give it time, and if they can’t, then I don’t see why they’d still be bothering with it at all.

  • Wow. In all my years on the internet, this is the first time I’ve ever seen a fan site owner pushed to this point. And I’ve never seen the level of hatred and bitterness among (some) fans that we’re seeing now (and I’ve seen a LOT of that before, so that is saying something).

    I can totally understand where Darren is coming from, though. Because I feel pretty much the same way. I used to be one of the top posters on the GW forums back in the day. The last couple of years, that’s been reduced to occasional lurking (and very rarely posting) because every time I did all I saw was the hate and the bitterness. That REALLY ruined my enjoyment of interacting with other fans to the point where I considered burning all bridges and leaving for good.

    So I see Darren’s decision here as an unfortunate necessity. Maybe now GateWorld will be fun again.

  • You have not seen wars until you get the video game console wars.

    Or worse console vs PC. The stuff on this web site is tame compared to that, So i do not see what the big deal is.

    Of course the people running the video game websites get paid for it.

  • Darren

    mythos, thanks for this response. In terms of fueling the fire and giving people grounds to complain of censorship, that ship sailed long ago. It’s nothing new. We’ve been the target of such attacks for years, and my public commitment to free speech didn’t seem to help one bit. Many were grateful that they could post the criticisms they did; but most were downright entertained by seeing what they could get away with. The free speech they were granted in this forum, in other words, was being spat upon for laughs.

    Public boundary-drawing is helpful to a point — which is why we have rules that are articulated more elaborately than some sites, and why the mods frequently explain privately to posters why certain actions are being taken. Leaving violations public and condemned wouldn’t do it, though, since it fails to do what moderation is really about: removing offensive content from the site. And I’m sure some of our “problem posters” would get a big kick out of it. We also don’t talk publicly about mod actions because it can have the effect of shaming that member.

    Of course I have no desire for you or any other self-proclaimed SGU-hater to go away. You’re quite measured and engaging in your comment. The people are welcome insofar as they can conform to the standard by which we measure comments. Those who have made up their mind against SGU are welcome to post with tact and respect, but I really encourage them to avoid SGU items and post about things they do like, instead.

  • Darren, Nicely said. Love the site and hope you don’t lose your love for it and keep it going.

  • You will always attract many different kinds of people and attitudes and ways of behaviour when you deal with such a wide and varied audience. As much as I can understand your feelings I am disappointed in your attitude. Its the usual mantra that certain haters are the cause for all the dissatisfaction on the forums. I would agree that people can be too vocal and could voice their opinions in a more respectful way, but this is not just from those who dislike SGU but also from those fans that love it. The majority of posts I have seen here on GW home page have been very well thought out and respectful but yet the label of haters is always applied.

    Of course you get some who take things too far but it takes two to get into a argument and the usual comeback from many who like the show is equally as insulting but I don’t see any mention of this.

    I have seen topics on here that get very little response but as soon as someone voices any criticism then its inundated with pro SGU fans attacking them. I rarely see one well thought out post as to why these fans like the show as they spend most of their time commenting on other posters who don’t.

    There are dozens of threads where fans who like SGU can go and I rarely see anyone post over and over again how they hate the show in these places. If they do they are quickly run out as imo no other opinions seem welcome in these threads. SGU has received criticism for a reason. Its taken stargate not only in a different direction but in a totally unrecognizalbe one, and when I say unrecognizable I mean that its a totally different formula to the previous shows, to what Stargate stood for.

    If you take all the lightheartedness out of Superman and make it darker and gloomier and totally changed the tone of the show then it wouldnt really be known as Superman, it would probably resemble more of the Batman genre. So keeping a “Stargate” and being based on a ship is not enough reason to say SGU is still Stargate.

    But overall its the characters that have disappointed so many fans and what changes the entire Stargate feel. But any criticism about them is ignored or worse still the comaparisons to previous characters and casts start. How much better the acting is, how more realistic the show is, how it appeals to a much wider audience, how the producers don’t need the older fans anyway, this is what has angered many of the fanbase.

    The rude and condensending attitude by the creaters of stargate, dissing their own fandom. The intervention of actors and their families attacking fans because they don’t like SGU. But this is all acceptable, they have a reason to be upset, but prevous fans have no reason to be it seems.

    They were made false promises, they were insulted and they had to listen to a stream of less then favourable comments about a show and Franchise they had followed for 15 years. But yet any discord or upset is firmly laid on the side of the fans.

    I’m not sure what you mean by criticism and bashing. How do you make a distinction. I would have thought rude and hateful comments from both sides should just get deleted. Back and forth childish posts should just be stopped but trying to ban criticism of SGU is counter productive.

    Those who have decided to stop watching have, and most have movied on. Many like myself don’t go near the SGU threads and only get drawn into the comments threads when we wish to respond to topics like the BW recent interview, mainly because I disagreed with a lot of it, or other topical issues that appear in these threads.

    I have heard all the excuses why the movies couldnt be made and how there was no money etc but yet they’re seems to be an endless supply for SGU. I have accepted that BW cancelled SGA because he wanted to do something different eventhough fans were happy with the existing show, but I wasn’t happy with how SGA was treated and how it seems impossible for the creators to once voice their thanks to the cast that helped bring them to where they are now.

    No effort was put into SGA, no new writers were called in, no exciting new loactions, no extra budget, nothing. So you can’t just dismiss all these concerns and expect fans to thank the producers for cancelling their show because they couldnt be bothered with it, then attacking fans because they didnt embrace a show they didnt want.

    But at the end of the day SGU receives so much criticism for a reason. Its not just here at GW its on most of the boards that discuses the show, its from well known critics and its because SGU just doesnt appeal to many of the existing fanbase. You only have to look at all the threads here at GW and its the same dozen or so that frequent the SGU threads. Where are all the other fans. Most have moved on and its only a tiny minority that continue to hate what SGU stands for and voice that opinion.

    GW has had outspoken fans on here for years and the negative attitude was encouraged at one stage. I find it strange that SGU is considerd more real/realistic than previous shows BECAUSE of all the angry outbursts and the flawed characters, but yet when we have it happen here in real life its not welcomed. I can understand it being upsetting and thats one of the reasons why I dislike SGU, I want to be entertained. I have no interest in nasty selfish self absorbed people screaming at each other, or wondering who is back stabbing whome. I can see how the confrontations on here can be upsetting and exhausting for you, but you can’t take any of it personally. Its a TV show, but on the other hand I feel gagging those who do criticise the show is not the answer. I know you say you still welcome criticism but I have seen “criticism and it is still labed as bashing and the posters “haters.

    In time it will cool down. Even those who truely hate the show will move on because there will be nothing to keep them here. Many feel like that already and I hope that the fans who do like the show will hang around and support GW for many more years, but if the Showrunners are not going to take on board the criticisms then they should just ignore them and continue doing what they want. I think it will turn away most of the former fanbase, but maybe it will bring in a new audience large enough to sustain the show for many more years, but it wont be Stargate for me.

    I agree that doing this has to be fun and if its not then like the fans who dislike SGU it may be a time to move on. I do applaud you for the job you have done here over the years and my honest opinion is that SGU wouldnt be receiving as much criticism as it is, if it held on to some of the core things that made the franchise great and kept it on the air for 15 years.

  • adamtm: I’m not going to get into a Heroes argument with you on a Stargate fansite, but just to say it, Heroes has had four seasons, not five. It had five volumes, which is what you might have meant, two of which were in season three. Originally the plan was to have two volumes in season two, I think the writer’s strike put an end to that though.

  • Thank you for this. If all the venom and counter-venom was destroying the enjoyment of the site for a news page/headline reader like me (who’d stopped scrolling down as far as the comments because there might be something hate-filled there!) I can only imagine what it was doing to your desire to maintain it. Thank you for finding a way to keep going without silencing respectful and self-moderated criticism/debate here, and without disrespecting the very real grief that you mentioned.

    I hope you get your “fun” back!

  • Darren,
    I am sorry to learn that you have been through tough times, and unacceptable behaviour of people on Gateworld has contributed to that. I think you have made the right choices here, and fully appreciate thew work you, David and the other Mods do as well. I like to think the majority of folk on Gateworld will agree with that.

    I am appalled from time to time by some of the bad behavior that people have tried to get away with online, I suspect its because they think online contact is “disposable” – click a button and its forgettable, without consiquences that matter. – But its not like that. Here’s hoping the trouble makers will move on elsewhere, and we can all get back to why we come to Gateworld, to share our enjoyment, and constructive criticisms of all Stargate, including SGU.

    I love a lot of different Sci Fi series, past and present. Gatworld is the best site for its parent format, hands down. I hope we don’t loose that. – If we do, that would be a real tragedy.

  • Darren, I get that the ship has sailed on the complaints of censorship. And I hope that you got that I wasn’t trying to make this a battle over free speech. I know that running a site like this isn’t easy (if you ever want to trade ‘war’ stories, let me know). And people will always try to see what they can get away with, but it is easier to do so when they can’t see the lines that have already been established. I know the rules are posted, but most probably don’t read them and few would understand your meaning behind them because they’re written by you with preconceived knowledge of what the intention is. By providing examples, even though it is a harder path, you provide ways for those who don’t share that knowledge of the rules to see what the intention behind them is. I realize it’s a hard road to travel and I don’t know the details of the structure of Gateworld to assume that you have the resources to take such a route, but I do think you’d be pleasantly surprised with the results.

    As for what moderation is really about, I disagree. Moderation, to me, is about resolution rather than repression. Think of it from the perspective of an unknown observer. Someone makes a post about someone being stupid, disliking SGU and details about their views of faults in the acting of a particular actor on SGU. You delete the post after this unknown observer has seen it. What should the unknown observer assume from that? Was it deleted because they said that someone was stupid? Because they said they disliked SGU? Because they didn’t like the performance of a particular actor in a particular episode? Or a combination of 2 or more? Take the same situation and moderate the post by editing it to include an editorial note that saying that a person is stupid is against the rules and will lead to disciplinary action if it occurs again and not only does the poster know what they did that was seen as wrong, but others clearly see it as well. Now it may ‘seem’ obvious what was wrong, but by not defining it, doubt is created or misinterpretation can occur. This creates confusion. And most people don’t respond well to confusion. When they become sufficiently confused, they too lash out because of their own frustration. And I, personally, would rather be ‘shamed’. If I did something wrong, I have no problem with being called out on it.

    And I am glad that you didn’t ask me to leave. I didn’t think you would, but I obviously didn’t know for certain. As for avoiding SGU items, I do, respectfully, disagree. I think it’s the differences of opinions that make it worthwhile to post. I never really post just to hear myself talk and hope for praise of it but rather because I want to know what others think about the topic. And I usually find it more interesting when people disagree or have a slightly skewed perspective. Maybe this perspective is rare among the current Gateworld populous, I really don’t know. But I think it would become pretty boring if everyone agreed about things.

    Maybe it’s as much the fault of those whom like me aren’t happy with SGU but don’t actually hate SGU fans for not presenting things better and ensuring that our message isn’t used by SGU fan haters (which I think are the ‘haters’ that most of the SGU fans are really complaining about) to propel their own agenda. At the same time, I have seen SGU fans get upset even when valid criticisms are made because it didn’t paint SGU as being great. And I do think that it’s a distinction in the type of fan that that the old shows drew versus that which SGU draws in that the fans of the old shows were types that didn’t tend to complain when people disagreed with us. I can’t recall a time that I’ve ever complained about an SGU fan saying SGU was great. Disagreed, yes. Complained, no. And I think this is indicative of the split that SGU has created. What I hope you take from this is that there are those, whom like me, aren’t trying to destroy Stargate or Gateworld, we’re just trying to nudge both in directions that we think are what is best for both. Which is just what everyone is doing, really. But we’re also the ones whom if we get out of line and you tell us, we’ll respect you more for it.

  • I can’t thank you enough for this decision! I myself a couple of times have gotten a bit carried away when dealing with people here. Mostly with those people tying to either convert people to the dark-side (to not like the show), or those just trying to disrupt the forums in general. I agree that not every Stargate show out there is going to be like the ones we love, but with so many views and positions, it’s just not possible for everyone to agree. So thank you setting the standard that you do, in the past, and now. You have opened(again) the void that the Internet has created for the fans, and instead of letting it get out of control, you did now what you did in creating this site. You gave us all a home! I wont forget it, and I will do my best to make other see it as well. It is not just Stargate, and it’s not just a show. it is a place for our imagination to live and breathe, and now this fostering of imagination will continue to grow for all.

    Thank you
    ~lmaceleighton

  • Darren,

    I have been reading this site for years now, watching SG-1 since I was a freshman in high school and I have loved every bit of it.

    I dont know anyone in real life that loves SG like I do, so this is where I can find people with the same passion. I never joined the site, but I have always enjoyed reading the stories. I truly appreciate what you are doing here, and now I have decided to start participating in the forums.

    Thanks for all that you do, and know that for every hater the are probably 10 people like me who agree with you and have just never commented.

  • “Of course you get some who take things too far but it takes two to get into a argument and the usual comeback from many who like the show is equally as insulting but I don’t see any mention of this.”

    Isn’t that to be expected? If you go into a fan site and post hateful messages towards the show the site is dedicated to, then you’re just asking for a response. For example it’s like if you went to Scotland and started insulting the Scottish they wouldn’t take it to kindly.

    “I have seen topics on here that get very little response but as soon as someone voices any criticism then its inundated with pro SGU fans attacking them. I rarely see one well thought out post as to why these fans like the show as they spend most of their time commenting on other posters who don’t”

    I suggest you look at the forums more closely, I have seen various topics created with titles such as “Would you say stargate universe is sci-fi”, “What attracts you to SGU”, “Was it a mistake” etc where pro SGU fans go on to discuss in length well thought out posts as to why they like the show. If you mean the comments on these news articles then shouldn’t the comments not just be about the article in question & should tend to be short (Since the forum is more appropriate to have a proper discussion). I have seen various occurrences where anti SGU fans manage to go way off topic from article content just to get across there general dissatisfaction of SGU (Especially in almost every “Tonight on SGU” article in the past).

    “I have heard all the excuses why the movies couldnt be made and how there was no money etc but yet they’re seems to be an endless supply for SGU.”

    Regarding the movies the current financial issues MGM faces is a very good reason as to why they haven’t given the green light (Aswell as the slow down of the DVD market in general). Regarding SGU they have a contract with SyFy where SyFy pays there own share towards the series. With the movies on the other hand that’s solely an MGM project and one they do not believe they can risk paying for at this moment in time.

    I fully agree with you that some of those who dislike SGU have good reasons as to why, TPTB could have handled a lot of things differently and the show isn’t perfect. But enough is enough, there are those who have fully made up there mind about SGU and only post on Gateworld to get there kicks and they truly believe that there efforts will somehow lead to SGU getting cancelled. Those are the people that Gateworld wants reduced, if you look throughout comments on SGU articles in the past you will know them when you see them. Critics are still fully welcomed here as long as they keep what there saying constructive and tactful (which surely isn’t so much to ask).

    There are those who have left Gateworld already because of how much they allowed. I know that Darren has been under a lot of strain, he and his team have put countless hours into this site and all they got in return was complaints from both sides of the coin, something had to be done.

  • A complete and entertaining show was SG-1 and had fun with Atlantis but last season was out of order. universe little boring for me. i watch it because i love stargate. even i watch it 100 times still same fun for me .

  • @tanith
    surely the rules apply to both sides of the argument so therefore all sides should be moderated equally?

  • To be honest when ever all the “I HATE THIS AND I HATE THAT” stuff started going on and all i started to encounter was flame wars, and bash sessions i really didn’t like going into the forums anymore. The only reason that i have even been coming to Gateworld over the past few months is the read the articles and listen to the podcasts and thats it. Maybe this will making posting actually fun again, like it was when i first joined.

  • As someone who was very disappointed in how the cancellation of SGA and startup of SGU was handled, I have honestly appreciated the comments on the articles here on the main page where that decision was questioned.
    I don’t think people should ever be nasty or cruel ever. I have seen many well-thought out opinions expressing people’s sadness and disappointment with the new series.
    It seems to me that those with negative opinions on SGU were effectively chased out of the forum threads by the pro-SGU fans, this was the only place where they could go and post.
    And I appreciate honesty, when it is handled with courtesy and dignity.
    I am truly sorry Darren that all these bad feelings have “harshed your mellow,” so to speak, I hope you recover your Stargate mojo. This is your site and you do what you need to do.
    I liken this entire situation to a child who has a beloved dog, playing with it as a companion and a friend, whose presence helping her to get through hard times by just being there. Then one day the child comes home and the father says, “we got rid of that dog, he doesn’t match the new furniture. Here, play with this duck we got you as a replacement pet.”
    OK, the duck might be a nice bird, but you want your friend back.
    I just hope you realize how some of us have been hurt by this change in the Stargate world and seeing others express those feelings here has been helpful. Knowing I was not alone has been good for my psyche.
    I do hope you will allow some dissenting comments to articles in the future that are not mean-spirited.
    Thank you though, Gateworld has brought me many hours of enjoyment throughout the past few years and it is much appreciated.

  • Darren

    Thanks, Sylvia. I think SGA fans have every right to be disappointed, though at some point one has to stop hammering SGU because of it. Your posts have always been fair and level-headed, and I appreciate it.

  • @ Darren

    “Fans who love SGU should have a place to go where the discussion is utterly free of hatred of the show. Not critique, mind you — hatred.”

    The problem with this statement is, that a lot of SGU fans interpret even mild critique as hatred, bashing, attacks, and so on. Even your own podcast about SGU’s Anti-Heroes was considered as bashing by some SGU fans! For a lot of SGU fans is critique = hatred.

    I have read comments from people who overall like SGU and only don’t like certain aspects, who were nevertheless attacked by SGU fans, if they dare to voice their concerns. So SGU fans are even attacking each other, if someone dare to criticize something about the show.

    I guess the best thing would be, if you put a big banner on the gateworld site, which forbid ANY negative comments about SGU. If you want to censor, than you should censor completely and make it at once visible for everyone who visit this site. Anything else makes no sense, because even mild critique is for many SGU fans already a sign of hatred.

  • I agree if you dont like the show fair enought just dont try and stop others who do.

    How is the whole stargate franchise suppost to keep going if its own fans “hate it”.

    SGU is different and just getting started!

  • @Tanith:

    “Isn’t that to be expected? If you go into a fan site and post hateful messages towards the show the site is dedicated to, then you’re just asking for a response. For example it’s like if you went to Scotland and started insulting the Scottish they wouldn’t take it to kindly.”

    First, I want to point out again that Gateworld is not an SGU fan site. It’s a Stargate fan site. So we’re not talking about someone going to Scotland and insulting the Scottish. Using the same concept, we’re talking about a Scott insulting the Scottish, which is usually generally acceptable when one of the member of a group jibes the group. Comedians use this concept regularly.

    And really, hateful messages, as long as they are about the show and not aimed at one of the posters, don’t really do any harm. If those of us who don’t like SGU are expected to let people who do say good things about SGU, then we should be able to say negative things. As long as it’s limited to just the show, there’s no harm in it. If you disagree, you have the choice of saying so or just ignoring them. If you say that you disagree, then they should be allowed to respond to it. And as long as, again, it remains about the show and not about the posters, no harm. This isn’t and shouldn’t be personal. I don’t like SGU, but I don’t dislike anyone just for liking the show.

    “Would you say stargate universe is sci-fi”

    So far, my response would be no because so far it’s been a space soap opera which I don’t view as sci-fi. As an SGU hater, should I not be able to say this? Does my opinion have no value because I don’t love the show?

    Everyone’s getting too emotional about the issue. Keep it about the topic and keep it about the show. If we all just stuck to this basic principle, I think everyone would be happier and Darren would be much less stressed.

    “What attracts you to SGU”

    If the answer is ‘nothing so far’, should we not be allowed to say so?

    “Was it a mistake”

    The show? With only this context, I’d see this as an invitation to anyone who didn’t like SGU.

    People on both sides need to just live and let live. If someone takes a thread where ‘haters’ try to take it off topic and ruin it, let the moderators know. Hell, let me know. I’ll shut them down myself.

    At the same time, no one’s opinion or perspective is above reproach. Don’t get so emotionally attached. If someone says that SGU sucks, ignore it if you disagree. If it’s off topic and you feel to say something, just say “off topic”. If you respond to it, you are engaging the person. If you engage the person, then don’t be surprised if they respond back.

    I do agree that it’s time for a change…from both sides.

  • Your website your rules. Many fans only want to see happy posts and you’ve granted them a safe haven. The forum is practically an echo chamber now anyway and the front page will follow. If it saves your sanity fine, but call it like it is.

    You need to define what is hate and what is critique. As you’ve seen, there are oversensitive people like Brian Smith’s mom who think that any critique is a slam against the show. Do you really want to cater to them?

  • Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I’m sick and tired of all the SGU-hate. There’s a line that is drawn between making creative criticism of a show and out right hatred and disrespect for the people that create it. Every single news story about SGU has a least a handful of posts that are the latter. Sometimes even against the people that like the show. And really, this is your site, Darren and you can have whatever rules you want. Thank you for putting your foot down.

  • Darren and GateWorld Staff,

    I agree with this approach. Some people that have their minds set to ANY opposition of their views can be very stubborn and unable to understand the opposite point of view. I haven’t had to deal with anything on this scale, but I’ve worked in retail and sometimes without knowing exactly what the details are people will affirm their logic over and over despite any amount of kind words to clarify it.

    While I am not a fan of SGU, I am a Stargate fan. I have enjoyed most episodes. I do not need to have a likable character, but there is something I can’t touch on that hasn’t sold me yet. I always give new series the first season to see where their arcs go and SGU is no different.

    How someone can hate a show when the story and arcs aren’t even complete is not how I approach things.

    And to whoever said all critiques are negative and that there are no positive critiques…yeah.

    Critiques are when you have a point to make against what was showed or presented. But critiques without tact or explanations beyond “this sucks” or “90102 in space” aren’t very descriptive of the issue. However, saying “Stargate to me isn’t about having all these relationship issues as the main story points over actual exploration” is a more tactful and helpful piece to have in discussions.

    One last example, in a sequel to a video game that had the original vehicle driving removed, a person commented “Halo players don’t like to drive so ***** removed such&such to appease them”. However, someone pointed out that Halo games always have vehicles in them and in fact are quite fun.

    Sometimes comments just stem from hateful of changes and not actual points. People just need to be able to think critically about what what they don’t like.

  • Vladius, good question.

    The problem lies really in the loosely defined statements.
    What is allowed and what isnt?
    Bashing a show is not ok, but bashing fans that criticize it is? Calling the “haters” dumb by “not getting it”, is ok?

    If you are setting up the fences all around us, at least tell us what “respectful” means.

  • Wow, I have been reading gateworld for many years and was unaware how bad things had gotten. I’m sorry to hear it has come to this, but from what it sounds like, it’s the best course of action. I had heard there was large unrest about SGU. I for one love what I have seen of the show, it’s brought fresh air to the franchise for me. I love both SG1 and SGA for what they are, but SGU feels deeper, grippier than the previous series, there something more balanced about it.

    As a suggestion, do you have any thoughts on a user comment rating system? where not only users are rated for there input but comments are ranks and hidden if ranked low… this sort of community moderation would help reduce your own moderation and bolster a community consensus.

  • I’ve posted on here a few times and mostly it was in response to people hating on SGU and would of liked to post more but most of the time was not in the mood to get into an all out argument with ppl everytime i said something i liked about SGU and how every good thing about SGU brought out haters who would jump all over it. I’ll definitly be posting more now as i can feel like i won’t have to go to war in defence of everything i say. Thanks

  • Darren,

    I have been coming to this website since I was 13, and it has always been a place of enjoyment and free expression – but I do agree that the hatred and the fracturing within the community has made it less fun for me. While i’m not currently an SGU fan, I am a very enthusiastic SG1 and SGA fan and the lack of support for the newest addition to the Stargate franchise is disheartening, especially since I intend to catch up on SGU this summer. All of the negativity posted about the series makes me wonder why some people even bother.

    But I support you, Darren, in any decision that you make about this community – your website has very literally provided me with news and entertainment throughout my middle school, high school and college years and I would be greatly saddened if it were to no longer bring you happiness. I come here because I love Stargate, in any incarnation, and I always will – if anyone here cannot say that, then they probably belong at another site.

  • I agree completely. There’s a huge difference between being critical of a show and being hateful of a show. I feel that if you’re critical in a respectful manner, i.e. you think stargate universe isn’t a good show because there isn’t as much adventure as the first shows, then you’re welcome to do so. But just to post “this show sucks, it’s too much sex.” doesn’t really contribute anything. I used to post a lot more back when SG1 and SGA were on, but i still check the site regularly. The constant haters are a bit of a turn off.

  • Darren, it’s a great shame that certain fans have forced your hand into making these changes but for your sanity and, incidentally, the sanity of actual SGU fans like myself incidentally, I’d say it’s most definitely a necessary one! I totally understand the reasoning behind these changes and support them 100%, sir!

  • Ha, the forums are awesome, thanks to these forums and those of DSF, i’m slowly gaining a mastery over grammatical whatsit, eventually, I’ll be writing episodes of StarGate, or maybe something else even grander, but for sure son, you’ll be the one to promote whatever I do, because you’re that awesome.

  • My opinion? THe folks who dislike the show will continue to dislike SGU (or SGA or SG1) no matter what, but to perpetuate the ‘hater’ label, well, doesn’t speak too highly of Gateworld.

  • Darren,
    I whole heartedly back you on anything you need to do to keep sane and keep the site going. I appreciate the privilege to visit the site and hear what other people have to say about the shows I love. Thanks for keeping with it.

  • @KowalRoyale: What’s wrong with people saying “it’s too much sex” in relation to SGU? I don’t actually agree with it, though it hasn’t entirely fit everywhere it’s been used, I don’t see what the problem is with the idea of the statement? Is it that it doesn’t specify a particular instance? What if the person’s general belief is that it doesn’t have a place on the show?

  • @ mythos

    Because that is Wrong,if they say only those few words.If they think that sex do not match with scifi, then it is OK, if they say that it do not fit.But otherwise it is a wrong statement,because in 6 hours and 40 minutes,because there are only 5min or less in it with sex scenes

  • I have to agree with Darren, this website is a Stargate FANDOM website, for Fans of the Stargate Franchise. And yes there is a smattering of Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Farscape and the list goes on. As my parents use to say, if you have nothing good to say keep it to your self. As with Star Trek fans, Stargate fans are a rabid bunch of people (I am a rabid fan) and when we are crossed we don’t forgive or forget easily. If you hate Stargate in general or a particular show start a sucks site.

  • where else can the creaters of the abomination that is stargate universe read how the loyal fans who watched and own all 15 seasons of sg1 and sga feel about it? i would leave the comment sections up. you are dropping the ball gateworld.

  • @grif
    there is a forum for this on the internet but moderation forbids me from naming it here. like jim hutto said – it is a suck site

  • I’m so glad you were able to restructure the site instead of having to walk away. I find this site to be a valuable resource and I check it almost daily. I hope that in the future months, you can find your joy again.

  • This is your site, we are just quests on it, you have every right to put your foot down, and I’m behind you 100%. Since finding this site, I don’t get my Stargate News from anywhere else. Thanks for all the hard work you have put into the site.

  • Thanks for posting this, Darren. I’ve read the forums for several years, and began posting around ’05. At some point, though, many fans grew so resentful it was like a poison. There’s thing I’m not happy about too, but there are also things I AM happy about, so I focus on those. I even express some misgivings about SGU, but I still watch and enjoy it. Some of the folks on here have been so venomous, it makes me feel like an idiot for liking it, and it led me to drastically slow down my posting frequency. I hope with this message, people will relax and the Gateworld forums can be a fun place again, with thoughtful debate.

  • Darren great move. The hatred and and bashing not just of the show but us fans that like it has kept me away from here. Hopefully this will change things for the better so we who like it can post without too much fear of getting ripped a new one so to speak by those who hate it.

  • I wish I had known about this site 10 yrs ago! It’s sad so many things have to change, but worth it for those who really love and want to post of their likes, dislikes etc. I actually found out about this via FaceBook 2 days ago.. so looking forward to being here.

    As for Universe, I don’t find it as “fun” to watch as the others. It’s a bit darker, and makes you think a little. Reminds me of Babylon 5. That was one to make you think as you had to follow 3-5 plots simultaneously! Looking forward to see what the new season brings and where it moves to.

  • A devoted SGU disliker here – stems from my love for previous Stargates and hence the disappointment.

    I say do what you have to do to keep your love for your site.

    Also don’t take this stuff to heart. We’re just ranting/venting.

    Everybody needs something to hate.

    Better it be a TV series that disappointed them than manifest itself in other, more destructive ways.

    All the best :)

  • @ grif

    People in communitys pushes each other higher and higher in her negative thoughts.And the communitys are not the overall part of the audience.Send a mail to the Producers and share your view with them,but if it sounds like a hater post or something like that,then they do not read a lot of such mails,and do not take it seriously.Remember it is a Different kind of Show,so most things can not be like the old series.If you flame about things that are in that different way,it is nothing more than mourn about the old Shows(But that is my point of view).Thats nothing Constructive.It is a good choice of Darren to handle things like this.Every time i have come to this site and read the articles,then read the comments,and there was so much flame from the Haters.Many People are not respectful.Even with negative comments you can be respectful and civilized but apparently not everyone.It was no fun anymore,to read the SGU Related things,so i do appreciate this decision

  • Darren, you are a better man than I. I was unable to get past the deepening divisions in the fandom and long ago shut down my site. I can think back to a single incident that ended it all for me. I wasn’t even able to watch the show for a while after that. It sounds like you have persevered through probably worse situations and I commend you for it. The experiences and insight you have provided the fans over the years has been unparalleled. You have provided this service for over a decade and that is no small feat. I, for one, would miss this site if it were to go away but certainly wouldn’t blame you for it. I think you could easily walk away and be proud of what you have accomplished. Thank you.

  • >> “where else can the creaters of the abomination that is stargate universe read how the loyal fans who watched and own all 15 seasons of sg1 and sga feel about it?” <<

    As I wrote earlier I do understand Darren, however, the quote above is a very good point.

    And I believe the angry voices HAVE made a difference.

    I believe the production team attends this website more than any other for honest feedback.

  • @ Jim Hutto

    “As with Star Trek fans, Stargate fans are a rabid bunch of people (I am a rabid fan) and when we are crossed we don’t forgive or forget easily. If you hate Stargate in general or a particular show start a sucks site.”

    I don’t know if such a site exists about Star Trek. But you just have to search for “SGU sucks” in google and the first result will be a Stargate Universe “sucks site”.

  • Hi. This is my first post outside the forum, but I´ve visited the site for YEARS. I discovered Battlestar Galactica miniseries at this site and I recently started to pay attention to the Podcast, news and other sections.
    I just wanted to say THANK YOU for the site and support all the post above. In my humble opinion…..none should see a series if they don´t like it. As simple as that. And it´s good to have an opinion….and better to be respectful to other people´s opinion and hard work.

  • Darren, I am immensely pleased that you have decided to take a stand. I’m glad you didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. GateWorld is a Stargate fan site, and if you’re not a fan, you shouldn’t post. Being a moderator was extremely frustrating because, in my opinion, so many people got away with (virtual) murder. Having to wade through endless bickering and recriminations really made me bitter, and that’s why I stopped. I’m glad you didn’t stop for the same reason.

    Being constantly exposed to this negative energy even effected the way I interact with other posters. When you live/work/play in an environment where everyone tells you to F*** off, you’re going to start start telling everyone else to F*** off, too.

    I really hope this works. It may be GateWorld’s only chance.

  • I don’t hate SGU, have barely said a negative thing about the show on the boards, but in good conscience can’t support this site anymore. Been here for 5 years now and I’m sad it has reached this level of absurdity. Censorship is never the solution. I’d rather if Darren had called it quits instead.

  • I think this is a marvelous idea. While I am admittedly new to the more active side of fandom, in the past I have stayed away because I didn’t want to find myself mired in factional bickering.

    More generally (and philosophically) speaking, I think that free speech is always something that has to be measured by respect.

    I should note that since I’ve joined the GW forum, I’ve been met with a very kind and welcoming response; that said, it only takes a few to make things unpleasant and uncomfortable for everyone.

    I think it’s unfortunate that matters have come to this, but as with any community, the larger it is, the more opportunities for conflict. And with a community that is as opinionated as the sci-fi community, this can have unwelcome consequences.

    Thank you, Darren, for making this difficult but necessary decision.

  • Darren,
    While trying to censor out all the negative things about sgu might be a good thing. It could also be a bad thing. This is a good place for the writers/producers to goto to see what fans dislike/like. Yes the flaming of other people who like SGU is outta hand but how can you criticize something without being negative in one way or another? That’s my 2 cents

  • Darren

    Thanks for the supportive comments and the feedback, everyone. I’m overwhelmed by the percentage of positive support, and it confirms what I’ve been feeling — that a lot of people stop reading and visiting when, like with me, it stopped being fun.

    Eagalis: Just to restate, we have zero intention of censoring “all the negative things about SGU.” Critique of the show is most welcome if it’s done within the rules and — here’s what is new, really — according to the spirit of the Community Vision statement.

    That’s a bit fuzzy, of course, but that’s nothing new. All moderation on any kind of forum is about case-by-case judgments. A few people have suggested examples, in order to give a more firm sense of what we will delete. I’ll see about adding something like that to the Comment Rules page in the days ahead.

  • I mean no disrespect to anybody, but I feel I should say that the flipside of this decision is that those who dislike SGU, especially those of us who have tried to be respectful and tolerant and have often nevertheless been lumped in with the rabid Haters will no longer have to endure SGU fanatics telling us why we’re extremely wrong and why SGU is The Greatest Thing Ever.

    Admittedly, these seem to be a very small subset of the fandom, and the majority of fans on this forum are decent and respectful, regardless of which show they prefer. It is a crying shame that the fandom has become so fractured and polarised, and that you have to do this to keep the peace, but in my opinion, any GateWorld is better than no GateWorld, even if recently it has felt like a much less pleasant place to discuss Stargate.

    I am staying with GateWorld, at least for the time being, but with SG-1 and SGA long gone and the movies looking distinctly unlikely now, I find I have less and less reason to post on the forums – when I do, it is predominantly in the Doctor Who and Babylon 5 sections.

    I understand your decision, Darren, and I also understand that being able to talk to other fans at GateWorld is essentially a privilege, not a right. It is a privilege I have enjoyed and that I am grateful to you, the mods and the rest of the team behind GW for and I absolutely agree that you shouldn’t have to feel unhappy about visiting your own site. Therefore should the day come when you do feel like pulling the plug, you’ll have my support.

    But hey, let’s hope we get another ten and a half years first, right?

  • Pikers, if you REALLY wanted to see dejected out-and-out fan anger, wayback the old “Earth Final Conflict” forums.

    Whoa… now that was a sad one.

  • Darren,
    I’ve been coming to this website for many many year. It’s the ONLY Stargate fansite I go to. You’ve had my support since I first started coming here and you have it now. This is a site for people to talk about how much they like/love Stargate and all its spinoffs not to be haters. To use a Trek phrase: GateWorld, live long and prosper [yes I AM a nerd].

  • Darren, although it pains me to say it, I don’t think Gateworld can ever be the place it once was. Although I don’t post much here I have visited the site for years and used it as my main resource for all things Stargate. It seems like the atmosphere of the place has totally changed. And I don’t think that this is entirely unexpected. Stargate was always a show full of optimism, hope, good humour, adventure and wonder. The latest incarnation is much darker and gloomier, about a crew of people who are pessimistic about their future, fuelled by hatred, anger, lust and greed, and in general not very nice people (anti-heroes, if you will). This new incarnation of Stargate will not attract the same type of viewer as previous incarnations. I think that the positive, friendly, light-hearted atmosphere that used to exist here was in part very much due to the nature of the show the site represented. Now that the show has changed so dramatically to be dark, gloomy and full of anger, I guess it isn’t surprising that the same has happened to the atmosphere on the show’s fansite.

  • I personally dislike the use of Haters, and Lovers to describe fans. Even more if some of the people happy for the change, is people that have insulted not only other fans but other people as well. How forget the whole thing when RC was hired? There were a lot of nasty remarks about Doctor Who PTB. Even the actor playing the 10th Doctor got insulted, although he probably doesn’t even know SG exists. The censorship had been already started so, why those insults were ok? Why weren’t they stopped, and deleted?

    I’ve read the comments, and discussions going on for a long time, and I’ve seen many that some Lovers are quite ready to jump, and bark at other Lovers whom, it seems, don’t love blindly enough.

    Darren, for me, the SG magic has been gone for some time now but this site gave me so much entertainment for many years, and I want to thank you for that. I also want to wish you good luck with your policies, the fact that some people think they’re nice, it doesn’t mean they’re really are.

  • DUDE!!!! Gateworld is the staple diet of any Stargate fan wanting to emerse themself in information and stargate goodness. Your labor of love is highly respected (especially by myself, a fellow webmaster and owner of http://www.gateguide.net) and I send you lots of love (in a Jack and Daniel sorta way). In the words of JFK: “we don’t do things because they are easy, we do them because they are hard”. You have been and continue to be part of a legacy that is the Stargate franchise. We have all made such an impact on the progression of all the shows, and I dare say that without GateWorld, most of our efforts over the year would not have had as strong a voice. I thank you personally for all you and your team have done and hope you don’t lose focus on the good stuff… atleast not yet. :)

  • Good for you, Darren. If it’s not fun, it’s not worth it.

    In fact, I wish you’d taken this action 5 years ago.

    I became a fan during SG-1 season 7. I found GateWorld, and was excited to begin posting with my fellow fans. But I was quickly put off by the presence, in virtually every thread, of a VERY disillusioned fan who seemingly did nothing every day except make endless snide negative posts about SG-1 and the people who watch it. She would frequently imply that people who liked Stargate lacked common sense, etc. Given that this poster was everywhere, with multiple posts in every thread, it didn’t work very well to just put her on ignore — lots of conversations didn’t make much sense if I only read one side of them.

    I could not understand, at all, why this poster was allowed to be so snide and mean about Stargate and its fans on a site called GateWorld. So, I did not become a frequent Gateworld poster.

    If I were an SGU fan, I would consider becoming a part of the conversation now, with your new rules. It sounds like it will be a much more pleasant place.

  • It’s actually very easy to critique without bashing.

    Such and such sucks. So and so’s a whore. What a pile of crap….yeah, that’s how NOT to do it.

    It’s more along the line of ‘I didn’t like this scene, it was just wrong. And I simply cannot stand the costuming of ……’

    One advantage of how the forum has been rearranged, if you simply hate SGU or SGA or SG1, then it’s really easy to just avoid folders devoted to that show and stick to spending your time enjoying the parts that you do enjoy.

    at the end of the day, this is a FAN FORUM…so try being a fan of something more than hate of a show.

  • Sam and Jack Shipper

    Thank you Darren. This is a much appreciated change.

  • Hey, Darren–

    Just like to say I am behind you 100%. You guys have given all fans ample chances to play fair in their comments and thread posts. The fact that people care to disregard respect to get their point across is just beyond me.

    I know how you feel about not wanting to come back to the site. I’ve felt that way sooo many times with reading people’s obscene and degrading comments. There’s no reason to be that way when you can make your dislike heard in a simple manner. And the same things have been said over and over by the same haters. I can’t help but say every time I’m on here, “You’ve said it once before. Why keep dropping the bomb wherever you can AND be nasty with your comment?” I think some fans have gotten way too comfortable thinking that the writing and production crews and actors listen to them to the point where they have a constant say. If they want to have writing/production rights, why not put in their resume? Then that’ll give them a way to have their points taken without a grain of salt. And adding in degrading and hateful words aren’t going to get them heard any more than other fans. That gets them ignored, in fact.

    I hope that this change helps with relieving the stress on Gateworld. I don’t know what I’d do without the site; I don’t go anywhere else for my Stargate scoop–not even Syfy or MGM’s sites! I for one would like to have some civility back in my favorite place.

    Thanks for sticking with it! You are such a strong person!

    ~Leigh

  • I don’t really see how anything has changed, it’s not like you guys ever let us freely express ourselves in the first place. GW has always censored people. Their is a reason I rarely if ever post on the forums anymore.

  • I just saw tonight’s episode, and while the pacing was a bit slow for me(I am used to faster plots of SG1 and SGU), I enjoyed it.

    Planets:Check

    Aliens:Check

    “Bad Guys”:Check

    Better Acting:Check(Consider all the new cast announcements.Including Teabag from Prisonbreak)

    Now that the characters have been developed, we can get to the juicy plot stuff.

    I was anti-SGU for awhile, but tonight’s episode has begun my conversion.

  • And FTR I love SGU. But just because I disagree with with the Haters doesn’t mean I think they should be censored.

  • Darren,
    Wonderful Job, I’ve been comming here for a few years now but only this past year began posting in sections of the forum. Loving Gateworld, not loving the trolls so much.

    Stick to your guns, its your site (your roof), therefore your rules. Over at DarkUFO (the Lost Blog/site) they’re pretty strict too for the same reasons. So know you’re not alone in your reasoning I support your decision 100% in these matters of site integrity.

    Looking forwards to the 2nd half of Stargate Universe with anticipation. *grin*

  • “The part I don’t understand is, if you hate SGU that much why would you watch it, continue to comment on it, why………”
    I can only speak for myself on that one. I have been a Stargate fan for a long time. SG-1 is by far my favorite show ever and SGA was pretty good as well. I don’t like SGU but continue to watch it in hopes that it might get better. Sadly, I’ve been let down 10 times so far.
    I’m really trying to like SGU but it’s hard. All the great things that I loved about SG-1 and SGA are missing in SGU. SGU just doesn’t have the Stargate feel to it.
    I have to agree with mythos. If my answer to the questions “Is SGU sci-fi?” and “Was it a mistake? Are No and Yes should I not be allowed to voice that opinion?
    Darren, I would like to thank you for all the years of hard work to bring all of us this great site. GateWorld is the #1 site for Stategate fans. I know that people get annoyed with the SGU bashing. I have done some SGU bashing in the forums, I always keep it respectful and do most of the bashing in threads like “Was SGU a mistake” which is expected to have negative opinions. I guess the main reason I post is that I hope TPTB may see my (and other peoples) post and take that in to consideration. I have been watching Stargate for half of my life and desperately want it to be good again. Is that really too much to ask?

  • Finally, someone spoke up about all the abuse and other stuff?. Gateworld is practically the only site I visit when it comes to the “news” about stargate and I hope it will continue to be. I thoroughly enjoy coming over and seeing what there is to see. This is a much appreciated change and thanks for all the work put into this site.

  • I’ve already listed the points in previous articles where people such as Tanith/Skydiver could not come up with a proper response.

    So I’ll keep it short and simple for those who missed them, it all comes down to 1 simple point:
    GW got critized for censorship because it allowed mods and members to bash SG1/SGA fans, but not the other way around when it comes to SGU.

    The simple fact is if the same “no bashing” rule really applied to SG (the franchise), as in evenly applied to all SG fans, things here would not have got out of hand the first place.

    Not one single sentence from Darren’s post explained why the rule wasn’t evenly applied. I mean you’re now chanting the SG song but that clearly wasn’t the case when SGU fans bash the SG1/SGA fans.

    So victim marketing aside, those who understands how the world works knows this is just another business decision.

  • Darren, I’m glad to see that you did not decide to shut down this great website.

  • Darren,
    I agree with you on this move. I know it must have been difficult to go through with it but it has been getting worse these last few months.

    As for what defines critics vs. haters? I think we all know the difference. It’s testing around that boundry line that has brought this change. If you don’t like the show then it’s time to move on. SGU is a different show than its predecessors and its not going to change into another SG1 or SGA because people go on rants about the show.

  • I like this site, I’m glad you aren’t pulling the plug.

  • Well done Darren. This is why I keep coming back here. If the antifans want to keep posting the same talking points again and again despite how many times they’ve been answered then they can go to imdb or any number of other sites. For those of you worried about free speech: this is private property. Gateworld is a party, Darren and the mods are our hosts. If they wish to eject us from the party for unacceptable behavior, that is their right. Whether you agree with it or not.

    Lastly, I love Stargate and I’ve been a fan since the movie. SGU is the best incarnation yet. May it last 20 seasons!

  • We’re with you, mate! Thanks for all the good work the past ten years and here’s to the next ten!

  • Darren,
    You have to do what’s best for you. Thank you for all the good times and the great people that I’ve met through Gateworld, including you and David.

  • Its actually a bit refreshing. The same old folks arguing about the same old thing day in and day out gets old…to the point where its known to come to Gateworld if you want to deal with crazy people.

    That’s not cool.

  • Thank you, sir. While opinions of the show vary greatly, some have decided they are the final word on such subjective topics. I think SGU is a wonderful show and a worthy successor to SG-1 and Atlantis. No, it’s not perfect. I applaud your move to seek out and remove those that post only to bring others down. I know dissenters will be alarmed by these changes, but I know those that remain respectful to others will continue to thrive and add much to the discussion of all things Stargate.

    Though, keep in mind guys, the level of nastiness has even been commented on by production and cast members. Please continue to criticize, because nothing will ever improve if you don’t. But if you absolutely hate the show, there really is no reason to comment on something you’re avoiding.

  • “GateWorld is about opening the doors to all Stargate fans, no matter their opinion — but even more than that, it’s about enjoying Stargate” Well said.

    I do not really understand all the hate and anger. I guess people are never happy and they should always have things their way.

    A lot of that going on on the internet nowadays :(

  • Its good to hear that the cork of respect has finally been used to plug up the bottle of hate. I knew the Staff here at Gateworld wasn’t asleep at the wheel, just trying to figure out the best way to steer the vehicle. I’m sorry you’ve had a crappy year lately, I know how real world issues can stifle the affection you have for something in the virtual world. I wish you only the best and thank you for giving the fans back a place they can be proud to come to and share their love for ALL things StarGate.

  • @angel
    “I would agree that people can be too vocal and could voice their opinions in a more respectful way, but this is not just from those who dislike SGU but also from those fans that love it.”

    Exactly. People have a right to hate and despise something (not necessarily here), but when the “positive side” keeps saying they are better people for being positive (and moderators siding with that) then you have a conflict which will just escalate.
    You are NOT a better human being because you like SGU – once you accept that then perhaps civil discourse becomes possible. Otherwise a lot of people are just going to be brief and rude, because there is no real point wasting time for longer missives. Of course when we get right down to it, no humans really respect other viewpoints, some just pretend.

  • New rule: Anyone who uses the expression “hater” must be banned. (Or the other side must start using sycophant)

  • @mythos
    “Moderation, to me, is about resolution rather than repression”

    Exactly. Here you have the little kings who are moderators who just ban people for life because they respond to being baited.
    In the end its a losing battle – remember the slipstreambbs? That was for Andromeda and in the end the people running it ended up closing it because of all the fighting. You don’t hammer your way to peace.

  • thank you, infinity!
    discussion I love but hatred? yurgh!
    glad you’re changing rather than walking away from what you’ve created!

  • Where is all this rampant hatred of SGU that is preventing fans from enjoying the show. There are at least 20 threads dedicated to SGU where there is no hatred of the show. And usually when anyone dares to give a negative opinion they’re quickly chased away. So where are the vile comments and the hatred. The only place I’ve seen where SGU is discussed is here on these comments threads and the majority of responses have been respectful.

    Why do pro SGU fans protest about one thread and only come to it to attack anyone with a different opinion to theirs. Tanith seems to think it’s her/his right to tell others to go away if they dont agree with her/him. So it seems to be ok to insult and be rude if you are defending SGU, but you are a hater if you criticise it. How can fans say they love this new incarnation of stargate because the characters are so much more realistic, but yet they can’t handle the real world. In the real world people disagree and have different opinions and I’m sick of reading about the term hater because imo its labled on everyone who dares to criticise SGU.

    If they enjoy most of the show then its acceptable but if they criticise the entire show then they are haters.

    Its sad to think that people can’t discuss pro’s and cons of a show without attacking anyone who doesnt share their opinion. The criticism of SGU has been wide spread. Its not just on GW so that would indicate that SGU is not being received as well as the tpb hoped but yet they don’t want to hear why?. Its nothing to do with trying to get back at the creators of stargate, or disgruntled SGA fans. Fans are giving their opinions on the merits of SGU and nothing else.

    Again on a board this size you will ALWAYS get some you take things too far, but from what I’ve seen, no way is hatred of SGU rampant on this board, and there are plenty of places to go and praise SGU to your hearts content.

    But where will this end. What happens when fans of SGU disagree with each other, which will happen eventually, how will that be handled or curtailed. As someone said earlier the vibe on GW has changed for quite some time now and I fully agree that its due to the changes in Stargate. We have a show depicting angry and self absorbed people. Is the show mirrowing the fanbase now. Sure many are quite glad that anyone disagreeing with their views on the show are being told to go away. But how realistic is a world where everyone agrees with you. This is meant to be a discussion board but many don’t want to have anyone disagree with them. But that’s part of life and it should only be those who truely break the rules that are not allowed to post. Others should be premitted to post their opinion no matter how opposing it may be to someone else, once its done in a resepctful way.

    But I see no distinction between bashing and criticism as it seems to depend on different perspectives. I dont see any rampant hatred of SGU, if I did I could understand these changes. All I see are some fans who have issues with SGU and voicing them in the comments section and practically nowhere else. So why has that become such an issue.

  • “GateWorld is first a fan site, and if you don’t like SGU, you shouldn’t post about it here.”

    So then where exactly would one post about it? It IS a fan site. Someone can be a fan of the franchise without being a fan of the particular show. Or is this only for positive fans now?

    A fan site is where a fan should be able to say whatever they want, positive or negative, since it’s not censored by the studio who is trying to promote their product. I love SG1 and Atlantis. SGU is tolerable, don’t hate it, don’t love it. So now if I have something bad to say about it, I can’t say it since apparently I’m not a fan of SGU, so I don’t belong in any SGU section.

    If you’re trying to avoid factions and splintering, you’ve now only added to it. Since it will keep people separate if they are a so-called ‘hater’ of the show.

  • @Darren: I guess the lines are drawn in the sand. Since this is not the Stargate I enjoyed for the past 15 Seasons, and SG1/and SGA is no more, and there’s obviously no Movies coming out either, this site has just become a PRO SGU site. Now that even tougher but “Fuzzier” rules are going to be applied, the site may well change name to lovesgu.com. There’s really nothing to discuss about SG1/SGA since even TPTB refer to SG1 & SGA as “more comedic has beens”

    Props to you for bringin like minded individuals together, and fortunately or unfortunately, driving like minded individuals out together as well. You might have just well said, if you think SGUSUCKS, well don’t come here, just go to that site instead.

    So, goodbye my friend. it was good while it lasted. Don’t take things too seriously. If you do, you’ll never reach my age. It’s time I moved myself with others I’ve got to know here, to a website that we can openly discuss the obvious shortcomings of this Drama, that they like to call Stargate Universe. They say sometimes reality follows fiction. Gateworld just proclaimed “Hallowed is SGU”

    I can draw similarities:

    Prior: What say you to the promise of the Ori?
    Latal: We will hear no more of false gods. Go now, and we will spare your life

    Change that to:

    Gateworld: What say you to the promise of SGU?
    We: We will hear no more of false advertising. Go now, and we will spare you our rebuttals.

    Adios.

  • Well angel, I think the distinction is pretty clear.

    Okay: “The Chloe character seems to be a perpetual victim. They should toughen her up over the coming season and a half.”

    Not Okay: “SGU is a terrible show and should be cancelled and Elyse’s acting is bad and she should feel bad!”

    (Note that I don’t think Elyse’s acting is bad, I was just using her for consistency with the Chloe example.)

    Clear enough?

  • NKDietrich
    You are missing my point. I said that even if posters make their point in a prefectly respectful way they are still given the label of hater and accused of bashing the show. Some took Darren’s podcast on anti heroes to be bashing the show. It seems everyone has a different opinion on what bashing/criticizing is.

    It also seems acceptable to be rude and insulting if you are defending the show but you’re a hater if you criticise it. ! But these posters are just as much haters as they spend their time attacking and venting at anyone who doesn’t share their opinion.

  • As a former SG ‘lifer’ I continued to visit GW, despite my dislike for SGU, because at one time I still held hope there might be news about the other two incarnations. I watched SGU infrequently but enough to keep an eye out for improvement, only to be disappointed week after week. And on a rare occasion, I would respond to the episode review post or on articles about SGU with my thoughts put down in reasoned, non-bashing terminology. I never responded individually to any other poster, no matter how they may have baited those who voiced their dissatisfaction.

    People come to this site because they have a connection to a TV show and possibly to their fellow fans. The site’s reputation also earned you the eyes and ears of TPTB. My comments were meant to join the chorus of those unhappy with the cancellation and complete dismissal of SGA ~ in the beginning it was the hope that, like those who “saved Carson Beckett,” enough voices might make them change their minds. In the end it was the hope to urge those who blindly stumbled along with the ‘it’s Stargate, therefore I have to like it’ mantra that many fans and PTB have been chanting to open their eyes, truly examine the show and see it for the embarassment that it is. It reminds me of the whiff of desperation around Enterprise. The old series, beloved by so many, was updated to be ‘cooler’ but since Trek since the beginning was made for and by SciFi geeks, it was like the nerdiest kid in school buying an expensive leather jacket too big for him and strutting about in it like it made him cool. The first time they used the decon chamber on Enterprise to show the Playboy Vulcan in her underwear getting the rubdown with another underwear clad crewmember – gasp! with Hoshi, too!- I cringed. The same thing happened when they opened SGU. This is clearly not your father’s Stargate. Wow.

    Unfortunately, what I see happening is the loss of an opportunity for this site to continue relevance. Once you silence the malcontents you will find every thread turned into a monotone hum of ‘me, too!’s. No discussion, no controversy.

    That is until a former ‘believer’s eyes open and they question something or express an opinion adverse to the majority. I’m sure the drone of me tooers will attempt to drown those voices out too. I foresee this breaking down eventually to Team Eli and Team Scott arguments until the whole thing just folds in on itself and implodes.

    Best of luck, GW. If we ever get an SG1 or SGA movie, maybe I’ll drop by.

  • I appreciate that Gateworld gets the ear of the SG production staff. How many other shows actually respond with changes made to please the fans or explanations of why things are the way they are.

    Negativity is best done with a fine brush and I doubt the broad brush haters get read past the first flame anyway.

    Thanks Darren for the site and best to your family!

  • I think these changes will make GateWorld so much better. Why come here if you just want to bash the show? I think a true fan embraces the changes that SG-U has brought. And last night we saw how awesome this show is going to be!

  • now that you have sub forums for the different shows what would be the harm in having a sub forum just for negative comments?
    anybody that does not want to read that kind of thing can choose not to go near it and then everybody is happy.
    surely that way we can all cohabit peacefully?
    it is an option on the sucks site for sgu for the “lovers”

  • To be honest, my immediate thought after reading this was “Finally!”.

    Darren, I feel your pain. As an administrator of a different Stargate-related website, I’m constantly dealing with arguments. The only thing that really keeps the people, themselves, in line is our Terms of Service. We tell people, right as they sign up, that we have every right to ban them if they break the ToS (one of which talks about infringing upon other people’s right to enjoy the internet). To my understanding, the ‘free speech’ idea was on the site before I joined and it caused many problems because ‘free speech’ became a contradiction of the very rules that were being upheld. So, the site President (your job, in this case, not mine) broke down and re-did many aspects of the site. Now, we hold strict accordance to the definition of ‘libel’ with very little room for argument. Sure, a couple people left because they felt that we were being unfair, but over all it didn’t really affect our attendance. In fact, the new ToS has been attracting people.

    Now, I’m not suggesting you do exactly what we did. What you do here is yours to decide. I’m just saying that other sites like Gateworld have gone stricter and have survived. With Gateworld’s reputation, you have nothing to worry about.

    I have a gut feeling that many of the people who don’t like the new restrictions won’t leave. They’ll just figure out how to exist on here a different way. And if not? Well, they’ll get over it.

  • I do think it’s important to keep an eye on the rampant negativity, and I applaud you for that, as this once-great site was becoming a cesspool of antisocial behavior, and as such was becoming increasingly less enjoyable to visit. I think we’d all agree with that notion, and I’m happy to see you fixing the problem. It would have majorly sucked if you’d left, and I’m relieved that you’re not. However, you’re showing favoritism by only publicly calling out those who dislike the show. I’ve seen MANY people here who like the show being equally rude and offensive to those who don’t. If you were truly trying to uphold freedom of speech, then with all due respect, you should have made it clear that you won’t condone bad behavior on EITHER side of the debate, pro- or anti-SGU, and that those who dislike the show have as much right to constructively discuss why as those who like it. By singling out the “haters” (and for the record, I hate that word), you’re taking sides. Now, maybe that’s your goal–you’re a fan, after all. But if you’re smacking down those who get rude in trashing the show, but not smacking down those who get rude in defending it, then the entire point of your editorial goes completely out the window. All constructive opinions should be tolerated, and all bad behavior should be dealt with. It might have been a better idea to call out negativity, NOT call out anti-SGU posts. They are not necessarily the same thing. If I understand you correctly, your beef isn’t with those who dislike the show–it’s with those who act like a-holes in stating such. And if so, you’re absolutely right. But let’s be honest, here–it’s not just the anti-SGU fans who act like a-holes. Any time someone posts a reasonable, respectful discussion of the series’ many faults, it’s inevitable that people will jump on that individual, and call him names–like the term “hater,” for instance, which you used. That sort of thing shouldn’t be tolerated, any more than someone coming onto the board and trashing those who like it. Otherwise, you might as well come right out and call this what it is–censorship. (I apologize if any of this post offends you, which certainly isn’t my goal. I’ve been reading this site for years, and have always enjoyed it. I just can’t help but cringe when I see you smacking down one side of the debate, but not the other. That sort of bias kills any point you’re trying to make.)

  • Having the ear of the SG production staff is the key.

    Bashing does nothing except alienate.
    However, constructive criticism from perhaps the largest, most articulate base of SG “product” consumers can be priceless in deciding what is working or desirable vs that which merely sounded good in a closed meeting.

  • OMG I had no idea it got this bad. 99% of the time I come to your site for information, rumors, news, pics, etc. I have listened to your podcast as well. I usually never post anything, but felt I had to this time. It really saddens and shocks me that so many had soo much hatred for SGU and the cancellation of Atlantis. I was upset about Altantis too. I know that we sometimes forget that these shows aren’t just “art for arts sake;’Ars Gratia Artis’,” they are also an investment. In very basic terms, Syfy coughs up the dough, the financially fragile child known as”MGM” takes the money and makes the show. We as fans must invest the time and watch the show, or ratings dwindle, advertisers pull out or offer less per 30 second ad, and then Syfy sees their investment yielding little or potentially little to no return. This leads to cancellation. It all falls back on the art. Is it good? Does it keep your attention? I think Stargate and Atlantis did. SG1 most definitely had its run, although I still think they need to get VALA, Claudia Black, onto SGU. LOL. (I kid I kid) Anyways, Atlantis felt like it could have used another 2 seasons to satisfy my palette, but oh well. I can see why people are divided over SGU. If you walked into it thinking it would be good ole Stargate half serious half comical, you were sorely disappointed AND if you thought it was going to be like battlestar, it was more like a sundae with no cherry, whipped cream, or sprinkles. The show needs more reoccurring extras (to make it look like the ship doesnt just have like 10 people at any given time), more original music, and a few more sets. They also need to be finished with this psychological-character-indulgence/setup/buildup or whatever you want to call it that has been boring the fans to death. I find myself wishing that each episode will have some kind of action, only to be disappointed and feeling like I just watched a clip show. The first 3 episodes were awesome, the episode that was shot from the Kino’s perspective was great, and FINALLY “Space” was f***ing fantastic!!! (I actually watched it twice) In short: They are IN SPACE, they need to have SPACE FIGHTS and meet SPACE ALIENS. It needs to pull from its core (Stargate), but it also, in my humble opinion, needs to borrow from the likes of StarTrek where once in awhile everyone gets along and the aliens aren’t trying to eat your face off, and finally they need to borrow from Battlestar a little bit. If they do this, add some salt, sugar and bake at 350F for about 3 episodes, they can most likely recapture some of the sourpusses out there and grab even a new audience. I like the show, but I wish I loved the show. I hope you all know what I mean. As to these people who have made the creator of this site actually think about putting an end to it….. well, seriously…you should channel all that negative energy into positive comments or creative criticisms as I believe I just did. Shame on you for making someone question if doing this website was fun anymore. Ok, I feel better now. LONG LIVE GATEWORLD!!!!!

  • Thank you Darren,

    I had been a member for a very long time and was disheartened by the amount of negativity that was being posted here and in the forums. Everyone knew the rules and the changes to them made after Atlantis. But many did not adhere to them. For those reasons I left the site and didn’t visit for a while.

    I fully support you and your mod team in enforcing the Community Vision.

    As for the right to free speech, don’t worry about it. It may be a fundamental freedom however each freedom does have its limits. In a moderated forum or comment section of a privately owned website where guidelines for protocol and ettique are clearly posted, the right to free speech can be monitored and the Vision of the Community should prevail.

    As for the snide commentary by some of our fellow memebers in some of the posts regarding this editorial, I recommend checking your egos at the door. Let’s keep this fun and enjoyable.

    Once again, thank you Darren.

  • I live in Australia and over here Universe only aired for about three weeks, despite Stargate having a massive following over here. The haters, who didnt even wait a few episodes to check out the show, and their vocal opposition caused the show to be cancelled. It’s not fair to the people you liked the show, or to those actually taking the time to get to know the show before making an oppinion. It’s really quite sad, the lack of respect people show for other people’s oppinion. If you dont like the show, don’t watch it.

  • Really? So, To me this looks like he’s taking away freedom of speech from this site…. But, Whatever, He’s the 1 who made the site, and he’s incharge…

  • dude i agree, with ya. as long as it keeps ya doing the site and as long as you still love doing it. i’ve been coming here for years. for my stargate news and the what have you’s.
    sure sgu, didn’t hold up to it’s promise at first. however, it’s still better then a lot of stuff on anyhow and with this new episode, it’s showing alot more promise. i just sighed up today to let ya know that.
    ,

  • The negativism does take away the fun from the site and I understand why your doing this but I think you should of held off on doing it once the first season was over. After last nights episode “Space” people might start changing their minds about the show and might even like the show after watching the last half of the rest of this season. Ten episodes in my view is not enough time to judge a show. Star Trek The Next Generation didn’t become good until the borg showed up in the episode “The Best of Both Worlds” and that wasn’t until the very end of season 3!
    My point is that by essentially telling people who don’t like the show now to leave they might never come back if they think the show becomes good later on. They might find another Stargate website to go too.
    PS- I’m still on the fence about the show but “Space” was really good. I hope they keep it up.
    Also Darren Thank You for this site

  • I totally agree with everything said in this article! I’ve been afraid of posting anything in the SGU forums for fear i get ripped a new one for liking the series. I hope this is a new beginning for Gateworld! Keep doing a great job Darren and all at Gateworld!

  • @Skittles
    Thanks for writing down my thoughts :-) I completely agree. All Stargate fans are passionate and some just cross the line in defending their viewpoint, whatever that viewpoint is. Rudeness is never acceptable no matter what viewpoint you want to defend.
    @Darren
    Thanks for taking a stand. I am with you although I see the fine line you are walking here. I hope we can bring back civil discourse to the site and have once again lots of fun with our favourite franchise.

  • @Darren

    As I understand there is a conflict between “Right of speech” and “Right of NOT listening”. I think there is a solution to keep both rights untouched. All you need is to give a chance for the users of your site to decide for themselves who they want to stay away from. When moderators are banning someone, they are acting on behalf of everyone else. You could make this a personal choice by allowing every user to do the banning which applies only for what he/she sees from the comments. If someone has enough of an other person’s posts, all posts of that person could be hidden by a click of a button till this “personal ban” is removed. Or it can be refined to allow banning to comment sections, certain forum sections/topics … I would probably leave an indication displayed where the hidden posts would appear, and allow an easy access to the content of a single hidden post without removing the general ban. I do not know the technology behind GW, but this should be doable, the question is the amount of work it requires.

    I have wanted to say this for a while: congrats for the graphical design of GateWorld, for me it is really pleasing to look at. :)

  • I wholeheartedly support you in this move Darren. My own personal jury is still out on the SGU question but I’ll watch it for a while longer and if I really don’t get into it I don’t have to watch it. I mostly post in the Con threads and I’ve made many friends through this site. So I thank you for that. On the odd occasion where I’ve visited other threads I’ve sometimes been amazed at the vitriolic comments and the lack of respect with which people talk to each other. We are supposed to be grown-ups here. It’s rather sad that some folks do not respect the opinions of others and feel the need to disagree in such abusive terms. Bottom line…if you hate SGU so much, go watch something you do like and find a forum where you can have a rational discussion on that.

  • @Darren and the rest

    I don’t really read the forums or most of the comments on news, so I can’t say I have seen the extremity of the issues at hand, but knowing devoted fans who feel betrayed I do understand.

    I have to say that I’m not sure that taking commenting options away from certain news stories is the best way to go. I think a community voting system would see a better outcome, as I think that by just not having comments on specific stories will just mean that people will go to the forums to bash on certain news and will feel even more betrayed but now with the site owners.

    This is what I think would be a good solution: A double voting system
    First of you can vote a comment “positive”, “negative” or “neutral”, mind you the opinion of the comment. Those that don’t want to see negative responses can just hide those comments.
    Second a more rating based system as seen on YouTube etc. were you can vote up a comment for being well structured, opinionated and respectful. While on the other hand, you can vote down comments that contain no interesting info like one-liners like “good episode” or “this episode wasn’t good” and comments that are just unhelpful, hatred and bashing.

    Any system relying on a small group of authority figures will be seen as the bad guys and in turn the owners of the site will be seen as the bad guys. When you move that authority to the community there is no-one to point at to blame but the entirety of the community. And will be faster inclined to give up than if they are “bullied” by a small group of always the same people.

    MacWereld.nl (a Dutch website) introduced a user run voting system, a year in when it also launched its forum, where users who are voted up more get more votes to vote other people up and down and those that are repeatedly voted down see there posting capabilities first turned down to once a day and if continued completely removed. The forums and commenting systems are linked, and users have “karma” which shows the overall appreciating of there contributions. The system has proved successful and unhelpful comments have been nearly completely disappeared.

    I’m not sure what commenting/forum system you guys use or how difficult it would be to implement such a system, but I guess it would mean a substantial rewrite of parts of the forum and commenting system. But I think that in the long run it will improve the website overall and reduce hatred.

  • @ George

    SGU was cancelled in Australia because many people followed your suggestion: “If you dont like the show, don’t watch it.”

  • While I understand why this is being done, I also know this will only add fuel to the fire. Fans who have spoken against the show are already in uber defensive mode. The rumors of Syfy employeed people posting love-fluff on Stargate boards all over the ‘net with and without the knowledge of the mods, the preception that TPTB are not doing SG1 and SGA projects in favor of keeping attention focused solely on SGU and the rather heated TPTB defense of the show only to back track on their points later seems suspicious to me. My opinion no disrespect meant. And the fact that I feel obligated to type that this is my opinion in a post is telling too.

    SGU being so different from SG1 and SGA has caused a split in the fandom that could have been addressed by making and releasing the SG1 and SGA DVD movies. Part of the problem is that “old skool” fans feel like SG1 and SGA are being ignored for the “shiny new toy” (I disagree with this, but I have seen this a bit). The explanation that the economy is too shaky to release the films now holds little water for some (including me). True or not its how they feel; so strike one.

    Many don’t like the new show but worry/know it will influence any future projects involving SG1 and SGA (I like the show but I am worried about the tone). Jack’s darker, edgier personality resurfacing, the IOA power struggle for control of Destiny and the whole tone of SGU could affect any future projects. SGA and SG1 fans are used to a different tone in storytelling. To not use the SGU tone in future SG1/SGA projects screams continuity issues. Using it will alienate the SG1/SGA fans who don’t like the tone and production decisions. Like using the shaky cam in an SG1 direct to DVD project. So there is your strike two.

    Strike three; fan preception that they are being disrespected and out right ignored because the TPTB want a different class/type/group of viewers that they could not get with SG1 and SGA.

    Long story short, the fandom IS already split and it is only going to get worse. I have been here with another fandom and the train has left the station. Aside from canning SGU and saying it was just a dream some fans will never come back and will hold a grudge against TPTB for ruining the franchise. Ask my friends about how much they hate Michael Bey for his vision of Transformers. Or don’t they’ll just start screaming.

    I am giving the show til the end of the season before I make a final decision on whether I am going to ditch the franchise and wait for the reboot or keep with it.

    I am not trying to offend anyone only point out that SGU is not what I was expecting or actually looking forward to. I am invested in only four of the characters on a character heavy show. I WANT to like the show, but after looking at the first season if all I see is a waste of my Friday nights I will stop watching.

  • Hi David,
    This is my first post and I want to say thank you for your patience and all your hard work. I love everything stargate and am grateful that gatworld is here.
    If you ever want/need any help I’m sure there are quite a few of us out here who would love the opportunity to volunteer services!
    Thanks again!

  • @rambosmurf
    I agree. That voting system thing is a good idea.

  • Darren, I am sorry that you feel you have to take this step. And while I don’t post often I hope none of my posts added to your stress.

    However, I have to agree with mythos, some of the new rules are a bit vague and leave the door open for a lot of confusion. What is considered to be constructive criticism and what is considered hate? There are many posts that I’ve seen that could be considered hateful by some, but to since they were directed at the show and not a person I saw it as simply the poster venting their frustration over SGU or the franchise in general. So is venting your frustration now considered inappropriate for this site? Sometimes venting frustration isn’t at all constructive, but as long as it’s not directed at specific posters or even actors, and is worded appropriately, (IE no swearing and the like) I’m not sure if I agree that it should be labeled as a hate post. I, of course, agree that all posts should be done with respect towards fellow posters, but I think some clarification as to what is considered constructive and what is considered hateful would be helpful. I won’t post if I’m not sure I’m not breaking the rules, that’s just how I am, so can you help a girl out?

    In any case, even if I’m not able to speak my mind here, I will still frequent the site to get caught up on SG news. The site itself is wonderful and you do a great job in running it.

  • @Rambosmurf

    A Youtube like voting system could be useful, but the one in the Dutch website makes the majority opinion suppress the not so popular ones. I do not think this is fair or healthy.

  • @SpaceTime3

    Perhaps, MacWereld.nl is more of a help forum for problems and questions with a “play corner” were the voting system isn’t activated. This website has a more opinion based forum.
    That is why I proposed a double voting system, one which determines the opinion; positive or negative, so that people who don’t want to see the criticism don’t have to, it would have no influence on overall appreciation or the “karma”.

    MacWereld.nl has a single voting system up down, with only a choice in why (off-topic, chat-box, unfounded – informative, interesting, smart, funny, thoughtful) you voted someone up or down. The only difference from a YouTube like voting system is the karma which gives people who receive more up-votes more votes to give out. This works great on a question/answer forum and on the news-page now. I would assume that part might favor popular opinion here since this is far more opinion based than a, basically, help-desk/forum.

    The thing is, at least to me, forum posts like “this episode was great” or the exact opposite offer no real value, if you have thought and theories about the show those are interesting, positive ones and negative ones. But just “great episode”, “I liked when his head blew up”, … (I don’t really read the forums so I don’t know if there are many one sentence posts) isn’t really interesting. There is the GateWorld poll for that.

    This are just my thoughts and what is in the end decided is up to them. Just for the record, I like SGU and watch it. I do think it fades in comparison to SGA and especially SG-1. But I like the franchise and though every episode I’m like “that was a nice episode, but could have been way better”, I still enjoy the show and will keep watching it. But then again I do watch a lot of shows just because I want to know what happens even when I think the show isn’t that great anymore, but I already invested my time in it so I want to see what happens. There are very few shows were I literally walked away from.

    Off course this is all in my head and I probably can’t even imagine in what new inventive ways people will try to cheat a system. I just think that having a select, basically a, thug squad (no disrespect to any moderators, thats just what I would think when moderators would begin banning people for there opinion, even when it’s presented in a rude, unhelpful manner) will only be like water on a deep fryer.

    It is up to, and always will be up to those in charge to make the decisions, and there’s always someone who won’t like it.

  • Thank you for this. This is truly a wonderful sute and I enjoy coming here. I think people forget that just because you have the right to free speech does not mean you should insult and harm with your words. Sure you can but think about the other people’s feelings first before you post. You can kindly critique without being insulting and hateful.

  • Darren,
    I have to say kudos to you. I joined Gateworld about 2 years ago and used to post for a while. However, after the cancelation of SGA, I stopped posting due to the amount of negativity and “hatred” that seemed to be posted towards SGU that hadn’t even aired a single episode. There were times I would have to move on to another page of comments before I found something other than, SGU is going to suck or the producers/writers don’t know what they are doing and so on and so forth. My vote is still out on SGU right now after 10 episodes but I am still a Stargate fan and I will watch SGU until they either cancel it or it has an ending. After this move, I feel that I can post again without having to muddle through all the “hate posts” that were being posted.

    I know that you have recieved comments from those who say you made a bad move in placing this article and those who feel you are censoring free speech. What some do not realize is that free speech is offered to us as long as we do not abuse that right. When we start abusing that right here, you, as administrator of this site, have a right to do something about it.

    Keep up the good work.

    Gatefan1565

  • I also miss Atlantis because Jewel Staite is hot! They should guest star more of the SG-1 and Atlantis actors in SGU (like they did for Richard Dean Anderson). That might help skeptical Stargate fans embrace the new show.

    Space, the latest episode, was cool! Aliens finally–yay! So SGU is moving in the right direction. And I’m glad to have Rush back! Can’t wait for more episodes!

  • Well that settles that, I’ve now unbookmarked Gateworld from my browser.
    I’m sure I’ll pop back very occasionally to see if there’s news on the SG1 or SGA films but apart from that this is goodbye.
    I loved the site when SG1 and SGA were on TV, I could come and get news on all the latest episode and share my honest opinions with other fans.
    But I never liked SGU and if I can’t express my opinion about it freely then what is there for me here?

    Chances are there isn’t going to be any more of SG1 or SGA, so I can’t read news about the shows I like and now I can’t share my honest opinions because my opinion isn’t mild critic it’s hatred, I can’t help hating something any more than fans can help liking it.
    I suppose it’s all for the best.

    Goodbye Gateworld it was fun while it lasted.

  • I have been a Stargate fan since the first season and can’t wait for more movies. Universe is not really Stargate but so what? It’s a very good show with characters I like and want to know more about. I truly don’t understand the depth of hate being expressed and don’t want to read it. When an episode of a favorite show doesn’t work, making fun of it for a bit is fun(like the dreadful Smallville episode this week) but constant badmouthing isn’t fun. Just for the record, critiquing isn’t always negative. A critique is really a review with good and bad being revealed. It’s possible for a critque to be wholly positive.

  • WOW! Go You!! It’s about time someone spoke out to the community and attempted to find a balance while opening eyes and stating that there is a line between passive comments and assaults towards others. I’ve been a member of a fan-based Stargate writing/role playing community for several years now and I can tell you if we’d had a member like you who stood up and attempted to find this balance; taking great risk to yourself in doing so, I’d still wish to actively be a member of that particular community. Please keep up the amazing work not only as a fan and runner of this site but as a genuine humanitarian in the truly epic struggle to find self decency as well as the freedom of expression.

  • I have to say I’m glad for the change. Many people seem to think their “freedom of expression” has no boundaries or limits. Try standing outside a police station shouting threats and obsenities and see how long it takes you to get arrested. Use vulgar and insulting language in a person’s home after being asked not to, and you will quickly be shown the door. This is a private site, not a government entity, and the webmaster has complete discretion over its content. Those constantly complaining about “their rights” should exercise the responsibility that comes with rights.

    I personally have many grievances concerning SG:U, but I am watching with hopes that they will be addressed in the second season. Many of those who express hatred of the show and disgust at its fans were the same people who stated that they would not watch SG:U when the cancellation of Atlantis was announced. Some opened stated their plans to destroy the show even without seeing a single episode. I’ve seen their handiwork both here and at other sites.

    As for SG:U, I’m hoping the writers will eventually give us some real “heroes” instead of characters who are so deeply flawed that they are barely tolerable. Jack O’neal was flawed in many ways, but that gave the character depth. At the moment there is not a single person on Destiny who isn’t so screwed up or corrupt that it’s amazing they can meet for breakfast without killing each other.

    Here’s hoping for better times on the show and this site.

  • @kzap: Not to play devils advocate, but I think you missed some of what Darren was trying to say. It is still possible to claim absolute disdain for SGU and be within the rules. All you have to do is keep it on-topic and be specific about what you dislike. ie instead of just “SGU Sucks”, “Space still left a lot to be desired because while it was a bit closer to what the Stargate franchise has built up in the past, it still didn’t quite make it there and I really saw no point to the 3-minute emo-montage at the end.” And instead of “SGU fans suck”, “I completely disagree with anyone defending the idea that the latter half of the season will bring about enough changes to really draw back in the die-hard fans whom are wavering more and more as the shows continue to air and the ratings continue to decline”.

    @chaak: critiquing shares a root with criticizing, meaning to be critical of. While it is theoretically possible for someone doing the criticizing to be able to find no flaw whatsoever in what’s being critiqued, it’s pretty rare – and at the least nearly beyond possibility with a medium such as television in which, at the very least, one can complain about the commercials.

    A fan site is the proverbial hell’s kitchen. If you can’t stand the heat, it is time to get out. I, personally, would rather find a way to keep cooler and stay in the thick of it.

  • Darren,

    Good for you! I have been a gateworld fan for quite some time now but haven’t been active on the forums for exactly these reasons. I find these days I all too often run into the behavior that you’ve been outlining here, and that’s simply not something I want to be a part of. Now I will be able to explore the forums much more freely.

    As the owner of this site it falls to you to steer the ship according to your vision, and while I’m sad to see that people pushed you so far, I’m happy that you have put your foot down in opposition of the disrespect and hatred. Speaking as somebody that runs a large site myself, I know it’s not an easy thing to do. But sometimes it just has to be done.

    I believe freedom of speech and respect can and should always be tied together – it’s not one or the other. So, on behalf of those that feel as I do, thank you!!

    Best to you and your family,

    Shawn

  • I applaud your decision. It will hopefully make Gateworld a more pleasant place to visit again. Since SGU started, I have been so disgusted by the overwhelming negativity of the posts that I have stopped even glancing at them. (Still enjoyed the articles though, so thanks for your good work throughout this trying time!)

  • Hi Darren,

    I realise that some people may find your post a bit hard to understand at first (even I, at first, saw a close resemblance to the opinions that religious people have ie. their way is the best way and they are always right), however, when I read between the lines I understood that you were just trying to make the point that the fun has gone out of the site since SGU first aired.

    There are a lot of people (mostly hard-core Stargate fans like me) who have followed Stargate (and Gateworld) for many years. It’s fans like us that feel a need to express ourselves and share our thoughts with other fans about the show and its future. Where I think it has gone a bit sour is that some fans think that an open forum is an opportunity to disrespect other people’s opinions by entering into petty bickering and personal attacks on actors, producers or other fans. I must admit that I have, probably on a few occassions, mentioned that Brad Wright should read the posts on Gateworld..or..maybe suggest a few ways how he could improve SGU. However, I never went so far as to tell him that he’s a so-n-so or that he’s lost the plot. I’ve always got to give due credit to the producers for continuing to actually keep this franchise alive. Seriously folks! Where would we be without Stargate?

    Anyhow, I’m digressing too much here. I just want to say that this site rocks! It’s professional, is totally independent, is a credit to the people that work on it day in/day out…and I hope it, like Stargate, stays around forever.

  • Darren,

    Firstly, allow me to thank you so much for the website and the podcast. When I’m having a rough day I spend some time on gateworld and my Stargate fix improves things for me. I really appreciate all the work that you and your cohorts put into running this site and keeping me posted on all my favorite actors and any new gate content.

    I also want to say I very much respect your decision and the way in which you involved the fans of the site in making your decision. It seems very unfortunate that there are so many people who frequent the site who seem intent on criticizing your actions and the show. I don’t understand their presence here and think that they have been given more than ample opportunity to express themselves appropriately.

    I truly do not understand how people who seem to hate stargate so much feel the need to post on this site. It’s just rude. I am happy you will be refining the filter so you can still find some enjoyment in this. I applaud the tolerance most people have had of differing opinions and look forward to more peaceful times.

  • @clbourge:
    “I truly do not understand how people who seem to hate stargate so much feel the need to post on this site.”

    Most of these people are Stargate fans. Or at least were. It’s SGU that they don’t like. Stargate isn’t a religion. Blind faith isn’t needed for one to call themselves a fan. If this ‘flock’ thinks a mistake was made, people will hear about it.

  • I do admire your dedication to the site over all these years. I haven’t been visibly active, but I’ve known about the site and enjoyed coming here from time to time to read the articles and maybe check out a few forum threads.

    But this… this leaves a poor taste in my mouth. It is perfectly fine to require people to act civil towards EACHOTHER, at least if there is no favouritism involved. But actively and harshly discouraging (if that will be the result) “bashing” of a SHOW is another matter.

    I generally have no problem with people who are enjoying SGU, despite being less than thrilled with the show myself (so far at least – there is still hope for it). I do however have a problem with it when they try to chase me off, as if my opinion is such a grave insult simply because I’m not singing SGU’s praises. I’m getting a bit of the same vibe from this article, and I don’t like it one bit.

  • I read nothing in Darren’s post that disallowed criticism of SG:U. He only made it clear that venomous, insulting, and hateful commentaries would no longer be tolerated. Those stating that “they will no longer be visiting Gateworld because of censorship” are as much as admitting that they are incapable of carrying on a respectful dialogue. Good riddance.

    I find it hard to understand the open hatred shared by many of the critics. If you don’t like the show, fine; don’t watch. But the desire to kill the franchise out of spite by trying to destroy SG:U drives me nuts. It was that very same rationale that almost killed Star Trek. The “old guard” did not like Enterprise, so they instigated campaigns to smear it and remove it from the air. They succeeded in lowering the ratings to the point that there was talk that Star Trek would never see television or film again. Then, after complaining bitterly that there was no new Star Trek being produced, they did everything in their power to make the recent Star Trek movie fail.

    I know change can be skeery, but without it Stargate will whither and die. SG:U is dark; but then, so are most of the SG-1 episodes that fans call their favorites. The death of Daniel Jackson, Taelc’s sacrificing his symbiote to save his mentor, the good doctor’s death, and the episodes dealing with Jack’s guilt over his dead son are all gems in the series. They are all also incredibly depressing.

    Like it or not, any hope for future SG-1 or Atlantis movies hang on the success of SG:U. If it goes down in flames, so does the franchise. If you don’t like it, write the producers with suggestions. Don’t drive away current fans by spewing venom on fan sites.

    At least, this is my opinion. It is so valuable that it and $1 will get you a coke from a vending machine.

  • Darren,

    I know this was a hard decision, but it is the right one. I was tired of reading nothing but hate from some people. There is a difference in stating your concerns about a series or decision, and just acting horrible and hateful. Some posters said nothing but negative things, no matter what the thread or news item.

    Darren, I hope the day never comes when Stargate isn’t fun.

  • I love Stargate so much. I have all DVD of SG-1 and SG atlantis Im wating for SGU soon, keep it up, and I hope Stargate Atlantis Season 6 come back. i have idea for that, but i not know how to contant them about idea for season 6. Oh well.

  • I love this post. I really do.
    People tend to forget that Gateworld.net is not OUR website. This is Darren’s website and we just play in it. Criticism is always welcome and *usually* appreciated as long as it’s constructive, thought-out and, most importantly, MATURE and nonabrasive or badgering in it’s delivery but when you have the situation that Gateworld is in where there’s nothing but blatant insults, bickering, insulting and just out-right childishness from people that feel the need to constantly complain about a show that they hate over and over on every aspect of the site, even in areas of the website that have NOTHING to do with Stargate Universe like, for example, news articles on non-universe actors or even the Propox Auctions, and stuff the comments with nothing but immature posts of bashing/trolling.

    People seem to forget that someone actually RUNS this website because he wants to because he loves it and because he loves Stargate and, yes, the actions and immaturity of these people would weigh heavily on the heart of the owner of the website to the point in which one questions why they should even continue bothering to do so if it’s going to be flooded with constant immature trolling.

    Honestly, the only people that would have an issue with this are the people that don’t care and just want to continue trolling and complaining constantly about how they hate everything about everything on SGU over and over non-stop which makes people wonder why they don’t just change the channel or take up a new interest. Eventually, this is what tends to happen on community websites/forums when things get pushed to far and, honestly, it doesn’t surprise me one bit. Talking about how this hurts their “freedom of speech” & symbolizing a “Totalitarian society” well, this website is not the USA, it’s Gateworld.net, and freedom of speech is ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, limited to how much the owner of a website will let the people get away with. One should not get any disillusions on that fact. I’ve been on enough forums over the years to know that obvious fact.
    As far as Totalitarianism goes, well hey, it works in a school system. Elementary, Middle, & High-Schools have always seemed to function just fine on that system so maybe Darren should change his title from Site-Owner to Principal…or even Dean, because if the same people that do nothing but troll, bash, insult, demean, and cry repeatedly over and over can’t grow up then maybe they should be expelled because they’re certainly bringing the reputation of this institution down. This is not a country, this is a website; a website run by a man that DOESN’T have to run it if he doesn’t want to and doesn’t need our authority to make changes to it. It is HIS labor of love, not yours, not mine, not anyone else’s. This isn’t national politics. This is about one man’s love for his site, the stargate franchise, the genre, the actors, the directors, and all the people in the community that love the shows that love to talk about or even debate about the shows. More importantly, it’s about respect. If you can’t respect Darren and his website, then you shouldn’t be here. Drop out of the SGU class before you get expelled outright. Go to some other community-school that loves trolling/immature bashing run by another site owner that honestly doesn’t care. We only want those that can offer constructive criticism here while, at the same time, being civil & respecting the people on the site and Darren as well regardless of how they feel about SGU or anything else on here.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to sign-out of class early today…but I’ll be in attendance on Friday. ;)

  • Teach the children only the part of history that you want them to know and eventually you have a new history. Here’s a factoid kids. When the “Beverly Hill Billlies” was on tv only 89 million people watched each week. By the time we all grew up SGU is now watched by maybe 3 million people a week. Now is this expressing hate for the show or just showing that more people would rather watch “The Hillbillies?” You already claim to know, so I will just leave it at that.

  • Sigh. After reading through many of these posts I’ve come to the conclusion that the criticism of SGU is not the reason why GW isn’t the nicest of places these days. Reading back over many of these posts they seem to mainly consist of pro SGU folks attacking and insulting anyone who doesnt share their opinion and they think its their right to do so.

    I’ve seen no rampant hatred of SGU and I’d like to see some of these so called vitriolic and hateful posts. All I’ve seen so far are generalisations directed at fans who are supposedly now trolls as well, because they dared to voice their issues on SGU .

    As I’ve said before there are dozens of threads where SGU fans can go and discuss the show with fans who like it and there are no hateful posters to be found. I wonder if many of these posters have actually ventured into these threads, as they keep insisting they are full of hatred against SGU.

    SGA received its fair share of bashing and still does because fans and showrunners alike seem to think its fine to knock down one show to promote another, but yet I see no outcry over that. I have no problem with anyone criticising SGA or even if they thoroughly dislike the show. But I’m having a hard time seeing the level of hatred lobbied towards anyone who dares to express any criticism of SGU, but yet these fans are even more insulting.

    Those who have expressed their issues with the show have moved on and followed the advise to stop watching if they didnt like the show. I have stopped watching as well but have no interest in voicing my opinions anymore, eventhough my concerns have been mirrored by professional critics and now seem to be showing in the ratings slide.

    I can even accept curtailing any negative comments on SGU but what I can’t accept is the level of bad behaviour on GW by certain SGU fans who spend more time attacking and insulting anyone who has a different opinion to them, shouldn’t respect and good behavior go both ways.

    I wish you luck Darren with this new SGU audience who seem to mirror the behaviour of the bickering SGU characters and who will turn on anyone who dosen’t agree with them.

  • I can definitely understand where you are coming from on all fronts. Our own group has had similar issues over the past. Fandom needs to remain fun for people, otherwise, they will leave and seek other venues to enjoy. While many may have different pinions of SGU, it does remain our single active component to the Stargate franchise. As Stargate fans, we all need to be supportive, perhaps the writers and network will listen. Either way, we need to pull together as a community and rally behind each other. Otherwise, the frictions and factions will continue to tear our fandom apart.

    We continue to enjoy all the hard work that GateWorld has done over the years and we are willing to lend support if needed.

  • flmatthew:
    When The Beverly Hillbillies aired, there existed only 3 viable television networks in the US. Now there are hundreds, many of which produce original programming. To compare viewership of television shows in the 1960s to that of shows airing in 2010 is not really fair. By the ratings standards of that time, the numbers generated by CSI, Lost, and many of today’s most popular shows would be considered disappointing at best and a failure by most.

    While I don’t argue that SG:U has disappointing ratings, I do think it has done reasonably well considering the rigorous “cancel it” campaign waged by its critics. I predict 2, perhaps even 3 seasons of SG:U before the franchise is abandoned altogether. Unless there is a remarkable change in the tone of the fanbase, I severely doubt any company will risk reviving any Stargate series again.

    Stargate fans will soon be put in the same position that Trekkies faced for nearly 20 years with nothing but reruns of our favorite show. Therefore, I intend to enjoy the show while it lasts.

  • @ angel – well said, my feelings exactly. The most hateful thing I ever read about the SGU discussions came from an actor’s mother. I thought there was hope for gateworld when comments from both sides of the fans were allowed with the news comments. I never used the forums because they are so one sided, so I guess it is no real surprise that the news comments would follow that path. Yet another sad day for the fans.

  • I for one am a Trekker that has not had a show for a few years now, and it has sucked. We had a similar problem in our community about Enterprise, so called “Die hard Fans” that did nothing but complain about how they hatted what was happening to “there” franchise, as if they were the ones that had a stake in the program, but I digress.

    SGU is the first SG I have ever followed, I was aware of it but I never followed till now, SGU lead me here early this morning looking for some info, and I have been on this fantastic site for about 4 hours now learning about SG-1 and Atlantis, and can not wait to Start with episode 1 and watch all the way till SG-Continuum, all because of a pretty good show that will bring in more trekkies like me that see SGU as what Voyager should have been

  • First off, thanks for all your work! Second I agree with you. This is a site for those that love Stargate and if they hate a show, why do they keep posing about it? Keep up the good work, and love the podcast as well!

  • I haven’t read through all the comments, but have spotted a couple saying something like “I can’t see the [insert name of beloved old scifi series] on TV so I HAVE to watch SGU…” – FGS! Buy the DVDs of whatever is your fave thing and rewatch it to death that way. Free-to-air and cable TV are not the only mediums!

    And Darren, your comments about loving your (marvelous) creation and not wanting to ‘be here’ because of the haters … sad that a few maligners have done this to you – hope you can regain your passion.

    Thanks from the bottom of my stargate-luvin heart for all you work!


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