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Smith on SGU: ‘This is a transition for everybody’

Thursday - February 18, 2010
Category: ACTORS | Tags: ,

Brian J. Smith as Matthew Scott

Brian J. Smith as Matthew Scott

Rather than maintain silence, Stargate Universe co-star Brian J. Smith is responding head-on to criticism of the show.

In an interview conducted with RedEye’s Show Patrol, the actor — who plays Lt. Matthew Scott on the new series — made it known that he is aware of the negative critiques the show has received … even from its core fan base.

“This is a transition experience for everybody,” Smith said. “The tomatoes and lettuce and rotten vegetables were flying through the air before we even opened the curtain.  I think that what we’re trying to do is very difficult, which is acknowledge the fact that this does come from 15 years of built-up mythology and also 15 years of [a] very specific kind of tone that appealed in a very intense way to a number of people. And now that we’re trying to take what’s great about Stargate and make it accessible to new people.”

Smith feels that one of the best things about Stargate‘s fan community is also one of its most dangerous.

“I think the hard-core fans feel the same way that people felt about Star Trek,” Smith said. “[They think,] ‘How dare you commercialize what is so special to me! How dare you try and take something that I’ve supported and watched and bought the DVDs and gone to conventions and try and make it something that my next-door neighbor, who’s a jock and who I can’t stand, can get into as well!'”

“There’s a sense of ownership from a lot of fans that’s amazing and rare, but it’s also dangerous,” Smith continued.  “It’s a double-edge sword.”

Trapped on the Ancient ship Destiny, Matt and Chloe quickly found comfort in one another's arms.

Trapped on the Ancient ship Destiny, Matt and Chloe quickly found comfort in one another's arms.

Smith is also keenly aware of the criticism being lobbed at his own character.  Some viewers were angered by a scene in the SGU series premiere showing Lt. Scott having sex in a broom closet with a female soldier.  And additional episodes have revealed two other partners — past and present — with whom Scott has been intimate.

“If you ask me, he’s had sex with three people his whole life,” Smith said.  “We just happened to meet [all his partners] in the show. … It’s just assumed that he can’t keep it in his pants.  I think we’ve made it very clear that, with him and Chloe, there’s an emotional attachment.”

For more from Brian J. Smith on Stargate Universe — including his thoughts about finding his character’s footing, comparisons to Battlestar Galactica, and episodic breakdowns — check out the full video interview and transcript at Show Patrol.

The second half of SGU‘s freshman season premieres in the U.S. on April 2!

Chad Colvin is a GateWorld editor and convention correspondent. He lives near Madison, Wisconsin. Follow him on Twitter @ChadColvin.

COMMENTS (236):Rules | Report Comment | Trackback

  • i hope i dont seem dangerous but here goes anyway. I dont think that the creators owe me anything, its just a shame to see something great go so wrong and for what.

  • I think everyone that’s involved in SGU is well aware of the negative reactions. And it’s hard to pretend websites like and similar don’t exist. I don’t see it simply as a transition. I read a good comment where someone wrote that SGU, after removing everything that was good from SG/SGA coupled the leftovers with everything that was bad about BSG. That’s a pretty good assessment. So when Smith talks about using everything good from SG he is mistaken. In the several hours of SGU I’ve seen there were never any “wow” moments that I can still find in even Season One of Stargate SG-1. And that’s why 15 year old television disc sets still sell where SGU … well we’ll see. I believe in the industry his next door neighbor would be referred to as “bums in seats”.

  • There is no ‘wow’ factor for me in SG-1 episodes cause I watched all of them. It’s new to me. SGA had some great moments in the first season and, in my opinion, went downhill after that.

    As someone that watched Stargate since the movie and the first episode, I LOVE SGU.

    Sure some characters may do questionable things, but guess what? They are characters NOT ME. Sure I wouldn’t lock a marine in his quarters cause of personal issues. But he is not me.

    The show isn’t about discovering “what’s out there”, it’s about surviving, being away from family, and all of that.

    It’s a solid show that’s still growing. I gave SGA a chance in the first season even though we all saw the signs of what was to come. Ford wasn’t used much (for a character THEY created), Shepard/McKay show, rehashed SG1 plots, etc.

    But deserves a chance for a season and it’s not the same Stargate anymore. That’s fine. I don’t like rehashed plots, I don’t like predictable episodes, I like interesting characters and situations and SGU gives that.

    It’s not my favorite show on TV now (thanks Leverage, Burn Notice, Supernatural), but it’s one of my favorites.

  • “If you ask me, he’s had sex with three people his whole life,”

    Because that’s totally realistic. Not. First mr. mallozzi displays a complete 180 from canon with young and now this. Does anyone believe that scott and chloe are destined soul mates? They got it on because they thought they were going to die. Own your character’s horndoggedness, mr. smith.

  • I have watched every SG-1, SGA, SGU, and the movies. SGU is a lot like BSG, that is fine, but is not what I wanted to see here! I am and will always be a diehard Jack O’neill and John Shepard fan, they make great characters to get into and follow, and the way they acted toward Daniel Jackson/Rodney McKay are classic moments. I will continue to watch SGU and hope that it improves alot!

  • To be completely honest im tired of the endless criticisms. It has gone way past constructive criticism and became downright sad. For example on there just posting pictures of monkeys and saying they would make better writers, The Queen saying she does not approve etc. To me they have made a mountain out of a molehill.

    I completely agree that SGU isn’t perfect, it has it issues but there nowhere near as bad as some critics have been saying.

    I just don’t see the point behind continued criticism: Bashing SGU is not going to bring Atlantis or SG-1 back. Its a deluded thought that if SGU is cancelled that they will ‘take note of there mistake’ and bring back Atlantis. I don’t mind those who just want some improvements here and there but we have went way beyond that.

    If you don’t like SGU that’s fine but there are those that do, its rather selfish to go ‘If I can’t have my Stargate then no one else can have theirs’.

    At the end of the day it is just a TV show, the way some of us have been acting it backs up the image of what some people believe fans of science fiction to be like (The kind that go to Star Trek Conventions dressed up in a starfleet uniform calling each other captain & stuff).

  • For all you SGU haters out there, OK, I get the picture. Enough already. Go watch your SG1 & SGA DVDs and leave SGU alone. Some of us really like the show. I’ve been a fan of Stargate since the original film and have seen every episode of SG1 & SGA. I loved those shows, but they are gone. SGU is a logical successor and a really interesting show in its own right. I’m glad it’s different and not just a clone of what came before. I look forward to the rest of season 1 and season 2. Dr. Rush is gonna be really pissed when he meets up with the Destiny again.

  • I’m liking the show. If it was too much of the same as SG1 and SGA, then we would end up with the CSI curse. Where CSI:Miami was pretty decent, but CSI:NY just got to be way too much. If you don’t change the format of a show, then it’s just the same things hashed over and over.

    SGU is allowing for the actors to be more than goofy comic relief. I can see some of them getting acting award nominations for this series.

  • I think it is good that someone is saying something. I got caught up with SG1 for a few years ago. An after that I have watched the show every day.

    And SGU is different, something I think is good. And the show will soon be sent on norwegian television. And I’m so looking for it!

    And they who claims that SGU is not a good show, or will not be a good show, it is different, yes and so what. The SG1 and SGA ideas is not the newest ones, and SGU is the refreshment the series might need.

  • Thank you Gateworld for posting this article. It is refreshing to see positive feedback on your site. I honestly believe the negative over the top commenters are a minority, but vocal. It is past time that we see the actor’s point of view. I am hopeful cooler heads will prevail over time. The cast of SGU is highly trained and very talented. It’s time those that recognize this spend a few moments to remind them they are appreciated for their hard work. Nobody really know’s what they go through, and it is heart wrenching to see their efforts blasted day after day on Gateworld.
    It is my hope the tide is turning and those that appreciate the show will take the time to voice their opinion, and those that don’t will take the time to watch something else.
    Thank you again, best wishes to you and yours.

  • Smith, you are missing the point.

    Fans are not angry about the fact that Stargate has CHANGED.

    They angry about WHAT IT CHANGED INTO.

    Which a less than cheap soap opera with reality show scripts yet characters with literally UNREALISTIC negativity, weakness, and general patheticness.

  • I agree with gigitravels: I don’t mind them wanting to do something new with Stargate, to change things up a bit. But what they have changed it into is just too much of an extreme.. They changed it into a soap opera!

    Just because half the show happens on a space ship doesn’t make it sci-fi or fun to watch (unless you like drama & soaps). All the love triangles, daddy issues, sex, suicide, crying, and other drama, those kinds of change are what’s gotten so much of the community riled up like we’ve never seen before over previous “controversial” Stargate characters/plots/events/etc.

  • @Kosh thats exactly my point those issues “love triangles, daddy issues, sex, suicide, crying” have been over blown by the critics.

    Take the sex for example, out of 10 episodes there has only been roughly 90-120 seconds of ‘sex scenes’ (A lot of which you can barely call sex). But if you believed some critics you would think that SGU is just a soft core porno where all they do is have sex all the time.

  • The reason SGU gets so much criticism has nothing to do about it being different, its because its a slow boring soap drama with no resemblance to Stargate. If they wanted to take everything away that made the previous shows great, than don’t call it Stargate. Call it Destiny and turn it into whatever they want to. But SGA got cancelled for a show that doesnt have half the magic of its predecessors. If the producers had put half the effort into SGA ie, bigger budget, better locations and actually concentrated on more than one of their characters it would have surpassed SGU a thousand fold. That was what the fans wanted, a decent effort with more character based episodes for the characters they loved. That was the reason why SGA/SG1 were so popular – the characters. The shows didnt last 15 years because of the writing or the story telling, or the great locations, it lasted because the actors rose above the writing. This is someting that SGU lacks and it will be its downfall. The biggest issue from fans is that they have no interest in the SGU charcters and that is my main issue with the show. None of them grab me like the SGA/SG1 characters did. I couldnt care less if they were all killed off tomorrow. They are whining, lacklustre annoying and uninteresting and no matter what changes the ptb scramble to make, it won’t change the outcome because they cannot suddenly turn around and try and turn these characters into anything I would be interested in.

  • All this negativity reminds me of the Star Trek franchise, especially with Enterprise. Segments of the fandom would go out of their way to hate other shows because it wasn’t the Star Trek show they liked. I see this with Universe– some, if not many, of the SG1 or SGA fans do not like Universe. That is fine, but why do some have to go out of their way to complain about it? I have never understood that, but from past experience it is something that fans of Universe will just have to get use to (not that it is right, just reality).

    The sex in the show was presented badly I believe. 10 minutes into the pilot we get a sex scene that included thrusting, a very bad ‘position’ joke, and more flesh than previously seen on Stargate. The problem I had with that was that it was an unneeded scene. As far as I can tell it was thrown in there just to put it in here, like the producers were saying “See that? We told you this wasn’t your father’s Stargate!” (Star Trek did that to in the Enterprise pilot).

    Anyway, I am enjoying the show (love Eli), and looking forward to seeing the second half of season 1 (but please, no more episodes like Earth and Life! Those episodes were just essentially soap operas about who is sleeping with who.)

  • Hi there!

    I don’t think the SGU haters are a minority and I don’t think they are a minority. Seriousely, I’m happy that Brian is thinking about the reasons for the “hate”, but I think he’s wrong with the conclusion. SG fans are not dangerous, but yeah, probably a double-edged sword. I’m not happy with the situation at the moment, I don’t really blame that on SGU, and I did never attack the show, but the way it was created.

    If Stargatefans would be the problem alone, than why wasn’t there such a problem when SGA came out?? As far as I can remember we were all damn happy that whatever is happening, there’s a future for the fandom. The sense of ownership for the series comes because stargatefans, more than other fans, are more aware of the shows incoms, spendings and ratings and all they want is saving the show. I don’t know if I’m right with this, but couldn’t it be that the problem is that they feel cheated? It’s not the show, c’mon, after half a season we can’t judge SGU! What did you guys think about the frist half of season of SG1?

    Nevertheless I do partly agree with them. It’s not anger, but a feeling of betrayal. Not even because SG1 and SGA don’t get their movies, but because it’s all going south. WE ALL WANT TO KEEP THE GATE SPINNING, but there’s no “the show must go on” if the fandom, which made this show special, is dead. Stargate would never die because of Universe, it would die because of loosing what made it special.

    Fans have to be able to relate with the show. Stargatefans can’t do that if the fragmented core is fighting against itself.

    So my question to all the fans is: would we be able to find a way together?
    And to the producers: Would you be in to support this? Because honestly, the silence from the TPTB side is not going to settle the problem, they should be more active than ever and show that they too want this to go on.

    I never intended to insult anybody, I’m just a fan, thankful for what I got. I want others to get the same, I’m not trying to keep SG for myself. But what Stargate should pass on or other values that we’re transmitting at the moment…

    thank you

  • From what I see in SGU, I would say the core problem is that everyone but Eli is a majorly selfcentered jerk- the only character who this makes sense to me to have this trait is Rush.

    The show idea is an interesting one at the core but, in my opinion, the execution and development is lacking.

  • “If you ask me, he’s had sex with three people his whole life,” Smith said. “We just happened to meet [all his partners] in the show. … It’s just assumed that he can’t keep it in his pants. I think we’ve made it very clear that, with him and Chloe, there’s an emotional attachment.”

    It’s great that he’s thinking about the backstory for his character, but where on earth in the script would it support the idea that he’s some blushing sexual novice who is only know suddenly being waylaid by women into storage cupboards – did he suddenly swap his deodarant to Lynx?

    But it’s good to note that Ancient Silk Sheets is tv code for being soulmates with someone that you’ve just met.

    Is it just me or would it be more interesting if these ‘flawed and realistic’ characters really went for it with none of this soft backpeddling. Hell, make Lt Scott a complete horndog, they can put him into a sex addiction counselling group and Tiger Woods and David Duchoveney can guest star for sweeps.

  • The fandom of Stargate has become a lot like Left wing vs. Right Wing politics with the left fruitlessly trying to sway the most stout republicans on universal healthcare. its just not going to happen. And it only seems to have elevated for the people against the show because it does seem that no one in production agrees it was better the other way and it irritates the people in love with this show because they frankly don’t agree with people who continually bash it. Regrettably I don’t think either side will get what they want because the failure of SGU could be the final nail in the coffin. I dont see this show going much longer in any case because it actually is like something else in stargate history. If you give it some thought it is a lot like the original movie from Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich. That movie just did not hold water financially and was not reviewed very well by critics.

    But on the flip side if the original film did not flop there more likely than not have been a stargate trilogy and no television franchise. I think what is most irritating is that in this franchise could have ended with on a high note without SGU having ever been developed but now the only end I see for this series is to go down in flames. Everyone has to face that at some point Stargate fans on the fence with show will pull off unless there are some changes in season 2. And from the sounds of it thats just not going to happen.

    And the only kind of DVD record I can find to see how SGU DVD sales are doing is’s science fiction DVD bestseller list. SGU is #97 on the list after 20 days and was as high as #34. Which admittedly it probably was a mistake to release SGU half season but that is the worst any recent season of stargate anything has done on Where at least the last few seasons of SG1 and SGA as well as the SG1 movies got within the top five of the entire inventory of DVD bestsellers on And currently SGA season 5 is number 63 and has been on the list 281 days the same list SGU is about to fall off of after 20 days.

  • Wow, only read the first part but already feel to comment. He sounds a bit arrogant to be and “blaming” fans. Also using Star Trek fans as a really bad example… Hmmm I like this guy (not!). I’ll come back with more comment later. :)

  • I agree with blackhawlk. The problem isn’t that they made the show different the problem is that in an attempt to be different they went too far taking out everything that made Stargate great and filled in the gaps with a mash up of ideas from other shows.
    What we’ve been left with is a slow moving soap with annoying camera work and a group of characters that I find thoroughly unlikeable and uninteresting.
    TPTB told us these characters would be more easily relatable but we just ended up with a bunch of people I wouldn’t want to invite into my home in real life much less into my tv screen.

  • “I think the hard-core fans feel the same way that people felt about Star Trek,” Smith said. “[They think,] ‘How dare you commercialize what is so special to me! How dare you try and take something that I’ve supported and watched and bought the DVDs and gone to conventions and try and make it something that my next-door neighbor, who’s a jock and who I can’t stand, can get into as well!’”

    Well, at least now I COMPLETELY understand why GW discourages us from trying to presume we know what other fans think.

    Nice poke at geeks and jocks (and geeky jocks) with that last line, though.

  • I personally don’t like the show. I tried watching the first season but there was nothing of interest to me. So I rewatch my old SG-1 dvd’s because still there is a great deal of wonder and awe even after all these years which is what is missing for me with SGU. However I don’t see the point in bashing a show. If you don’t like it don’t watch it!!!!

  • @vss – I did find that comment to be a bit odd as well.

    Apparently fans are unhappy because of SGU being ‘commercialized’ unlike SG-1 and SGA (what?!), and are a bunch of convention goers who hate people who like sports, which is the new audience for SGU.

    Again: what?!?

  • @tablelamp LOL
    @Yes it was the Star Trek ref that got me a bit annoyed..
    Btw, this talk about a “character based” show, always gets to me. It’s probably more fun and rewarding for the actors, but in my opinion you cannot really have a show *without a story*. The story has to be core and then of course the characters need to be interesting too! If we just want to watch characters we could go for any old soap. Why not Top Model (good looking people, interesting characters ;-) and no particular story…) Combine good story (that gives a sense of wonder – that’s why I like scifi) with great/interesting characters… and you get Star Trek the original series (and SG1, sometimes even SGA but they should have developed those characters more).

  • I’ve been reading the Gate World forums for quite a while and followed them intensely for the first half of SGU. My biggest reason being that I wanted to know if I was alone in my dislike of the new direction for Stargate. However, I agree with Tanith and many posters here that while it’s ok not to like the show please be respectful to those that do like it. And on the flip side, for those that do like the show please don’t lump me or others into a group of SGU haters just because we don’t feel the same way about the show you do. I dislike this show for two reasons neither of which have anything to do with SG1 or the cancelation of SGA. My dislike falls squarely on what I feel are very poorly written characters and a very boring plot line.

    I don’t mind change, in fact a series becomes stagnant if things aren’t shaken up a bit. But make sure you change the RIGHT things. In my opinion this is where they lost me. SGU is so far removed from Stargate and the things I liked about SG1 and SGA that it feels like a different genre all together. I am still going to watch the entire first season to see if they correct what I feel is wrong with the show and my hopes are the writers have looked at the forums and are going to try to find a balance between keeping the show “different” from previous shows but yet still grounded in the things that made those shows successful.

    Someone else mentioned Star Trek: Enterprise, which I think is a perfect comparison to how many of us feel regarding SGU. You can only change so much in a series before a show feels unfamiliar. Once that happens you start to lose the people who actually enjoyed the previous shows. Compare Star Trek: Enterprise to something like DS9 and there are two polar examples of how to successfully update a show (DS9) and unsuccessfully update a show (Enterprise). DS9 kept the same “feel” as the successful Star Trek Next Generation whereas Enterprise felt like a completely different Sci-Fi genre.

    Right now, SGU to me feels about the same as “New Coke” and “Enterprise” did. Sometimes changing what worked to made the previous product successful isn’t a good strategy.

    My hopes/suggestions: keep the premise of the show but rework the characters to make them more believable and interesting. Find a balance between them struggling to survive and actually being adventurers. Make the ship more of the focus and oh…I don’t know…make the crew try to act like a group of professionals working to overcome their situation. And please, please, please quit using the long range communication stones as a plot device.

    Fingers crossed next half grabs my attention.

  • I love Stargate: Atlantis, but I could never really get into SG-1 after watching over 30 episodes (over the various seasons). SGU I love though. Granted, it doesn’t have as much action as SGA, but the really intense moments come from conflicts between the characters. Best cliffhangers on the show are the ones that make you wonder how characters will react to the actions, lies, etc. of characters like Rush, Telford or Young. Can’t wait for SGU’s return.

  • The main reason most SGA fans hate SGU is because our show which was doing fine in the rating(without them being spun)was canceled pure and simple so this could be made, asked at a con if a SGA would get a 6 season we were basically lied too and when it’s fate was finally told and we spoke out we were ridiculed and treated like dirt by tptb. Now I happen to be one of those SGA fans who does watch SGU because I’m a Sci Fi fan but to my mind it’s just a sci fi show not a Stargate show and with Atlantis and SG1 it was like I must see every episode and with SGA I bought every box-set with SGU I don’t even bother to record it to watch it again, once seeing an episode I’m not compelled to re-watch it unlike SG1 and more so with SGA. Then again I’m female and in my forties so I don’t count anyway, at least according too tptb.

  • @vss and tablelamp, the jock comment is funny. Is this show supposed to appeal to jocks? Really? Are my next door neighbors interested in a dull drama with boring and selfish characters? Really? Was universe really an attempt to expand stargate to a bigger audience? The ratings laugh at that.

  • I dislike SGU because I find it incredibly boring, uninteresting and with characters I have no interest in. Yes I am annoyed that SGA was killed before its time and replaced by something so disppointing, but I don’t hate SGU because of SGA’s cancellation, I hate it on its own merits. Brad Wright wanted something different because he was bored and he didnt care if the fans wanted this new direction or not.Maybe he may hold onto his new audience who like this soap opera in space, but for me he has taken everything out of the franchise that I loved. I wouldnt compare Enterprise to SGU at all. I liked Enterprise and as I said before I don’t mind change if its entertaining and Enterprise was for me, but that was down to the characters and not the writing of Berman and Braga. But SGU doesn’t have great characters, or anyone I care about and for fans who are not interested in the all the soap opera elements, SGU doesn’t have anything of interest at all.

  • @tablelamp:
    My translation: “The old fans of Stargate are mainly scifi geeks and the new show is dumbed down for a mainstream audience.” Because we all know the companion word that goes with “jock” is “dumb”.

    As I said, a bit of a poke at all groups of fans, IMHO, and one that probably was unintentional. But a sentiment that seems to be shared by most of TPTB.

    However, it’s that obsessed convention-attending-fanfic-writing-stargate-tattoo-wearing-fan that’s given Stargate cult status. TPTB gambled on that fan sticking around, and it’s clear that not all of them have. So while the numbers of viewers might be the same (time will tell if that’s true, definitely there are fewer than five years ago) exchanging fans for a general audience might not have been a wise move.

  • you know what? i don’t care.

    the ptb want sgu as part of the stargate franchise, go ahead. but how about living up to the promises made about the sg1 and atlantis movies too.

    the sg1 movie is what i’m interested in. that’s what i want. THAT’S IT. for the atlantis fans, they want their movie.

    have sgu all you want, but have the other stuff, the stuff that made this franchise to beloved, too.

    do the sg1 and atlantis movies!!!!! :(

  • I agree with the sentiment that the reason people don’t like this show is mostly because they wanted one thing, and they didn’t get it. It like offer a kid a lolly-pop when they wanted Ice cream! For those that were expecting another tongue and cheek action show, don’t watch SGU, it was NEVER advertised as such and never will be that, at some point Stargate had to “Grow-up”! Hey I like ALL the SG1 and SGA, for what they were but when you talk about predictable those shows are the MOST predicable of any show on TV, but still FUN to watch. Now with SGU the tone is seriousness, “People” dealing with “real’ issues with themselves and each other. I for one congratulate the shows writer and producers for making some real TV that is worth watching for more that just mindless violence and explosions, just for the sake of explosions and violence, kind of like watching a “B” movie where everything blows ups….”Insert appropriate TV show or Movie here”

  • I do not have a problem with the show writers doing something different. Its just that SGU is very difficult to watch as very little happens plot wise in the episodes. I agree with some of the other comments saying its just a soap opera set in space. The writers wanted to make it more character driven? Ok but not at the expense of the story. There are far to many episodes where nothing has happened apart from lots or talking, yelling or sex. I just wish as a sci fi show there were a lot more sci fi storylines. Thats what I watch Stargate for. I miss the ‘brothers in arms’ aspect of SG1 and SGA. The great characters. After watching only a handfull of SG1 episodes when I first started watching Stargate I loved all the characters and couldn’t wait to find out what would happen in the next episode. I now have all the SG1 and SGA episodes on DVD and enjoy rewatching them.
    I want to like SGU but to me at the moment it isn’t Stargate. Bring on the SG1 and SGA movies!!

  • They are trying to acknowledge 15 years of mythology? Really? They sure fooled me. “…we’re trying to take what’s great about Stargate and make it accessible to new people” You are failing. SG1 and SGA were Sci-Fi, SGU is a soap opera set in space. Aliens, bad guys, space battles, techno babble, Egyptian mythology, ancient technology. That’s what I liked about SG1 and SGA, SGU has none of that. Take for example the pilot SG1 or SGA would have explained more about the 9th chevron like they did about the 8th, they would have explained how the gate is powered in this case. They would have explained more about where they got the address. To a point SG1/SGA brought real science into the show. Obviously they had to make some stuff up but still they had a techy\sciency tone to them. Again SGU DOES NOT. So saying that they took the best of SG1/SGA is laughable. Why don’t they call the show what it really is General Hospital in Space.

  • I second everything Blackhawlk said. Thank-you for putting it so succinctly. Zach236 also had some very good points and I appreciated the Amazon numbers.

    I am still just mourning the complete end of SGA. I just love that show. It’s like the Wraith just got ’em all the way the life was sucked out of it. GAH! I want justice! I want to save them! Someone let me through the gate!

    Dang. I’m reduced to using my own imagination again. LOL

  • “A transition for everybody.” Well, I guess it’s not a transition for the old fans who don’t really give a darn about this new show. Seriously, why does the fact that someone loved SG1 and SGA suggest that they have to love SGU? And why does anyone involved with SGU care about the old fan base? They didn’t make this show for them and they don’t, or at least they didn’t, think they need them. Get more T&A, more reality elements, more Real World type characters and sell the heck out of this show to the audience SGU obviously wants, and then count on filing up any gaps with whatever carry-overs from the old fanbase you can garner. Wasn’t that the plan all along?

  • All of the complaining about the criticism is getting old. A vast majority of the critical comments are well thought out. The criticism complainers are quick to dismiss them and add nothing by wishing the criticism would go away. Critical comments will continue as long as the fans feel betrayed. If you think SGU is great then good for you. I suggest watching the show while it lasts – it may not be around for long, just do not dismiss fans that are more critical.

  • There is always going to be those diehards who resist change and growth. That’s what this show is, growth. The character development is top notch and is going at a believable speed where SG1 and SGA took a couple of seasons to develop.

    In the previous two versions, the minor characters only had filler parts where as on SGU, they are sometimes pivotal and critical to the show. They are also a little more believable along with the regular cast.

    I like the show and I see it as a growth of the franchise. The bottom line is, it is a show period. Recognize the growth and accept it.

  • @eteasley, yes, that’s very true. But suggesting that all criticisms about SGU are made by ‘Trekie-like fans’ or by people who are resistant to change are just strawman arguements and nothing more than saying “It’s not me, it’s you!”.

    I feel there are some legitimate problems with the show, completely removed from the fact that it is part of the Stargate franchise, and people, both fans and professional reviewers alike, have set out these in an articulate and well thought out fashion. You are not wrong to like the show, but this idea that people who do not are somehow lacking or irrational is laughably ridiculous and smells a little bit of desperation.

  • @eteasley

    Calling a mistake “growth” isn’t going to cut it. The ratings don’t agree with you.

  • Those who keep insisting people complain about SGU is “because they didn’t get what they want”, are just in denial and just don’t get the big picture.

    For example if Coca Cola is to suddenly change all their products from being sweet to salty tomorrow, you can expect the same criticism across the world.

    What it really comes down to is tptb doesn’t know how to manage expectations, in business we all know you don’t need to destroy what you already have to bring something new to the market,
    not to mention destroying 15 years of standards and expectation.

    Yes some people will like the new salty coke, but the thing is Coca Cola don’t have to call it coke, they can call it something else. And the same people who likes the salty Coke will like it no matter what you call it. That way you keep the old Coke market, and explored new ones with the new brand.

    Calling the salty coke the new and better Coke and try to fool the old customer into buying just isn’t going to work. This is marketing 101.

    If you insist on calling the salty Coke the “new better coke” then you are going to have a problem. It’s not going to fool anyone.

    This SGA > SGU change has more to do with midlife crisis than anything else, it has more to do with some people trying to prove they can be different, another word SGU is nothing but an identity crisis.

    Yeah the market may be “jocks” ($tupid), but 90% of the people follow the other 10%, and that 10% isn’t $tupid.

  • Its not so much that this show is not SG1 or SGA I like several other shows that are nothing like those two series. A lot of the criticism does seem to be well found. Though comments like the show is boring or unentertaining are just opinions and people who like the show just don’t see it. But that has been the cause of the elevated outrage that TPTB. Who replaced a good thing with a rather uninteresting soap opera. Now if SGU had been an even a little faster paced and the writers put some more attention on something other than these characters like giving some of these episodes more complex plots. I think the reaction would have been far less negative. Concerning the Cancellation of SGA for SGU and how far away SGU has been from SGA and SG1 story wise.

    I am not saying the show had to be either SG1 or SGA frankly if it was like NCIS there probably would have been less complaining. Perhaps a few questions thrown around like what does this have to do with stargate. But the criticism is fair because I think the fandom of this series at this point is 50:50 for or against. And if the figure is in fact that close there has to be blowback from irritating 50% of the fanbase of a series that ran 15 seasons before SGU.

  • Like sgakaz I too am female and in my 40’s. I have been a fan since day 1 and have all the dvd’s for both series and movies. I never missed an espisode and still watch re-runs on the sci-fi channel but having watched SGU I find that I don’t care if I miss an episode or not. It just doesn’t hold my interest and I would rather watch re-runs of SGA or SG-1. Where’s the great Jack/Daniel and Shepherd/Mckay interactions???? God the show is so boring, Season 2 is being forced upon us, why? Do TPTB think we will be happy watching people stuck on a ship for 4 or 5 seasons. NO WAY. Listen to the majority and can it now. I’d rather have a movie every 2 years or so than a weekly episode of SGU.

  • @hawkeye2 I liked your coke reference. To take it even further, Coke has tried many new types of Coke, Cherry, Lemon, Vanilla….etc. But the underlining taste in ALL of them was….you got it, Coke.

    SGU, at least in my opinion, does not that underlining feeling of Stargate. If I was an SG fan that had been living under a rock for the last year and and started watching SGU in the middle of an ep I wouldn’t connect it with SG at all. The only things connecting the two is the never used gate and the word Stargate in the title. With SG1 and SGA you could be channel flipping, come across a scene with none of the main characters and still immediately know what you were something SG. At least I could. I wouldn’t with SGU.

    My main reasons for not liking SGU is because there is nothing there to draw me in. I’m not a fan of soap operas and I know that phrase been said a million times by various people, but its the truth. This is no more than Greys Anatomy in space. Instead of being about science and exploration, and discovery, its all about who is backstabbing who, who is sleeping with who, who is suicidal this week and so on and so forth. Its also much to dark for my taste. There is barely any humor at all. I watched the first half of the season, and I really tried to like it because I like Lou Diamond Phillips and wanted to support something he’s in. But TPTB changed things TOO much and the characters leave me with nothing. Even Lou’s. ( BTW, if this is what the PTB consider “character development” I am SO glad we never really got it on SGA. )

    I think TPTB could have avoided this a lot and maybe even kept a lot of fans if they had just simply named it Universe. The dangers of putting a franchise name on something is that the fans of that franchise have certain expectations and if you don’t meet them they won’t stay. Much like your coke reference….without the underlining coke taste its not going to go far. (although…salty coke?…..eeww!!! LOL!)

    And on a side note: while I don’t think he meant it this way, criticizing fans for their negative opinions will not endear you to them. Be careful how you word things, Mr. Smith many of the fans are already pi**ed don’t add fuel to the fire.

    Anyways, I’m done rambling now.

  • @nell

    “criticizing fans for their negative opinions will not endear you to them.”

    Agreed, and this is why I call SGU an midlife/identity crisis.

    The producers are acting as if SG1/SGA is some bad past they wish to forget, and those fans who likes SG1/SGA are somehow enemies.

    This is very unusual in the industry, and it is just not the way to do things unless you have a desperate need to prove you are better than the past.

  • Yes, not all people who are “stargatefans” and do not like SGU are the same, but the same goes for the fans of SGU. I feel that like in most cases, people can see their side, and find it harder to see the other.

    And, on another note (not entirely related), people suck. I would bet that most of us would not be Eli – we would be a “backstabbing” and “dark” character. Its sad, but true, and something that SGU is following Battlestar Galactica in. No, not everyone is likable or developed as a character, but this is the start of a show setting up for more.

    I tend not to read what people post because most of all, the people who are writing are on the polar ends of the debate and both have a certain viewpoint on the situation. I say let’s see where things go for the rest of season one and into season two and if you don’t enjoy it, you are not bound to watch it – if enough people do not watch it, ratings will show that and maybe it will go away as well.

  • @hawkeye2 I have had that feeling as well. They probably don’t mean to, but its almost like TPTB are hoping the old fans will leave so they can forget SG1 and SGA ever existed. They have bordered on being and actually in some cases insulting to the fans the voiced those negative opinions. I think part of the problem is that their new baby hasn’t been welcomed with the open arms they were hoping for so their pride is all wounded. Naturally they are going to blame us, instead of admitting they might have gotten the new formula wrong.

    Alas in any case, with the word that we probably won’t be getting movies, I have started the slow transition away from the SG franchise. HA!! I guess, Brian Smith is right, I am making a transition, just not the one he thinks!

  • Many of you are missing the point and finding the production group as arrogant. Look back to all the negative posts before the show was even aired. Stargate 90210, anyone? Maybe it’s that they feel criticism is being leveled simply because it’s not SG-1 or SGA. The show hasn’t been given a fair chance by many. Other simply don’t find it to fit their tastes. The latter group is legitimate. For me, the show is not SG-1 or SGA, it is its own person. I enjoy it, though I think there are things that could be better. I hated SGA season 2, but I love the series. Universe is too slow right now, but when it picks up the pace, I believe it will shine. I’ll be the first to admit that it is the Enterprise of the franchise and will only have 3-4 seasons before it is gone. Yet, by that time, it will establish its place in Stargate lore.

    I love the charaters, because I hate most of them. Young is a disaster as a soldier and a person. Chloe is a waste of space. Eli is annoying. Rush is a lunatic. However, I DO relate to them because they are such messes.

    One comment for TPTB, get rid of the stones. Destroy them, throw them into space, make them have a limited lifespan. Move the show to a ship in another galaxy and cut all ties with earth. That is all.

  • @nell

    My guess is someone they care about or respect, has insulted them by implying “all you can make is shallow action humor”.

    And SGU is their reaction.

    SGU just screams “I can make drama too”, and that’s why they filled 95% of each episode with it, it’s borderline insane.

    The sad thing is even their drama is bad, if character development, tensions and love triangles is what you’re looking for, ANY drama show currently out there is far far better than SGU is, and ever will be.

  • @morrolan

    Your post doesn’t make sense.

    “I love the charaters, because I hate most of them.”

    This is where I stopped reading.

  • I think Brian J Smith is probably a pretty nice guy (the verdict from the con he appeared at recently) but he sure has a way of putting his foot in his mouth.
    Implying that the fans of the previous shows were the geeky ones who hate the jocks of the world and that now the jocks can finally enjoy a Stargate show is just downright disrespectful to the old fans, even if we are geeks. (or closet Jocks)
    Also, trying to convince us that his character isn’t a big ol’ horndog is laughable!
    He’s had sex 3 times in his life? The first time he knocks up a future stripper? The second he just finds himself pumping away in a closet while on duty? And the third is TRUE LUV on a runaway spaceship? ah, come on. Please. I would really believe the idea that he’s just one horny dude much more than that.
    Anyway, I think he was just not ready for the negativity that this show has recieved from SG fans and has, like most folks involved in the show, become somewhat sensitive and defensive.
    As I said above, at the con he was funny, sweet and a bit naive according to reports.
    So I hope things go well for him, I really do.

  • @hawkeye2 LOL! That could be true. SGU does reek of desperation to “hang with the cool kids” instead of being considered “the geek’s show”.

    And the drama is bad, like I said, I’m not a soap opera fan but even I can name off shows that do it better, Greys Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, hell even Gossip Girl gets it done better.

    Though I will admit, *IF* they had thrown in/balanced things out with some actual science and included an alien enemy and something that reminded me I was watching a SG related show, I would have probably stuck with it. Its the overwhelming angst, and lack of Sci-fi that has turned me off to it. Well, and I just can’t get involved with the characters, none of them have grabbed me. By the first eps of both SG1 and SGA I had my favorite characters (Jack and McKay respectively, tho Shep is a very very close second in SGA) and I loved and was invested in ALL of the characters by the middle of the first seasons. The characters of SGU have nothing that makes me want to invest in them. They just annoy me.

    I figured out another good way to describe why some of us “old” fans are upset about so many changes. Lets take Star Wars and pretend someone wanted to take it in a “new” direction, so they took out The Force, The Millennium Falcon, the X-wings, the Battleships, the Deathstar and so on but to keep it “Star Wars” they leave in the lightsaber but never use it and name “Star Wars: The epic”…or whatever. Then they create a bunch of new characters and stick them on some ship that was nothing like what we’ve seen on Star Wars and made them all angst ridden and backstabbing. What in that would draw a Star Wars fan? Nothing thats what, and that is exactly what TPTB have done to the SG franchise. And they wonder why we don’t want to watch it.

    Anyways, I really need to get to bed, LOL, work comes early tomorrow. Thanks for the discussion.

  • Death is a transition too, doesn’t mean I’m looking forward to it or that it’s a good thing.

  • So the producers, the actors and gateworld boy scouts like Tanith is sick and tired of criticism and negativity?

    I find that quiet unbelievable and amusing as SGU is ALL about criticism and negativity from top to bottom.

    SGU is dark, slow, boring and depressing and everyone is screaming at each other.

    For someone who claims SGU is the new best thing you would have thought these people would also enjoy the constant criticism, screaming and negativity to the show itself.

  • @hawkeye2: nice one!

    To me, the show doesnt feel stargaty. I know some will rip me a new one, that anything written by the authors cannot not be canon. But some of the writting doesnt even make sense.

    Theres the ancient timeline by Rush that felt like nails on a board, hes an Ancient expert and got that wrong, go figure. I suspect the writers wanted the non-fans to believe the story that an ancient race launched ships from Earth hundreds of thousands of years ago, millions wouldve seemed too far fetched. Doesnt matter if we piss the old fans, we got to get the new ones on board. Right!

    Then theres the usage of the stones. We went from, we dont really know how it works, cant even turn it off to, we reverse engineered it and made a smaller version that works over a billion light years. Funny! Then you have critically injured people and an old ship that doesnt work right and You dont even use the stones to get proper doctors and scientists/engineers that can read ancient to help. That i can blame on poor leadership on the destiny but back on Earth, after the debriefing, not even making a priority list of people to “send” over there…

    Its just bad writting. Ill repeat what ive said before, they killed the goose that laid golden eggs , and now more than ever, they will blame it on us.

  • @AmbassadorKosh27

    I think tptb figured they’d create a show that would appeal to the “golden” demographic, and so it wouldn’t matter if they lost some or even most of their old fan base. That’s why they all but publically dismissed their old fans and had no compunction against insulting them. “You all are a bunch of geek fanboys living in your mama’s basement or weird older women with no lives; we’re gonna appeal to the young, hip men and possibly any of their ‘withit’ girlfriends who might happen to also be watching. Anyway, there’s Stargate in the title; the geeks are gonna tune in, whatever we do….” I just suspect to their surprise that not enough of the new demographic have tuned in to make up for the old fans who have “jumped ship,” so to say.

  • @nell and phronsie

    Ya. You’re right, the goose is dead.

    SGU is like the well known geek on the block trying to join the “cool kids” club by faking cool and publicly dismissing all his old geeky friends.

    But he just isn’t cool, and everyone can spot a fake, now the cool kids continue to ignore him and his old buddies don’t like him anymore.

  • I actually don’t mind Smith, or his character (with the exception of the fact that he’s a man-*****….sorry Brian, but 3 times? Come on, I’m not an idiot, bro). And I’m not hating on SGU b/c it’s different (I actually thought the SG formula had gotten pretty stale by the end of SGA). But so far, from a story telling/dramatic standpoint, (the Stargate moniker aside) SGU just hasn’t sucked me in. Now I will say that going back and re-watching the DVDs has helped to tie a few things together that I’d missed, but the show as a whole is still UNGODLY SLOW and none of the characters, with maybe the exception of Eli, hold much interest for me, despite the best efforts of the writers to manufacture depth through loads of backs-tories and trips to Earth via the stones.

    As I’ve said, SGU is still near the top of my DVR priority list and therefore I’ll watch every episode of the second half of season one. However at the end of the first season, if I’m still as “blah, whatever” about it as I am now, then no one can say I didn’t give it a fair chance.

    Again, that’s not ‘hating,’ it’s just my two cents as a fan…..take it or leave it.

  • @hawkeye and nell

    I do agree with you in most points. And hell, your analogies to Coke and SW:epic hopefully don’t give someone dumb ideas of tryiing t out ;)

    But let me bring a little superficial statement in this dark discussion… I LIKE THE STONES! :)
    uhm…finally. Now that I outed myself, let me explain: Young is the only character that interested me. We all can imagine what Eli, Scott, all the others and even Rush are going to be. The only risky factor is Young. And the possibility to see his (ex?)wife makes him be what he is. But clearly he’ll first hook up with TJ before the problem with his wife is solved.Well, whatever, I don’t find the show bad, it’s to early to tell.

    But I do agree with hawkeye that it seems a bit as a sudden change. I can remember that back when SGA was in creation process, the wish for a much darker show came from the fans (not many, but some…and no petition, just a simple wish/question) and he said he’d rather keep it family-friendly. That seemed really important to him.
    So why this sudden change? And why this cold shoulder to the fans?
    I do understand that some of the criticism around is insulting and unfair, but people LOVE this show. These comments are outcries of fear and TPTB should see them for what they really are, not taking them too personally. And a reaction is in any case better than remaining silent. We should put together a list of what “our” problem is and then wait for them to answer.
    Something has to happen or it’S all over soon. I hope we all can work together to save it.

  • @hawkeye2 Actually, yes it does. Each character is realistic and I can identify with their character traits. If I didn’t hate them or like them, I would be indifferent and the show wouldn’t be entertaining to me. Perhaps I should have said I love the characterization. But you should have picked up on that.

  • Fans don’t like universe because they don’t like change. Really? Did all those Star Wars fans not like the prequels because they didn’t like change or because the movies were a poorly scripted mess with boring characters and that stupid jar jar? Different does not equal good.

  • I think everyone has made very good arguments but I think that there is too much comparing SGU with the previous Stargate shows as well as other shows like BSG. Yes, SGU comes from the same roots as SG-1/SGA but I think that it should be seen in it’s own light. It is still a work in progress as the writers themselves seem to be on a journey without any way of getting back and we have only seen half a season. Who knows, maybe it’ll get better!? I’m willing to give it that chance because up until now, I’ve enjoyed the storyline. Domestic equines could not drag me away! :D I like the fact that it hasn’t been “genre-cast” as either of the SG-1/SGA or even BSG but it is a kind of composite between the two. Some people may think that’s a cop-out but I think it is clever TV making where they take what they think are the best elements of the various shows and combine them. I’m not asking you to agree with me, just to consider SGU in it’s own light with hopefully a bit of optimism ;-) Keep up the good discussion!!

  • How many people would be watching the show if it didn’t have “stargate” in the title?

  • This “show” could have been named anything. It’s just *not* the Stargate series we all knew and loved. The characters are wooden and the writing not even barely passable. I will, as suggested, watch all the DVDs and enjoy them even more now that there is no Stargate that even comes close to matching the other series. We can’t even comfort ourselves that we’ve got an Atlantis movie to look forward to since they’re selling off all the old sets and props and even removing all traces of the other two series from where they were filmed. It’s over, people.

  • I disagree with the sentiment that its like Coke changing ALL their products, it more like they invented Cherry Coke and everyone goes….ewww but its Soooo unlike regular Coke, and because its different I’m going to Flame the new Brand and tell everyone How bad it is, and not just that its not for me, but that its “not for me, and everyone else shouldn’t like it!” Everyone of you start off with I don’t like it(That OK with me!), the you move on to all you reasons why as if they are true….its no a SOAP Opera! it is Sci-Fi, unfortunately it appeals to a mature quality that most of you ‘cannot’ get, which is too bad. Your letting inner-child at the dinner table say they don’t like it(like Broccoli)when you really probably haven’t tried it. It feels a bit long a drawn out sometimes, but I think the “set-up” is worth it in this case. When you are reading a book sometimes the setup takes a while, so you can have some new background to tell stories from. I am glad they are done beating the old Stargate stuff to death as that horse died a while ago, but if you all want the same old thing, then watch your DVD’s and stop trying to ruin it for everyone else. Opinions are welcome just stop trying to convince people to jump on the “hate SGU bandwagon”, that is what people are complaining about. just because you “think” that the show represents your opinion, the reality is always quite different.

  • I love SG-1 I like SGA seasons 2 and 3 were my faves but I still bought all the other seasons too season I like SGU it is different but it can be entertaining I think Smith is right on the money comparing us to ST fans similar but different the arguments may be different but reactions are the same. It changed from an action adventure to a drama but if you remember SG fans it was more dramatic when it started SG-1 was much more dramatic and emotional in the first 3 seasons. It’s not about a team anymore that is the difference and it is more adult now trust me there are plenty of male sluts in the military please don’t think that they are celibate monks read your history books about the children born during WW1 WW2 Korean war and Vietnam war they are not celibate while off duty or even on duty folks accept that grow up

  • @lmaceleighton

    I would like to address your comment “unfortunately it appeals to a mature quality that most of you ‘cannot’ get, which is too bad. Your letting inner-child at the dinner table say they don’t like it(like Broccoli)when you really probably haven’t tried it.”

    First off I think you owe a lot of people an apology on this forum. Insinuating that because someone doesn’t like SGU they are somehow not “mature enough” to get it is out of line and way off base. We are all entitled to like or dislike a show based on our personal preferences. You like the show…fine, good for you. No one is saying you shouldn’t enjoy it. But liking SGU doesn’t make you more mature or more enlightened than anyone else here on this forum. I personally watch a wide array of shows and enjoy many different genres including shows focused more on drama.

    The one thing all the shows I like have in common is I find the characters and the plotline interesting, which is something SGU has failed to accomplish with me so far. My dislike for SGU is because I actually find it less mature than other shows ironically. The unlikable characters, the plodding plotline and the general lack of thought provoking plots makes me feel like the show wasn’t very well thought out or executed. Watching people argue in space does not equate to thought provoking entertainment for me, in fact I consider SGU on the same maturity level as something like “Real Housewives of Orange County.” I actually feel they “dumb-downed” the characters and made them very one-dimensional. You look at shows like BSG where the character development was done around a central and interesting theme and that is why BSG worked so well. You didn’t like all the characters on BSG, but you knew they all were part of a central theme that held people’s interest.

    Where I think the SGU needs to make changes. First off, rewrite the characters into something that resembles what an off-site team would realistically be like. These people act like high school kids and not professional adults from a top secret military base. Lose the connection to earth via the stones. The fact the stones aren’t being used to bring scientists over to Destiny to fix it up and instead are being used to send Chloe and others back to see friend and family is unbelievable and a distraction. Make the Destiny a more prominent character in the show. While old and somewhat decrepit the ship is still really cool over all and most of us would like to learn more about it. But most importantly get a central plotline going that moves the story along at a good pace. Character development is fine but not in combination with a stagnant plot.

    Now, you are probably going to disagree with many of my thoughts above and you know what, that is your right. It doesn’t make you less mature or more mature. It just means you have a different opinion.

  • So we’re back to the immature children defense are we?

    Trust me, it isn’t that we don’t get what their trying to do. We do. And assuming the valid reasons we have given for not liking the show are untrue because you disagree with them says more about your maturity than it does ours.

    I’m all for slow build up in a story because it usually makes the pay off all the better for it. However if that build up puts me to sleep and/or I can’t stand the characters why would I care to continue with the story? Oh right, it must be because I don’t “get” it.

  • i don’t even know where to being.

    1; writers, producers, for the love of god man up. stop making excuses and trying to justify what you’ve made of stargate universe and take responsibility for your decisions.

    and 2; disappointed, angry fans, shut up. if you don’t have anything constructive to say, don’t say anything at all. what is the point of continuously trashing a show you don’t want to watch just to have it cancelled? i mean really, this is madness.

    moving on.

    there is so much negativity surrounding sgu that i’m beginning to doubt it’ll be renewed for more seasons. which is a shame.

    don’t get me wrong, the show it has its flaws; many of the characters are weak, the episodes are dragging on, and the supposedly ‘character driven’ story is turning into a soap. but it also has the potential for greatness with the whole plot of being lost in space, destiny the ancient gate ship, and the promise of new, more believable bad guys -something i actually missed in sg1 and sga – these are all things that i would like to see developed and incorprated into the storyline on a much bigger scale than they are as of now.

    i guess what i’m trying to say is you’re going to have to make some compromises with what the creatorts of the show originally wanted and with what the majority of the fan base wants, and bring some of the science and adventure that made sg1 and sga so good back into the series. it’s still fully possible to have an actual character driven show with the science and journey part of it intact. here you have something interesting and amazing, an actual space adventure with the entire mythology of the stargate verse as its base. you could create something magnificent. don’t run all this potential into the ground because you want to be edgy and different. you are not yet anoter remake of battlesat galactica, you are stargate, stop denouncing your legacy.

    as for us fans, we are going to have to give the team behind sgu more time. and calm the hell down, this is getting ridiculous.

  • I thoroughly enjoyed SG-1 and was tremendously sorry to see it end. I had mixed feelings about SGA initially but by the end of its five-year run I had come to enjoy the series nearly as much as I had SG-1. I am trying–I really am–to find something to applaud in SGU, but to date I have failed.

    One can strongly argue, they never should have cancelled either predecessor series. Yes, I understand the concepts of rising production costs and the changes in the Canadian economy and business community that caused them, and I certainly understand that actors will tire of their roles, want to do something else, or simply wish to end their careers. However, had no one at Sci Fi (I really hate the spelling change, by the way) ever seen such incredibly successful ensemble shows as Law and Order, Hill Street Blues, or St. Elsewhere? Both of the earlier series could have been continued nearly ad infinitum by using the same vehicle as those non-science fiction series used.

    Given that they did cancel those series and that they elected to create a new one in the Stargate “universe,” I think they have made a number of fundamental errors that I would like to see corrected, believe can be corrected, and hope they will recognize the need to correct immediately. The most essential error was the nearly total abandonment of every aspect of the Stargate theme that made it so popular with its fans. I’m sorry, but the Ancient mind-transfer stones just aren’t cutting it as a mechanism for making the audience feel comfortable that this is the same SGC we came to know and love. It’s a cheap substitute, it looks like a cheap substitute, and worst of all, it doesn’t help us like the characters.

    That is the second critical mistake I believe has been made. Deep down, people admire, like, and want heroes. Our heroes don’t have to be perfect, but they do have to be admirable, likable, respectable, and heroic at some clearly identifiable level. But I don’t see any on SGU. I see a collection of dysfunctional people not one of which so far has demonstrated a single likable characteristic to me. And, no, Eli is not impressive. Eli isn’t working as a major character and he isn’t functioning even as the comic-relief sidekick. Eli is a pain in the neck and ought to be sent home, left on some distant world, or locked away until he grows up and behaves like an adult and not a preteen stuck in a post-pubescent superstructure.

    The third mistake, as I see it, is an offshoot of the second: The interaction of the characters is just terrible. What made SG-1 so superb in my view was the wonderful chemistry that developed between the major characters. That and, of course, really witty dialogue (kudos to the screenwriters; oh, where, oh, where are you for SGU?). But we don’t have that on Destiny. We have those dysfunctional people lacking leadership, lacking rapport, lacking everything.

    How does the series address that? Mostly by throwing us fairly insulting bones, snippets of the characters’ private lives that try to titillate but really don’t advance anything. The ISO representative is a lesbian; well, fine, but what has that to do with the story any more than that Lou Diamond Phillips’ character is sleeping with his colleague’s wife (a troublesome thing indeed when those mind-shifting stones go to work)? The only “this is about me” aspect I’ve seen yet that I found genuinely touching was when Eli visited his mother through another person’s body. I thought that set of scenes was poignant, sincere, and very well done. Kudos for that.

    In a like vein, kudos for establishing that there is some genuine affection between the lieutenant and Chloe. Now, intensify that. Solidify it. Make it real. Give us people in real relationships, not a collection of folks who basically seem like they’re just waiting to die or kill one another out of frustration or ennui.

    I genuinely hope the producers will revamp and save this series. I’ve read other posts and I agree that the survival of the entire franchise depends not on the show itself but on the effect it has on a loyal and large fan base of widely diverse ages and backgrounds. Please, return to the original concepts. There are ways to do this; you have demonstrated with fifteen collective years’ of SG-1 and SGA that you have talented writers, actors, and directors and can develop ongoing story lines that retain their interest. At the very least, give us a hero. Just one.

    I believe and want to believe that the series can develop a true potential, but I feel that time is running out. My prediction is that if substantial improvements do not appear immediately in the upcoming season, this will be the first disaster of the Stargate franchise, and a resounding one at that. And I honestly would not like to see that happen. There is so little really good science fiction drama on television and in film; it would be nice to see this series regain its footing, develop a story people can be interested in and characters we like and really want to know more about instead of having quasi-titillating irrelevancies thrown at us for shock value. There is potential here. I do hope you will improve upon it.

    I thank you for permitting me my opinion.

  • @poundpuppy29 I’m a big girl now, I’m grown up. However, I think that this hasn’t to do anything to do with the sexscenes. Stories get told and they are never able to completely reflect reality. That’s why you have to pick out what you find important when you tell a story. I personally don’t hate the sex scenes, but until now, they are unnecessary for the plot, so I can see where the disappointment is coming from. Additionally, they represent the “soap opera” aspect and therefore are the first thing that is attacked. Don’t take this problem too seriousely.

  • @LionSix: Very good post! Even if I do not agree in all points (though in most), your points are really good!

  • Don’t have to like what’s been done and don’t have to stop saying it. And if you are a fan of the show, you don’t have to feel threatened by negative comments. Supposedly, those expressing such comments are in the minority. Find your satisfaction in watching this show you enjoy, I’ll find satisfaction in expressing my opinion.

  • (formatting issue above, this is a repost)


    Wrong, flat wrong.


    1. [“it more like they invented Cherry Coke and everyone goes….ewww”]

    Wrong, it’s no where near like they invented Cherry Coke, First off Coca Cola did not cancel the regular Coke product line just to make Cheery Coke. And second, Coca Cola did not take away 99% of what made regular Coke successful, they did not take away the hall mark of Coke which is the sugar and the CO2. So your example is bogus. And thirdly, and most importantly, Coca Cola knew when to pull the plug.


    2. [“they don’t like it when you really probably haven’t tried it.”]

    Here is the problem with the pro-SGU camp, instead of acknowledge the actual problems with the series, you go into denial mode and invent your own bubble to hide in by telling your self [“they really probably haven’t tried it”], [“it appeals to a mature quality”], [“most of you ‘cannot’ get”]. Which are simply delusions. And the overwhelming 1 star negative reviews on Amazon tells you why you are flat wrong right to your face. All you need is the gut to walk outside your little bubble and read them.


    [“it appeals to a mature quality”], [“most of you ‘cannot’ get”]

    3. TPTB explicitly said SGU is going for the new and younger audience, so when you try to brush off SGU’s failures with lines like “unfortunately it appeals to a mature quality”, you are simply in denial and is FLAT WRONG. If SGU was to appeal to a “mature quality”, they wouldn’t pick Eli as the wiz kid, they wouldn’t throw in random sex and shower scenes just to meet the skin quota. Secondly, you failed to explain why “it’s more mature”, because SGU simply isn’t, being mature means you don’t scream and yell everytime there is a problem, but SGU revolves around screming and yelling, everyone is acting like monkeys everytime there is an important decision to make. That is not mature.


    4. [“its no a SOAP Opera! it is Sci-Fi”]

    Arguing over dictionay definition is pointless when everyone knows the majority of the screentime revolves around classic soap opera elements. I’ve already had this discussion with the likes of you before, what it basically comes down to in the end is SGU is 95% bad soap, 5% Sci-Fi. When it is that obvious and you say SGU is “Sci-Fi” it simply means you lack the ability to see the complete picture.


    5. [“Opinions are welcome just stop trying to convince people to jump on the “hate SGU bandwagon”, that is what people are complaining about.”]

    Then why are you trying to convince people to jump on the “like SGU bandwagon”? The problem with the likes of you is you people act like you’ve never told people how good or bad something is, and I know you have. This is exactly what you are trying to do right now.

    One of the main reasons the Human race is the dominating on earth is because of our superior communication abilities. And from that we have the Word-of-mouth effect. Which is what the marketing department specialize in, word-of-mouth happens naturally and it matters, and that is why Syfy keep spinning the declining ratings, this is why sites like Amazon has a review function, and that’s why people use it. If you can’t handle it, don’t be a human.

    The reason previous SG series was hugely popular was partly due to the word of mouth effect, when you make something good, everyone will tell everyone else how good it is, you make junk and everyone will tell everyone how bad it is, you live by the sword, you die by the sword, to expect it only to happen one way and not another is just immature and flat out childish.


    6. [“Opinions are welcome just stop trying to convince people to jump on the “hate SGU bandwagon”, that is what people are complaining about. just because you “think” that the show represents your opinion”]

    Again, flat wrong, this is not what people are complaining about, people are complaining about how bad SGU is, nobody here told others to stop watching, comeon now, if you want to pretend to be the more mature group at least have the ability to stop inventing bogus excuses.

    And, if opinions are welcome then why are you asking people to shut it just because they don’t like what you like?
    Only fail-to-grow-up like you cannot handle well though out criticisms and tell people to “shut it”. We are talking about the show, yet you are talking about the viewers.

    You want to talk about reality, go read the reviews on Amazon, there is your reality.

  • @morrolan

    No it still doesn’t.

    And when you say:

    [“I love the series”]


    [“Chloe is a waste of space. Eli is annoying. Rush is a lunatic. However, I DO relate to them because they are such messes.”] and [“I can identify with their character traits”].

    That pretty much sums up the pro-SGU camp in a nutshell. To like SGU you have to relate and like emotional incompetent people who can’t make simple decisions without first chucking a fit, over and over again.

    And no, that is not “realistic”, in the real world all of them would have been fired and remain unemployed long ago.

  • I actually think Brian is right. Stargate fans have a sense of entitlement to the brand. The show probably wouldn’t be drawing such ire if it didn’t have the word ‘Stargate’ attached to it.
    I’m not a fan of the show. It just doesn’t interest me. I’m humored by the way people consider it compelling drama. Sorry, but I’ve seen Farscape, so I know what kind of drama this genre is capable of. Still, SGU isn’t a bad show, it just has a lot of problems. It also has a great deal of potential. I don’t need it to be like SG1 or SGA. In fact, I wish they would stop bringing ‘classic’ characters back and just let the show evolve on its own. I’ll probably watch it when it returns, but if I miss an episode, I also won’t care. However, I felt the same way for the last two seasons of SGA, which I thought were even worse than SGU is now. I hope the show continues to do well, even if I don’t continue as a viewer.

  • I think Zhane has a very good point. If it was simply called Universe a lot of people would watch it once, decide if they ever want to see it again and think nothing more of it. The full blown marketing of it as a Stargate affiliated production just continues to PO a lot of people. Along with taunts and decrees of some executive producers and the incessant in your face ratings comparisons with SG/SGA. Maybe if they stripped Stargate out of the title a lot of people wouldn’t be so worked up about it.

  • again, I think the problem would only be half as bad if TPTB finally reacted. What are they waiting for? Time is running!

    We wouldn’t have this discussion if we wouldn’t all care for the show. It’s on TPTB to make it constructive again. Ignoring the fans or simply labelling them as idiots or whatever won’t help anybody.

    And the coke thing is going to far. Guys, we’re playing in the same team!!! Don’t frakkin forget that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @Mentat

    Right, and on top of the “full blown marketing of it as a Stargate affiliated production”, they actually went a step further by marketing it as the new and “Better” Stargate.

    You can tell from their tones and remarks they consider SG1/SGA inferior, and so are the 15 years of fans who likes them.

    This arrogant, ungrateful and down right insulting attitude is simply begging to get flamed, especially when SGU is subpar and doesn’t live up to all the spin and hype.

    Like I said, if Coca Cola replaced all sweet Coke with salty ones and claim it is the “better” Coke, and tell you if you don’t like it then you simply have bad taste.

    People will simply continue to ridicule it until the end of time.

  • SGU is the Michael Jackson of Sci-Fi, it was great, it was king, it rocked the world, but then it self-destructed to the point of no return.

    There are still fans, but it is just not what it used to be, not even close.

    You heard it here first.

  • I think it is almost unprecedented for fans to be so angry

    To me this shows how loved SG-1 and SGA were

    And how disliked SGU is

    I have already come to terms with Stargate being no more, so I wouldn’t feel resentment by now if the producers weren’t acting with such vanity and elitism towards their ex-fans.

    It’s a pity.

  • I have read the good points and the not so good points made by fellow fans about SGU. Everyone has their own opinion (even if they are all wrong)!!
    My point is simply that this is a new show, with new characters we don’t really know, in a situation they have never found themselves in. It is difficult to assess the quality or the long term viability of this show based on the first few airings of SGU on it’s maiden voyage. I haven’t seen enough of SGU yet to form any solid impression of the characters or the long term plot line, but I will say Im willing to give the show a chance still to hook me in.
    The problem for me has been this long gap in the middle of the first season. Who’s bright idea was it to have a mid season finale anyway? It’s been so long I don’t even remember the names of half of these new underdeveloped characters and plot lines. The mid season break left me high and dry!! I was like… “Oh cool, they’ll show the rest in a couple of weeks!” I’m still waiting, and am beginning to lose interest. I figured they were filming the rest of the season, but have learned since that all the first season is “in the can”. This split season concept is the single most detrimental issue to me about this brand new show, and has succeeded in destroying what little momentum the show has, in my opinion. BAD CHOICE, network executives!! Way to drop a new show DEAD it in it’s tracks!!
    I do see some merit in the acting, the sets are cool, we have a whole ship full of Ancient’s technology to explore, a Stargate on board and on line, and are on a pre-determined course to even more interesting discoveries and plot lines!! This show is a writers dream!! The possibilities are limited only by their imagination! This could really be a great program!! One thing though…. QUIT STALLING!! Just get the show back on the air!! And if you need some ideas to keep things interesting, I’ll be happy to join your writing staff!

  • @AudioWizzard
    “My point is simply that this is a new show, with new characters we don’t really know, in a situation they have never found themselves in. It is difficult to assess the quality or the long term viability of this show based on the first few airings of SGU on it’s maiden voyage. I haven’t seen enough of SGU yet to form any solid impression of the characters or the long term plot line, but I will say Im willing to give the show a chance still to hook me in.”

    There has been like 10 hours of SGU so far. How many hours does it take to get to know these characters? Most of this time has been dedicated to so-called “character development”.

    With SG1 and SGA I was drawn in on the first hour. Endless hours of “character development” was not need because the show was exciting. All this talk about “character development” is just excuses covering up the obvious rubbish. There are not going to be any exciting plots for SGU, “character development” is the whole plot.

  • “This show is a writers dream!! The possibilities are limited only by their imagination! This could really be a great program!!”

    Bringing the Lucian Alliance back as the bad guys, on top of all the cliched drama elements and stereotyped characters more or less proves in my book that these writers have hit the limits of their imagination.

  • @hawkeye2 Oh really, so there are no emotionally unstable or seriously flawed people in leadership positions? What fantasy world do you live in? Bernard Madoff, Jeffery Skilling, Bernie Ebbers are perfect examples of flawed character traits in the “real world.” And they wielded great power and authority.

    I find it amusing that the people who dislike the show feel their opinions carry more weight than those of the ones that do. You don’t like it? Stop watching it. You do like it? Continue supporting Stargate and the show. It really is that simple. Feel free to complain all you want, just know that your ranting is just falling on deaf ears.

  • @morrolan

    “so there are no emotionally unstable or seriously flawed people in leadership positions?”

    That wasn’t even what I said, ROFL if you can’t come up with proper comeback for my solid points, then don’t attempt to reply. The way they act wouldn’t even pass the psycological screening to land them those positions in the first place. The stones device wouldn’t be allowed for personal used by untrained civilians, etc etc, the gigantic list of nonsense goes on and on.

    But what can we expect from someone who said “I love them beacuse I hate all of them”, dude make up your mind before posting nonsense, when even the pro-SGU camp say they have to hate SGU to like it, it pretty much sums up how bad SGU is.

    If you really believe in what you said then you wouldn’t even have replied me.

  • “Feel free to complain all you want, just know that your ranting is just falling on deaf ears.”

    I would not say that. Yes, TPTB will not listen but the advertises that pay the bills are all ears.

  • Do this exercise in your head. Rename the show Destiny instead of SGU. Remove the stargate from the ship, cause who needs a gate when you have shuttles.

    What do you get? A boring space show.

    SG1 was about Egyptian mythology and the false gods the Goa’uld. SGA was about the Ancients, their great city and the ennemies that brought them down.

    As of now, SGU is about a bunch of unqualified SGC personnel that know nothing about anything, stuck on a ship that they know nothing about except for one guy who looks more like a fraud than anything else.

    How is this Stargate in any way, seriously? Before, we used to be impressed by the ingenuity of the characters, the science, the enormity of the tasks they had to accomplish. They were heroes that we wanted to associate with, ready to die being tortured for days, for the greater good. Now the only hero is dead, sitting in a shuttle wondering why those selfish meatbags didnt took the time to use those super advanced spacesuits to come get him and give him the funeral he deserves.

  • First Brad Wright blames the lack of enthusiasm on the fans not being cerebral enough to ‘get’ his show. Now we have Brian Smith claiming that we hate that it’s been dumbed down so that the ‘jock next door’ can get it. You can’t have it both ways, guys. And funny, but I don’t recall Jack O’Neill being a character that the guy next door wouldn’t ‘get’.

    Have you read the reviews? Mo Ryan? Or the reviews of the DVD release? The problems with this show are *not* the fault of the fans. The new show has taken all the good, fun elements out of the franchise (*likable* characters, a sense of humor, a mission, a PLOT) and left it only with people who piss and moan about their situation and make really bad decisions as a result. Whatever happened to adversity bringing out the best in people?

    What Mr. Wright and Mr. Cooper obviously don’t understand is that we watched their previous shows *in spite* of plotholes you could drive a train through and uneven, often campy writing. We were invested in the characters, we wanted to spend some time with them each week. I wouldn’t let anyone from Destiny in my front door.

  • I started watching SGU and got about to episode 5 of 10 and just forgot about it thats a bad sign, I used to be really excited waiting for the next SG1 Episode I wish they would bring back SG1 With the exception of rush all the characters in sgu are rubbish.

    btw im a longtime stargate fan bought all the boxsets watched all the shows

  • @ morrolan
    You stated “I love the charaters, because I hate most of them. Young is a disaster as a soldier and a person. Chloe is a waste of space. Eli is annoying. Rush is a lunatic. However, I DO relate to them because they are such messes.”

    This is exactly why I cannot relate to any of them nor care about what happens to them. I get enough of that in real life. When I sit down to my entertainment, I don’t want more of the same.

  • @morrolan:
    “Stop watching it. You do like it? Continue supporting Stargate and the show. It really is that simple.”

    This attitude is exactly what started the problem. If you think that a Stargatefan simply leaves the franchise just because he’s not really into the first half of the first season is rubbish. It’s even insulting two other shows! I’M NOT AGAINST SGU, but still, I prefer the ANTI SGU camp. you know why?

    Because they think that TPTB can do better. However, their arrogance ruins everything.

    We maybe wanted more character development in SG1 and SGA. But that was different. It wasn’t a show ABOUT character development!

    Almost everybody that chriticized the show,also complained about TPTB. And howo is TPTB helping? In waiting and hoping that it’ll all solve itself out. And that’s not going to happen.

    And as Uncle Al said above, if TPTB is not listening, other important people do. With all the respect I have for TPTB I hope they don’t ignore this discussion. A split fandom is in no case a reason to be proud of.

  • @etealey:
    You said: “I like the show and I see it as a growth of the franchise. The bottom line is, it is a show period. Recognize the growth and accept it.”

    I have no problems with the fact that you like the show. I don’t. It would seem I’m not alone. Perhaps that is something that everyone involved with SGU needs to simply accept as well, but the smarter thing to do would be to ask themselves *why*. Instead, they seem to be intent on making the problem someone else’s fault.

  • @LionSix:

    You said “That is the second critical mistake I believe has been made. Deep down, people admire, like, and want heroes. Our heroes don’t have to be perfect, but they do have to be admirable, likable, respectable, and heroic at some clearly identifiable level. But I don’t see any on SGU. I see a collection of dysfunctional people not one of which so far has demonstrated a single likable characteristic to me.”

    This. Yes. Absolutely. They don’t have to be larger than life or ‘square-jawed’ (that phrase keeps coming up in comments by TPTB) but we need heroes to believe in. To root for. To *like* watching each week.

  • This show is just very confused as to it’s target audience. In my opinion, they are overshooting their own expectations with regards to viewer range and hence meeting no ones taste 100%. Cause really, who the heck do you want your viewers to be? [Heavy stereotyping ahead… be warned.]

    Jocks – People who are certainly all for “character driven” (soap opera) style shows. Not. So for jocks? 90% fail right from the get go. Well… just throw in some good looking people, sex- references, gunfights, explosions and cool aliens. Wait… we are still waiting for the cool aliens… and the explosions… and, you know, regular gunfights. There mainly is shouting at each other (which, incidentally, is not the “jock way” to go about conflict, or is it?).

    Geeks – the cerebral audience probably drawn to character driven shows. Only, the “character driven” got dumbed down into soap opera style who gets it on with whom. Not the kind of show you can really enjoy having a geeky discussion about. Never mention the hideous breaks in logic. They have been expounded upon enough.

    Military nerds – Establish, the hell, a command structure for gods sake! The guy who should be the top dog is just flat out refusing to take on command and way more occupied whith bullying people around the spaceship and the homefront than would ever make sense in this situation. While the second in command might or might not be a horndog he sure does have little authority over the rest of the soldiers. That’s not any better from the civillian side. No one really interested in taking the there also.

    old school stargate fans – Sure, just insult them as outdated *because* they are fans of either previous series. Smooth going and so endearing those people to the new show… [note sarcasm].

    traditional soap opera watchers – Well, it’s on a spaceship. And this ship is pointlessly going…uh… somewhere way out there in the universe. And they… like… have the communication devices which, really enable most of the soap opera drama… only… isn’t that a bit complicated? And they have references to past shows I don’t get.

    Just please decide on an audience already, it will solve major problems!

  • For those real stargate fan totaly sick of this drama and charbuilding crap. Altho a bit can enrish a show like SG1 and SGA. But if it not in the natural story flow, like its forced in. It can do more harm. Like latest SGA. And way to much will be a disaster. Unlike you want to attrack soapies.

    For those back stabbed fans. Wenn avaible Buy SGU DVD rip it and edit all the crap out of it. You might end up with halve or less the airtime. But that would make a more quality mini series.

    And I would keep the sex scene but edit the guy out of it.

    I also would make it lineair story flow.

    The char I like most is destiny
    Then ELI
    Then Greer.

    So I keep watching SGU. Not directly because I want the bility to do FFW trough tomuch crap airtime.

    Did that to with last season of BSG. FFW and the show get better.

    Because there isn’t much else new in my fav genre I keep watch it. Like 10 time more then docter who. It doesn’t have to be perfect but I have some tresshold. I watch lesser show to. As they do entertain. But there is a limit.

    But then again this are the first halve of a season. Hope it’s get better. It’s nice to know the notice the massive critism. Hope the do somthinh with it. But got the impression the don’t

  • @Kelara:
    Wow! But now I’m outdated!? Damnit! Stargate was always so “in” ;) jk, great post!

  • @Kelara:

    They have already decided their audience:
    1. Make sure everyone keep screaming thinking that is drama so the bimb0s will tune in.
    2. Use the Eli character, add a few sex scenes here and there so the teenagers will tune in.
    3. Add some adult drama (husband and wife cheating) so the “mature” audience will tune in.
    4. Lastly, call it Stargate: something, make sure the gate spins again this time, all the geeks will tune in just because of the gate and the title.

    This was their perfect plan.

  • Darren Sumner


    Hi, folks. While we want to encourage discussion and freedom of expression at GateWorld, we also have rules. I’ve had to edit and delete many posts, and place a few people on moderation because of this thread.

    The most important rule for this discussion is #3: Treat others with respect, be they other posters, actors, or the show’s producers. You can critique, criticize, and express your disappointment without resorting to personal insults. You can find a way to express yourself with tact and courtesy.

    I think that our rules are rather permissive. In fact, we get hammered from the other side for allowing as much as we do. But you will follow the rules if you want to continue to be allowed to post.

    We usually try to Edit inappropriate comments out of posts to save the rest of what you have to say. From this point on, however, I’m just going to use the Delete button if I have any doubts about whether a post is within the rules.

  • Yeah, my point exactly. Plan fail due to mishmash target- audience fail:

    -“call it Stargate […] the gate spins […] all the geeks will tune in” then switch to

    – “everyone […] screaming” for the “bimb0s” (Geeks go: “Huh?! How undignified! Do something worthwhile, you’re on a spaceship… *lost in space*!”; Teenagers go “Huh. Bitchfight. Boring.”; Adults munch on popcorn). Switch to

    – “Eli character” for the teenagers (Geeks go: “Lazy computer gamez kiddy iz not the same az geek!”; Bimb0s go: “Huh, no eye candy in this one. Where’s alle the hot guys/gals?”; Adult audience go: “Huh, the prototypical gamer kid. Let’s leve the kids to watch it.”). Switch to:

    – “sex scenes” for the teenagers (?) (Adult audience go: “What?! Get the kids away from the TV set right now!”; Bimb0s go: “Huh. How’d they shack up? And does the hot guy have a name?”; Geeks go: “Huh, kinda pointless, what with no buildup and/ or explanation, not to mention motivation.”)

    And don’t get me started on military wannabe top dog’s homestory plot. I will severely exceed comment limits ;o).

    As soon as they set an actual target an keep to it, they’ll be fine. The new audience might actually start to really support the show. Not with the half- assed “I will give it another shot in the second half of the first season.” That’s not true fan support, is it? And the rest will finally give up trying to make changes that would make *their* target group happier. Plus maybe stop flaming so much.

    I’d like that for the actors, too, because I feel they are taking the brunt of the plan- fail and they really don’t deserve that. They should have an equally supportive fanbase like sg and sga… if TPTB ever allows that show to form a consistent fanbase *sigh*.

  • Thanks Darren, really appreciated. I don’t think you allow too much, if you wouldn’t allow such discussions you wouldn’t be a website for fans. And, if you wouldn’t be that, there would be much more people creating other hate sites.

    The quicker this argmuent (yes, I call it argument!) can be settled, the better. (<–TPTB, are you reading?)

  • @Kelara

    So what exactly is the “military wannabe top dog’s homestory plot”? ;)

  • I understand how hard it can be for an actor when the audience and critics do not like his work or the show he’s working on. It’s second nature to be defensive and blame everyone but the cast, crew, writers, and show-runners — as we can see Mr. Smith doing here. But the show’s lack of success is not the fault of the audience, it is entirely the fault of the people who created and work on SGU. They saw the success of BSG and hoped that copying its muddy film, shaky-cam, and unhappy/unpleasant characters would bring them similar success, but they do not have the talent to create high art — they created only boredom. They should have stuck with SG’s usual entertaining penny-dreadful plots and good-guy action heroes, stealing bits from Star Wars and Star Trek with a knowing wink, never daring to think that what they were doing was anything more than giving the audience an hour of fun space opera.

    BTW, Mr. Smith, an officer having sex with someone of a lower rank in his command is against military law, even if they are of the opposite sexes, and it doesn’t matter if the idiot in question only slept with three women his whole life. If they’d gone on to show the court martial of the little creep, or at least getting into some sort of trouble and somehow paying for his douchery, now *that* would have held my interest!

  • I’m new to the Stargate shows. I never watched SG-1 or SGA. The only information I’ve gotten about the story came from the movie, which I loved. I started watching SGU because I saw a promo and noticed that Robert Carlyle was in it. I watched the first episode and I liked it. Why? Because it wasn’t only sci fi but also a character drama and I really got hooked by the combination of both as well as the very talented actors working on it. I’m a fan of procedurals like CSI NY, Criminal Minds and Law & Order. I like Castle and Medium. I’m not into sci fi shows very often. So I really like the approach taken by the writers with SGU. I do not understand why it seems like everyone is complaining about everything. This is a TV show which should entertain and sometimes foster thinking and/or reflecting on a given topic. So I think people should relax and enjoy instead of investing such amounts of time and energy into criticizing and complaining. And most importantly, be really open minded and less change resistant; maybe focus a little on the fact that the franchise is being discovered by new people all over the world, that may like it. I’m looking forward to start watching the previous shows so…

  • I can completely accept that TPTB wanted to go in a different direction with SGU, and frankly I don’t care about it one way or the other. I watched it, didn’t care for it, no big deal.

    But it’s the off-screen comments by various PTB and actors about SGA, SG-1 and the fans that have really turned me off and led to the rather inescapable (if erroneous) conclusion that they don’t really care enough to see the movies made. So I guess, for me it’s adding insult to injury. I’m certain I could tolerate a dismissive attitude toward the old shows if there were movies in the pipeline- but since there aren’t I guess my advice to TPTB regarding the fan base is to think about the first rule of holes. MGM’s financial woes put them in one, but it’s up to them to stop digging.

  • @nana27

    What has CSI,CM,LO,Castle,Medium got to do with SGU? They are nothing like SGU. SGU’s problem is the depressing settings, constant screaming, gigantic plot holes, and most importantly, uninteresting characters.

    If you believe TV show should entertain then explain why is SGU so dark, depressing, negative and everyone seems to hate each other ALL the time. To fill episode after episodes with this stuff, that is not entertainment, that is torture.

    If you don’t understand why people are reacting to SGU, just read the previous comments, it’s already explained in details.

    I think you should tell the actors and writers to stop criticizing and complaining about fans, and fix the show before it is too late.

  • @hawkeye, why are you complaining about her telling that she’s new? Leave her, if she is, good for SGU. When they want this kind of fan, they can have it. They’re selling quality for quantity in my eyes…

    only my humble opinion.

    @vss: almost what happened to me. It’s the attitude towards the fans that make me question the SG franchise.

  • @Siba

    Who are you again? Why are you complaining about everyone complaining?

  • I wasn’t complaining about you, I was complaining about her, sry if you felt attacked, thought it’s clear that we’re in the same camp…
    but why are you complaining about me complaining about some useless complaints?

  • @Kelara
    ” “I will give it another shot in the second half of the first season.” That’s not true fan support, is it?”

    Well said! This is not the kind of solid support from the fans I would like if I was trying to sell a show. Unfortunately this behavior repeatedly scores high on the poles for SGU.

  • At this point the only thing giving me hope for the survival of the Stargate franchise after this trainwreck that is SGU, is all of you fans, no matter what side of the fence you’re on. The fact that everyone is so passionate and cares about the pro’s and con’s of SGU (and Stargate as a whole) gives me hope that the franchise will pull through these difficult times one way or another :)

    Now, let’s just hope in Season 2 things change drastically on board Destiny! Either that, or she crashes into a sun while refueling and we can move on to the next Stargate series/movie ^^

  • OK I will apologize if I hurt anyone feeling, but they were not directed at anyone here really. people were talking about the SGU haters and i responded with how I feel about them and was careful to make sure that I didn’t target anyone specifically because on this site i hadn’t seen anyone that had said anything that was really anything but opinion, I wasn’t any harsher to your comments that most of you have been to the writers and staff that I have worked for in the past. So if anyone was offended it wasn’t my intent to anyone personally but just how I feel about others who judge a show with ridiculous comments that have very little basis in reality.

  • @hawkeye2
    First relax, if they still had edit buttons here I would have gone back and make sure I didn’t use the word “everyone”, I was frustrated and was in a hurry to get it out. besides i thought most would see that I was specifically targeting people that were negative show bashers, and if that isnt you, then why are you offended? I have nothing personal against any of you, and I’m not trying to convince people to like SGU, but I am trying to make “people” realize that they opinion is exclusive to them selves, yes other may share you sentiment but it does not make it fact, and you shouldn’t be trying to ruin it for others. And as far as your last comment goes that is untrue I was responding to the topics about the SGU haters, which is On Topic. Did you read above? Also why should I not be able to make blanket statements like others that are bashing on the writer, Directors, and the people that work very hard for all of you. I have not said anything in a manner that wasn’t in the spirit of the conversation already. But I appreciate your post none the less, and can respect you opinion.
    @Everyone else
    Don’t take offence i will try to watch my grammar from now on, but I like getting conversations going and get to the “real” issues, so if this place is for opinion, which it is…then duck cause I’m not afraid to post it.

  • I admit I was angry and sad when SGA was cancelled. But that was over a year ago. So with some hope I did watch SGU. I watched 3 eps and decided the show was not for me and was going to give up on it. But I thought, hey its SG, maybe I am holding a grudge because of the way SGA was cancelled, so I continued to watch with more of an open mind and the thought, hey this is SG!

    I watched the first 10 eps and I am really sorry – I do not like this show. The story is slow and plodding, the plot is questionable with no direction and the characters are whiney and intolerable. The men are morally bankrupt and the women are cliché’s with little useful development – except it seems for having sex.

    There is the chorus who says the show needs more time to develop, it can get better – but to be fair I have already given this show much more time than I have given other shows. I usually give a show 2-3 eps to hook me – to give me a reason to return. The only reason I watched 10 eps of SGU was because it was SG. So if after ten eps if SGU or any show cannot capture my attention, make me want to see more, make me like the characters, and instill in me a sense of wonder and excitement in both the characters and story then I see no reason to spend my time doing something I don’t enjoy on the off chance it will get better.

    SGU does have fans and I wish them a long and happy run for the show they enjoy. What upsets me is comments that Mr. Smith and well as TPTB have made that blame fans for not liking the show because they “don’t get it “ or it is “too cerebral” or “their expectations were wrong” or are the wrong type of fan. That is petty, childish, unprofessional and short-sighted. It does not help the situation to belittle the people who are criticizing the show. It only gives more reasons to be angry – frankly, are people angry about the show OR are they angry about how they are told something is wrong with them for not liking the show OR are they angry when their favorite show is shot down to make SGU look better?

    And by the way, criticisms of SGU are not limited to fans, but many of the same complaints are echoed in the reviews of mainstream and some well- respected scifi media. The actors and TPTB seem to be quite dismissive of fan criticisms; I think they would at least pay attention to mainstream media’s criticisms.

    SG is a franchise. SG-1 is the foundation that built the franchise, SGA successfully continued the franchise and SGU is the new leg. But they are all part of the same franchise. I don’t know if Mr. Smith understands that. I really don’t think the SG franchise is strong enough to stand on one leg. It still needs the SG fans from SG-1 and SGA. And frankly SG-1 and SGA fans need SGU fans. We don’t have to like everything in the franchise; we don’t have to watch a show if we don’t like it. However, the franchise is more than just one show. If it is to survive it needs the movies, the games, the toys, the mags, the conventions, the DVD sales etc. SG-1 and SGA are still a part of these legs. But sadly those legs of the franchise don’t seem respected nor are they being built upon.

    As a fan I feel as if I am limbo. I tried to like SGU, I don’t. I wait and hope for movies that will likely never come, I wait and hope for a series of books that was promised to replace SGA season 6 but they are not approved yet. Let me tell you, as a fan who is trying to hold to a piece of the franchise, limbo is a very frustrating place to be.

  • Question:
    Do you think it would help the franchise if someone was to buy the right to produce an MMO properly and pick up where CME left off(now apparently they filed for bankruptcy). Do you think video games will help the shows abit? I personally would like to see the game created, as far as structure goes by the fans instead of game developers trying to figure out what the fans like.

  • I don’t think Games would help the franchise. It’s too late, it would have helped when the fandom itself would still be interesting. It would have been fun to play against other fans or compare the results… now, for me, it wouldn’t be more than a game. However, I’d like to see a similar project like “join the fight” that Syfy created for BSG fans. It was more a social networking site with weekly tasks that was turned into a “fight” between humans and cylons. SGU could create smaller teams that would play to reach a certain planet or whatever. Would help both: the show and the fans.

  • @lmaceleighton They released Stargate Resistance and based Stargate Worlds future on its success. To peoples surprise it has been a decent success thus far. There is a fair likelihood that work on the MMO will be continued further down the road.

  • @EdenSG. Thanks for being in my head and putting into words exactly everything I think about this situation. From missing SGA and being bitter over its cancellation, through the reluctant acceptance that SGU wasnt going anywhere but hanging on because of promises of an SGA movie, to those hopes being trampled on everytime someone connected to the franchise confirms the doubts the movie will ever happen. Ladle on the vitriol of BW and the rest of TPTB and the arrogance of their stance… I have never commented on SGU prior to this because of the futility of banging my head for no reason. TPTB have made it clear they don’t care and whinging about it in the forums, while sometimes satisfying and I admit to a little schadenfreude when I see others bashing the show, won’t solve anything. If I could sway ANYONE, it would be those who keep saying ‘I watch it but don’t really care for it, or keep hoping it gets better.’ Until the ratings get so low they can’t spin them no matter what, nothing will change. SGU will be the sole shaky leg the franchise rests on.

  • @lmaceleighton … Question:
    Do you think it would help the franchise if someone was to buy the right to produce an MMO properly and pick up where CME left off(now apparently they filed for bankruptcy). Do you think video games will help the shows abit? I personally would like to see the game created, as far as structure goes by the fans instead of game developers trying to figure out what the fans like.
    I am not a gamer so cannot I specifically answer your question because I don’t know the market. However, in general I think the franchise would be helped if they could fund and get a good game out there. From what I understand this has been something they have been trying to do for years. Because of MGM financial problems they have really, in my opinion, neglected these pieces

    This goes to what I was saying in my post – there are fans who love SG-1 and/or/just SGA and/or/just SGU, those that love getting the DVD’s or buying mags & books or go to the conventions or are gamers or collect toys etc. and those that don’t. These are all pieces of the same franchise pie.

    IMHO if MGM wants the franchise to thrive they cannot neglect these pieces, SG-1 and SGA and the different interests of fans. If they are banking on SGU for a good portion of their franchise profits I think that will be the downfall of the franchise – not because SGU is good or bad – but because it is a new show and a new direction for the franchise. That inherently makes it risky. So I would think a strategy would be to keep the original show fan base interested and happy while you build the new direction of the franchise. Of course with MGM being in virtual bankruptcy they are not in much of a position to do much of anything. I think this and the decisions they have made have painted themselves and the franchise into a corner.

    I don’t think you can have a strong franchise unless you reach out and market to all the different fans. You keep your base market while you reach out in new directions. And to do that you need the SG-1 and SGA fans as well as the SGU fans. Having some fans feeling alienated or left behind is not healthy. And thoughtless comments by actors and TPTB only worsen the situation.

    What could kill the franchise is not SGU but rather MGM financial problems, the failure/inability to produce products for the different facets of the franchise, neglecting the fans of SG-1 & SGA, the disparaging remarks made by TPTB and actors about fans and about SG-1 and SGA, and the infighting this is causing in fandom.

    Sorry, I gave a response for a lot more than what you asked about.

  • @lmaceleighton … Question:
    Do you think it would help the franchise if someone was to buy the right to produce an MMO properly and pick up where CME left off(now apparently they filed for bankruptcy). Do you think video games will help the shows abit? I personally would like to see the game created, as far as structure goes by the fans instead of game developers trying to figure out what the fans like.

    I refuse to play MMO’s, aside from not caring for them, on the principal that I refuse to keep paying for the privilege of continuing to play a game that I’ve already bought.

    Resistance looks like any generic shooter modded to have stargate characters so I wouldn’t waste money on that either.

    If they were to make a solid SG1 or SGA based action/adventure game with a proper single player campaign I might be interested in checking it out.

  • @EdenSG
    That’s what’s known as “diversification”.
    THe whole “three legs” (or four, counting the MMO) of the franchise is exactly what TPTB were touting a year and a half ago. Can you imagine how strong the franchise would be today if they hadn’t allowed two of those legs to turn to sawdust? One wonders if the extra money pumped into SGU- an extra million dollars per episode- wouldn’t have been better spent on the movies instead of kino episodes, CGI and a really big cast of regulars. They went all-in on SGU, instead, and IMHO that gamble has yet to pay off the way it was expected to.

  • @Personbot
    just too add your perspective, and not to talk you into MMOs but it may help to think of MMOs like this:
    1st you buy the Client, the game you buy in the 1st place
    2nd yes there is a monthly fee but not to keep paying for the game, but to pay for server access and for an evolving game…so in essence you pay a monthly fee for an evolving game that grows and grown and grows, much more really than ” paying for the privilege of continuing to play a game that I’ve(You’ve) already bought”
    Regardless of that, what type of games do you play. Being a game developer that wants to make Stargate Games I am wondering what type the fans would like to see, and what they should be about. Anyone who wants to answer that please, I am all ears!

  • @lmaceleighton For me personally Stargate The Alliance would have been perfect. Resistance is actually not bad but would have preferred an FPS with some sort of story attached.

    Anyway I have seen some people blame Brad Wright & various other members of the Stargate Productions team for the cancellation of Atlantis. But in reality they were not the main reason. I quote from BW: “It came as a little bit of a surprise. Honestly, I expected Atlantis to go another year, and then we’d either have another year before Universe started up, or we would just wind up doing a couple of more direct-to-DVD Stargate movies.”

    I agree with Brad there, I fully expected another year of Atlantis aswell but sadly that didn’t happen.

    I am not a new fan to the franchise (Hence where I got my name from) and I have been a fan of all 3 series: SG-1, SGA & SGU. I have been quite vocal in ‘defending’ SGU simply because I like it, see the potential of an amazing series & I am not bittered with hatred over Atlantis.

    All I have ever wanted on here was for us to discuss SGU in a reasonable, tactful & constructive manner but instead SGU has been bashed to high heaven and I aswell as others have been accused of just complaining about people complaining. I am fully for negative opinions but it’s difficult to take some people seriously where they sound reasonable and have well worded points on here but are seriously taking the piss out of it on another site and laughing at posts made by those with conflicting opinions.

    How do these people expect TPTB to take them seriously where all they do is take the piss? Are they simply arguing for the sake of arguing?

    I have posted a simple review of SGU on Stargate Worlds forum here: which I tried to make as balanced as possible, anyone please feel free to dispute anything I said.

  • Its Simple, THE shows characters are ok..but there is no BAD GUY! NO GOULD! NO! Wraith….and because the show was built on the goodies taking on the baddies its all to different. The show is just to LONG and TO SLOW and its only 45 min without ads!. Even if I love the endings! BUT i love the new sound/soundtrack. Its to slow and stargate can still have great character development JUST MAKE IT LIKE LIKE SG1! The fans protect the franchise…if its not broken DONT FIX IT. Keep with it like they should have Atlantis. Still Sg1 had the best Actors HANDS-DOWN. The new universe actors are all LIFE-less in character but 3 of them. You dont need drawn out talking for good character Dev. good actors will always make little scenes feel amazing. Brian J is a boring character. I miss the Atlantis actors…like the Dr and Rodney! what a character.

  • @lmaceleighton
    I’m more into old school RPG’s like earlier Final Fantasy games and Chrono Trigger. I tend to prefer hack n slash games over shooters (not a fan of the Call of Duty types of games) but as long as it has a solid single player mode with a sense of adventure I’m generally open to giving a game a go.

    I’m only a console gamer these days with my Xbox and DS (bought solely for the re-release of Chrono Trigger) and I rarely ever play anything multiplayer. Death matches and the like simply don’t interest me and I hate 360 games that put the majority of their achievements and focus in the multiplayer side of games. I’m still tossing up if AVP is going to be worth it for the single player alone.

  • The ingenious of naming this show stargate Universe was that the Stargate bit of the name will keep the numbers viable for a while anyway. and those and there is a great many who don’t like this show will probably still watch at least a few episodes in the back half of season 1. And from things TPTB have said thats kind of what they want. I know in Mallozzi’s blog he has said things to the effect that TPTB will do the opposite of what fans want at least in terms of characters. And Smith here has a little less directly said that the fans can suck it up. But the comments like that are what cause so much of the rage on the part of people who have been fans of the show for so long. To borrow from a line more or less from Stargate Continuum the arrogance is astounding.

    I mean TPTB do seem to be dead set on defending this show understandably they created it. But if they want the not so constructive name calling to cease maybe they should cut the crap as well. But SGU like or not unless it is fixed in season 2 it will be the iceberg that sank the ship. If SGU goes under the series is probably done regrettably, from what sounds like a dire financial situation at MGM. Though maybe we will get some kind of movie in 7 or 8 years like with what the X files had when that show bit the dust. And from what it sounds like the TPTB are not willing to comprise an inch. I hope it doesn’t get to that point but it does seem as though thats the path we are on.

  • Regarding the Enterprise analogy. I get it, really. I liked the original series, though the cheese factor was pretty high (I wasn’t a fan of Kirk). Loved STNG. Liked the first few seasons of DS9, til the Dominion War – and the B5 parallels… Enjoyed the Voyager characters but had to stop for about a year because the writing stank. Needed someone I trusted to tell me it improved. I watched several eps of Enterprise. Bleh. Liked a few characters. The underused ones. Tried again w/S3 opener. Never watched again. Again, it was the writing.

    I have no reason to think that anything will change for SGU. TPTB were putting out a product I didn’t like for years. I gave SGU a chance. I liked 1 ep out of 7. I described another as “slower than 2001: A Space Odyssey”.
    I despise the stones. And the whiners (had enough of that with McKay – though I even enjoyed that in SGA S1). I like TJ and Greer. And sometimes Eli. Thought I’d like Young. Not any more. The others… :( I gave up on the show before the break and have no intention of giving it more time.

    Lest you think I don’t like complex characters, my faves on B5 were Londo and G’Kar. That I love B5 says I can handle change. Change done well, that is.

  • (repost without linebreaks)


    Constructive criticism implies the show can be fixed, it can’t. Not when those writing the script decided to blame the fans instead of themselves.

    You are the only one on Gateworld that have been specifically ridiculed over the internet, because time and time again, you lay out bogus arguments base on false assumptions and inaccurate data. And when people point out the critical flaws in your arguments, you simply keep quiet for awhile then repeat the same arguments and post it in the first page of a new Gateworld article a week later.

    For example, your last comment is based on the false assumption that we post because we care about what TPTB thinks, but this argument of yours has already been demolished a month ago, and yet here you are, repeating it again hoping people have forgotten about it.

    See the thing is, unlike some people, most of us don’t have a desperate need to be noticed by TPTB. We don’t twist facts and post good words on forums hoping someone from TPTB will notice what a boy scout we are and throw us a bone or two.

    We are posting simply because we are reacting to how pathetic we think SGU is.

    Here is how your argument was demolished last time, I’ll post it here so if next week you want to repeat the same argument, all you have to do is look this up again:

    Again it was using the salty coke analogy.

    If Coca Cola claims their new salty coke is the new and better coke, and they canceled the original coke product line to make it, people around the world will simply keep talking about how bad it is.

    Now the people who is going to talk about it, won’t care who runs Coca Cola, won’t care which chemist developed the formula, won’t care who runs the factory, won’t care who drove the Coca Cola truck, won’t care who owns the stores that sell them.

    They will keep talking about how bad it is simply because the salty coke taste bad. The worse it taste, the stronger the reaction, the harsher the words.

    So when you make false assumptions like [“How do these people expect TPTB to take them seriously”] and base your argument on it, you simply don’t make any sense, and the big picture can be distilled down to 3 facts:

    1. TPBP made it clear they don’t care what the fans think, they believe it’s the fans fault for not “getting” SGU.
    2. When advertisers and other viewers notice the bad press, which will also affect the ratings, they’ll either pull out, or have more leverage to negotiate a cheaper deal.
    3. TPTB and their bosses will take this seriously when they notice the profit decline, not when fans talk nice to them.

    SGU is after all, dictated by business cycles.

    Here is another fact, being a boy scout doesn’t get you anywhere in life, it may satasify some people’s emotional needs, but it’ll never really make any difference.

    And lastly, a reply to your question:

    Using your logic, how can anyone take TPTB seriously when all they do is blame the fans?

  • i really hope this guy is saving his money. this show is beyond unwatchable.

  • @Spaceman XIII But at the end of the day it is simply a TV show. Constantly bashing it without trying to get it to change and/or trying to get the attention of TPTB is just sad and implies that your life is so pathetic that you have nothing better to do then to ridicule a television program.

  • @Tanith: Not all people that are having a problem with SGU itself but with the attitude of TPTB towards the fans. I’m not having a problem with SGU itself, but with the problems it is causing. You might be right with the other points, but this is all about getting the attention of TPTB to finally get a reaction, telling what they think, telling that they still care about the fans and give proof for that.
    This is not meant as an attack, you’re having valid arguments and I respect you for that, but why is it suddenly so ddifficult for TPTB to adress this problem?? It’s probably the worst moment the entire franchise has ever experiencced and yet, they’re ignoring it. That’s not helping!

  • @Tanith

    Btw, if you read carefully you would have realized with enough bad press, things will change automatically due to:

    2. When advertisers and other viewers notice the bad press, which will also affect the ratings, they’ll either pull out, or have more leverage to negotiate a cheaper deal.

    3. TPTB and their bosses will take this seriously when they notice the profit decline, not when fans talk nice to them.

    So bashing SGU over the internet actually will accomplish more than you being a boy scout defending it.

    Just look at the Amazon reviews, how much business did they lose just because of the reviews?

    What we are doing actually is going to change something without direct attention from TPTB, somehow you assumed getting direct attention from TPTB is the only way, when TPTB already made it clear they don’t care what you think.

    By your own definition that makes you more pathetic than those you are trying to judge.

  • “but this is all about getting the attention of TPTB to finally get a reaction, telling what they think, telling that they still care about the fans and give proof for that.”

    True and im for that but Spaceman just said in his previous post that he aswell as other arnt trying to do that and are just bashing it because they like to bash it. I find that to be rather sad.

    @Spaceman XIII Just out of curiosity are the majority of anti SGU people online gamers? have seen the words ‘pwned’, ‘owned’ & ‘noob’ used a lot which are gaming terms.

    “If Coca Cola claims their new salty coke is the new and better coke, and they canceled the original coke product line to make it, people around the world will simply keep talking about how bad it is.”

    I would just switch to Fanta myself, I wouldn’t see the point in constantly complaining about how bad the new Coke was.

  • @Tanith:

    Spaceman’s words were harsh but I see a reason in it. He didn’t exaclty say that he’s bashing it for no reason. Have a lok at point 3 again:

    “3. TPTB and their bosses will take this seriously when they notice the profit decline, not when fans talk nice to them.”

    Unfortunately he might be right with it. We didn’t get a reaction until now. What if they don’t care for a solution? Bashing SGU – my opinion- is a desperate act because there’s nothing coming from TPTB.

    I appreciated a lot that JM asked for our suggestions on his blog, but there needs to come more and clear statements from TPTB. I’m talking about Brad Wright, Robert Cooper, Carl Binder, John Lenic, JM & PM and also about John Smith. Somebody at least.

  • @Tanith

    You haven’t answered my questions:
    1. Using your logic, how can anyone take TPTB seriously when all they do is blame the fans?

    2. If ridiculing a piece of grabage is pathetic then what does that say about the boy scout who spend even more time defending it?

    And now, one more for your reply:

    3. Why would you think people need your understanding to do something?

    And no, you didn’t just “switch to Fanta”, you spent a lot of time defending Coca Cola and the salty Coke.

    The Anti-SGU camp don’t care about the pro-SGU camp. And most pro-SGU camp don’t care about what we do either.

    But you are different, instead of simply stating you like SGU and walk away, you keep trying to control what the Anti-SGU camp should do or say, when really nobody cares what you want.

    TPTB keep spinning SGU, keep ignoring the fans then attack them, but you pretend those didn’t happen, and you wonder why people keep bashing SGU. Dude, don’t play dumb, everyone already knows why.

    And worse, you’re the type that keep looking for moral high grounds when there just isn’t one, and eventually people like me will come along and rip right through your BS.

  • @Spaceman XIII Theres only a few likely outcomes of constant bad press will lead to;

    1. SGU being altered to address some issues that have been raised without completely changing it.

    But to you that can’t happen since “Constructive criticism implies the show can be fixed, it can’t”

    2. The cancellation of SGU

    Now that will either lead to
    I) The end of the franchise (Maybe being rebooted in years to come but there’s no guarantee)
    II) They focus on the Atlantis & SG-1 Movies (Which might still happen regardless when MGM is sold)
    III) Atlantis being brought back (To me this is the most unlikely to happen of the 3)

    On the other hand if SGU was a success as soon as MGM’s financial problems are resolved I would say the likelihood of the movies happening to be a lot higher than if SGU was cancelled.

    @Siba I know what you are trying to accomplish and you and others have been trying to do it well but there are some have taken it to far in there complaints, forgetting that there are those who like the show.

    Just an off-note I would suggest you have a quick glance at the forum of and you will see why I find it difficult to take points made by Spaceman XIII and others on here seriously. In particular look for a topic with your name in the topic title.

    @Spaceman XIII “The Anti-SGU camp don’t care about the pro-SGU camp”

    That much is evident since instead of posting on places where your guaranteed to get noticed by the writers and TPTB such as there blogs you instead post on a fan site.

    “And most pro-SGU camp don’t care about what we do either”

    We wouldn’t be if you didn’t have the ‘in your face’ approach. On Gateworld articles the comments used to be talking about the article themselves, if it was about a particular episode there would be a nice discussion about that episode. Those who want just a normal discussion are forced to go elsewhere now.

  • in my opinion it’s not worth it arguing with Tanith and similar posters. it’s a waste of time. They don’t have a rebuttal to all of the complaints about the show. You can’t put up a defense when so many say the show is slow and boring. They’re trying to distract from the show’s problems and poor reception by lecturing and insulting those who complain.

  • @ JohnnyB

    I’m not a SGA fan. LOL I liked it if it was having a good week, but otherwise it was either cringe-worthy or forgettable. Too many of both the latter and not nearly enough of the former. Imo, naturally.

  • “But at the end of the day it is simply a TV show. Constantly bashing it without trying to get it to change and/or trying to get the attention of TPTB is just sad and implies that your life is so pathetic that you have nothing better to do then to ridicule a television program.”

    I wondered when the “get a life!” post would finally show up. Has anyone come up with a good derisive name for this type of post yet? How much more of a life does someone have if they have the time to post “get a life!” LOL Honestly, it comes across as a self-aggrandizing way of shutting someone else’s argument down by belittling them while not offering anything substantive of their own.

    @Edensg: you are my new prophet! LOL I loved everything you wrote — well said!

  • Mr. Smith probably due to age and propaganda is missing the point. I find the Star Trek comparison very disrespectful and not so profound. The 2009 Star Trek was a bold step but it very carefully payed homage to the legacy and history that it inherited, thus it was ultimately widely accepted by old and new alike. SGU on the other hand may be a bold new step but in very uncertain territory and this is coupled with an extremely rude and ungrateful attitude toward it’s own history and fans. I think this is true both in the way the show has been presented and because the TPTB have disregarded their own legacy. A show that at one time had the attention and commendation of high ranking military and political officials, and fans of all sorts of successful backgrounds now is content to be the “pop bubble gum” show of the moment. This doesn’t mean that SGU has no fans, but whether or not it will for longevity is optimistically dubious at best and for long time or more far sighted fans I think this is very saddening. SGU has some redeeming qualities (Camille Wray – whether you agree with the alternative life style she is bringing or not her talent is a gift to the show, Eli Wallace – is the only character that answers the first question most critiques ask.. why do I care about this person) but as a whole the franchise has sacrificed so much on gambles that have not paid sufficiently and TPTB lack the humility to just say we were wrong sorry.

  • @phronsie we should make a bingo card for all these dismissive posts.

    universe is too smart for you, too real for you, too deep for you, too dramatic for you. you want rubber aliens. you want perfect heroes. you want an action show with big explosions for your simple mind. you don’t like the sex on universe because you’re a prude.

    don’t complain, don’t complain more than I think you should, don’t complain in a way different than I think you should. if you don’t like universe you’re not a real fan and you hate stargate and you want the franchise to fail and you want the people who work on the show to be unemployed and catch the bubonic plague.

  • ok, again.

    @Spaceman: what I posted earlier for you got deleted. You can imagine why. Now let me say it again, a little different: I read the post on that forum Tanith mentioned above and frankly, your post there about me makes the AntiSGU camp look poor. If you have to manipulate people in order to make them support you, that’s nothing more than propaganda.
    1 – if you get paid for your hateposts, don’t waste your time on me, it might not help “your camp”, and
    2 – in case you don’t get paid, look for a more fulfilling hobby.

    thank you for your attention, spacemankey.

  • Darren Sumner

    Moderator Post

    Folks, we are drifting away from the topic of this news story — and dangerously close to the “Treat others with respect” rule. No more personal jabs or bickering, please.

    The topic is Brian’s comments about SGU and viewers. If we can’t keep the thread going straight and within the rules, we’ll have to close it up. Thanks!

  • Well, Brian Smith is right that it is a transition experience for everybody and I feel sorry for the “welcome” the actors are receiving. But it’s not like Star Trek. The thing about ST was that it went against GR’s idea of looking into the future and ST:ENT was set before the time of the other Enterprises. This gave the new show a bad start. It can probably be argued if it was commercialized. In case it was, it didn’t work.

    I’ve nothing against making SG accesible for a broader audience and I was first really enthusiastic about the show. The jocks I know however,are still not interested.

    There’s a sense of ownership, yes. But until now there was nothing really dangerous about it, only something great. The past of this franchise proves it. Stargate worked because of this great fandom. TPowersTB ignoring the fans is destroying it. With power comes responsibility: whatever TPTB is doing, if it’s ignoring its responisibilty, it’ll fail.
    And- as I see it- nobody wants that.

    And to all SGUhaters (do you really call yourself that??), bashing SGU will not bring Atlantis back, neither will it help MGM earning money to make the movies. And finally, we’ll not play SGW if there’s no franchise.

    thank you for your attention.

  • I know the mods have already done a “calm down” post above, but I would like to second it. I hadn’t come back to this “discussion” for a few days and was shocked at how cruel people had gotten towards each other. I don’t mean to preach, honestly. I love a good debate/discussion but the key to a good debate and discussion is to keep it impersonal. When you start poking at individual people it stops being a debate and turns into a grade school argument. If someone says something that pi**es you off, walk away until you can be civil in your response, don’t knee jerk and write the first thing that comes to mind. It usually just winds up making you look like a tool anyways.

    Do I dislike SGU? Yes, with a passion. Do I dislike the people that do like SGU? No, obviously its going to appeal to some people, I’m just not one of them. They are entitled to like it. But, just because they like it doesn’t mean I’m not going to voice my opinion I have that right and that should be respected, I shouldn’t be told that because I don’t like it I’m not an SG fan or that I’m too dim to “get it” or whatever, but on the flip side they should also allowed to voice why they like it without fear of being put down and ridiculed by those of us that don’t.

    Basically what I’m trying to say is, we all have the right to voice our opinions here, be they pro or neg. Just remember that if your getting to emotionally involved its probably time to step away for a bit, come back and reply after you’ve calmed down. It works for me. :)

    *steps off soap box* :P

  • I watched Air pt. 1 and some of pt2 and that’s all. I’m visually-impaired so shakey camera tricks and stuff are annoying. More importantly, at least to me, is I don’t always need shows that all super realistic. A show that’s to unrealistic isn’t good either. This is fiction after all, if we wanted ultra-realistic, we wouldn’t be watching TV

  • @Tan1th


    [[@Spacem4n X111 Theres only a few likely outcomes of constant bad press will lead to;]]

    1. If you don’t have real answers, don’t reply with “@spacem4n”.

    2. I said SGU can’t be fixed unless TPTB stop blaming the fans, READ what is actually posted instead of what you want to see, it saves everyone’s time.


    [[“We wouldn’t be if you didn’t have the ‘in your face’ approach. On Gateworld articles the comments used to be talking about the article themselves, if it was about a particular episode there would be a nice discussion about that episode. Those who want just a normal discussion are forced to go elsewhere now.”]]

    *BZZZZT*, again, flat wrong.

    1. We don’t respond to every Gateworld articles, your argument is again, bogus.

    2. This article is about a statement made by one of the SGU actors, claiming the “fans” doesn’t want to see SG commericalized and is now jealous that their neighbours gets the show and they don’t.

    3. Being part of the “fans”, we responded, and our respond basically surrounds the fact that TPTB is simply in denial of the real problems of SGU, until:

    4. You decided to step in and tell us what you want, how we should act and what we should say, because you believe you have a better solution to the problem and therefore you have more rights than the rest of us (but YOU DON’T,as proven in later arguments you still don’t have answers for).

    5. When faced with well constructed arguments, you don’t have any answers, so you respond by insulting the Anti-SGU camp instead, destroying the moral highground you kept trying to build.

    6. You are part of the problem, I’ve always stayed right on topic, even when you run out of answers and try to derail the discussion by asking questions like [“Just out of curiosity are the majority of anti SGU people online gamers?”], I simply ignored them.

    7. Your so called “In your face” approach was not even directed at you, it was directed towards the problems of the show and the people that caused it. If you took them personally then it is YOUR problem, not ours. No one was talking to you, nobody cares what you want, and you need to learn the concept of boundries and understand each camp has as much right as the other.


    Don’t reply to me again unless you can post something of substances instead of just wanting to post the last words.


  • The main problem, to me, with Biran’s character would be that the character concept might … exist. But: It doesn’t permeate in the show. Again, they *try* to make the character of Scott understood, but the character concept is so horribly convolutet, that it’s almost impossible to grasp it from 8 – 10 12 second flashes across 9 episodes. You can’t expect the regular viewer to read up on character bios, can you? And as a viewer, you really shouldn’t *have* to, just to get half an idea what this guy is all about.

    “he is a strong believer in the command system and sees himself as a leader to those stranded with him.” [From the official MGM SGU- Character bio.]
    Ahem, he is? If you interpret the “strong believer in the command system” as blindly following your way out of line acting commander [at the very beginning, I was really glad they didn’t repeat the “intended commander dies, 2nd in command hast to step up” trope of SGA… but that lastet until we learned more about Young and his cringeworthy antics]. Cobbling together exploration teams (for ship & planets) is not exactly the same as setting up a chain of command and even if *he* sees himself as a leader, I don’t get the impression anyone on Destiny reciprocates the sentiment exactly. So that “strong believe” leaves him stranded in no man’s land, as he is obviously incapable of establishing structure in any way at the moment.

    The last point seems to ring true for the women: I’d like to know where Gateworld got the tidbit about the Scott/James backstory, because there is nothing of it on the official sites.
    I had gotten a feeling that there might have been some prior involvement between the participants of the first, much disputet sex scene, but as a lot else, I’ve never seen it confirmed on screen. And it had potential, as the deliberately “bad acting” of not knowing the Lt.’s name in a scene after the “deed scene” was adorable. Still, afterwards the char suddenly turns around and goes for whiney/clingy/hypocrite Cloe [again, the character, not the actress] in another high stress situation without any mention about James on screen ever again (in any regards to a prior or ongoing relationship/involment with Scott).

    The problem: If he ist indeed deeply catholic *and* wholly indoctrinated military he should be big on procedures. Procedure would suggest you break up with the previous girlfriend before bedding the next, *if* you cared about the previous and/ or the next girlfriend at all. So that leaves some possible conclusions:
    – he’s not been emotionally attached to James (which in turn would put the character towards the “horndog” category).
    – he’s not attached to either woman (which would enhance the “horndog” with “liar” arguments)
    – he’s attached to *both* women (which means he is going to be in deep, later on ;o))
    – he’s handling the James- thing offscreen (which would make misplacing the char in the horndog chategory intentional and criticism of the fact useless)

    Later introducing the “accidental fathering a child as teenager” plot is not helping matters get any clearer. But: If you, as writer/producer/show leave your character that open to interpretation, don’t reprimand people for taking you up on it. Maybe we’re having fun doing that and don’t want to just “wait and see and trust you” till you color the sketch for us all nice and tidy.

    So for me? Lt. Scott character: Case in point for overachieving. Setting up ambiguity and failing to just let it run it’s course but trying to tell people to a) wait and see (and not engage their small brains, what’s coming is more awesome anyway) b) just blindly believe in the good core of everything (not the church, folks). *shrugs*

  • As usual any criticism of SGU ends up with being once again told by those who like the show that we have no right to criticise it. We are either disgruntled SGA fans or we just don’t get this new “mature” show or that we don’t have any lives. I have seen some very well thought out posts here and very valid points but yet the insults and the labels of haters still abound because we seemingly have nothing better to do with our lives.

    I have a very busy life and managed to enjoy 15 years of Stargate without being a geek. There are people from all walks of life Mr Smith who enjoy Stargate and it was rather condensending of you to think that Stargate was only geared towards the geeks and that SGU is now for all the cool guys as well. I’m sick of being labeled a hater and other derogatory names because this new direction of Stargate doesnt appeal to me in any way. We were promised that this new direction would be original and appeal to a much wider audience. A sucessful show was cancelled to put SGU on the air and Tanith that was Brad Wrights decision. A new show was forced upon us because the creators were bored. They really didnt care that fans didnt want a new show and certaintly not at the expense of the show they loved. Stargate has been an institution that highlighted the good in people, team comradarie and exploring the unknown with all the various risks that involved. That is what I loved about Stargate, what I love about Science fiction. I am not interested in hightlighting the darker side of people to the exclusion of all else. I don’t find immature, bickering shallow characters interesting. I find it highly unrealistic that such people would be put in charge of one of the biggest discoveries in mankind.

    The writers took away everything that kept stargate alive for 15 years, yes it needed some teaking, but basic things like good writing, new writing talent, more varied stories, reprecussions to what the characters went through, but it didnt need to be killed off by its own creators and something totally unrecognizable put in its place and then expect fans to be happy with this “transition”. Sorry but I dont see it as any transition, its a complete change and not related enough to the Stargate world and what made Stargate so special. As others have said, if the ptb wanted to do something totally different, then don’t associate it with the Stargate name. Do the show you wanted under a new heading and stop trying to insist it’s still Stargate and all Stargate fans should love it, and if we don’t we are haters or we just don’t get their new vision.

    This is utter nonsence. If SGU continues to be put under the Stargate umbrella I will continue to voice my opinion on how it doesnt resemble stargate at all for me. Maybe I could have embraced this new direction and completely new formula, if it had been done well. But I don’t find it engaging in any way. Why would I continue to watch something to support a franchise that couldnt care less about me or watch something that I have no interest in. The stargate I knew and loved is over and if SGU dies it will be because it just didnt appeal to enough fans, new or old, its as simple as that. If it was a great engaging show people would watch it and Brad Wright and Brian Smith wouldnt need to lecture fans for not watching because it isn’t SGA, or it isn’t the old kind of Stargate. SGU will thrive or nose dive on its own merits,and lecturing fans who don’t like the show won’t achieve anything.

    I have stated why I dislike SGU on enough ocassions now and only entered this discussion because I find Mr Smiths comments quite condensending. He seems to be singing the same tune as Brad Wright. Its nothing to do with them that their show is not being received as well as they hoped, its all these annoying disgruntled fans. Sorry but that’s not the case, if the show appealed people would watch, If they were getting much better ratings I’m sure neither Mr Smith or Mr Wright would care less about a “few” digruntled fans. In fact Mr Wright has already admitted to this. But its not just a few disgruntled fans and its not because SGU is different or the fact it has gone in a new direction, its because it just doesnt appeal to a lot of people and we have seen many of these reasons listed here and in other areas. Well known critics don’t like it, DVD sales are dismal so maybe its time to start putting the blame where it belongs and not on the fans because they won’t lap up anything the ptb dish out.

  • @Spaceman XI

    “1. We don’t respond to every Gateworld articles, your argument is again, bogus.”

    No just the ones remotely connected to SGU, feel free to look back at every “Tonight on SGU” article aswell as the episode review articles and you will see the comments on those articles go way off topic from the episode itself to turn into a similar argument such as this one.

    “When faced with well constructed arguments, you don’t have any answers, so you respond by insulting the Anti-SGU camp instead, destroying the moral highground you kept trying to build.”

    Well constructive arguments?, a lot of comments made by your side of late (especially those afflicted with are more along the lines of well constructive petty insults. Its been a while since your side has been specific and got the points across in a civil manner.

    I even posted a link to an SGU review I did on SGW’s forum in these comments aswell as on your site a while back & invited you lot to dispute any points I made but nobody did.

    Your ‘camp’ has described this as being similar to right & left winged Politics a few times. But in Politics if one side outright insulted the issue at hand countless times then the other side would take offence, that it what is happening here. There is a fine line between insulting the show & insulting the fans who watch it.

  • “Its been a while since your side has been specific and got the points across in a civil manner.”

    See the two posts above yours. See all of the other detailed and well constructed posts in this thread. You focus on the pot bangers but that doesn’t invalidate the many civil posters with specific complaints, it just makes it easier for you to ignore them.

  • @Imitation Tofu Theres like 3 types of people on here: Those who like SGU, those who dislike SGU & those who want it cancelled at any cost. The latter is the most persistence and who my posts are directed at.

    “A new show was forced upon us because the creators were bored”

    Don’t think it was because they were bored, rather that they wished to do something a little different.

    Brad Wright:
    “Oddly enough we pitched Universe a couple of years before we actually thought we were going to end up doing it,” Wright said. “We went to the Syfy Channel with the idea and it appeared to be really well-received, but then a very long time went by without us hearing anything more. At one point we thought, ‘Oh, well, it looks like it’s not going to happen,’ and then we received the series order.”


    To me that sounds like it wasn’t ultimately his decision.

    “This is utter nonsence. If SGU continues to be put under the Stargate umbrella I will continue to voice my opinion on how it doesnt resemble stargate at all for me”

    Would removing the Stargate out of the title really change anything at this point? It has been established that it takes place in the same time-line as the other 2 series.

  • @Tanith
    >>>Theres like 3 types of people on here: Those who like SGU, those who dislike SGU & those who want it cancelled at any cost. The latter is the most persistence and who my posts are directed at.<<<

    You forgot: those who don't want to jump to cunclusions this early (midseason, c'mon!) but want to know if TPTB wants to get rid of them or wants to keep them.

    As you can imagine, I'm one of those. :) Just a confirmation that they don't want the old fans and I'm off. In case they still care, I'm all in. It's on them.

  • Tanith.
    Brad Wright wanted a new show and he did admit being bored with the existing SGA and so did Rob Cooper (I’m sure someone can find links to these interviews). They wanted something totally different, something more character based, (which is laughable as they consistantly ignored pleas for more character based eps on SGA)something darker like BSG and more serialised like the Shield. It wasnt MGM or Scfy Chanel who wanted SGA cancelled, they were quite happy to go for a 6th season of SGA. But MGM ultimately agreed to Brad Wright new idea for the franchise. It was Brad Wright who didnt want to do 2 shows together, he wanted the bigger budget for SGU, so he made a choice, his new show or continue with SGA. It was his decision.

  • Moving back towards the issue of the name of the show Stargate: Universe. I think removing the Stargate from the title would make a big difference for a lot of Stargate fans. Because a lot of fans seem to find calling it Stargate to be a backhand. This show admittedly by everybody is nothing like the other two series. So why call it Stargate? (aside of course from the big ring that sends people to other planets) TPTB could easily stop all the criticism by removing that part of the name because then Stargate fans who don’t like the show would have no reason to complain if the affiliation were dropped.

    But it will not happen so long as the show survives because TPTB are certainly aware that a majority of these people watching are Stargate fans and a lot continue to watch because of the name. The argument could be made that this shows viewer totals have not changed drastically from SGA or SG1 because its the same audience. By leaving the Stargate in the title people who dislike the show feel TPTB have in some way tainted the name Stargate with this show. I think that if the fans who don’t like the show are not going to see any of the afore mentioned changes in any way shape or form or get any continuation on the other two series in any way. Then yes the least TPTB could do is to throw a bone to people against the series and just remove Stargate from the title.

    In reality its the best compromise TPTB don’t want to change anything fans don’t want TPTB to mooch off the name any longer. And if the show really is that damn good then removing the name should not have the slightest effect on the viewership anyway. No? The advertisements can just as easily say ‘Universe’ from the creators of Stargate: SG1 and Stargate: Atlantis

  • The show should not have been named Stargate anything. It’s a soap opera in space propped up by a TV show that was very successful for over a decade. SGU is low budget and designed to soak up the bottom of the bucket. SGU could have been a fabulous new run-off, but it’s doomed by the clueless crew placed on Destiny.

  • “‘Soap opera’ is a blanket way of dismissing any element of a show that involves human problems.”

    That is a quote made by Brian via Twitter.

  • Just speaking from a PR perspective, if Brian keeps dismissing fan criticism as if there aren’t thousands of paragraphs explaining it in depth, then he shouldn’t be surprised when he doesn’t end up with a big fan following out of SGU. I sure wouldn’t pay to see him at a con, given how bitter he seems. I would’ve thought Julliard would give a person a thicker skin.

  • @ Tanith
    That Brian twitter-dismisses it doesn’t make it any less a valid description ;o). Also, “soap opera” is not an insult per se. There are lots of successful ones everywhere in the world, greatly enjoyed by many. It’s just not what’s expected of any “Stargate” Show. Much less with all the self-aggrandizing PR for Universe. Hence the all-round griping.

    [Sidenote: I wonder if he would categorize BSG as soap opera. Cause they sure had heaps of “human problems”.]

    Regarding your review: Do you realize, that you back up most critic’s views on SGU in that? Maybe that’s why noone feels like contesting it.

  • About calling it a ‘Soap Opera’ that really depends on how you define a Soap. I wouldn’t class BSG as a soap opera but more of a sci-fi political/military drama. I have seen people class Lost as a soap opera but most fans would disagree with that assessment. Regarding SGU I certainly wouldn’t call it a soap opera, but to save me the time there’s 42 pages of discussion about it here:

    @cynical1 I think Brian got on quite well with the fans at Chevron 7.4 in the UK, as far as I can tell from the people who went they would say he is a nice bloke.

  • I would respectfully like to say to all of those who have levelled criticism at Stargate Universe. …. Please settle down. You’ve only seen the first half season, and it had to grab as many viewers as it could. If you think it’s weak, give it a chance. Being anti-SGU is not going to help the franchise. As far as I’m concerned the more Stargate the better. If the franchise is going strong, then we may still be able to look forward to new SG-1 and Atlantis content. If you all eagerly anticipate the failure of SGU, then you can almost count on there no longer being any Stargate at all. I understand your criticisms, and the show isn’t perfect, but it seems to be you dislike everything about it because the people are… real.

  • @clbourge: “If you think it’s weak, give it a chance.”

    Why? No, seriously – why? If this was a non-Stargate related show, would you continue watching it if you considered it weak from the start? Why should I watch something that bores/bothers/icks me when I have much more engaging series to watch?

    Usually, I watch the show’s pilot to see if it ~somehow~ catches my interest. When it succeeds, I give it 6 more eps to ~keep~ me interested. But when even the pilot bores me to tears and actully makes me turn it off, why should I come back for more? Sorry, I’m not a masochist.

    And just a side-note. I don’t believe that SG-1 or SGA will return in any form whatsoever. Like ever. SGU is basically IT now. And that means that this franchise is in its live-form dead to me – in the ST terminology: I never watched ST:TOS, I loved ST:TNG but ST:DS9 turned me off for years to come. I might return to SG if another spin-off pops up, until then, bye bye Stargate.

  • I find it amusing that those who like the show are adament its not a soap opera, yet this is exactly how one of the SGU actors referred to it. Lou Diammond Phillips describes it as a “soap opera in space”.

    I agree that SGA/SG1 are things of the past now and I dont believe the ptb ever intended making these movies.

  • @clbourge: “You’ve only seen the first half season”

    To put it into perspective we’ve seen 10 episodes of SGU while Firefly only had a run of 14 and is a cult classic and a regular on various top 10 lists. However, that’s not to say that SGU wont pull up it’s creative socks and receive a more favourable response across the board in the future.

    It really is sweet that Brian’s mom is so involved in her son’s career and managing his PR via the internet, but unfortunately every tv programme or character has dissenters and it’s the nature of the beast that you’re more likely to bump into them on the web. Can you imagine if poor Tiger Wood’s mom was trawling the net seeing what was being written about her son – now THAT would be rough. Sometimes it really is best to turn off the computer as ignorance can be bliss!

    (Note: her post is only for invited readers but with a heading called ‘entitlement’ I’m guessing it’s not too favourable to crtics of the programme. Which is understandable, she’s his Mom!)

  • @tablelamp

    Earlier today her blog wasn’t closed. She had to do it probably because of some hateposts. Don’t really know why, but I myself would have done the same.

    This discussion is probably necessary, but attacking the mother of an actor of the show, where neither the actor nor his mother have produced or written anything would really help nobody, would it?

  • I’m not going to bother reading a response from an actor’s mum of all people, especially after her last mess with the fans. lol.

    “You’ve only seen the first half season, and it had to grab as many viewers as it could. If you think it’s weak, give it a chance.”

    Sg-1 and atlantis had well established fanbases after 10 hours. Why is universe unable to do the same?

    “I understand your criticisms, and the show isn’t perfect, but it seems to be you dislike everything about it because the people are… real.”

    BINGO! I’ve got a BINGO here!

  • Along those lines, I’d like to applaud all of the sg-1, atlantis, and universe actors who have been nothing but professional when dealing with the fans. Jonas, Vala, and Mitchell went through some really horrendous fan backlash. The feud between Sam fans and Daniel fans was also bad. Yet the actors rose above it all, they knew that both high praise and nasty comments came with the territory of such a public career. Kudos to them and their family members. Expecting the internet to only show positive comments about an actor or a character is the very definition of entitlement.

  • She had to do it probably because of some hateposts.

    Or possibly because of various other reasons that are unknown to us – it’s too early to break out the conspiracy theories just yet. This reminds me of Mallozzi’s blog where he told off commentators for attacking the actors, except when people actually examined his blog there were no comments of that nature only criticism of the characters, besides the fact that he would have had to have published the comments and made them public in the first place. It seemed like a lot of misdirection and handwaving in an attempt to silence any and all negative commentary by making it some kind of moral issue. “If you haven’t got anything nice to say…” really doesn’t apply when evaluating fictional content.

    Who is attacking the mother? As far as I’ve seen most of the personal comments have been directed by SGU fans against any and all people who are disatisfied with the show, though I suppose that’s a matter of perspective and there will always be a few immature misfits out there.

    Oh well, as long as people are having fun dividing themselves up into camps and waging pseudo-wars that can never be won all over a tv show, it’s the internet as usual then!

  • well, her last comment on her blog I read was that she’s now moderating it. And that was right after a post that was personally attacking her.

    And here I am, fitting in no camp and still fighting…

  • Was it an individual that was disagreeing with her, or someone running in to say that she smelled funny. Call me cynical but I think the concept of someone ‘attacking’ someone else is becoming pretty broad in it’s definitions these days, mainly in order to create an idea of White Hats vs Black Hats rather than it being a difference of opinion.

    Though then again maybe someone did, but without knowing what was actually said on both sides it’s all a bit of a game of whispers.

  • I don’t remember the exact words and all I’m trying is bringing some light why she might have done it.
    We’ll probably never know what it was, but the assupmtion that it was insulting could be a very close guess.
    And assuming that it was like that, the “attack” was probably bad enough.

  • The blog was restricted to members only to avoid the negative comments that we’re being sent through, where there were some constuctive comments others were just abusive towards the actor, her son – not the show and not the character

    In short, nothing but e-thuggery

  • If the internet has taught me anything it’s to try and avoid second hand accounts and go for the source and actual quotes – scrawling about there’s other people claiming that she was pretty offensive herself in her post, but then it becomes a giant he said/she said hair pulling fest with everyone going bald and potentially no call for it.

  • She wasn’t being attacked when she set her blog comments to moderated. Someone just said they had legitimate reasons for not liking SGU and linked to their own blog post about it. That’s an attack? She set her blog to friends only sometime after that. I’m thinking someone from the show or a saner member of her family told her that comparing SGU “haters” to people on welfare was non-constructive on many levels.

  • Definately no call for it, its unfortunate that the stargate fan community is working so hard to continue this disagreement about SGU, some like it, some dont – surely everything that can be said has been said and no resolution has come to light so isnt it about time we leave eachother alone to either hate or appreciate the show.

    Hell im 26 and my mom would still defend me if something nasty was said or written about me, moms dont stop doing that because we get older, or become actors, or star in TV shows that some people dont like

  • @cynical1 when the blog switched to moderation there were unpleasant personal comments made that never made it through moderation, so you never saw them

    its a moot point however, anybody who owns a blog has the right to remove or restrict access to it if they want to.

  • @cynical
    In fact, I was the person linking to the blog and she replied. I explained my point, she explained hers and we had no argument.
    The problem were later posters. But again, what’s the matter? We’re drifting away from the topic again…

  • I get the feeling that some people are getting more fun out of championing/snarking about the show than they ever got out of watching it, so in a funny way it’s certainly met the mandate of being a great source of entertainment!

    I’m not sure I’d want to bring my mother to work and have her defend me, but as you say it’s natural for a mom to want to be supportive.

  • Definately not fun, in fact becoming more and more irritating each day it carries on

  • If talking about television on the internet and other related pursuits ever becomes something that is no longer enjoyable I always recommend to people to walk away, which is difficult I know, because it is rather habit forming and addictive, but it really isn’t important at the end of the day. Certainly it’s nothing worth pursuing if it isn’t fun. But I am sorry to hear.

  • Hi everyone, I must say that I am seriously disappointed in the level of disagreement and randomness displayed on this site.

    When a subject is brought up for discussion it is generally assumed that those making posts would stick to the main subject and not wander around the issue simply to voice their own dissatisfaction with how they perceive the world or the industry should behave.

    The blog that was mentioned was the voice of someone that, not because of her relationship to the actor, was tired of the negativity abounding regarding SGU, the actors/writers/producers etc. A blog is a source to post what the writer feels, not what everyone else feels it should have been about.

    If you do not like SGU, then please do not watch. If all you can do is spew negativity, find something else to occupy your time. This thread was started with the intention of discussing the views of a talented actor (whether you view him as such or not)about the show he enjoys being a part of. The interview that was conducted was very good and gave his views of the show and where it is going.

    I generally do not come to GateWorld as I get very frustrated with the “hate” atmosphere that I find here. SG1 and SGA are in the past, I enjoyed those shows but they have now run their course. I enjoy the fresh approach that SGU has brought to the franchise and enjoy it very much.

    It is very sad when the “attacks” turn out to be real and they hurt people. Yes, it hurts….however please know that no matter how much is spewed out, SGU is here to stay.

  • Thanks for taking the artifical moral high ground and telling everyone off, it really added a lot.

  • I hope that Darren and the other TPTB of Gateworld read these comments, otherwise when the next SGU article comes along we will be back to square one (Its like a new article = a reset button for the argument to begin again).

    A nice healthy discussion is all well and good but its gotten to the point where if the article relates to SGU then some see it as another opportunity to comment on there general dissatisfaction of SGU (regardless of article content). Its ironic since they claim that Gateworld censors to much while others have left Gateworld because they allow to much.

  • @SGUfanatic Yes, this thread is about the interview. The interview in turn includes Brian Smith defensively telling SGU critics how wrong they are, how they are clinging to the past, are jock-hating neo-trekkies, etc. Then his mom chimes in to call us entitled, soul-sucking losers who remind her of Kentucky welfare families. So yeah, this thread is on topic. If you don’t like GW, don’t come here. SGU is here to stay, so why do you care?

  • well, given the fact that TPTB doesn’t react it plays into the hands of those stating that TPTB don’t care about the “old” fans. It depends on their next statement.

  • @Tanith – though to be fair I do class you as one of the commentators here that has said the same thing multiple times by now, and there wouldn’t be an arguement if people such as yourself didn’t play along; it would just be an exercise in scrolling past opinion pieces. Maybe you enjoy the debate and that’s why you engage in it, but you can’t really then turn around and lambast your ‘opponents’ for merely doing the same thing. Not everyone is going to agree on any topic and it’s a case of learning to handle that disagreement (engage or ignore) not fighting to have that disagreement removed from the internet. Thinking someone is wrong doesn’t mean someone should fight to have them silenced if they’re playing within the preapproved rules of the forum. But the same goes for you, and if you want to spend your time waging a pretend internet war against an imaginary camp of “haters”, have a jolly good time with it! :)

  • @tablelamp You might be right, I have played my part in the arguments and have taken some comments made against SGU a little more seriously than I should have. I fully stand by what I said in my last comment though, better limits need to be put in place so that fans arnt driven away.

    “if you want to spend your time waging a pretend internet war against an imaginary camp of “haters””

    I wouldn’t call them imaginary proves as much. Though I may have gotten a little to involved with those on that site in particular.

  • Good God, people. If I had known the back and forth this was going to create when I wrote it, I would have told Darren I was passing on this story.

    “Artificial moral high ground” or not, SGUfanatic has a point. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. No one is forcing you to.

    I sent an e-mail to Brian’s mom last night. Basically apologizing for the lack of decorum SOME posters have when discussing SGU. And what I told her last night, I will repeat again at the end of this post.

    Working for GateWorld is a volunteer effort, by and large. We write for the site, conduct interviews, moderate the forums, etc. because we love the franchise, not because its a job we make a living at. I personally have spent thousands of dollars on trips to Vancouver and Chicago for cons to provide content for the site that I wouldn’t have otherwise — removing the funds for other vacations elsewhere if I wanted. I’ll never see it again. The blood, sweat and tears that Darren pumped into this site creating it…and that all of us pump in maintaining it…is a thankless task. But we do it because we love the franchise. The writing, the imagination, the fandom, etc.

    I don’t mind SGU. Do I love it the way I loved SG-1 and Atlantis? No. Will I ever? It remains to be seen. As some have said, we’re only 10 episodes in. It can take some series longer to find footing than others. I will go on record here stating that as of this posting, I’m on the fence. Moving off of it will be dependent on where the series goes when it returns in April.

    That said…there was already a massive amount of back and forth snarkiness between factions in the forums when I started working here three years ago. Since then, it has intensified AND spilled occasionally to the news comments…and especially so this past year in regards to SGU. Is it necessary? In terms of freedom of speech, sure. Is it warranted? The honest-to-god dissection and criticism of SGU on its weak points. Yes! The hate-spewing, bile-filled diatribes by those who can’t open their minds to the fact that other opinions can co-exist with their own? No! When those diatribes become personal attacks? Hell no.

    My exact words to Brian’s mom last night?

    “Sherry, I work for GateWorld and I’m proud to call myself a fan of such a wonderful sci-fi franchise. But on days like this…(in regards to the personal attacks, insults and lack of respect being thrown around by SOME members of BOTH sides)…I’m saddened and embarassed too.”

  • @tanith – it’s easy to get caught up in the heat of the internet battle, and god knows I’ve been in the position myself of passionately defending characters or shows, so there’s no judgement. None of us here are in the position of looking down our noses at how someone spends their free time, including myself. Arguing over a show is like a roundabout – it’s fun, it goes nowhere, and if you stay on it too long you can end up dry heaving and wishing you hadn’t eaten the cotton candy.

  • @ tanith
    I used to think that you might be affiliated with the show somehow the way defend SGU every time a new article is posted (you seem to do the same “rest button” too). Now I’m sure you are not. You seem to regularly post about I had never heard that site before I saw you post it and I now notice you reference it a lot. Are you deliberately fanning both sides here?

    Bye the way, I would like to say that thru the entire Stargate franchise I have never thought the actors were lacking in their craft. The actors have always done a fantastic job. When I tune in I’m drawn into the story that they tell and it never crosses my mind that in reality this is just a fancy play in front of a bunch of props. When the the actors are doing good (like they all have) we get hooked and attached to this story like we all are here. Thanks to the actors that take us on these journeys!

  • @Chad well, I’m sorry I even posted the link, just thought it was an interesting response to the article and comments here.
    I didn’t read anything on the blog that personally attacked Brian or his mom, those must not have come through to the comment section.
    But I remember the previous Twitter “situation” that involved Brian and his mom and they are quite sensitive about criticism.
    As I’ve noted before, the people who went to a con where Brian appeared recently said he’s a funny, sweet and somewhat naive guy who evidently comes across light-years better in person than on-line.
    I wish both he and his mom well, but see no end in site to the controversy that surrounds SGU. I hope they can learn to deal with it, or it will drive them bananas.

  • I should clarify…when I talk of lack of respect, insults and attacks…I’m not just talking about Brian’s mom’s blog. I mean here too. Brian’s comments about ownership are dead-on in some respects. It truly IS a double-edged sword. There are certain aspects within Stargate fandom that are just really ugly…and leave the poorest of tastes in your mouth. And they existed LONG before SGU came into existence.

  • Well, with that big a franchise there’s bound to be a few “bad apples”. You can’t acquire a fanbase of several million people and a few more million casual followers and have them all be nice and agreeable all the time (cf. “real people” and look who in you general sphere of influence does not occassionally have less than stellar moments). Moreso, the “darker” and “edgier” the show turns, the more “dark” and “edgy” people they are going to attract. People who can identify with the characters. Did anyone expect the jocks [stereotype!] to go and present a well thought out argument in regards to the show? No, they watch, they decide, they make a statement (like “SGU sucks” or “best thing ever”) and that’s it. It’s a matter of psychology.
    It’s like with the SGU- haters: Don’t like it, don’t watch it (though, to be fair, if you never watch a single EP, how are you supposed to form an opinion?). So if you don’t want the edgier audience, don’t go edgier yourself.

    A little back on topic, regarding the entitlement issue: That’s just really going on from both sides. Fans of the previous shows aren’t entitled to a SGU after their every whim by valor of being “old” franchise fans. And SGU is not entitled to the support of those “old” fans by valor of featuring a ‘gate and the same production team. It is *supposed* to be new and different after all. Now everyone needs to get that through their heads and be civil about it ;o).

  • I’m sorry to hear that his mom was verbally attacked. That’s uncalled for no matter how heated a conversation gets. I can understand her desire to want to defend her son.

    However, if its true she compared non-SGU fans to a bunch people mooching off welfare, then I’m afraid she isn’t going to win many of us over. You can’t ask people to watch your son’s show and insult them in the same breath then expect good results. (for the record, i’ve had the same job for 11 years I can promise you I am not on welfare. ;) ) And you can’t say stuff like that and expect rainbow and butterfly comments either, you’re going to irritate people and they’re going to vocalize it. That being said, attacking her and being rude is unnecessary. You can disagree with her and even address the insult without being rude and cruel about it. Was what she said inappropriate and maybe ill-advised ? Potentially, I can’t really judge the situation myself as I never got to read the article. But it still doesn’t give us the right to be inappropriate and rude ourselves. But in any case she has full right to defend her son she wouldn’t be a good mom if she didn’t. She also has full right to close her blog if she wants. Though I personally don’t see much point in a locked blog, but thats just me.

    I am embarrassed for my fandom right now though. I think it’s giving the over-hyper Supernatural fangirls a run for their money in the insane rabidness ! SPN is a fandom that embarrasses me on a daily basis, I’ve gotten to the point I avoid the blogs and forums for that fandom. I don’t know if you’ve ever come into contact with a pi**ed off SPN fangirl but few people walk away with their limbs still attached…….or their head for that matter. ;)

    Anyways, back on topic. I think its time for the particular fandom to take a step back on both sides, because both sides has had its share of rock throwing, take a deep breath. Remember in the end, no matter how passionate we are about it, this is just a tv show, and in a few years we’re all going to be wondering why this was so important we forgot basic social niceties.

  • He’s on the show, one of the main characters. Of course he will defend the show. To ask someone deeply involved in some project about their opinion, it’ll never be fair or objective, they will always tell you that it’s the best thing under the sun and you just “don’t get it”. The fact that the critics might have a fair point or two never even crosses their mind – because OMG THEIR BABY IS SHINY!!! That’s just how people in general are *shrugs*

  • @katikatnik: true, but not liking the show does not allow these people to insult others this way. They’re acting even better here on gateworld as on their forum. It’s a messy place, not worth reading. It’s full of hate.
    I hadn’t seen their real face before, so sorry that I ever believed I could be part of that camp!

    But what I’m trying to say is, there are not only two camps. The noise the haters produce make other important statements get overheard!

    >>…SGU is not entitled to the support of those “old” fans by valor of featuring a ‘gate and the same production team. It is *supposed* to be new and different after all. Now everyone needs to get that through their heads and be civil about it ;o).<<

    See, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. You can't call something Stargate and then expect the fans to deal with "don't like don't watch". If you call your show "Stargate" the fans, all fans, have certain expectations. Why would you call it Stargate if you want to get rid of the fans? This doesn't make sense to me.

    Not everybody agrees on SGU, but while the haters should be "overread" and ignored, there are many other opinions that have valid points.

  • Stargate is a product, like a pizza. SG1 was cheese pizza. We all liked it. Then the chefs said, let’s make another pizza, we’ll put on anchovies, thus was born SGA. Some peole loved it, others went, blech. Then, chefs decided to ditch cheese and anchovies and make a pepperoni pizza (SGU). While some people liked that topping, others did not. Some just went meh and went to another restaurant, others threw a fit. Some chefs just went ‘meh’ while other chefs got testy.

    So that sorta sums up the change in Stargate shows and fan reaction. This happens with LOTS of tv shows. It’s just more visible with Stargate due to TPTB interaction.

    Fan forums have always been a place to rant and kevetch about what you didn’t like, as well as a place to go “it’s wunderful.” People just need to realize that personal attacks (whether it be on cast or other fan) just makes you look stupid.

    You can be critical without being insulting. Although in some cases, some folks can’t take any criticism, even if it’s constructive (and I’m just talking in general).

    Basically, I just don’t visit a lot of places on the net (GW threads included) if it gets too petty or hostile. Life’s too short.

  • You can still read Brian’s mother’s blog thanks to google cache.

    [Link and quotations removed – Moderator]

    So in short she compares SGU critics with people who get welfare because they don’t want to work and with a married man with two children who cheated on his wife. And comments like “The time they spend with the entitlement mentality is sucking the life out of them. Their misery is palable. Their pitiful attempts to explain and “argue” for their position does nothing but confirm the fact they are incabable of ever being successful.” and “untrained suckers of dreams” are also far from nice.

    Personally I think that ALL comments in this thread from BOTH sides are more respectful and less insulting than her blog entry. She shouldn’t be surprised about negative comments in her blog. If you massively insult many people, including most people on welfare, you really shouldn’t be surprised if people insult you back.

  • Just telling you that that was it for me. I called myself Stargatefan until now but from now on I’m an SG1 fan. The great Stargate wallpaper is replaced with a cool BSG one. There’s more out there, I always knew that but until now I wanted to give back what I got from SG. It probably took me longer then most fans to understand that you can’t beg for giving things back if TPTB don’t want that.

    I’m not mad a TPTB, after all, I’m thankful for 10 years of Stargate in my life. It brought me through some difficult times and brought me further than I had ever imagined to come.

    Maybe our ways cross again, who knows, but until then, farewell.

    “Because it will never come again. For that we can mourn, but for that we should be grateful, because it is the singular quality of this voyage that makes it all the more precious.” Ronald D. Moore

  • Oh my goodness, I am so sorry. I never meant to be hurtful or disrespectful to anybody. Usually only my friends read my blog, and they know me and what I mean. It is always difficult to convey one’s feelings using the written word, unless you are gifted, which I am not! Obviously!
    Honestly I was shocked by the hateful words and insults that came at me the next morning. I was naive about Blog’s, but have sinced learned a valuable lesson.
    I am alway’s the person that can understand other’s points of view. Those that know me realize I would never hurt anyone.
    I feel awful and sincerely hope this will come to an end. I love SGU for many reasons, not just because Brian is in it. I also understand that many have been fans of Stargate for a long time and the changes have been disappointing to them. I have lived long enough to know there are two sides to every story, and just because one person feels one way doesn’t make it right or wrong. Again, it is difficult for me to convey how I feel. But please know I never intended to come accross as mean spirited.
    I am not super sensetive! I have raised 3 son’s, please give me some credit for that! What I am is proud of what my children have done with their lives. Personal attacks towards one’s child will always be hurtful. This does not change when your child is on a TV show. That being said, please know I appreciate each side of any debator’s point of view.
    Again, please do not think I was trying to attack anybody.

  • Generally, debates spark insults and to some extent it should be expected. It may noy be right and god knows at some points during this thread it has been an all out name calling match. But since this series was first brought up people have been against it or for it. And those feelings have clearly amplified as neither side is innocent from TPTB down to people on this website and others like it on not remaining level headed. It certainly would be more constructive if people just made aguements and counter agruements without throwing the words idiot and loser back and forth. And I think everyone would appreciate it that if we stuck to that format rather than the endless insults flying back and forth.

  • It shouldn’t matter whether ones opinion is positive or negative, that opinion should still be repected and there seems to be a lack of that in this discussion. If Mr Smith is going to tell fans how to behave then he should expect that some will disagree with him. This discussion was in response to his comments and it was primarily derailed by fans like Tanith who feel the need in every discussion to attack anyone who has a different opinion to him/her. Tanith, you spend more time telling others to go away and accusing them of bashing whilst at the same time you have no problem with bashing anyone who disagrees with your assesement of SGU.
    Fans are entitled to voice their opinions on how they feel about SGU whether they hate it or love it. It shouldnt matter how strong those opinions are once they are stated in a respectful way. It’s pointless the actors or their mothers getting defensive and upset if someone doesn’t like the character they play, or the show they feature in. It is not personal. If you become an actor you should be able to handle criticism and not take it personally. It’s the same for many professions, some will love your work and others may not and its more prevalent in the acting business because actors put themselves in the spotlight.
    The reason the discussion goes off topic is because too many posters take things too personally and then start to attack and become just as insulting as the posters they are accusing of being insulting, and it becomes a vicious circle. If you don’t like to read about any criticism then maybe its not a good idea to keep coming into threads where you will find some.
    The majority of the posts here have been well thought out and raised valid issues. But yet many have been accused of having no life, and attacking the show merely how of spite, or not being mature enough to understand the new direction, but yet we have some saying they are embarrassed by the fandom and the haters of SGU, why! because they chose to give their honest opinion on what they think of a show. I don’t like SGU and for me the franchise ended with Atlantis. The only reason I entered this discussion was to comment on Mr Smiths condensending attitude to fans and I wished to let him know that I managed to enjoy 15 years of stargate without being a geek and I consider myself fairly cool as well. But as usual the discussion got derailed by some who insist on discussing the fans and how they should or shouldnt feel. But this is an open forum and you are going to get disagreement and different opinions, and passions will be strong because many fans have had an investment in this franchise for 15 years, and I wouldnt say that they are voicing their dislike of SGU out of a sense of entitlement, it’s more to do with a sense of disppointment in my opinion.

    So if fans or actors or their mothers make disbaraging comments then expect to get some backlash. If you don’t wish to hear any negative comments then its probably best not to comment in the first place.

  • @blackhawlk When I said I was embarrassed by the fandom I was not meaning I was embarrassed because of the negative comments about SGU. If you read back further in this thread you will see I am one of the SGU “haters”. (I hate that term but for lack of anything else) No, what I’m embarrassed about is how some of the fans on BOTH sides have lost all sense of, well, common sense and simple respect and courtesy for each other, themselves, and the actors. I’m not saying all fans, obviously some of us are keeping our heads, but to verbally attack his mom is uncalled for, no matter what she said. THAT kind of behavior is what has embarrassed me. The actors are fair game to some degree, though respect still needs to be used, but actors families are off limits in my opinion. They didn’t sign on to be in the public eye. Yes she posted to a blog, but as she stated above, she didn’t realize anybody but her friends would be reading it. How many of us have said things to our friends that we either didn’t mean or wouldn’t say when around the general public? All of us I would imagine.

    Anyways, I’m 110% behind people voicing their opinion be it pro or against, I just want to see it done with respect to others as well as our own ourselves. That has been lacking a lot lately.

    Anyways, going to get off my soap box now. :)

  • I’m trying so hard to really like SGU…Rush is really the only interesting character on there in my opinion but he doesn’t seem to get enough screen time he has the only stargate character traits on the show, he has a sense of exploration and adventure. Everyone else there seems to want to have nothing to do with the stargate. The using the stones idea is used so horribly, I mean seriously the whole swapping bodies back on earth and doing whatever they want this bodies…I mean Everett went and had sex with his wife with someone else’s body…WTF who came up with that? And where the heck are the aliens???? bad guys??? the sci fi??? at least BSG had that much

  • @nickisdabest

    Yeah the stones are horrible, I mean what if someone used someone else body for gay sex and caught something? It’s not that far from what they are doing right now. With lesbians on the show etc.

    It’s an insanely bad idea no matter which way you cut it.

  • Or what if someone used someone’s body for NON-gay sex and caught something?? Oooo!

    I always thought non-consensual sex was pretty awful, whether it was hetero or not, but maybe that “gay” rape is just so particularly icky. Jeez.

  • I thought the stones/ sex scene body swapping thing was pretty funny!! Odd perhaps… but pretty humorous especially when they lost the connection a couple times! Dangerous though for the characters involved, and for the “family oriented” prime time time slot.

  • @ Pot. You should be pleased this comment got through. “what if someone used someone else [sic] body for gay sex and caught something?” … You can get diseases and infections from straight sex too. You can get sick not washing your hands. This looks like thinly veiled homophobia. Aside from that…

    I do agree the stones are a bit overdone. I don’t mind them completely as a plot device. But I personally feel what you dislike about them is what makes them such an excellent philosophical discussion point. What ifs can be great questions to be able to ask. ..

  • You really think the show is going to go there? STD transmitted to someones body while s/he was giving up his/her body for use through the communication stones? Somehow, I don’t quite see that happening, even though creators claim to not want to shy away from moral ambiguity with this show. They don’t even discuss the possibility onscreen and many critics would be appeased (or assuaged at least) by just a believable rendition of such a discussion.
    And did anyone ever notice, that there is never an issue of a woman/man being transferred into a body of the opposit sex? All perfect planning on the use of the stones, eh?
    I’ll sit along with everyone else, though, and wait for the day to happen. You can tell me “I told you so” then (and I will be truly impressed with the show, if the body-swapping-sex-issue ever happens to make it on screen in a *believable* way), but only then ;o).

  • Listen, SGU came on the heels of canceling a show which everyone loved. So you’re already being judged based on what came previously. But, on it’s merit, the show is pretty good; when people aren’t bawling like babies about feelings. I love the sex, and the now and again violence, but SGU is going to catch hell because they canceled SGA to fund it, and even though SCIFI could have kept all two shows, SGU will suffer the fall out.

  • The writers have obviously split the fan base into a few factions with SGU, so I don’t really understand how Brian J. Smith can decide to point fingers at the fans!

    I think the the writers should listen more to the loyalists rather than flipping the finger at every criticism

  • I found his criticism of fans pretty infuriating as it seemed completely off-the-mark by 100 miles, particularly with the Star Trek analogy.

    Always a mistake to criticise consumers for not liking your product when instead you should admit the criticism and move on.

    Sad to see such a great show loose its way so badly.

  • What I hate about new shows like SGU & Caprica is the not-so-subtle increase in GAY SCENES.

    I am straight and I don’t want that in my entertainment. I gave SGU a chance until the episode with the two gay women lovers reuniting.

    That’s it. I’m through with SGU and any future show with openly gay scenes.

    If gays want gay scenes, make a totally gay show and leave straight scenes for straight people to enjoy.

  • I have been trying to give SG:U a chance but my patience is wearing VERY thin! The story is moving too slowly. They are spending too much time developing characters about whom they have not yet convinced me I should care. Knowing this story would be a significant departure from the movies, SG:1 and SG:A, one would think they would at least use the elements that hooked us on these shows to hook us on SG:U. Alas, they have not.
    The only character in the show with any redeeming qualities is Nicholas Rush. The rest, and I do mean ALL of the rest, should be pushed out the nearest airlock as quickly as possible. If the writing does not improve quickly, this show is going to severely damage the Stargate storyline.
    I understand that an essentially derelict ship, with an unwilling crew that cannot control it, is truly fodder for many interesting storylines that plumb the depth of humanity (and Rush’s brilliant insanity). That said, the show is not living up to what should be considered reasonable expectations.
    If the writers, directors, producers, actresses and actors of the show happen to read this, I hope you will take it to heart. Sci-Fi (SyFy) has turned out a lot of completely awful programs; it has also turned out a few programs that were phenomenal beyond my wildest dreams. I want, very much, for SG:U to be one of those phenomenal programs. Time will tell but time is running out for me.

  • “sgu-sucks | March 1 @ 5:20 pm”

    Attempt to make the “SGU sucks” crew look more demented or the crew scooping to new lows? Stay tuned and keep the popcorn in range…

    [Really, whoever you are, that little “hate- gem” is so pathetic it doesn’t even deserve a rebuttal.]

  • “Kelara | March 2 @ 6:51 am”

    [Really, whoever you are, that little “hate- gem” is so pathetic it doesn’t even deserve a rebuttal.]

    Ah, but if that were true you would have never even posted. This is the one subject everyone tries to shy away from because they’re too afraid to speak of it. I’m not.

    Keep the gayness out of sci-fi, or have separate total-gay and regular-straight versions so everyone can choose. That way nobody is “ailen”ated.

    I’m not for gay-bashing, I just don’t want it in my entertainment. End of line.

  • sgu-sucks, I think you have some problems.

    Out of all the bad points in SGU, a couple scenes of mostly-talk (as usual) are hardly significant. By displaying such irrational hatred you are just hurting the many valid criticisms of the show.

  • And some want a more prevalent representation of the reality that homosexuals do make up a percentage of our society; my group of friends includes gay and straight, so why shouldn’t the characters in my tv shows? There are those of us who approve this trend, and others who do not — end of line.

  • I tend to agree that focusing on the “gayness” of SGU when it is a fairly insignificant aspect of the show overall, undermines the arguments about why the show has problems.
    There are gay and straight people in every walk of life, there is no reason they should be ignored or left out of any depiction of humanity.
    I see no difference in saying you don’t want gay people in a show and saying you don’t want black or asian people in a show because they offend you somehow.

  • Wow. People. Seriously…
    It took me three whole evenings to read through all of the comments on this article. Even though I knew it probably wouldn’t be worth it I did it anyway because I thought when there’s as many comments on an article as there are on this one there’s got to be some kick-ass information there. Alas I found mostly the same arguments repeated over and over again, though they were almost all of them very valid. Now after reading all these comments I have to read the actual article again so I can give my two cents on that.

    Okay here we go…
    For some reason I enjoy the vision of lettuce flying through the air towards a curtain.
    “…we’re trying to take what’s great about Stargate and make it accessible to new people.”
    Okay, sounds like a good plan to me, but I must say that so far it doesn’t seem like it’s being implemented very well. I am kinda missing the adventure aspect whilst it doesn’t get much more adventurous as being in the situation the “crew” of Destiny is in. Hoping that feeling will change with the second half of the season.
    “How dare you commercialize what is so special to me! How dare you try and take something that I’ve supported and watched and bought the DVDs and gone to conventions and try and make it something that my next-door neighbor, who’s a jock and who I can’t stand, can get into as well!”
    Come on man, you’re really generalizing here. Besides if I understand the meaning of the term ‘jock’ correctly you shouldn’t ever expect people like that to watch a show that carries the name Stargate. They’d simply make some remark that the word stargate reminds them of an asshole and then think it was very clever of them.
    “There’s a sense of ownership from a lot of fans that’s amazing and rare, but it’s also dangerous…”
    Indeed. There is a sense of ownership among fans. No arguing with that. I can even feel it in myself. But is it dangerous? Why is that? We’re not psychopaths looking to cut someones head off because they’re badmouthing Stargate.
    “If you ask me, he’s had sex with three people his whole life,” Smith said. “We just happened to meet [all his partners] in the show. … It’s just assumed that he can’t keep it in his pants. I think we’ve made it very clear that, with him and Chloe, there’s an emotional attachment.”
    Well oh my god. How can you expect people not to think about your character as some horny dog when the writers put scenes in the show where you are having sex with several women/girls (on seperate occasions I mean) within the span of just a few episodes. Also this so called emotional attachment with the Chloe character is just sickening to me at this point. It would have been much better if your character would have just ‘tapped that ass’ so to speak, or perhaps even tapped both women at the same time. Now that would have made for an interesting (though still completely unnecessary) scene.
    Hmmm… All in all it would have been better if Brian hadn’t opened his mouth to ‘defend’ his series and just followed the way of the writers. But that’s just my humble opinion. At least it got lots of people talking.

  • Ya know, not wanting to see something on screen is not the same as “hatred”. One can dislike an action/lifestyle without saying all those who practice that action/lifestyle must all die. Saying that person has an “irrational hatred” is a bit strong. It’s something that that person does not want to see. End of story. I bet there are some things (probably different things) each one of us would just rather not see.

    It’s a part of why I don’t watch. A small part. If I found more than 1 of 8 stories interesting perhaps I might still be watching. My having no interest in seeing a gay relationship does not mean I’m a homophobe. If you think it does, well… you are wrong. C’est la vie.

  • Considering the way this article went, I’m really interested in seeing what happens when the guy at Show Patrol gets around to posting his interview with Brad Wright.

  • I am a long time Star Trek fan and a Stargate fan, from their beginnings way back when. The original Star Trek series is still my favorite and Enterprise is a close second. The others I can take or leave. On the other hand, Stargate movies, SG-1 AND Atlantis are ALL my favorites.

    But, I just can’t watch SGU anymore. I kept hoping it would improve, but it IS a soap opera in space, not science fiction by any stretch of the imagination. Continuous long range, primarily sexual, communication, please. I agree with other fans that Eli is the best character. Rush is a mad little scientist with a Napoleonic complex and I can do without him. I guess he is there for the controversy, since there is no real enemy. I find the military is no military (weak and no leadership) and every one else has no reason to be there. There is little advanced science and little military and no comic relief, which is what I think makes a show a Stargate show. And what adds insult to injury are the cameos of SG-1 characters on SGU, and having SG1 and SGA actors promote SGU at conventions, saying to give it a chance. SGU was not supported by the fans BEFORE it came out. I’d buy any SG-1 and SGA movies on release day. Buy SGU 1.0, get real.

    As has been said at many conventions and interviews and panels – it is the fans that make a show popular, and its characters/actors popular. And, yes, the shows should be written for the fans. Who brought Dr. Beckett back to SGA? Right, the fans!

    Star Trek is STILL going strong after over 40 years. This is proven by the last theater release, watched on IMAX – WOW. There were some character changes, but still within the original premise. It would have been better if Paul McGillion played Scotty, but still really good. Why has Star Trek lasted so long – the fans. The fans indoctrinate their kids and so on. I did with my son. He has lost interest in Stargate now, too, but is still a big Star Trek fan.

    The fans cannot be ignored.

  • As a whole I do not like SGU. I think the sex scene shocked and offended a lot of us fans, who have been used to mostly UST and tasteful sexual encounters, as opposed to this blatant use of porn to grab younger viewers. Yes, I’m 31–but my younger sister is 18 and she was appalled as well. We have both been fans of SG & SGA for over 8 years. We are extremely disappointed that the SGA movie has been delayed. THAT is our show. However, there are some characters and plots in SGU that do interest me. Lt. Scott and most of his “young” co-stars are not among them. And a word of advice: don’t diss the fans. We’re the reason your character exists in the first place.

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